Buggy Disaster

iTrader: (1)

Hey, Im new here. Friday I bought a 1991 Z28 305 Camaro. I love the car. I want to make it more aggressive looking, but I am on a High School budget.

I want new wheels, prefferably stock size, so that I can use the new tires on the car. Any opinions on what to get? Links?

Also how much are my wheels worth? They are in great condition and the tires are pretty new.

Are these valve covers any good? I know aftermarket cheap covers can cause problems on AC Volkswagens (previous car).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Small-Block-...b730fe&vxp=mtr

Thanks

My Car

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

whats wrong with your current vale covers? and lowering springs, black headlight buckets and some different rims and your golden

haps

iTrader: (4)

I vote for leaving it the way it is. Save your money for gas. It looks great.

lb9 GTA

Beautiful car. Wish I had something half as nice when i was in high school. Those valve covers won't work on your engine. You need '87 and up SBC "center bolt" valve covers. To make it more aggessive looking all i'd do is performance muffler and custom tips, clear marker lights, a light tint on the windows, and, if you can find light smoke lens film, I'd put that on the tail lights. But it doesn't really need anything. Wheels all depend on what you like. I kinda perfer those wheels polished over stock sized aftermarket wheel, but that's just me.

Damon23

Wow, I almost fell out of my chair. When I was in high school I drove a dark red 79 Z28. A friend of mines dad owned a chevy dealership. We would go down, hang out and one day I saw a car identical to that. Same color combo. I was in love. I bought a 4x4 from that dealership and again sat in a car just like yours. I was hooked. I myself just bought a 92 Heritage. Red with black stripes. I could'nt find a dark red like yours but the point to my rambling is these cars looked aggressive out of the box. I'd do the black headlight buckets and maybe drop the car a little. I have not seen a 16 inch wheel that was worth the money in my opinion especially on a budget. A more aggressive exhaust and stance would set that car off. Congrats on the purchase. Save your money for audio and gas.

Looks like we might be running the same tire. Kuhmos ectas?

ZZ3 Z28

Just lower the car an inch, that'll do you pretty good.

Can I be real honest with ya" It isn't just your Camaro, it's all 1991 Camaros with that hideous rear spoiler. That thing is simply aweful. But that's just me.

lonestar7

iTrader: (1)

I agree, you've got a nice original car and I wouldn't mess with it too much. There must be hundreds of different 16" wheels available for your car, but I've yet to see any that look much better than the original and most look a lot worse than the originals to me. I've seen some 17"and 18" IROC wheels that look pretty good and work well with the proportions of the car.
If you just have to have different wheels, I'd keep the originals. You may get tired of the aftermarket ones quicker than you think. And down the line when you want sell the car it will make it easier to sell to people looking for original cars.
Which brings me to another point. When you start "customizing" a car, for every 1 person that likes what you did, you'll have 4 or 5 that don't like it.
Try to avoid doing things that are irreversible and keep the original parts if possible.

cdoyle

I would get the headlight buckets and the blisters painted black. I did that on mine and it really gave it a mean/aggressive look.



I have a few more pictures here:

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

The ONLY 16 INCH WHEELS I would ever consider putting on that car are 85-87 16 inch IROC wheels. Anything else is definitely a step down. What you have is what looks best on the car as far as 16 inch wheels go.

You need to lower the car. 1 inch, no more. A better stance will make a HUGE difference to the aggressiveness of hte car. I'd tell you to lower it more but you wont be able to afford the suspension tweaks necessary to do that, like shocks/struts/LCARBs/adjustable panhard bar/ adjustable torque arm etc.

