blaznhot

iTrader: (1)

I recently had the headlight motors in my '92 Bird repaired by replacing the bushings since that is the fix when they start acting up. I had the bushings already but was informed by the mechanic on a pretty good trick he had done many times where you'll never have to replace bushings again! Using 3 - 1/4" thread 7/16" steel nuts on each side works,fits and will never wear out! Just for your FYI.

As seen in another post someone said glue sticks are basically the same thing and I've heard that also. 7/16" OD rubber water line is another.

blackbeauty89

is this a proven fact? lol cause mine are in desperate need of repair. also, is there any place you recommend that i get a motor repair kit? for the best price?

blaznhot

iTrader: (1)

The mechanic that put them in has done it many times on headlight motors, pwr window motors and mine work great. Before I had to help one open and close and both did the clickity click when closing. You can find the neophrene bushings on Ebay with install instructions for around $20+shipping. 6 stainless nuts at Lowe's or Home Depot maybe 50 cents?

blackbeauty89

i'll have to try that or somethin lol. they're really pissin me off lately. so now i just left em both up and unplugged the motors cause one of them won't even move anymore.

blaznhot

iTrader: (1)

Sounds like one motor is gone then. Bushings will fix probebly fix the other. Call Hawk's 3RD Gen they should be able to hook you up. 1-864-855-2694 and they ship. Good luck!

blackbeauty89

the motor spins but nothing happens lol. so yea i'll have to give em a call tomorrow.

Demo77

Hey can you give some intructions on how to do this? My drivers side does the clinkity clank clank going up or down and the passenger side does the disco boogey oogey with a bit of ADHD on going up or down. Where do i put these screws/nuts.... also these take the place of the bushings?

1ADan

iTrader: (4)

the only reason a worry about putting something tougher in there is that i'd rather break a $20 thing of bushings than a $150+ motor if things get jammed up. of course, personal opinion, so take with a grain of salt

blaznhot

iTrader: (1)

The neophrene bushings are used only because they are soft and quiet. There's also some sold on Ebay made of brass so metal "in my opinion" shouldn't cause any problems.

blaznhot

iTrader: (1)

Call Hawk's from the number below. They carry the neophrene bushings and come with install instructions. It's up to you to go with nuts but I would.

Slayze

iTrader: (1)

I replaced my Bushings and can crank my headlight up manually NP now all I need to figure out is where can I get some brushes for the motor?

blaznhot

iTrader: (1)

Call Hawk's Third Gen. 1-864-855-2694. They may carry them or know where you can get them.

Slayze

iTrader: (1)

You dont see alot of headlight motors in junk yards these days, but what I did find out is that an 87 sunbird has the same type of motor and there is plenty of them in the junkyard. The body bolts up diffrently but you can swap the insides out if you need to repair your old ones.

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

Used brushes are available from the same place you can buy the headlight reair kit (TDS) Top-Down Solutions.

Lon

crazyjc15

thankx for the info, ill defiantly be looking into it cause both my lights click.

Maeryk

I believe the guy next door replaces the old drive bushings (I guess they are?) the ones that get all powdery and stop driving the spindle, with pieces of plastic that he gets from HF.. they look like brown glue gun sticks. He's redone tons of Fiero (same mechanism) lights and they all continue to work.

blaznhot

iTrader: (1)

Yeah there's a few cars compatable with Bird parts.

Jim Berry

I used some super glue on my sons' car and found some plastic "*****"? for the insides. The pile of dust to the left is the old ones.

blaznhot

iTrader: (1)

I've found out that there's several very inexpensive things that will work fine without paying $20 from a site for the neophrene ones. Like you used, and the ad below using cuts from a glue stick that I've heard will work fine. I was at Advance Auto and noticed a 3 pack of pwr window motor bushings for $3 and they looked exactly like the ones to use.

blackbeauty89

what could i use for a gasket replacement on these motors?

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

http://www.top-downsolutions.com/pro...products_id=58

http://www.top-downsolutions.com/pro...products_id=57

Buy a sheet of gasket material at the auto parts store. Trace the patern onto the gasket. Cut it out with an exacto knife. Or just buy them already made from the links above.

Lon

gwarren007

iTrader: (1)

For the bushings I used 3/16" fuel line cut to size

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

Did I make a mistake in just buying the bushings? Should I have bought a kit including the gaskets (ie, are they required?).

