85IROCzzz

iTrader: (1)

Don't know if this is the right section but I couldn't find any other appropriate area.

I was waiting in the left turn lane getting ready to get on the highway. I got a green arrow and me and the lady in the black BMW next to me started to go. I was a little further ahead than she was by about 10 feet because, you know, thirdgens are always first. That's when a guy in a older Taurus runs straight through the red light going the opposite direction, maybe 40-50 MPH hits me on the corner of the nose. Next thing I knew I was spun about 200 degrees counterclockwise stopped and I heard the poor old 176,000 mile TPI take it's last breath. I sat for a second to feel how bad I was hurt, and the only thing bothering me was my ankle, amazingly. I was wearing my seat belt which I always am due to the fact that I have no airbags. So I finally get out to go check on the other guy. Walking up to his car I noticed his airbag didn't deploy on his steering wheel, only the passenger side had. I could tell right away he was not OK because he was grasping his chest and shaking. I asked if he was OK and he replied "I ate the f*cking steering wheel." So I called 911 and told them he was injured and I was OK and that police were already on their way. Looking back it would not have been very fun to hit my heavy *** steel bodied car going that fast and not getting an airbag deployment. My story pretty much ends there, I got all my personal stuff out of the car and they towed it away. Oh and little miss BMW decided to drive away to not be a witness so I couldn't prove I had a green arrow because the guy who hit me was claiming he had a green. Time to talk to insurance companies.

I know someday I'll own another thirdgen and complete what I had planned for this one, which was a LS1 swap after the summer. Then I'll be back to mindlessly browsing these forums, but until then, so long.

Oh and as expected some pictures as sad as it makes me to look at them. Did I mention this was my first car...?

91camarolover

iTrader: (1)

Very very sad... Can I buy your wheels?

blackbeauty89

oh man...i'm so sorry. glad you're ok though. basically your camaro took a bullet for you seeing as you are basically unharmed.

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

atleast your alright, that frames bent...

85IROCzzz

iTrader: (1)

Lol funny story about the wheels, brand new $141/per tire yokohama's put on 2 days ago!!!

rob2000gt

iTrader: (1)

Did you have traffic cameras at the intersection we have them all over

veltboy618

Cars can be replaced, Lives cant! With that being said good youre okay

89rs454

What a moron! I would have finished him off! There is way to many dumb ****s in this world.

camarosrock1989

iTrader: (1)

I am so sorry for the loss of your car, I am glad your ok!
You might want to buy car back and part it, looks like there might be some good parts left. Wishing you all the best! I hope that there will be other witnesses that come forward that saw the wreak. Best wishes

'87IROCZOWNER69

iTrader: (1)

While that would be a good idea to get what you can out of it, I'm not sure how easy that would be for him to do it. Imagine, having your first car totaled and sitting in your driveway and watching someone occasionally come over and tear it apart piece by piece while you watch from afar. To me that would be even harder than losing the car in the first place.

UnderCover89TBI

iTrader: (25)

hey sorry man that sucks! im so sorry...that is very unfortunate i hate seeing wrecked thirdgens!

t-top havoc

iTrader: (3)

Glad to hear you're ok!!

Something I learned from reading // hearing about this kind of crap--

PLEASE LOOK FOR WITNESSES!!! Even put an add in the local paper, but not say you were in it, but witnesses are asked to make statements at the Police Station.

$$ Hungry ***es will say & do anything they can get away with at the expense of the right & innocent!!!

Best Of Luck To You!!!

formula forever

You know i always fear that. another car goes threw when you have a green arrow and the person thinks its a green light. I have seen it happen first hand and its scary. I just wish People pay more attention. glad your ok.

midnightfirews6

iTrader: (1)

First off to the OP... Glad to hear you're okay. Sorry for your loss and hope to see you back on soon. Hopefully your next thirdgen is even more awesome.

I think that it'd be kind of cool to part the car out though.. even though it's gone and it's hard to say goodbye, at least it's making you some cash to put towards your next one and it's living on by making people happy one last time since they can use the parts to keep their thirdgens on the road.