If you WERE to replace the wheels, dont waste time with 16's, get some 17 inch ZR1 wheels.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RX8X5AJao6Y


You've got one of the best looking Camaro models ever made, (the wing can be a bit divisive, but I've grown to like it) and it appears mostly stock. Please keep it that way. I would, however, recommend ditching the grille insert with that ugly bowtie on it and replace it with the factory black/red bowtie Z28 grille insert.

http://www.hawksthirdgenparts.com/ca...ez28black.aspx

This is a picture of mine:

Buggy Disaster

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for all the replies and comments. After reading all of the above, I think I might buy a set of junkyard IROC wheels and polish them, then use my current tires, and hold on to the stock wheels. Or maybe just polish the lip/rim of my wheels. I think I will invest my money on my audio syetem. I do want the car to stay mostly original.

How can I go about lowering the car about 1"?

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Are you mechanically inclined? Do you know you way around a wrench? Have access to air tools or an angle grinder? Jacks and jackstands?

If not, you may be better off leaving it alone. You could buy an Eibach Pro Kit set of lowering springs and pay a shop to install them.

ghost91

give it some pinstriping and paint some parts black, like maybe the headlight bays. theres just too much red. looks in good condition though. i wouldnt go crazy, original is always better especially with the rims

Buggy Disaster

iTrader: (1)

Im very mechanically inclined. Over the summer I built a Sand Rail from ground up, so I do have an aircompressor, impacts, grinders, etc. . .



As of now I'm looking at the Eibach Pro Kit, and then the stock black bowtie to break up all the red, then polishing some older Iroc wheels. That way I get my aggressive look, and then I can still convert the car back to original later down the road.

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

and black headlight buckets

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Not what I expected from a high school kid, I seriously underestimated you! I now feel a lot better about you having such a relatively rare model. Take a gander at the production numbers on those 91-92 Z28s. There really arent many of them. I really wish I had that kind of mechanical know how when I was that age 10 years ago. Ive had to learn on my own, sometimes the hard way...

Anyway, if you arent afraid to get your hands greasy, get some good struts. Konis will be an investment that will outlast the car. Koni Sport Adjustables/Yellows. Not cheap, but one of the best off the shelf shocks on the market. They can handle the increased spring rates and altered travel range. If you cant/wont do that, get some Tokicos or KYBs. They wont last forever or be as good, but they will fare a LOT better than any factory or factory replacement shock/strut.

Beyond that, just cut half a coil off your front springs, 1/4 coil off your rear springs, and replace the rear spring isolator with rubber hose around the top coil. This will get you about an inch on both ends of the car on average. Very mild drop, ride quality isnt affected too much, the better your shocks the better this will be. The key is just to go slow cutting the springs. Cutting springs is only safe if you dont overheat the metal. An inch is about as far as you can go and keep the spring rates balanced. The rear springs are progressive rate and their spring rate increases VERY quickly when you cut them. An inch in the front and rear is as far as you can go and still keep the car level AND the spring rates balanced, and that's only possible because you remove the rear spring isolator up top which gets you a free half inch of drop.

Beware, going farther than an inch throws off a lot of the factory suspension settings. You will need rear lower control arm relocation brackets, adj torque arm, adj panhard bar, camber plates/after market strut mounts to keep the geometry in the front correct... etc etc etc.

But with only an inch of drop, you'll find that most things still work about as they should. It's about as far as you can easily go, and in my opinion buying lowering springs for 1 inch or less drop is silly if you have the tools to cut your own. Just cut what you have. Beyond that lowering springs are a must.

The only tricky part of the whole process is getting the front springs back in the car. I use a crowbar as a compressor lever against the drooping a arm. I torque it upwards to compress the spring, and then use my feet to slide it down the crowbar and into the spring pocket and pull out the crowbar. It's a lot easier than fooling around with spring compressors. After that have a buddy with a jack to start compressing the spring and get it buttoned up again.

While you're at it you may want to replace your ball joints, bushings, or do a brake upgrade (I just pieced together everything I needed to run 98-02 F-body brakes for around $275 with shipping). If not that's fine.

ZZ3 Z28

What InfernalVortex said is a very good description of a proper way to lower the car without screwing it up. Any one who is looking to lower thier car should follow his narrative closely. Slamming is one thing but lowering to get a good looking stance is another.