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Gaskets are reusable assuming they come out intact. Take your time

Hardest part is getting the potmetal bolts out without shearing one off

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

Yeah... Either the bolts will shear off or part of the housing will when you try to drill them out. Killed 2 motors that way . I've used anti-seize on mine.

When I fixed mine back in 2004, I used 4 3/8" ball bearings. Don't know why 4, but that's what came out of my motors when I took the bearings out to replace the motors with sheared housings (I could swear I only bought 3, but they're sitting next to me and there's 4). You could get away with 1 per motor with the rest being stock if you can find some stock ones in good shape. The ball/nut/what have you will keep the outer gear from spinning on the inner shaft and shredding the neoprene bushings.

The question of the day is why the idiots at GM decided to use a nylon gear and a steel shaft? I would have just made the whole thing out of one piece of steel...

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

Got to have a wear item in there

My beef is the ridge on one side of the nylon gear preventing it from being pulled out. One motor has to be completely disassembled to get the gear out, the other side pops right out. Those brushes are a PITA to get back in

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

I just got the bushings in the mail - Assuming the stuff comes apart and gaskets are reusable, are there any other parts I need?

89-bird

I just counter sunk 3 screws in each gear and shaft and pulled them together and knock on wood the only problem in the 6 or 7 yrs since is I may have a bad connection or loose solder joint in the control box on the firewall and one or both don't come up right away . Other than that no problems but when I do I will put something stronger than the repair kit in there for sure . Hey Dante if you mess up a motor I have a few in the garage if you need one call me .

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

Thanks.

So do I remove the whole headlight assembly or just the motor? Where are these bushings actually located?

89-bird

I remove the whole thing to make it easy to work on but if you can get to everthing without doing so then I would . If you look at post 18 you can see the motor taken apart and where things go . If you lived closer I would do it for you and not charge you much to do it .

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

Follow the instructions that came with the headlight repair kit. Remove the entire headlight actuator assembly. The instructions also show you how to make a tool to retain the brushes to reinstall the headlight motor without damaging the brushes.

Lon

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

Good idea! I finally got the headlight assembly out, which took some work and about 500 bolts. Since my headlight was stuck 'down', I had to get creative to get it back up and get to the lower bolts.

I took the cover off the gear assembly and sure enough, a ton of dust/debris fell out - My gear is still fine and everything else looks good inside - I've got to get some of the grease, though. OH - And a screw holding the cover on broke - Gotta get that taken care of next... The instructions say to drill it, but what size bit would you recommend? Will what's left of it come out after its drilled down the center or do I need a tap as well? What size thread was the original screw? OR - Do I just drill it out one size bigger (all the way through) and use a bolt/nut combo?

I am curious, what is the purpose for removing the motor itself? My motor seemed to operate just fine, the light just wasn't moving (proof in my case was the bushing dust).

Thanks!! Hopefully I get an answer soon and I can run to the parts store for some stuff...

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

The reason why you need to remove the motor on one of the LH (drivers side) is that the OEM nylon gear has a flange cast on the gear. You won't be able to get this flange past the worm drive of the motor without removing the motor first.

It's too bad you snapped the head off of the screw. This is why I recommend using a penetrating lubricant such as AeroKroil or PB Blaster and tapping the head of the screw with a punch and hammer before trying to remove the screw. Even doing this it is still possible to snap the head. This is why I include two 1/2" long 8-32 hex-head machine screws and nuts with the 209280 deluxe headlight repair kit. Rather than drilling out the old broken screw and re-tapping I recommend drilling a clearance hole. Use a #18 (.1695") or #16 (.1770") drill bit.

Lon

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

Thanks for the help and info! I just wrapped everything on the headlight motor up. All in all, and considering I've never worked on a motorized headlight, I'd say it went pretty well. The toughest part was honestly getting the headlight/motor out. Since the headlight wouldn't come up, I had to remove a lot of bolts simply to get the headlight to raise so I could get to the bottom 2 bolts on the assembly housing.

Sure enough, one screw broke - I didn't have any penetrating oil (or anything, really) to soak the screws in - I barely turned the one screw and it broke instantly. The other two came out slowly and snug. I drilled the broken one out and picked up some 8-32 screws/nuts. Worked fine.

Since it was my pass side, I didn't have to remove the motor to get the gear out - Sure enough, there was the tablespoon (or more) of the crumbled remnants of the original bushings... After cleaning the motor gear, nylon gear, and the housing, I greased the hell out of everything and reassembled. My old gasket was slightly out of shape, but worked fine.

