So I swapped in a big block ford, 521 cuin. I didnt realize how much bigger (as in taller) this motor is than a stock 350... but i do now. shes a TALL WIDE motha!

Sorry to say i thought i would be able to get away with a 4" cowl hood but after measuring how much the air cleaner sticks out the top of the engine bay i dont think it would work. I knew hood clearance would be an issue which is why i went with stephs fabrication 1.625" dropped air cleaner assembly with only a 3" filter. I ran a piece of steel 1x2" square tubing accross the top of the fenders to get how much it actually sticks up above the fender line to get a cowl hood to match. Surprisingly the air cleaner sticks out 4.5" above the fender at the foward most point of the air cleaner. At the rear of the air cleaner it measures 3.75" above the fender line.

I called VFN and glassteck about there cowl induction hoods. Glasstek told me theirs is a true 4" cowl and wouldnt work, i could get away with a 5" cowl. VFN told me that theres is a true 4.5" cowl but i would need a minimum of 1.5-2" added on my measurements to make sure i have enough room for fitment. I really dont want to be running a 5" or 6" cowl on the street as that is illegal and i wont be able to see anything lol. I would love to get a 4-4.5" cowl hood and call it a day. However Idk if thats possible. Not to mention the cost goes from 315-340 a hood to about 650-750 a hood for a custom 5-6" cowl hood.

heres some pics of the carb flange and how high it is to the firewall etc. Im trying to think of how to lower the air cleaner/overall height to get away with the 4.5" cowl at least. Only thing i can think of is to get a 2" drop air cleaner and gain .4" basically.

honestly from looking at the air cleaner on the engine it looks like the 4-4.5" cowl would work... its just the very beginning of the air cleaner that sits high and can only really be seen from the side at fender line level.

what you guys think?

 

ill try to take some better pics either tmrw or sunday with the air cleaner on and something to help see the height alil better.

If someone could post pics of where the cowl actually starts on the car in the firebird application that would help. Oh the front of the air cleaner sits 18" from the edge of the rear buldge on the firewall ( in first pic right above the carb). how far does the cowl start from the firewall and when does it reach max height?

 

can you get a shorter manifold?

i can get some on car measurements of my 4.5" vfn hood if you want

 

the only other manifold is the RPM air gap which is 380$. that would easily cover the cost of the custom hood lol.

If you could post some of the measurements that would be appreciated big time.

1.) how far does the cowl start, where is the highest point of the cowl after its started and at what length from the firewall.

2.) how much of an actual cowl is it? from the top of the fenders, then of course subtract the thickness of the hood. (they said its a true 4.5" cowl from the top of the fender to the underside of the hood) i think that might be true at the very back by the winsheild but i need it 18" from the buldge on the firewall.

3.) how wide is the cowl? will my 14" air cleaner fit inside without issue?

5.) does the rear of the cowl (side facing the windsheild) is it solid or open? reason is i want to stick a 2 5/8" fuel pressure gauge there.

4.) could u post lots of pics! pics would tell me alot too so i can see how fast the cowl ramps up and at what point. not to mention see how big the 4.5" cowl really is.

 

Just being a bit creative, but wouldn´t it be worthwile to lok into this hood design?

http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/attach...o-p1010040.jpg

It´s a 4th gen Sunoco style camaro hood, that appears to offer a lot of space, exactly where you want/need it.

Goes under the description of 3" cowl, but from the pictures it looks like a lot more then that towards the centre of the hood.

It´s made by VFN. Maybe they could make you an offer on fitting the bulge on a 3rd gen hood. It would actually not look completely out of place on a banshee bird for instance

 

i will get 1-2 later today

3. i believe its 18" or so inside, a 14" cleaner fits with tons of room to spare

5. back of cowl is wide open.

4. First off, FYI, 4 comes before 5

height is pretty reasonable. I dont have much of a problem seeing around it.
might be the only underside shot i have, my intake is pretty tall and it all fits


itsa 4" tall cleaner with a flat base, the front of the cleaner just clears the hood.

a good side shot


interior view



all just pics i had laying around from for various reasons. If i can fix my camera, i can get some more specific ones if you want

 

i dont remember where in north jersey you were from, but if you are in the area, you can swing by and look it over if you want/need to. PM me

 

that helps alot! actually my air cleaner sits a bunch more foward than yours. I hate that the backside is open... i will have to rethink my gauge mounting now... i was hoping to drill a hole or something and mount it wit an angle ring. If you could get some better pics that would be great. I was thinking if could use an offset drop base... not sure if they make them both.

