Colt

This is a response that I gave to another topic. I thought I'd post it here so it would be seen.

-------

"Here's my idea. I'm not sure how much money you have to spend but consider this route. This is what I am persuing because I have recently bought a used rear end from a '98 Camaro and I need calipers and rotors.
I contacted a local speed shop that sells Wilwood brakes and asked them what they could do for me. I also talked directly to Wilwood. This is what they've come up with.

Cast aluminum four piston calipers/ Model Superlite IIA= $131.95 each

12.19 inch diameter rotors= $37.95 each

Aluminum rotor hats (this is the piece that the rotor attaches to and then this piece fits over the studs that hold on the wheel)
= $37.95 each 2 req.

Bolt kit (eight bolts to hold rotor to hat)
= $5.50 each 2 req.

Pads= $58.50 set for rear

Caliper mounting brackets (simple bracket that welds to your axle, you can then mount the caliper to the bracket)=$14 each 2 req.

Total price is $540.40 for the parts listed above. There might be more expenses for brake lines or other small miscellaneous items.

The only problem that I've found with this project is that the caliper mouning brackets are designed for a 3" diameter axle tube. The axle tubes on the rear end I picked up are 2 5/8" diameter. It's very hard to find 2 5/8" dia brackets. I'm looking into some options now.

That's my suggestion. Let me know what you think."



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Tom Milmont
'89 Formula 350
13.2sec@101mph
My Page

clemsparks

iTrader: (1)

It looks like a pretty good idea for a lower cost option than one of the aftermarket bolt on setups. Have you done much design work as to making sure the actual piston area and pressures will work out to actually help your braking? Are the hats and rotors going to work out with stock wheels?

I'm interested in your project. Give me an email and I'd love to follow along or lend a hand (I've got some brake system design experience) as you do this!

Clem
clemsparks@hotmail.com

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Clem
SCCA TransAm Series Race Mechanic/CrewChief
-------------
1983 Z28 with LG4, 5 speed, and (unfortunately) T-tops
1983 Z28, NO T-tops, (unfortunately) Auto Transmission (hopefully not for long)

Colt

Clem

Your email doesn't work.

Colt

BTT

Colt

Here are some pictures from the project...

















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Tom Milmont
'89 Formula 350
13.2sec@101mph
My Page

[This message has been edited by Colt (edited October 09, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Colt (edited October 22, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Colt (edited October 22, 2001).]

ANDYZ28

VERY,VERY cool!!!!!!

Colt

Andy,

I'll have digital pictures of the project up soon. I just had the mounting brackets made at a machine shop. They cost me a total of $90 for the two. I'm having the bolt circle drilled into my rotor hats tomorrow on a CNC mill. The hats were a generic part and had no bolt holes drilled in. This is going to be very cool. I can't wait to get the pictures up. The rotors are unbelievable. 1.25" think rotors are pretty impressive.

Later

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Tom Milmont
'89 Formula 350
13.2sec@101mph
My Page

Scott_92RS

This is cool man. Can you list the places where you got all the parts for those prices? If I were to get a Moser 9", would the setup still work on it as long as it had the right mounting brackets? I am assuming it would. Also, when converting from rear drum to disc, can I keep the same master cylinder? I belive on the 1LE swap, lots of the guys keep the old drum master cylinder. Thanks.

Colt

The axle you're talking about probably has 3" axle tubes. If it does then there are brackets out there that will already fit for about $16 a piece. Call Wilwood, they will give you the location of the closest dealer. They can also recomend a master cylinder if needed. Call Steve from Wilwood at 805 384 4192.



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Tom Milmont
'89 Formula 350
13.2sec@101mph
My Page

Jason M 91Z

Colt,

Looks f-in awesome man! One question though, do those calipers incorporate a parking brake mechanism? I didn't know Wilwood went up to rotors that thick, sounds like a sweet *** setup.

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-Jason M. 1991 Camaro Z28

Colt

Good question. No, this setup does not have a parking brake. I decided to ditch the parking brake. I've NEVER used it. Probably because my car's an automatic. It saves me weight not having the P-brake.

Keep watching for some install pics I'll have up soon.