Reassembled everything on the car (good thing I marked the headlight housing bolts before taking them off) and all is now well. Both headlights go up and down!

Looking back though, I definitely would recommend the complete rebuild kit pictured above. I know its only a matter of time before the driver's side on goes and I really should've ordered the whole kit - Having never done anything like this before, I wasn't really sure what all was involved which is why I only ordered the 3-bushing set.

Anyway, thanks for the parts and help Lon!











Now if I could only get the fuel tank swapped and get this stupid thing running...

89-bird

Good to see you got it back together with only one problem .

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

Yeah, it went pretty smooth - I was hopin' to get the fuel tank out today but the dang snow/ice still hasn't melted off the driveway enough to be dry...

I'm really tired of this weather.

89-bird

I hate the weather too . I had to be in it a few times to work on my womans car . She kept having a flat . The place I had put the tire on didn't replace the valve stem , bead seal the rim , or put the weight on tight . I went to Advance and got what I needed and did it my self and no problems ( knock on wood ) since . Back on topic . I never had to pull the motors on mine to get the gear out . Once the shaft is out all you have to do is tilt the gear out . I need to look at my headlight control box to see if it has any loose conections or solder joints so mine work perfect all the time .

Dante93GTZ

iTrader: (5)

I had to remove the whole assembly because I couldn't get access to the bolt that connects the motor to the armature because my headlight was locked in the down position. It just made everything easier to remove it all... at least for me.

89-bird

I remove the whole headlight assembly but the electric motors stay inplace . I have seen the electric motor removed without takeing the whole assembly out but it takes just as long to do it like that if you ask me .

scottishtransam

Just done this. Definitely remove the whole assembly it's only 4 10mm bolts. For bushings I used 3 electrical marrettes cut to the appropriate size. Total cost $0 as I had them in a drawer.

blaznhot

iTrader: (1)

All the bushings do is just hold the shaft in place as it turns. Anything pretty much if it's round the same diameter and thickness will do the job. The factory neophrene ones just deteriorate over time. I'm going with stainless nuts, 50cents maybe for 6 next time and they will never have to be replaced again.

Schroeder

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys I found this post really helpful. I am actually going through all this with my headlights right now. I opened them on Friday and all the bushing dust fell out. Since then I drilled a hole in the steel circular base of the shaft. I then screwed the plastic gear to the steel base (and thus the shaft). Do you guys think this is okay? I know that there is no give now, but does there have to be? Will this burn my motor up? Thanks.

Schroeder

iTrader: (1)

One other thing I forgot to ask...

blaznhot, if you use the nuts you specified to their edges have to be ground down so they're round or can you stick them in the motor as is?

Scootermunch

does anyone have a pic or copy of the instructions?

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

I do. http://www.top-downsolutions.com/Doc...structions.pdf

The instructions are on the lower left side of my web site under "Documentation". You'll want the instructions for the 209280 deluxe headlight repair kit. Or just click on the link I pasted above.

Lon Salgren

blaznhot

iTrader: (1)

No just use stainless nuts the same diameter as the neophrene bushings.

ScottsBlown

Been searching for a good thread on headlight repair for days, best I've found. I think it's insane there is no tech article, youtube vid, or sticky on this 20+ year problem!! I'm a visual person, I need step by step pics! Have a repair kit. Pictures in the directions, while probably somewhat useful, leave me wanting more. (uninstall process)

So yes I'm having a little trouble with the repair of my driver side headlight motor. I'm not sure how to remove the headlight assembly to get to the 3 motor bolts. Some of the repair directions I don't fully understand. "remove two 10mm bolts from top of headlight assembly, which holds it to body."

So is it the ones on the radiator support or the ones above lamp? Really I just don't see how the assembly will come out with just 4 bolts.



I'm assuming these have to be the lower 2



And where should i be making a mark with a permant marker at?

*There should be a "For Dummies" edition if fact I should make one, for future dummies like me

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

Mark around the two brackets on the radiator support. You just need to know their original orientation is all. You COULD do the repair without marking their locations, but the holes in the bracket are slots allowing for adjustment to align the headlight bucket. It is mush easier to mark their location before you begin removintg them as an aid to know where they should go when the repair of the headlight actuator is finished.

Lon

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (14)

if you get under the car, you can easliy unbolt 2 bolts that hold that lower mounting bracket to the body i stead of trying to get the two from under the light itself

a62belair

I used fuel tubing and filled a section with silicone, then cut to size... worked great! And, they are quiet.