Pics helped alot! thanks. I thought the cowl sat much closer to the windshield tho... like the glasstek ones.

i see that your gauges changed from pic to pic lol... ES autometers are nice, i like the stewart warners. Are the speedo/tach 5" gauges? and how did u get them to fit? im going to try to swap in a 5" speedo into the stock location as soon as it gets off backorder lol (9months later)!

Im located in 07052 NJ. like 15min from manhattan. essex county. where are you located?

EDIT: also the bird looks great! like the short style wing and the rear stripe.

 

yea thats kinda what i was thinking also... if i were to tell them to make a hood for me it would be specified that i need the scoop to start WAYYY earlier but the cost would still be the same! 650-750 and then 150 shipping is mucho $$.

 

That would be quite expensive indeed. Unless you would find someone who could fabricate a hood in their own garage I guess however that it might be difficult finding a better offer. I´m currently looking into this option myself since I would have to pay $7000 (yes, seventhousand) for a ready bolt-on cowl hood over here, and found out that if I would make my own hood, using the frame off of a steel hood to already have the boltholes all right, I could make a carbonfibre hood for less the $350 myself.

Another and maybe cheaper solution would be to drop the 14" aircleaner in favour of a cold air intake with a low profile cold air intake like this one:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SPE-252D/

Not quite sure if it would fit on your setup, and if it would make much of a difference to the current drop base, and it certainly does not look as "muscle" as the 3" open aircleaner element. With such an engine I would personally spend the money on the custom 4,5" hood.

 

What about swaping the round air cleaner for a tube style set up? That way you wont need so much clearence up front.

Here's an example of what I mean http://www.spectreperformance.com/#CARS

 

ive already looked at that type of setup. first off the cost is more than i would ever want to pay for a carb setup air cleaner setup. I dont like the spectre brand (dont like most brands found in autozones etc since they are cheap like mr. gasket) dont even get me started on mr. gasket! ha.

Ive read up on how to make my own cowl hood, cutting a hole in the hood and bolting a cowl works... however looks quite bad in my opinion. You would have to graff the cowl into the hood and then blend it. Ive had alot of expereince with fiberglass (made my own rear wing) and getting hand layed fiberglass to be smooth and not wavey is quite hard without a mold, not to mention a gel coat to smooth it out etc. And i could potentally butcher the whole setup and be set back even more lol.

Also read up on making my own carbon fiber parts... it is not easy, not that cheap and has to be done correctly. I would personally start with smaller parts and work my way up something as large as a hood.

 

same reason, i hate it and i dont have the room at the front of the engine, i will try to post pics of the motor mocked up so show the room i have. I had to move the power steering pump way up high on the driver side, sits about as high as the top of the valve cover.

 

my new plan is to try a different air cleaner setup.

thinking about this one bc is way smaller and might allow more room even tho its raised 1", so its net height from the carb flange is 3"... not sure what mine is at right now, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-1002/ but it sits the same height but doesnt start until 4-5" farther back then it might help. Negative side effects is the look but that when u have a backfire these have caught fire.

otherwise this will have to be tried, its a 2" drop vs the 1.6" that i have now. I do not know the net height to carb flange since they dont tell me but from the looks of the one i have it doesnt seem to lower the overall height of the top center buldge. as u can see in the pic.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AFC-80550/

 

ive been doing alot of searching on this forum to see how to install hood pins, i know how to install them (not that difficult) but when im not using the hood hindges to line up the hood... how do i line up the hood so all 4 hood pins line up while the hood is aligned on the car (fenders etc)?

I cant just install the hood pins and then drop the hood in the pins to make a mark, then drill it... is it that easy? i think lining up the hood with the rear fender corners and having it line up all the way down the fender will make it harder than just doing that. Maybe i could install the pins all the way down (lowest point) so that i can drop the hood on the car and line it up so that the pins can mark the hood but have the hood low enough to line it up with the fenders?

