greenmachine03

I keep being told that some rubbing compound and buffing and this can be fixed and clear coated. I'm using back to black on the louvres.

The car was not clay barred or waxed in the sun. Turns out in 1987 that the Van Nuys plant used water based paints in an aerosol designed paint system and they tended to fade. (C.A.R.B. bs laws in california)

Anyways can it be fixed? or must I repaint? The rear bumper is similar but the rest of the car is pretty good (can tell the difference between the gfx and the body but it isn't horrible)

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calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

Scuff with gray 3m scuff pad, a bit of soapy water, don't scuff through the clear. Then clean with something equivalent to prep-sol, then re-clear. Wetsand new clear, buff. It'll look like new.

blackbmagic

There is no clear on that hood. That's single stage oxidation. That has no connection between Van nuys and water based paint. Thats just single stage 75U paint code. It oxidizes.

What you need to do is take meguiars hand glaze i think #7 and run it on thick and let sit for a few hours to soften up the brittle oxidized paint.

Once let sit...rub off excess.

Now you can start will the buffing process. You will need a high speed DA buffer not that over the counter crap. U need something like the flex, PC dual action random orbital, or similar.

Meguiars is a makes the perfect 2 step product for the paint. M105 & M205. Use these in conjunction with a orange pad and then a white pad.

Go two times over the paint with the 105 and orange pan on high speed. Remove excess with micro fiber.

At this point the paint ill look fresh. You still have another step. You need to cut the paint down finer the finer the finish the less surface area for oxidation to happen again.

Now go two times over with m205. remove excess. The paint will look almost the same but will have a much finer cut on it making it more weather/uv proof.

Now go over the car with a quality sealant wax of your choice to prolong the paint. Sealant waxes should be used on SS finishes to add uv and chemical protection. Klasse makes a great sealer wax.

I am going to tell you right now this is the way to do it. Any other way would be cutting corners of course there are other products available that you can use and will work but these are tried and true. Don't be going to autozone and buying some turtle wax BS compound and a weak *** 20$ buffer thinking it will work. You will get discouraged I promise. To get big man results, you need big man tools and materials.

If you cant do it, bring it to a reputable detailer ask him to machine compound it out. If he doesnt know what the m105/205 combo is or tells you it cant be done bring it somewhere else. I have been doing this for years and I am telling you it can be fixed.


Google m105/205 combo and single stage paint oxidation removal. More than enough info. out there.

calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

All of what you said is wrong, if thats an original paint job on an 87'. 85' was the last year of single stage paint to be used on F-bodies. And I've seen clear haze like that before.

scottmoyer

I also believe the hood can be brought back with the M105/M205. It looks like the hazing will polish up since it has markings where it was touched. I don't believe that to be an '87 hood. If it is, it might have been repainted. That hazing looks to be single stage hazing as blackmagic states.

blackbmagic

You can call me wrong till your blue in the face. I have been professionally detailing and painting for over 10 years. I am not telling you I am never wrong but from my experience that looks like single stage oxidation.

You want to find out..? Use some compound on a white rag and rub it with pressure onto the surface, if the rag shows any red or pink on it that's a single stage paint. If no color its clear.

No compound, you can do the same with 2000g wet sand paper. add some water to the paint start sanding a section then wipe residue off with a white rag if there is color on the rag its SS if not color its bc/cc.

If the paint is a bc/cc you need to take the cc down to the base coat. Which in my experience it is way too time consuming and tedious to take 600g-800g wet sand down to color and re-clear. Most often you will burn through the color coat on edges.

If it is bc/cc the only way to really do it right is to strip/fill/prime/seal/paint

calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

This car was clearcoated from the factory by Honda. The damage is the same, just not at the same level. This car was repaired with 3000 grit pad, a DA, and some soapy water, buffed to a factory shine.

blackbmagic

I have seen some low quality clears haze as well. Not in the same way that single stages do though. Single stages turn white and you can feel it with your hand. Clears milk and you cant generally feel it. Usually clears will separate from the base before any hazing occurs, re clearing over existing clear is a bad idea. You are just decreasing the life of the new coat. They have a life span eventually that bottom layer will separate.

Got any pictures of what it looks like after?

calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

In fact, I do. 3k grit, trizact DA pad, soapy water, malco cut, malco polish, 3m swirl mark remover, wool pad, yellow foam pad, and black foam pad. 2 days worth of buffing alone.
We also took most factory peel out of the rest of the paint, as per owners instructions and wallet.

chazman

iTrader: (4)

Looks like single stage to me too. I'd DEFINITELY try to save it. Are you sure it's an '87?

greenmachine03

yupp checked it in the Vin too. It is a 1987. Could be repainted but looks original. IDK. Thanks for all of the input guys.

blackbmagic

^doesn't mean the hood was never replaced or body parts for that matter.

haps

iTrader: (4)

My dad had a mid 90's S10 that looked exactly like that. Sure you can bring it back, but it'll only last for a while. The paint is failing. Best to repaint it.

blackbmagic

^the paint isnt failing it just hasn't been taken care of.

A little wax every so often goes a long way. Sun and rain go a long way in damaging paint.

haps

iTrader: (4)

If it's the factory paint, it's 25 years old. It's failing or has failed. Save the money otherwise used to doll it up and get it repainted. Don't re-clear it, sand it off and repaint it.

blackbmagic

-_- Its merely a topical problem. The paint has succumbed to air moisture and UV rays creating a chalky white residue. It can be saved I have done it countless time.