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Tom Milmont
'89 Formula 350
13.2sec@101mph
My Page

Hunter Motorsports

Hehehehe!
Da rear brakes er goin ta be bigga den da frunt

Unless of course you installed a set of GN3s with 13X1.38" rotors and didnt tell anybody

HEY - now theres an idea for the ultimate front brake setup for ThirdGens (Squeak Squeak - the sound of gears spinning madly in Karl's head )

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Karl Hunter
Hunter Motorsports
Vancouver, B.C. CANADA

Colt

You're right the rears are going to be slightly bigger than the front. But I will be putting 1LE brakes on at the same time. I already have all the parts to do the 1LE swap. I will be able to compensate for the larger rears with the adjustable prop. valve that I bought also.

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Tom Milmont
'89 Formula 350
13.2sec@101mph
My Page

Scott_92RS

Any updates on this?

Colt

Yes,

I installed the calipers and rotors on Saturday night. I will have pictures of the whole project as soon as possible. I just have to get them out of my digital camera and onto my webspace.



------------------
Tom Milmont
'89 Formula 350
13.2sec@101mph
My Page

Colt

Here are pictures from the install on Saturday night. The project has gone just as planned so far. I was surprized how well the mouning brackets fit. Any questions?, I'll be happy to answer.




















------------------
Tom Milmont
'89 Formula 350
13.2sec@101mph
My Page

Colt

Here's the rest of the pics

















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Tom Milmont
'89 Formula 350
13.2sec@101mph
My Page

[This message has been edited by Colt (edited October 22, 2001).]

Scott_92RS

HOLY CRAP! Those rotors are freakin thick! The total cost for those brakes was 500 bucks? I definatley want to do this sooner or later. Good job taking the pics, too.


Here is my list of questions:

1. Are the calipers made out of aluminum, and do they come painted black?

2. Did you run into any snags while installing the caliper brackets?

3. Did all the parts come from Willwood?

4. Do you have part nummers for the items used?

Thanks, and again, awsome job!

Colt

1. Yes, and Yes

2. Zero snags. The brackets are designed for 2 5/8" OD axle tubes.

3. Yes, except for the brackets, 7/16" stainless bolts, and brake fittings.

4. Not on hand right now. The calipers are model SuperliteIIA, and the hats are 2" offset.

The total cost for the project is more than $500. I'm estimating somewhere around 650-700. I will total it up and get the exact.

(Did you notice that is a compressed air line going into the caliper in some of the pictures??)

www.wilwood.com
Go check out the calipers here.

------------------
Tom Milmont
'89 Formula 350
13.2sec@101mph
My Page

[This message has been edited by Colt (edited October 22, 2001).]

Colt

Back to Top

merf23

If you decide to "mass produce" the brackets, you may want to contact "A-A manufacturing" in wisconsin (maybe minnesota?). I have had them manufacture small runs of brackets cheaper than i can fabricate them without any decrease in quality. THey do a really nice job at a inexpensive price. I believe they have a website.

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1984 Z28 (L69) monochrome tangerine orange with IROC decals and hood
1987 IROC wheels with Goodyear GSC's
305 from 87 IROC with 1994 LT1 cam (203/208 .450/.460")
performer intake
Qjet from 73 Olds
dynomax cat-back, gutted cat
no emissions controls --> passed emissions testing
non WC T-5 with 0.73 5th
3.27 nine-bolt

Scott_92RS

I'm gonna email Wilwood on this one, but I'll ask you too. Would these calipers work as well or better than the ones you got? I'm a doofus and I need to have my stuff shiny Here's the link: http://www.wilwood.com/products/calipers/scsh/index.asp


Also, you dont happen to have a list of prices, do you? If not, I'll just find out how much they are from a local supplier. Thanks.


[This message has been edited by Scott_92RS (edited October 24, 2001).]

Colt

Those are very nice calipers. I'm not sure how they compare in performance to the ones I have. I recomend calling Steve from Wilwood. He's a great guy. His phone number is in one of my responses above. Tell him I sent you. He'll know who I am.

Did you find out the diameter of your axle tubes on your car??

------------------
Tom Milmont
'89 Formula 350
13.2sec@101mph
My Page

Eightyninef

nice project. one stupid question
wouldn't it have been easy to find a 10 bolt with the "1LE" 12" rear brakes from a 92 car?

will your wilwoods stop better than the PBR's?