If it costs more to part out than to buy it back it wouldn't be worth it... if you can make some coin and help some brothers out that's definitely a good idea though as long as it doesn't bother you.

Skyset

Aw **** man...atleast you're ok.
But I have to agree with the others here... you can make a fair deal of cash if you part it out, and help the community.

BlackenedBird

iTrader: (5)

I think I see cameras in the above pic. If I'm right about that, those cameras will become invaluable to the OPs insurance company.

Dartht33bagger

God that was a nice car too....I fear that this will happen to my car too. I wish they were fixable at this point sometimes

87IROC-DAN61

Hello Grapheatea!!

Good to see that you made it out of that in one piece, and basically unhurt!!

As for the car, fix it!!

Little by little it can be done!!

None of your glass is broken, therefore the "frame" (hard to find one on a unibody car) can't be tweaked too bad!!

A good body shop (with someone who knows how to use a frame/body puller) can work miracles!!

Don't part it out, buy the parts to fix it!!!



As for the other driver, I hope he gets found out to be in the wrong 100%, and his insurance rates go through the roof, and he can't afford to insure another car!!



A few words of advice, never assume that the other guy knows what he/she is doing, always think that the other driver is trying to kill you, this thinking could possibly have saved you from this situation, as you would have seen this bozo coming at a high rate of speed (40 - 50 mph), and you would not have crossed into his path, even though he ran the red light, and yes, you had the right of way, avoidance through vigilance is the best policy!!

Save the car!!!

drknow90rs_ss@y

iTrader: (3)

No, there are no cameras at this intersection. In AZ we have "Stand-alone" cameras that are mounted on their own poles, and they are really big and bulky... What intersection is this at? Looks like loop 101 and... Can't tell. Sorry to hear about your car! I know where you can get a '90 IROC with L98 for under $1,000 if you have a need. (It's even WHITE, LOL!)

drknow90rs_ss@y

iTrader: (3)

Unfortunately, those turning left never have the right of way, even in the case of a green arrow. That does not mean that they wont rule the accident to be the other guys fault though. (Especially if he can find a witness to the green arrow.) We have some wierd laws here...

86WS6

iTrader: (1)

Sorry about loosing your first car. That bites! Glad you are Ok. I would consider keeping the salvage, provided that you have an appropriate place to store it. When you find another thirdgen, you may find that you can use many of the parts on your wrecked car.

Stonehenge

iTrader: (3)

Sorry to hear what happened.. really glad you are ok. If you take the louvers off your hood, and anything you can remove ANYTHING, get you another 3rd (believe me there are plenty out here!) and replace the louvers, and whatever else you could salvage and trust me, you'll feel like she's REBORN... especially the louvers, cause you see them almost every second you're looking out the window.. and everytime you drink a cold one, pour a little on the ground for your car "that's for my homey" (I've seen them do that on LOCKED UP)

Stone

90FirebirdTA

Dang, man sorry to hear this. Thats a shame. Thats why i even try look to both ways after i get an arrow or even a green light b/c you never know what other drivers are gonna do=// this sucks. Hopefully you'll like your next thirdgen even more!

scottmoyer

Not sure what law school you went to!!! A green arrow always has the right of way when oncoming traffic has a red! That's the point behind having the green arrow. It's to signal you are safe to go and that all other traffic is stopped.

scottmoyer

I did some digging and think that you have a case here if you can find yourself a witness. This is AZ code 28-645 "Traffic Control Signal". I highlighted the areas that state the you need to yield only when the other parties are lawfully entering the intersection. Running a red light is not lawful in any state!

A. If traffic is controlled by traffic control signals exhibiting different colored lights or colored lighted arrows successively one at a time or in combination, only the colors green, red and yellow shall be used, except for special pedestrian signals carrying a word legend. The lights shall indicate and apply to drivers of vehicles and pedestrians as follows:

1. Green indication:

(a) Vehicular traffic facing a green signal may proceed straight through or turn right or left unless a sign at that place prohibits either turn. Vehicular traffic, including vehicles turning right or left, shall yield the right-of-way to other vehicles and to pedestrians lawfully within the intersection or an adjacent crosswalk at the time the signal is exhibited.