Lots of know it all's on this forum though. I will include myself in that statement to be fair.

haps

iTrader: (4)

Glad you did. The trick of course, is to find out which K.I.A. is giving the best advice.

What would you charge to "save" a thirdgen that's in a chalky condition and how long would you tell the customer he can expect it to stay like that?

blackbmagic

Being I have been in the bushiness for over 10 years.

If I had a customer that just wanted that hood corrected I would charge him right around the ball park of 80$-100$. I would give him a 1 year warranty against it coming back. Realistically if he were to wax it every 6 months, it will last indefinitely.

I would charge 400$ for the whole car to be corrected if conditions were like the hood over the entire car.

Fortunately, I can talk with pictures. And not just words.
Here is a car with the same oxidation across the entire surface. This is a single stage paint job 75U from a 1985 irocz




I didnt even use the megs 2 step on this. I washed it, clayed it, washed it again. Used megs#7 to soak overnight. They uses a one stage polishing compound and yellow pad and then 3m perfect it with a black pad to finish. I also removed some of the decals that were separating at this point.



It has been 3 years from that date now and the paint is in even better condition since being 2-steped, and waxed regularly with a blue pad and P21S.

haps

iTrader: (4)

I think I'd take that $400 and get it repainted. Even if it's a Maaco job it would solve the chalking, the lack of paint on the front spoiler, it would repaint the mismatched front bumper cover, all of the chips and scratches you don't see in the pic, and restore the brilliance and depth of color, if were taking the third gen pictured above as an example.

A self-done polishing would bring most of the color back in the short term and is a low cost (website theme of sorts) solution. But repainting it is the surely the smarter long term solution, wouldn't you say BBM?

greenmachine03

I wouldn't take anything to our local maaco... Maybe another one I would. So fixing it seems to be more in the cards. Thanks for all of the help. I'm gonna call around. There are only two spots like that. Hood. and top of rear bumper. The rest is good. I am gonna keep the decals too.

fltche1

Here is what I would recommend. Take a sanding block some 1500 grit sand paper and wetsand the hood. Move up to some 2000 grit and the re-shoot some clear coat and it shoult remove the surface oxidation and bring back the original color.

blackbmagic

Telling you you can do it yourself minus the labor charge it would cost you roughly 200$-250$ in materials.

Idk what maaco job you are getting done for 400$. Don't quote me on prices but I know its double that to repaint without body work, and thats with a SS. Not BC/CC.

Listen I am not saying you can get rid of gouges, chips, and dents by polishing out the paint. I am telling this guy and others what they can do to remove the chalk and bring back the luster.

I make money with paint, I get/keep my customers and customer service by detailing. I am never going to tell someone not to paint their car but when the budget is tight and there is no room for a $3000 paint job then restoring the cars original paint works and it works well.

The method I explained is tried and proven. Lets stop beating around the bush, it works. Don't make excuses, dont post false information, dont post what you think you know.

If the paint and body is good, in no way shape or form is painting the smarter long term solution.

Thats not a bad solution Fltche1. That will work well. The issue with that is its not user friendly, and an amature cant just go out and pickup a paint gun, mix the paint, and shoot it with nice results. An amateur can go to town with an RODA and some m205 and produce the same results as a pro. The trick is in the materials not the experience. I teach customers to do their own thing all the time.

MAC_87

iTrader: (3)

I just used "Color Back" from wal mart ($6 stuff) + a buffer. turned out real nice. if i had been more patient it woulda been damn near perfect but i didnt care seeing as how im getting a different hood. - it removed the oxidation and pinkish color though, and in the end the color/quality looked better than the rest of the car.

DrewsCam

iTrader: (2)

My question would only be what's the condition of the parts? Besides wouldn't you want better paint than the factory. They weren't known for the best paint and still aren't... just saying you could waste time and money or do it right the first time

blackbmagic

^refer to post one. That is the condition of the part.

haps

iTrader: (4)

Please. Everything I posted is accurate and correct. If false info is what you desire, then I'd turn your attention to clearing over a surface prepped with 2000 grit paper and the fact that repainting a car costs $3000 to begin with a few. There isn't anything wrong with polishing a car in the OP's condition, I've done it. However, it's just a low cost alternative that delays the inevitable.

blackbmagic

greenmachine03

Checked out the RPO and it states Base Coat Clear Coat paint upper and lower of 8774 with the black interior 19c. Could be repainted from way back. But doesn't look it. I've looked at all areas for signs (including in door areas for build up or dripping). The rear bumper is like this too. There are too many stock all original parts on this car for it to have been wrecked and have replacement parts.

I'm more open to fixing it and waxing it for the time being. Where should I start looking for a detailer/paint place that can do this service? I'm in Dayton Ohio. The only detailers I know of that are good don't do it. I checked. Any other ideas?

greenmachine03

Oh, and it is an 81U paint code car...

Damon23

Dont have a cheap paint job put on it. blackbmagic has some excellent advice. If I were you I'd find a pro with the tools, pads and compounds. If you have to spend $400 you'll be far better off than a $400 paint job. The red on my 92 was not chaulky, it was cloudy. I was told the clear had sunk in. I spent a day with some 2000 grit and then used 3M perfect it compound and some meguires #7 followed by meguires wax to protect it. It looks a ton better but I'm scared to take it out too much. I have 3 thin coats of wax on it now. Get the paint corrected and then maintain it. You'll be shocked how good the factory paint can look with a little elbow grease. Look up http://www.autopiaforums.com/forums/ they have some good tips and advice.