 

ended up working late, other things came up, blah blah blah, no pics
anyway...

gauges
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...tory-bird.html
speedo and tach are 3 3/8, 5" will not fit int he pod, they can be put in the dash, but lots of cutting involved.

in in 08551 NJ, 20 minutes or so north of trenton, so its a ways.

i'll try to get some measurements tommorow

 

thats probably wht you will have to do. I put a little dab of grease on the end of the pin, so i had a mark when i took the hood off. Drill a small hole first, put the hood back on, see where it lands, and drill a larger hole accordingly. The hole can be larger than the pin, since its covered by the scuff plate, and that plate will ultimately locate the hood once its screwed/bolted/riveted on

your planning to use a pin on hood? i hate pin on hoods

 

yea i heard about the grease trick, also heard of lipstick etc.

yea its going to be a pin on hood. Reason is that the fiberglass ram air II hood that i have with the hood hindges isnt really all that light. Im actually surprised that its as heavy as it is, prob bc its a bolt on. why do you hate pin on hoods?

 

got around to taking some pics and measurements of the motor/air cleaner. these should help you 86TA find out the measurements that i need.

the pics show how high the air cleaner sits above the fender line. The tubing is 1"x2"x.120" and should be stiff enough, so the top of the fender is the bottom edge of the tubing.

 

heres a pic of the front of the air cleaner with the measurements.

other pics are of the rear of the air cleaner and the overall height of the cleaner at the rear compared to the fender height.

here are the other measurements:

TOTAL height of the air cleaner (front side)= 4.5" above fender line but the front edge only sits 3.5" above the fender line which is 3-3.5" forward of the highest point of the front of the air cleaner.

TOTAL height of the air cleaner (rear side)= 3.75" above fender line but also at rear edge its really only 2.5" and is also 3-3.5" rearward of the highest point at the rear of the air cleaner.

AIR CLEANER LOCATION in engine bay: measuring from where the firewall upper lip meets the fender on the pass side, front of the air cleaner measures 21.5" from the firewall. The rear of the air cleaner measures 5.5" from the rear upper lip of the firewall.

AIR CLEANER NET HEIGHT FROM CARB FLANGE: due to the dropped nature of the air cleaner the carb flange buldges in the center which is whats giving me the issues of overall height of the air cleaner. the air cleaner is suppose to be a 1.625" drop, with a 3" filter the NET HEIGHT from the carb flange is still 2.75". This is my biggest issue, if i could get the net height from the carb flange down to say 2.25" or so i would have enough room for the 4.5" cowl probably.

 

however ive heard mixed reviews about the VFN hoods, and that the glasstek hoods are of a better fit and quality.

86 TA, if you could try to get your measurements of what i posted that would be MUCH appreciated. Since i believe your carb sits farther towards the firewall a bit more than mine. and if you could find the overall height of your carb over the top fender line and perhaps the distance/room you have above the air cleaner (playdoe or something) could make or break what i need.

Im hoping to try and figure out the air cleaner so i can get one that might give me alittle more clearance perhaps.

thanks again!

 

im sorry, i got really busy with work and such, i havent had time to get this done for you, i will, give me time.

as for fitment, my fvn hood fit great, and i dont know of anybody with a undamaged car that had fitment issues with vfn parts. quality, it had a few pinholes in the gelcoat, but nothing major, and its been working well for almost 6 years now.

pin on hood are just a PITA to work with, especially by yourself, and every time you have to get under the hood, you have to take it off, find somewhere to put it down, hope it doesn't blow away or get scratched, stepped on ect.

 

honestly, from the looks of that, i dont see anyway my hood would clear that, at 4.5" at the front of the air cleaner, that far down the hood, i dont think its possible with any 4.5" hood. You may be boned.

 

That 521 is massive under the hood of a 3rd gen. You may have to get the hood custom made. Even the valve covers don't look like they'll clear.

 

yea i understand. I was hoping to have it done but I still need to play with air cleaners to see if i can gain clearance, even if i can get it down like 1/2" or so i would be good i think.

Have you ever tried those triangle edelbrock filters?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-1002/

im worried about it but hell if i cant get away with it then i guess a 5" cowl wouldnt be horrible but idk, id rather save the money and get the 4-4.5" cowl.

try to get those measurements and ill try to get those some different filters by the end of the week.

thanks again.