(b) Vehicular traffic facing a green arrow signal, shown alone or in combination with another indication, may cautiously enter the intersection only to make the movement indicated by such arrow or such other movement as is permitted by other indications shown at the same time. Vehicular traffic shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to other traffic lawfully using the intersection.

(c) Unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian control signal as provided in section 28-646, pedestrians facing any green signal, except if the sole green signal is a turn arrow, may proceed across the roadway within any marked or unmarked crosswalk.

2. Steady yellow indication:

(a) Vehicular traffic facing a steady yellow signal is warned by the signal that the related green movement is being terminated or that a red indication will be exhibited immediately thereafter when vehicular traffic shall not enter the intersection.

(b) Unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian control signal as provided in section 28-646, pedestrians facing a steady yellow signal are advised by the signal that there is insufficient time to cross the roadway before a red indication is shown and a pedestrian shall not then start to cross the roadway.

3. Red indication:

(a) Except as provided in subdivisions (b) and (c) of this paragraph, vehicular traffic facing a steady red signal alone shall stop before entering the intersection and shall remain standing until an indication to proceed is shown. On receipt of a record of judgment for a violation of this subdivision or an act in another jurisdiction that if committed in this state would be a violation of this section, the department shall order the person to attend and successfully complete traffic survival school training and educational sessions within sixty days after the department issues the order. Notwithstanding section 28-3315, if the person fails to attend or successfully complete traffic survival school training and educational sessions, the department shall suspend the person's driving privilege pursuant to section 28-3306 until the person attends and successfully completes traffic survival school training and educational sessions. A person whose driving privilege is suspended pursuant to this subdivision may request a hearing. If the person requests a hearing, the department shall conduct the hearing as prescribed in section 28-3306. A law enforcement officer or a jurisdiction issuing a citation to a person who violates this subdivision shall provide written notice to the person that if eligible, the person may attend defensive driving school or, if not eligible or if the person chooses not to attend defensive driving school and is convicted or enters a plea of responsible for a violation of this subsection, the person must attend and successfully complete traffic survival school training and educational sessions. The notice shall include a reference to red light violations and state that if the person is required to attend traffic survival school the person will receive notice from the motor vehicle division.

(b) The driver of a vehicle that is stopped in obedience to a red signal and as close as practicable at the entrance to the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if there is no crosswalk, then at the entrance to the intersection, may make a right turn but shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians and other traffic proceeding as directed by the signal. A right turn may be prohibited against a red signal at any intersection if a sign prohibiting the turn is erected at the intersection.

(c) The driver of a vehicle on a one-way street that intersects another one-way street on which traffic moves to the left shall stop in obedience to a red signal but may then make a left turn into the one-way street. The driver shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians and other traffic proceeding as directed by the signal at the intersection, except that such left turn may be prohibited if a sign prohibiting the turn is erected at the intersection.

(d) Unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian control signal as provided in section 28-646, a pedestrian facing a steady red signal alone shall not enter the roadway.

B. If an official traffic control signal is erected and maintained at a place other than an intersection, this section applies except as to those provisions of this section that by their nature can have no application. Any stop required shall be made at a sign or marking on the pavement indicating where the stop shall be made, but in the absence of a sign or marking the stop shall be made at the signal.

C. The driver of a vehicle approaching an intersection that has an official traffic control signal that is inoperative shall bring the vehicle to a complete stop before entering the intersection and may proceed with caution only when it is safe to do so. If two or more vehicles approach an intersection from different streets or highways at approximately the same time and the official traffic control signal for the intersection is inoperative, the driver of each vehicle shall bring the vehicle to a complete stop before entering the intersection and the driver of the vehicle on the left shall yield the right-of-way to the driver of the vehicle on the right.

85IROCzzz

iTrader: (1)

101 and McDowell, there's no cameras there unfortunately. As for parting it out I'll have to see how much the insurance company offers for it.

