tom1985

Hi All,
Getting ready to install rear hatch window, have deck panel off, hinges, do to having to clean up, re-glue and paint metal trim problem, as part of this body work/repaint project-have several install questions, not answered to my comfort by various manuals.
1. should I install the hinges on the glass 1st, and then lower the window on the body and fasten hinge to body nuts from inside car while 2 people holding glass? It seems to me that it may be more difficult to attach and tork the bolts/nuts to the glass while holding the glass/panel at the same time
2. do I need to seal hinge to body, and or hinge to glass bolts for water issues? It appeared that there was a "square washer on the hinge to body studs that I destroyed when sandblasting hinges
3. I know the deck panel and/ or spoiler top and side pieces were not aligned when I removed - off a good amount- Should I install deck panel and then spoiler pieces and line up 1st, then mark somehow where the deck panel nUTS SHOULD GO AND THEM REMOVE AND APPLY ADHESIVES TO SEAL DECK PANEL? or attempt to align after putting adhesives?
I may think of other q's later

Thanks in advance for any assistant, tips, etc anyone can provide, as I am a newbie, but not in age
tom

Bubbajones_ya

1. When I've done it, I had the hinges on the glass first. I thought that was was easier.

2. I have read some people say it's a good idea to seal these. I think I may have put some RTV on the bolts that go into the body, but I honestly don't remember. I did not seal the part around the glass though, only the body.

3. When I did mine, I marked the panel and glass before I even took the hatch off the car in the first place. I measured how much each side was off, then put a piece of tape on the window (outside) where the panel should be aligned. That way, when I had the panel off, I aligned it to the tape I placed. If you already took the hatch off, I would recommend putting the hatch back on in place (doesn't need to be bolted up per say, just enough to be in the proper position to help with alignment) with the deck lid loosely bolted on, then measure where it needs to be and put some tape on the glass for the alignment. Then take it off again, take the deck lid back off, apply the windshield adhesive (making sure the old area is fully cleaned), then align the decklid to the tape marks. I know it kinda sounds like a pain, but I can't think of any other good way to align it well and doing it over because of a misalignment wouldn't be very exciting.

I would wait a day before trying to put the hatch back on while the adhesive is drying. At a bare minimum, you MUST wait at least a day before putting the hood struts back on, or the adhesive may not set properly.

I know when I did mine, I didn't quite put enough adhesive and now my drivers side corner leaks when it rains.... so make sure to put enough adhesive down when you do yours. I may try to cheat and put some clear silicon on the outside near the decklid and see if I can stop that leaking.

tom1985

Thank you for your detailed reply BubbaJ - surprised I did not get more replies as many have had to do this I suspect. I have documented your suggestions and have a few more Q's
1. Is it possible to install the deck panel (Dry) loosely, put on the hatch, align sides of window, tighten hinge/body bolts and prop up the window portion with a box or something and then align and mark the panel with tape and then remove deck panel only, glue and re-install deck panel on window.
2. also,
a) do I need the urethane windshield adhesive only, as my shop manual has that and also a "strip" that you cannot get from GM anymore, and
b) did you just go around the panel perimeter? including the bottom?
C) with how big of a bead
d) the manual also shows a large area in the bottom corners of the panel also should have adhesive, is this needed?
3. I'm thinking this is a 3 man job, at least to put on initially

thanks again for your replies as I DO NOT want to do this again
tom

Bubbajones_ya

1. I suppose it is probably possible that way. I didn't think of doing it that way, but if you have an extra hand or two, it may save the trouble of taking the hatch off again. As long as you can mark the spot the panel needs to be, and apply enough adhesive properly, you should be able to do it that way.

2. I believe the strip goes somewhere on the panel in between the glass. I put that strip back on mine, but when we did my friends, we forgot to put it back on and have had no issues with his. We didn't put enough adhesive on mine and mine slightly leaks even though I have that strip. I made sure to put more adhesive when we did my friends, and even though we forgot the strip, his has no leaks. So I would say if you don't have yours, don't worry, just make sure to apply enough adhesive.

b) I went around the top of the along the glass. Near the corners of the panel, there are two larger pieces globs adhesive with some plastic like tabs. Make sure you put enough adhesive around here. This is where I'm pretty sure I didn't put enough adhesive and have leaks on mine. After those "tabs", you shouldn't need to add adhesive below. I believe that area directs water to the outside of the panels so it runs down the hatch near the taillights.

c) I don't recall exactly what bead size I had. I would do at least 1/4in bead, to maybe 1/2in. You just want to be careful to not have it stick out the other end and show on the glass though if you go too big. However, you can always cut that away if you put too much. If you don't put enough, then you'll have to do it over again.

d) I believe those areas might be those tabs I was talking about (maybe not though I didn't see what the manual said.) Those tabs were kinda near the top corners though, not the very bottom though so I would probably have to see a picture to be sure.

3. For me, I did it both times with only one other person. Three could help, especially if you plan on doing it with the hatch back on the car, but two people could probably still be sufficient!