 

haha yea its frigin HUGE! however it does fit believe it or not. I have 1/2" or so clearance of the valve cover on the driver side to the brake booster. I ended up moving the booster over about 1/4-1/2" to gain the clearance.

I have a ton of room on the pass side. The headers were a PITA, getting them to work with no room was a challenge however it is DONE! i was able to fit 2" primaries and 3.5" collects and 3" full true duals with Xpipe.

the intake was a minor worry since the exhaust was much harder.

 

I've got a crazy idea that might look good. Cut a hole in your hood and have the air cleaner sticking out like they do on dirt cars.

http://www.americansportscardesigns....ylor-race2.jpg

 

I don't see why you don't design your own shaker hood. Just cut a hole in a stock hood, and design a shaker for it, like a 2nd gen. It wouldn't need to be blended because it wouldn't be part of the hood itself, as if you do it the 2nd gen way, it would seal up on the underside of the hood when closed.

 

I know someone who has been driving one of these triangular filters for quite a few years now without any problems.

Admittedly not fitted on such a gem of an engine however, he uses it on a 350 SBC.

I´m not qute certain if you would gain anything by using it however. It´s fairly flat, but with the drop base your current filter should be fairly flat as well.

Wouldn´t it be an option to use the drop base filter (1,6´ish") with a 3" filter element and a flat K&N xtreme or similar lid to gain some distance?

It will reduce the amount of air going through the filter element but you would not have to worry about asphyxiation. Would require cleaning the filter top more often

 

ha well i thought about that already... however my stock hood got dents all on the pass side from a deer incursion lol... it was a power buldge hood too! that would look odd with a carb filter sticking out the top! And there is no way im cutting up my current 900$ hood (ram air II 2.5" cowl) to get this to work.

 

thats a neat idea... could be alot of FAB work and could cost a bit more. maybe ill see what it would cost for the shaker and a stock hood (pin on of course). I guess i should state that i want this to be LIGHT! the BBF is a big pig ( i guess the same as a BBC) the stock iron heads weigh 90lbs EACH! without manifolds or Valve covers lol. Im not worried about looks as this thing is designed to be beaten on, ill prob even keep the gelcoat as a flat black and not paint it to match the car.

 

hmm thats what im alittle worried about... its fairly fat. im hoping to get the air cleaner started later (farther back towards the firewall) which will allow the fender incline to catch up and reduce the overall height of the air cleaner in relationship to the fender line. At 16$ it might be a nice thing to have around as a "just in case filter" lol.

My drop base I have now im alittle upset about, the drop is a 1.625" supposidly, I measured about 1 1/2"-1 5/8" drop from carb flange, however the NET height of the air cleaner from the carb flange is at 2.75". So really the drop base only really lowered the overall height of the air cleaner about 0.25" since im running a 3" filter (i should be running a 4" filter bc im restricting my motor by about 20 CFM due to the calculations on the K&N website). If i could get the net height of the air cleaner down to say 2.25" i could prob run the 4" glasstek hood, if i could get the net height down to 2.5" i could prob run the 4.5" VFN hood.

Im not sure about the demensions of the K&N extreme filter tops. If that was a possibility i would run a 2" filter and the filter top perhaps to gain some clearance, since most of the air would be sucked in from the top.

 

I wouldnt say its a GEM but its pretty nice now that ive made it look much better. The pistons make the 350 SBC look like moped pistons lol. overall the ford engine is pretty nifty, these BBFs can handle INSANE power with 2 bolt mains and Cast cranks with 3" mains. Not to mention the distributer is right up front so.... timing changes/ignition changes will be soooo frigin easy! never fighting the firewall again like on my 383 HSR! And spark plugs have so much room and point striaight up that i could take them out in 3min and not have to wear mechanic gloves so i dont leave flesh on the headers lol.

best part is that i made her a GEM by being the first to throw on in a GM look out car craft MAG!

 

i got a few basic measurements, the cowl is 20.5 wide at the tallest point, and flare out from there to about 22.5

on the passengerside of the engine bay, on the firewall lip, there is a bump out where the lip extends further intot he bay circled in yellow


from that point, i have 18" to the front of my air pan, and at the front of the pan, i have a height of just over 4" to the underside of the hood in the center measured from the top of the fenders

the cowl is 4.5" in height at the rear, measured off the top of the hood to the top of the cowl, that is the only place its 4.5", and it gradually tapers down as it extends to the front of the car.

thats all i could grab tonight, if you need something else more specific, i may have to wait till this weekend. but it looks like you are not going to be able to use this hood anyway.