The officers at the scene were on my side saying that they could tell the other guy was lying, so when he is found at fault his insurance company is getting a lawsuit for my sprained ankle which had to be x-rayed it was so swollen. Also they will be hearing about recovering the wages I lost this weekend for not being able to work (I only work weekends and only on my feet.)

I'll get back with the news of parting it out or not when I hear how much they think she's worth.

Another pic from the tow yard also:

evilemokid94

iTrader: (6)

i would have cried then started beating the living day lights out of that guy.... iv sworn i would do this since i got my car, it ever gets hit and its not my fault im gonna ask if the guys alright, if he is, he wont be when im done.

'87IROCZOWNER69

iTrader: (1)

Just a side note. My dad has that year of Taurus and I'm always on edge when I'm in his car because he not only drives slow but he also forgets to use his turn signal and stuff like that. But best of luck to you and the revival (possibly) or the part out (sadly) of your third gen!

steamwalker

Very sorry for your loss, Grapheatea, and I definitely feel for ya. I still driving my first car. I have a love/hate relationship with my car but I don't know what'd I do without her. Glad you're okay though.

90FirebirdTA

Yea, if you were turning left at an intersection and you had green arrow, that means the oncoming traffic HAD to of had red. His fault, no doubts about it.

GerryCat09

iTrader: (1)

Sorry about your car, glad you are alright. About a year ago I had an accident pretty much exactly the way yours happened, I had the green arrow to get onto the on ramp, and some a**hole ran the red light to commit insurance fraud and claimed he had the green light. No one stuck around to be a witness for either of us. The worst part of it was I was in a new vehicle I was transporting for the dealership I worked at, so my job was on the line. To make it worse yet, I was 21, and the guy who hit me was 57, and the cop thought I was just some dumb kid. There was also no investigation, and the cop put in his report a complete bullshit statement that I admitted fault for the accident, so I had to take it to court, I won the case, and lost my job! Its worth adding that this was my one and only traffic violation I had ever had (until of course I won the case and it was removed). Long story short I know exactly how you feel about the accident, and the whole situation with no witnesses. Glad you are alright though, and very sad about your Camaro.

last_

I feel for you. I got in a wreck a couple years ago that was my fault where I legit did not see oncoming traffic for some reason. Almost had to get rid of my baby but I found quality replacement front clip replacement pieces on the cheap and a shop willing to work with me. Pretty much drained all my cash flow. Anyway, that was a long time ago now, but what I am trying to communicate is that I know how crappy an accident can be and I feel for ya.

90IROC1

iTrader: (4)

So sorry for your loss! I would have cried and then beat the living **** out of the guy for being a moron. These cars are getting harder and harde to find what a shame. Good luck on another one.

Dartht33bagger

I noticed that too. The whole back half of the car looks pretty much perfect. No glass is broken or shattered. Maybe a slight bit of pulling on the frame machine and a new front clip and this car would be back on the road.

85IROCzzz

iTrader: (1)

I don't really have the time or resources to be able to do that, I'm a full time college student with $300 bucks in my bank account, working paycheck to paycheck every week.

last_

My car was not near that bad when I got in my wreck. Cost me 500 bucks to get the frame staightened. Everything is square now. I am afraid to take my k member off though. I disagree and will say that your car is beyond the thresh hold where you can bring it back. Would probly be cheaper just to go get another camaro. BUT.. I am no expert so do not quote me.

drknow90rs_ss@y

iTrader: (3)

Well, my uncle's a cop and my mother is a driving instructor... Trust me, I'm right about this... That does not mean he will automatically be found to be at fault though, The police officer at the scene and the accident investigator (What my uncle does.) do have some discretionary input.

Did anyone recieve a ticket? If the O.P. got one, it would be for "Failure to yield the right of way" If the other guy got one, it would be for " Failure to reduce or control speed". I will get my uncle to give me the A.R.S. codes for it when he gets back from a trip he's on. In this case, it is common for BOTH parties to recieve citations. This is where a witness is very important! I would put up a sign at the intersection asking for witnesses to call the police department and give a statement. Now, If the other driver recieved a citation and the O.P. did not, then good deal! Insurance companies usually determine "Fault" by looking at which motorist got the ticket. Good luck!