The only thing I would add is when I lowered mine I got an alignment to check things out. The front camber was adjusted about two degrees from spec to get the front tires vertical. I haven't installed lower control arm relocation brackets yet but that is on the list, too.

ZF6camaroZZ4

Been thru a few different brands of springs over the years, settled on Global West suspension's road racing springs.
If you do bushing's, Global West Del-A-Lum's are the best for the front. And Hemi joints are a must for the rear. Just look at how the suspension moves, you can see how other type bushings just bind up.
Bilstein struts and shocks are the best out there. Besides being life time warranty... The front struts have an extra large sleeve over the piston to take up all the side loads.

Be careful lowering the car with crappy springs & shocks. Theres not much suspension travel on these cars. Hitting the bump stops is a good way of loosing control of the car.

Adrenaline1

iTrader: (1)

If you take your time and look around for the right parts lowering your car is pretty straight forward and easy to do. I was originally going to go with just some drop springs, LCARB, and adjustable panhard bar but found some drop spindles at a good price which doesnt mess with the geometry like just using lowering springs will. It will cost a bit more but im is worth it.

NowhereFast

Good to see your thinking about the future and not making the car look tacky, unlike most kids.

That's a real gem you got there.

85_ZED28

Black headlight buckets

tylercamaro

iTrader: (1)

i mentioned it twice seems like no one is listening

Buggy Disaster

iTrader: (1)

Haha, I am listening to the black head light buckets. I just dont want to screw up the paint. I dont know if my painting skills are up to the job, I wonder how much someone with good experience would charge. I'm now thinking it would look great with the black buckets, black bowtie, polished Irocs, and lowered about an 1". Were the black buckets ever an original paint scheme?

Thanks for all the suspension1 info Infernal Vortex, zF6camaro, Adrenaline1, ZZ3 Z28. Im going to refer back to this thread when I lower it.

And thanks Nick, I've seen my fair share of hideous teenage ricers.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Black headlight buckets are a Z28 thing. All Z28s (and IROCs from 85-90) from 82-92 got black headlight buckets. It's semi-gloss black. I would be leery of doing it myself over that gorgeous paint. The black grille insert will help al ot with that. It will look better with the black buckets, but as it is I wouldnt bother unless you pay someone to do it professionally. Like I said, black headlight buckets are factory and are the way the car should look, which is a big part of the reason people keep recommending it.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I just found this in the lowered/slammed camaros thread, and I think it's a good illustration to you how big of a difference ride height makes, especially since this car is nearly identical to yours from the side.

406ci91rs

honestly there is nothing wrong with the car at all....im in high school to so i know what your saying ....here is what i am going to do. get some aftermarket wheels, a cheap 2 in cowl hood and install hood pins, lower it an inch, and get flowmaster 40 series exhaust and your set...all together about 2k....well worth it!!

thebuffalo

If you ever plan on doing an engine swap, don't lower the car yet, wait until after you do the swap. I lowered my car with my stock 305 in it and it looked really good, swapped to a 350 and my front end came up from all the weight loss...



See how low the back is compared to the front lol? It sucks ..

You should tint those windows though, otherwise the car looks great. Even those stock rims look really good. Don't do the headlight buckets black, your paint is so nice. The black grille insert would look good though. Maybe some smoked/clearcoated tails, do not forget the clearcoat.

Don't EVER buy parts for that car off ebay, ebay parts are cheap chinese metal and are not worth the $30 difference from REAL parts.

If you want subs in the car and good speakers, Replace the back 6x9's and put a 10" sub or a 12", you only need 1 with the hatchback, it makes a system sound sooo much better than it should. I had a Kicker CVT10 with an angled sealed box on a 350w amp in the trunk and it was louder than my buddies 2 12"'s in his altima.

white1991rs

If your in high school this is probably your daily driver so I don't recommend lowering it, the front will scrape as it is so any lower and its more likely to get damaged and more severely. First thing I did to my thirdgen was go through the exhaust from the motor back then I started re-enforcing the car with subframe connectors, steering brace and strut tower brace so on...(personally I think its better to spend your money on performance than aesthetics) but I WOULD NOT spend the money on new 16 inch rims if I were you, I think you'd be better off saving your money and buying larger wheels and tires. Blackout your buckets maybe some quality tints/ tail light covers and you could remove the bumpers from your doors. An exhaust cut out would make your car sound sick too, I'm actually selling a stainless steel dump right now if your interested.