------------------
89 Formula
96 Impala SS

Scott_92RS

No, not yet. I'm waiting to get a Ford 9", which will most likely have 3" tubes, as you stated above. I am in a job transition phase right now, so I gotta settle down before I go making $2000 purchases

TomP

Nice project, Colt! It cost me about $600 to put a 3.73/posi/disc axle (from an '84 trans am) on my car- and the bulk of that cost was rebuilding the rear brake system!

I was wondering about that- was that to hold the caliper "in place" on the rotor? Looks like you have some brake pads in there too...?


------------------
-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l)

Colt

Larry, I had the 12" rotors and PBR calipers on my stock 9 bolt. And they sucked!! Some of that may have been due to the fact they are 11 years old and have never been serviced, except for pads. But who cares. I wanted to do something different and a hell of a lot better than stock.

Tom, yes the compressed air is to hold the caliper on the rotor to keep it centerd and not on an angle. I think I got that idea from Wilwood. It's important that the top of the pads are flush with the outer edge of the rotor.

------------------
Tom Milmont
'89 Formula 350
13.2sec@101mph
My Page

Eightyninef

I like my 89 rear PBR setup.
anyway, I'll buy you 9 bolt if you still have it.

My 9 bolt needs a rebuilt

------------------
89 Formula
96 Impala SS

MichaelRBrumm

Nice work, but I'd add two holes in your mounting brackets so that (in addition to your weld) you can bolt them up to the existing mounting flange. Use highest grade stainless bolts/nuts with large heads and the shortest possible length. And, maybe also add a weld on the outside between your bracket and the flange.

I'm sure you are real confident in your weld, but in comparison with the mounting flange, your bracket is an order of a magnitude weaker. Think leverage... (use the force, Luke!)

Know how a longer wrench allows you to pry apart something that seemed impossible with a slightly shorter one? Well, me thinks that your one-sided extended bracket is going to be pryed right off the axle housing with a good (couple?) quick stops.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

german-motorsport

Nice job on the brakes there!
Below a post we did 31.July ths year!

https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/002471.html

Can you state the part numbers?
We are on a GP for Baer brakes cause we need the emergency sys over here , but for track willwood is cool!
We are looking to get some info on a BIG Wilwood Frontbrake!!!
We have the drag Kit on some cars but some of our road racers want the big thing????



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www.camaro-firebird.de

Colt

Michael,

Thanks for the good input. I've thought that question through pretty extensively. I have weld 360 degrees around the bracket except in a few places were the existing flange wouldn't allow the weld gun to get in there. I may just use your idea with the bolts.

My receipt is not with me. I'll get it and give a part number and price breakdown.

Larry, I'll sell you my 9 bolt, but it needs a rebuild also. The ring and pinion need to be replaced. Let me know.



[This message has been edited by Colt (edited October 26, 2001).]

Eightyninef

please write me off list about the 9bolt.
larryburd@mail.com

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89 Formula
96 Impala SS

Scott_92RS

How could a parking brake be added to this system? I have an auto, but I like having the extra security of a parking brake when I need one. Thanks.

Colt

Contact Stainless Steel Brake Corp. I think they have a parking brake kit that can be added to almost any rear brake system.

------------------
Tom Milmont
'89 Formula 350
13.2sec@101mph
My Page

formul8!!

Tom,

I think I may need your help on this project in the spring!!





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ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

WOW.......

I agree with Michael Brumm. If there were a couple of holes drilled/threaded (?) in there to bolt the plate up to the existing axle flange, that would be almost a direct swap with maybe a little shimming required if the offset wasn't spot on. Also, it would probably eliminate the need to weld the flange on. Food for thought..

I'm gonna have a rearend sitting around soon and I may have another project on my hands.

[This message has been edited by ebmiller88 (edited November 16, 2001).]

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

ttt

Colt, couple of questions: 1. Do you think you will have to shim the caliper or rotor at all and if so where?

2. Did the new bracket sit flush against the stock mounting flange?


[This message has been edited by ebmiller88 (edited November 25, 2001).]

Colt

Currently I haven't installed the rear in the car yet. So I can't give you any info on how it's performing. I will say that I am very confident in my installation though.

To answer your questions:

1. No shims where needed for my install. The reason being is that I used the compressed air to center the caliper on the rotor. Here is how I did the install...