ChainHartMachin

Hey glad you're okay! Sorry to hear about (and see) what happened to your car. I had my 88 Formula 350 get totaled by a drunk a couple years ago so I understand what's like to have your ride trashed.

If you have State Farm you can be paid for the value of the car (assuming it's a total), but you can still "buy it back" for the price the car would fetch at a junkyard. My Dad's car got a bunch of hail damage that left it dimpled like a golf ball, but otherwise perfectly drivable. State farm totaled it and paid 2-3k for it, but then he bought it back for a couple hundred bucks and now he drives it every day. I only know about State Farm, but what I'm mentioning might be AZ law and applicable to all auto insurance providers. Worth checking into cause you'd come out ahead even if you didn't part it.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

you couldn't be more wrong.

If you have a left arrow, then that means the oncoming traffic has a RED LIGHT

you can't honestly be saying that the people with the red light have a right of way over the people with a green arrow, right? If you think those are the rules of the road, please... stay off the road

drknow90rs_ss@y

iTrader: (3)

Yes, I'm a commercial driver and I don't know the rules of the road.... *sigh*

ARS; 28-772 : "The driver of a vehicle within an intersection intending to turn left SHALL YIELD the right-of-way to a vehicle that is approaching from the opposite direction and that is within the intersection or so close as to constitute an immediate hazard."

Arizona does not have a "Protected turn, on green arrow" policy. It is seen as the drivers responsibility to prevent a potential accident. There are several law firms in phoenix that specialize in defending people who have recieved a citation for violating ARS; 28-772. (They claim a 7 percent success rate, for the most part.) Do a search for "Arizona revised left turn" If you would like to see more. My uncle is not wrong about this, and, by association, neither am I.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

the OP said the driver in the taurus had a RED LIGHT. There's no way that somebody blowing through a red light has the right of way to somebody with an arrow

I did a google search like you suggested, and yes, Arizlona has some jacked up laws, but what I found was websites saying that the driver with the arrow can be found partially at fault for not avoiding the accident, but the majority of the legal blame still goes to the driver who ran the red light. That's just good defensive driving

A year ago I was rear ended while making a turn, the guy never slowed down, and just plowed into me. He was found 75% at fault for the accident... why? because the insurance company claimed I dind't have my turn signal on (which I did) but them claiming I didn't means they only has to pay for 75% of my car's value. I could have sued them and won because I had witnesses, but for the $400-500 difference in the payment, it wasn't worth it.

puma1552

iTrader: (1)

Completely different situation. The above is for someone with a green light (not green arrow) who is yielding to oncoming traffic coming head-on on the other side of the street, parallel to the street you are on. Further proof is in the wording, "within an intersection intending to turn left" meaning someone who's crept out and stopped in the middle of an intersection waiting for oncoming traffic to pass by so they can complete their turn.

What the OP described (and what the pictures show) was someone who blew a red light coming from a perpendicular direction to where the OP originated before the turn. The OP was turning left, and from the OP's right--on the road he was intending to turn onto--someone blew the red light and smacked into him as he was making his left turn onto the same road. That person who hit him, had they waited for their red light to turn green, would've wound up behind the OP after the OP completed his turn.

Green arrow, right of way, end of story.

1ADan

iTrader: (4)

wow, sorry to see the damage, but glad to see you walked away! sucks to see another 3rd gen bite the dust, but sheet metal can be replaced.

scottmoyer

You're a commercial driver? For what company? I bet they'd be very happy to know that you understand the basics of driving laws. If you look at my post above, I copied the AZ statute that shows the rules and even highlighted the important areas. A green arrow designates that it is safe to turn in that direction and any opposing traffic is stopped. Once the green arrow goes to a solid green indicator, then the people turning left need to yield to oncoming traffic approaching the intersection.