Just my opinion I'm in high school with a thirdgen also so were in a similar situation.

gscz28

iTrader: (2)

springs are cheep...I lowered mine and have not any issues for 4 years now.

I cut mine with an angle grinder 1 full coil...it lowered the 2 1/2 and the front 3"

If I had to do it over again...I would do 1/2 coil on front...didn't account for engine weight...but as I said...I haven't had any issues...just gotta take slower in certain areas or drive in at an angle ....)

before and after

white1991rs

That's crazy within the first month of owning my thirdgen I accidentally ripped the muffler off just taking a bump in the road too fast. Thats at stock height and its not like its a janky car and it was coming off anyway theres not a spec of rust anywhere

TraviZ

iTrader: (2)

Skipping all these posts except the first one, I say 17-18" wheels, drop it a bit, tint the **** outta the windows, black headlight buckets. you are set.

MAC_87

iTrader: (3)

Tal strip those 91/92 Z/28 rims, Primer & paint the centers black, and leave the lips aluminum, and clear coat em. (Idk what powder coating is or i might suggest that instead) but this is the route id take...it'll make a significant difference in the look of your car. Imo, they should have come stock this way, or at least had the option to.

gscz28

iTrader: (2)

white91....these michigan roads do suck

you guys have great ideas...but lets remember high school student....no money
konies, and all these suspension parts are not cheap by any means.

old school has been done for decades, and people will contiinue to cut springs to lower a car.
blacked out head light buckets are for IROC's...don't pretend.

just my .02 worth

MAC_87

iTrader: (3)

In my opinion the thirdgens look stupid Without the blackout head light buckets. and as far as i can tell it was carried on throughout the third gen camaro 82-92, depending on the trim.

He mentioned wanting iroc rims too, (Altho i still suggest painting the z28 rims) so why not let him "pretend"? its his car. not yours. You probably think the bandit mask on my Iroc looks stupid too, but honestly idgaf; cuz ultimately its my car and it makes me happy to have it.

MAC_87

iTrader: (3)

I'm honestly so sick of people saying "you cant do this, you cant do that, cuz its not stock". Most of them are such hypocrites, with their aftermarket rims, engines, stickers..etc. lol. its ridiculous.

Id absolutely hate to discuss 5th gen camaros with these type of people.. theres almost no 5th gen thats 100% stock..people are customizing the crap outta those things.

white1991rs

People tell me the same kinda stuff dude my bro thought it was stupid to change anything from stock but if your going to own the car for a long time you might as well

thebuffalo

Yours looks good with the bandit mask.

The 5th gens get customized so much because EVERYONE has one, like seriously I see more of them than any other car. It's cause you can get them from $15,000-$200,000. Thats a versatile price range!

white1991rs

I dont understand the 5th gen craze you could have such nice a 3rd gen with that kinda cash, and our cars look better in my opinion

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

For the love of god do not paint your wheels black. The rough machined surface and large center cap of the 91-92 16's makes them look AWFUL when painted. Dont go hacking your car apart for goofy cowl hoods and tacky chrome wheels. That car is a VERY well-kept classy, stock car. If you mod it, keep it classy. Dont put any drag race trailer park stuff on it. No giant cowls, no hood pins, no cheesy cragars. Just don't. If you get that thing turning 11 second quarter miles, go for it. It's stock, leave it looking stock.