Let me know if you have any other questions and good luck! I know I don't want to take mine off again to put more adhesive so like I said before, I think I'm going to try clear silicon adhesive that's used on fish tanks and shove it in the seam on the outside of the hatch to stop the leaks on mine. I was trying to be careful not to put too much adhesive on.... but oh well. It doesn't leak until I lift my hatch, so I just have to wait a while after it rains/I wash my car for me to open the trunk.

tom1985

Thanks BubbaJ
a few more Q's for you
1. I broke 1 of those small plastic tabs-any idea where to get 1?
the "strip" you mention- are you referring to the rubber that the glass goes into near the bottom, where those plastic tabs go? if so I have that, I just need to glue 1 piece that came off.
OR, according to my manual (1985 GM shop manual-blue cover) on the top of the panel It shows 2 "strips', 1. Is a Butyl square 5/16 strip that goes near the top pinchweld
and 2. looks like a GM molded strip (can't get from GM) that goes next, below that butyl strip and maybe a little down the sides. Did you not use either and just caulk windshield adhesive up there and around the sides instead? (you can see I am very confused and leary of doing this)

If so, could I just use the butyl strip around the top and sides of the panel to seal it from water? (I bought a 3/8" round bead )could not find square 5/16) -
I don't understand how water could get in, other that at the top or sides of the panel as you seem to note in your #2 b,c and d. above ( the plastic tabs on each side were holding the bottom of the glass at the same level as where the rubber channel is that the glass slides into, as I recall, and alot of windshield adhesive held them in place and was smeared all over and around them a few inches ) I should have take a picture back then
I still need to get the panel painted soon and should be ready to attempt in a week or 2
I much appreciate your help BubbaJ
tom

rusty vango

good news . hawks will have billet hatch hinges available feb of 16. $100 a set

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

IMO, the best way to remove and replace the rear hatch is by using a large cardboard box that is heavy/sturdy enough to support it's weight. I think the last time I used a washing machine or refrigerator box. You basically set the hatch on the box so it is secure and then either remove or attach the hinges.
Also, if the square was knocked off of the bolt, I would try to locate a replacement instead of using what you have. A junk yard or someone parting a car on here may have a set they could sell for cheap.

I didn't use any adhesive at the hinge location, it's been a while but I think the bolts on the glass are on the outside of the waterproof molding(or seal) on the body, and the bolts to the body are protected by the overhang and are also higher than where water might collect. There could be a gasket as well but I never thought of looking. FWIW, it is designed so that water flows down that channel outside of the molding on the body.
For the deck lid sealant I would consider contacting a local glass repair company to see if they have anything they can sell you. I would apply it as stated in the manual as long as it was old enough to have the latest updates. IMO, things like this aren't always intuitive and GM will often have reasons for doing things that most people don't think of, and you also don't want to inadvertently trap water where it doesn't belong. A glass repair tech may also be able to offer advice on this.
I do know that the struts exert a lot of force causing the deck lid to shift downward over time and people often loosen either the deck lid or hinge bolts to try to get it back in place. If yours had previously moved and you think it will again, you could try hedging it a little forward when you reinstall the deck lid. The butyl is flexible and will allow it to move a certain amount. Another reason I believe the deck lid shifts is from the heavier version of the hatch struts which are made for rear hatches with heavier spoilers.

Bubbajones_ya

Hmm, that strip I was talking about is the one that goes around near the glass. With those other strips, I actually think I remember pulling some off that was under the adhesive. I did not put any strips back on and only used windshield adhesive both times I did it.

With those plastic tabs, I don't think you necessarily need them, but you want to make sure you put enough adhesive around where they are. I believe water may be able to seep into the car around those areas if it channels down where the adhesive is laid on top down into those spots.

tom1985

Thanks to both you guys-hopefully get it on, at least dry to mark next week - I'll comment on how it went and any problems I have
tom

Bubbajones_ya

No problem you should put up some pictures when you finish!

tom1985

Hi all,
well, almost 2yrs later and I still don't have the hatch panel on the car! tried to get "free" help with bodywork/paint, didn't work out so well. However, now it is painted and partially done after 3 months sitting in bodyshop with a few days of actual work performed on the car. Now again I am ready to put hatch panel back on the window which is in and aligned as well as possible. I am again aganizing over this as prior floods in trunk make me very concerned with proper sealing of panel.

With this background and knowing I've read every thread and post related to this and have read many times the 1985 camaro shop manual which has detailed instructions and numerous tiny pictures on subject, I still remain puzzled on what to do. the last thing I read was "rear hatch alignment 101" by Duffster which was very good/concise, but said caulk on "same line as prior" which is not available to me, or many of us I suspect.

It would have been nice to see "exactly" how and where the GM sealing procedure was done, but don't have that because the parts needed in the GM manual 1) molded "foam" sealing strip was discontinued and the 2) square 5/16 butyl strip that went right behind it, I also couldn't find, so I bought a 3/8" round roll. Note that the GM procedure /parts had NO windshield adhesive on the TOP of the panel, Just the 1 & 2 part mentioned above.

As my hatch was replaced prior to me buying the car and it was done by a glass company and was absolutely done incorrectly and rusted out the panel and dumped water all inside the trunk over the years, so to make a short story even longer, here are my 1st and critical question and my proposed solution for your scrutiny/expertise.

1. Can I just run the 3/8 butyl strip (smashed a little to get to 5/16") around the top edge and sides of the panel?? It appears that the screws holding the panel, 2 on each side would keep the panel from "moving down" over time as it is attached to the glass, metal frame, and the 8 studs/nuts sandwiching the panel around the glass should hold it from pulling up from the glass.

Thank You all Your thoughts/comments on this will be greatly appreciated, and I will later follow up
tom (1985 camaro "sport" -sorry for LONG post