You must be one of those people down here in FL that sits at a green arrow because the other lights are still red! What are they teaching you guys in driver's ed these days? Most people don't know how to merge, turn into the lane closest to them, keep right except to pass, etc. I see so many stories of people wrecking their cars these days and I'm starting to understand why. My son is 13 and after I'm done teaching him the rules of the road, I'm sending him to Bondurant to learn how to drive defensively and control the car in most situations.

formulax4

iTrader: (1)

Whoa. Thank god your ok that could have been allot worse If he hit in the door... man that would have been allot more solid of a hit.Keep in mind the after effects of a accident can show up months if not years later i have learnt first hand.Good insurance company's would still cover each other.Unlike progressive or other cut rate company's.I have also learnt that the hard way as well.Good thing is your alright.Its always sad to see a f body die tho.So many f body's are being privately molested and raped of all the things that make them what they are.usually they will give you like 200-400 less on the settlement if you choose to keep the car (not including tow and storage).Dont give up on these cars im sure you can find another one.Good luck to ya!

Ohh and you don't have to have a 3rdgen to be apart of the community here!

91phoenix

iTrader: (5)

I know first hand that the cops will do this. I was in an accident about 10 or more years ago and when I told the police that I seen a car there but I didn't know what kind it was They wrote that I did not know that there was a car there. Was told that they wrote it and I could not do anything about it. 'They can write anything they want'. I lost my job from that too because of that statement about the car as the company ruled that I admitted fault.

Glad you are OK though. That other driver will hopefully get the worst of it if the police put all that in their report.
Though I wouldn't try to fix the car I hope that you can get another one soon and are able to get back to work..

firebird904

Here in Jacksonville idiots run the redlights and cause accidents like this almost everyday. Every time I'm at a light about to turn left I make sure the cars are actually slowing down at the red light before turning. One time I was waiting to turn arrow turns green and I checked a few seconds as usual and the guy behinds me beeps the horn yelling move that pos...had I gone when he beeped the horn the car would have been t-boned at over 60mph afterwards my dad proceeded to roll the window down and give the guy behind us the one finger salute If my car ever gets wrecked I would be torn as this car has been in the family since new but I would just get another third gen and put the good stuff on the new body.

Scootermunch

wow, i read half the posts before i read that this was in my backyard.

was it the 101 and mcdowell in scottsdale, or 101 and mcdowell by the pavillions?

glad you are ok man, that's one of the perks about these old cars, they are tanks. i never feel safe in a new car.

lets just hope this gets taken care of, and maybe your car will be able to help us other 3rd gens out.

there's a thread in the SW region board of links to 3rd gen parts we find, and we post a lot of 3rd gens whole for sale. maybe you can find a whole one out here (they dont sell for much out here... phoenix lacks taste in autos) and use your old one for parts . then it wont feel like a total loss.

but thats just like my opinion man.

drknow90rs_ss@y

iTrader: (3)

You are correct: Usually in this case, BOTH drivers recieve citations. (Again, according to my uncle, the cop.)

In arizona, the driver of the vehicle who rear-ended you would have been 100% at-fault. Just the way it is here. I have had three tickets in my entire life. One was in 1988 when a driver in front of me in the middle lane of a three lane road. He slammed on the brakes and stopped in the lane to "Avoid running over a tumbleweed and scratching his new car". I rear-ended him (Pushing him over the tumbleweed, LOL!) and because my front end hit his back end, I got the ticket.

The other two were speeding tickets in 1990 and 1996.

AZ does have some unusual laws, but that is just AZ copying CA...

drknow90rs_ss@y

iTrader: (3)

As I said earlier: The green arrow does not give right-of-way. Arizona (And three other states.) simply sees the arrow as a Cue that it is considered "Safe to turn with caution"

I never said that the person who ran the light had right-of-way. You have to look at it from the policemans point of view:
He is arriving at the scene of an accident in which a car that was obviously turning left was hit by a vehicle that was approaching from the opposite direction. One driver says "I had an arrow" the other driver says "I had the green light" The law was designed so that the police officer may decide quickly and fairly in these cases. I dont agree with the law,I didnt write the law, I dont like it and I hope the O.P. didnt get the ticket.