1 Slide the rotor over the wheels studs and then use two or more lug nuts to tighten and hold the rotor.

2 Install the brake pads in the caliper and attach the caliper mounting bracket to the caliper. Also install a compressed air line to the caliper, making sure the air is not on yet. (See picture)


3 Slide the caliper over the rotor and make sure the top edge of the pads are flush with the outer edge of the rotor. ( this is important) Hold the caliper here while someone turs on the compressed air. The air will squeeze the pads together, holding the caliper in place and centering the caliper. Now you can tack weld the bracket to the axle tube.

4 Now you can remove the compressed air and finish welding the bracket to the axle tube.

5 Don't forget to paint the bracket so it doesn't rust. Now you're done!

In response to your last question..

The bracket does not sit flush against the stock flange.

If yoiu have any other questions email me at tomcolt3@home.com

I'll be happy to help.

------------------
Tom Milmont
'89 Formula 350
13.2sec@101mph
My Page

Colt

Thought I'd bring this back from the dead because custom brake projects seem to be popular right now.

After driving with this setup for a while, I can share my experience with these rear brakes.

They are strong as hell!! I'm also running a Wilwood adjustable prop. valve in place of the stock unit. I have to have the prop. valve all the way turned down, otherwise the rears are too strong. I think some of this may be due to the agressive pad compound in the rear compared to the factory street pads in the front. Keep in mind I have the 1LE brakes in front.

ebmiller88

iTrader: (7)

Talk about resurrection.....



Ed

D M N

thats sick, awsome

86IROCNJ

Hey Colt, thanks to the help of Ed, i was able to find this thread. Very informative by the way. So, how are the brakes today? Did you upgrade the fronts anymore or do you still have the 1LEs? Does the adj. prop. valve work for you or are they still too strong? Also, ever compile a list of the part numbers for the swap? A lot of questions i know, but i am looking for an alternative to the stock rear brakes for my Moser rear. Neither Baer or Moser can give me any advise as to what to use! Its a PITA to tell you the truth. Any help you could spare would be great. Thanks-Bryan

CRace46

Here's the rear kit for the 4-th gens from Wilwood with 12.2" rotors- Its going on my 3rd gen next week. I have it next to a 10.5 front rotor for size comparison. Note the internal drum parking brake assembly, 4 piston calipers, and 2 pc rotors.

86IROCNJ

Its a 4th gen kit? And its going on your thirdgen? Let us know if there are any major snags. Do you have a 4th gen rear? A little elaboration would be nice to go with the pic. thanks

Jukka

Does 4 gen rear brakes bolt directly to 3 gen rear end? Is there just minor fabbing or lots of customization involved to this swap?

CRace46

Bolts right to it. They have the same flange bolt pattern on the 4th gens that we have, only a larger wheel bearing so the center backing plated hole is slightly larger opening- no big deal, again bolt pattern is the same. The only thing I have to "fab" if you want to call it that is brake lines and cables. Lokar sells a cable kit that works and Earls has all the parts for an easy brake line adapt.

I do have a 3rd gen 10-bolt rearend w/ stock 10.5" discs, not a 4th gen rearend. Its basically the same as putting 4th gen LS1 brakes on a 3rd gen.

The best part of the wilwood kit is that I have the future option to upgrade caliper size and rotor sylyle & thickness if ever needed. The current rear caliper brackets simply bolt on to the backing plate and a new one could be bought/ or made easily for any different larger racing caliper for more pad surface. These are fine for the street and light track. This rear kit is designed for compatability with Wilwoods "big Brake" front kit on the 4th gens- those cars are about 600-800lbs heavier than me!

I also have Iroc rims, I have already positioned this kit into the rim and checked for clearance- I can run my fingers between the caliper and inner rim- it has that much clearance still.

Jukka

So you say that no custom work is required if you install 4 gen rear brakes to 3 gen, none? I only ask since i want better brakes and if i use non-TüV approved brake system i can't get my car to legal street use. I know that i could make all the brackets by myself or get them done but that would be not TüV approved so i can just forget it

CRace46

No custom work is required for my current factory rear disc 10-bolt axle housing flange. The drum brake rear axle housing flanges need to be altered. Heres the kit that I bought (I bought it through Summit though for $718.00)


http://www.lmperformance.com/776/8.html

I should also note that the offsets are identical- both 3rd and 4th gens are 2.75" offset from axle flange to axle housing flange.

CRace46

sorry, picture too big

CRace46

More info.