 

thanks so much! you just put my mind at ease. I measured from the Bump off the firewall just as you did and to the front edge of the air cleaner was 18" so its the same distance as you. My air cleaner was about 3.5" at that height and then went up to about 4.5" as u could see in my pics. That means i would have to lower my air cleaner about .5" to be safe i guess. I guess i located the motor/trans perfectly! yes!

The only other measurement i could use would be the actual height of the cowl at the front edge and rear edge of the air cleaner. The only way i could see you getting these measurements would be to put some playdoe on the top of the air cleaner at the front and back and close the hood. Then measure the total height from the top of the fenders. this is all i need now then i cant make sure i fall below the measurements that you get.


again, thanks so much!

 

I also just ordered the 2" drop air cleaner but im not going to use the top formed peice. I also purchased a 2" round filter (i was using a 3") this should drop me an inch over before. Then due to the decrease in air flow (going from a 3" to 2") i purchased a filter top to gain back the increased airflow. Depending on the height of the filter top I should be able to lower it a full .5"-1".

I checked my dropped air cleaner i have been using to be sure and they advertised the drop at 1.625" and the actual drop is only 1.432". then the top is bulged upwards a full 1" so its not really what i wanted. Hopefully the 2" drop and the filter top will give me a buttload more clearance . I got the filter top for 30$ and the 2" round filter for 19$... all reusable preoiled.

Im returning the stuff i have to help with the cost.

 

i can get my hands into the cowl opening with the hood shut and the air cleaner off and get a measurement

 

My vote is also cutting up a stock hood. You ought to be able to locate a stock flat hood for nothing, cut the hole, put your air cleaner through it and then take lots of measurements with that hood on. You could mock up the whole setup and still drive the car around, then order your fiberglass hood later.

Just my two cents... I just hate spending big bucks on parts like that hood and then finding out later that it does not fit right...

Good luck!!

 

i would need the measurement with the air cleaner on tho. Since really what i need is the total height of the cowl from the inside of the cowl to the top of the fender line at both the front and rear of the air cleaner.

 

i have a stock formula hood with the bulge but the car wont be ready for the road for at least a few months. As i still need to purchase heads, measure for pushrods, and finish up all the wiring and gauges. Then figure out how im going to fix the hole they put in my door when they pryed a hole around the door key when they stole my car. not going to waste money buying a stock hood even if its cheap when i will still need a hood.

 

i have had some trouble with hood clearences also, im looking at a lower drop base for my air cleaner, it should give me the room i need, maybe it can do the same for you, good luck.

 

good luck! the lowest drop ive seen is 2" which i just got. anything else that has a lower NET height to carb flange is lowrise filters with 2" filters.

 

where did you get yours from? i migyt not hahe the same issues as you, i was thinking about modifying mine.

 

ever think of making ur own hood?? wouldnt take that much to do and with a lil fiberglass work it could turn out really nice

 

that is by far one of the sexyiest ta's i have EVER SEEN.. 86 ta since u live right here in central jersey i would love to meet up one day just to see this bad girl.. she looks AMAZING..

 

summit racing, AFCO racing drop base air cleaner.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AFC-80550/

 

thought about it, still tho getting hand laid fiberglass to look nice is very difficult to do. I thought about a stock pin on and a shaker hood. however the distributer even sticks alittle past the top fender line lol. This motor is huge! so the hood would have to be cut wider (larger hole) than i would want and it would decrease the structual integrety of the hood. then id have to worry about perhaps the throttle and kickdown cables.

 

Just finish dressing up the under hood and dont drive it in the rain. It's one bad *** looking custom. Got to pretty much be one of a kind.

 

you saying no filter at all? haha thought about it . at the track it will have no filter of course, but on the streets of NJ i gotta be careful, with the way things look around here i might suck up a diaper or hell even a baby.

oh shes the only one! hoping to get a article written on her

 

Oh no. I don't mean no filter. Never run that beast with no filter. I meant no hood.