That car is a perfect example of a car that needs to be left alone. I've been messing with mine and I feel bad about some of the stuff I've done (and reverted back) and it was just a high mileage base model RS with no options. You can do blacked out wheels and cowls and keep it nice, but doing it on a car like yours is a travesty. It's only stock once. Some guys that do all the cobbling up of their cars speak from experience. I dont have any regrets about my car, but I would NEVER have done some of the stuff I did if it was a higher end model, especially not a relatively rare 91-92 Z28. Look at the production numbers on those things compared to the 82-90 cars. VERY low.


Black headlight buckets were factory standard on ANY Z/28. Just to prove my point (although my post earlier of clearly stock thirdgens from 82-92 should have proved it)

85 Z28 (NOT AN IROC) with factory paint (belongs to coolmarocrzy)

Coyote850

iTrader: (1)

I've had my '83 Z-28 for 20+ years now, bought it when I was 23. Take some advice from a long time Z-28 owner. Keep it as stock as you can. Take care of it. If you have bad winters, store it. Never let it see snow/salt. That car will last you a lifetime if you take care of it and you won't regret it.

haps

iTrader: (4)

Excellent advice.

ghost91

Im just confused with alot of things on your car, if its a z28 that is stock.. ive never seen one without black headlight buckets or a black grille insert. those are the two things i would do first. dont paint your rims....that wont make it agressive at all, just dumb. ive seen a few where they take the rims and chrome them and they come out great. just a suggestion.

MAC_87

iTrader: (3)

.

ghost91

[quote=MAC_87;5222179]ah, well. Thanks for letting me know my rims looked dumb! i was unaware that your opinion was the only one that mattered in this world!

isnt that what he wanted though...opinions. i gave it to him. i never said yours look dumb though and he hasnt replied to his thread in a while so he must not like our opinions

MAC_87

iTrader: (3)

ugh i was snappy lol my bad. >.< super tired and cranky atm.

TransamGTA350

iTrader: (2)

That's a beautiful car. I also vote for the blacked out headlight buckets and the factory black grille insert with the red outline bowtie. It will give it an aggressive look from the front and that's easy stuff to do on a high school budget. It will look mean, just like it did from the factory. Maybe some light window tints (make sure all of the defroster grid lines work first and fix any bad ones before they get sealed in forever). Leave the rest of the body and the wheels the way they are.

If you want to get into some other stuff and have a little bit of extra cash, subframe connectors, lowering springs and shocks/struts would be next. Do the subframe connectors first since the extra stiffness of the springs will flex the body more, especially with T-Tops. For springs, I like the Eibach pro kit (1" drop) and match that with a set of Bilstein shocks/struts. Also, if you want the stance to have a nice rake to the front, swap the rear coil spring isolators with 4th gen versions when you do the springs. They are 1" thicker than the 3rd gen version, so with a 1" drop spring, the rear ride height stays the same, but you get the higher rate springs for handling.

Just enjoy the car, keep the mods simple and don't break the bank.

Buggy Disaster

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for all the input. I have read every single post and have valued each opinion. As for those concerned about me hacking the car up, Im not and never plan on it. I've wanted this car for a long time. After driving the car as is for a while, listening to opinions, and according to my budget, here are my plans for the car.

Polished/Chrome C5 Corvette wheels
Light window tint
Black bowtie
Eibach pro kit to lower 1"
Black headlight buckets

That leaves me with an agressive look and mostly stock appearance. And it can still be coverted back to stock, even though I plan on holding on to it for a long time.
The previous owner had the car painted, so I'm assuming they painted over the head light buckets and bowtie.

white1991rs

Keep it a sleeper. It looks nice so it doesn't really need anything put your money in performance. That also gives you time to think about how you really want it to look. If I were you I'd go through the exhaust first and get that thing sounding sweet. Trust me open headers will turn heads faster than a couple little aesthetic mods here and there.

just my opinion

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Open headers are for hicks and hillbillies.

white1991rs

Yeah if theyre on like a Bronco, cuz I'm not a hick. I dont have them anymore but you cant deny the fact that they are pretty bad ***.

ghost91

Tell me where in the US can you drive a car with open headers? legally