Yor

Hey guys,
I always forget to post here and see how everyone is doing, hopefully well.

Anyways, I am looking at buying a 1989 Pontiac Firebird Formula, it has 120k original miles, 350 TPI, T-Tops, power everything (Except seats I believe), it may be a WS6 but I'm not sure yet.

It appears to be in real solid shape, it's garaged over the winter so has APPARENTLY "no rust", I'm going to look it over again on Monday.

I personally hate the formula bumpers, hood, taillights.. you know, everything. lol
I also saw a 1986 Trans Am parts car in my local area that still has the original steering wheel (Not the one with the radio controls in it obviously), taillights, all the ground effects, hood and both bumpers. I can get all of these parts for about 250 bucks, but I wasn't sure if this would be a direct swap between the two cars.

If it is not, is there any sort of major modifications I would have to make? I don't think it would be difficult, just time consuming and then I'd have to get it repainted red.

Thanks for your help guys

Yor

Sorry for whining. ><

I figured it would all bolt right up since they're really the same car, and I could get away with the conversion since it has a TPI 350..

87_TA_GTA

should all be a direct bolt on.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

First off....Wait more than an hour before getting frustrated that nobody has replied within a hour of you asking. We have lives outside of TGO.

To answer your question...Yes. Minor rewiring of the tail lights & you'll need to swap out the whole headlight assemblies & some minor wiring up front too, but if you have a good donor car to get everything from, it'll be easy.

Yor

I wasn't trying to whine, sorry.

I found a donor car and I just wanted to make sure I wasn't going to waste money on the taillights and other parts if it would be too much to handle for a simple conversion.
I'm hoping so, like I said I really assumed it would all go right on no problem, I just wanted to get some input on if there would be any areas of difficulty (nose cone, getting ground effects to fit, etc.)

What from the front end would I have to re-wire exactly? I don't believe the formula has fog-lights, it's fully loaded other than that and power seats though.

$750 L98

Awww, poor formy. If the parts are in decent shape I may take them. And honestly a "good condition" formy is pretty rare and desirable...I personally love the no frills, trim, go fast look they have.

Yor

Lol, I don't mind the Formula to be honest, I like all firebirds EXCEPT the retarded round nose-cone style they took from the concept firebird.

For now I'm going to keep it as a clean stock formula, but once I have all the parts I'm going to make it a GTA notchback clone. I love that body-style, and I love the notchback window.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

This is another of those cases where you'd be further ahead to buy what you want then buy something else and try to make it what you want.

$750 L98

It will certainly be expensive/labor intensive to make it a GTA, Honestly after realizing that the ONLY 3rd gen firebirds you see on the road anymore are GTAs or GTA clones...you might come to love the ugly little duckling.

I originally liked the GTA/trans am look as well, but I could only afford a formula, it grew on me, it would crush my soul to turn it into anything else now. A 350 TPI formula was also the leanest meanest of the 3rd gen cars, other than the firehawk/TTA cars. Not to mention they were purpose built war machines meant to combat the mustan 5.0. They have a lot of history and background.

Looking back, I'd kill for an all original Formula 350 actually.

Yor

Although I normally agree with that, finding Trans Ams in New England is a lot harder than you'd think. The few I do find are either complete POS's, or are in mint condition and I cannot afford. (I've found 4 Trans Ams exactly like what I want, but they all had less than 60k miles and the owners wanted 7000+ dollars)

This formula I'm looking at however is being sold for 2400 dollars, and is a real solid car. Like I said, it has 124k miles on it and supposedly has been garaged for nearly every winter.

I may just keep it as a Formula, but I found a whole trans am parts car for less than 400 bucks, which at that point all the car would need is a paint job.

Like I said, I have nothing AGAINST the formula body style, I may just drive it around for the summer as a formula and see how I like it.

$750 L98

I hear ya, It will be your car so it is your's to do with as you please, just sharing my experience with you. I was in the same boat, but down here all I see are trans am/GTA cars. So I ended up keeping the body stock. I have always wanted a notchback though, those things are one of the neatest looking 3rd gens. As you said though, most are selling for a pretty penny, and mostly out of my price range.

If you can source a good parts car for the Trans Am swap though, it should be pretty straight forward, If they have the same motor/trans you might even be able to just swap harnesses for the supercifcial stuff like the lights for the front and rear. It would certainly keep the wiring clean and "Original looking".

I vote for the cross lace wheels if you do convert it, I've always loved the look of those!

Yor

I actually found another person who is selling an aftermarket notchback hatch that just needs to be repainted, and I would figure it would be a direct bolt on. A notchback formula may look awesome, I'm not sure yet. But yeah, GTAs/Trans Ams sell for 8000+ dollars up north if they're in great shape, it's ridiculous.

I may TRY to swap the wiring harness, but I'm not great with those, so I may or may not cheat but keep the wires neat somehow.

What sort of front end re-wiring would need to be done? from the looks of it the headlights and turn signals are in the exact same area on each model, so I wouldn't see any trouble with having to swap anything, especially if I don't include foglights in the ground effects, or just put in dummy lights for those. lol

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

I love formulas... They are getting harder to find... Seems everyone has a GTA, Trans Am or Base Model... Keep it a Formula!

Yor

Lol, I'll have to think about it I guess, the parts are readily available around here to swap back and forth. Hell if anything I could just keep both sets and swap them each year to make people around here think I have two of the exact same color firebird.

But yeah, Trans ams aren't common in my area for some reason, I've seen at least 4 formulas and only 1 trans am.

CAMAROS HOWEVER.... I see 1 every other day! And not just the one my buddy at work owns. lol.

88gta_hiflyer

iTrader: (1)

FYI. If you're planning to swap the headlight wiring harness for your GTA conversion the one from the 86 donor car you mentioned won't work. 86 has different headlight motors and relays rather than the module that mounts on the firewall in your 89. I think any 87-90 TA harness will work but I'm not positive. Sounds like a sweet formula though. Don't see many like that in my area.

84redta

iTrader: (34)

You won't have to do any rewiring. You can look at my car for an example. '88 Firebird, turned '88 GTA clone, and all i did was change a wire in the steering column to get the T/A tail lights to work, and then i got the SEPERATE fog light harness off of a doner '88 T/A, unplugged the hole in my firewall for it, ran the wires, and that was it. '89 should have the same hole for the seperate fog light harness that the '86 donor car will provide. There is no modifying or doing anything other than changing body panels, drilling holes for the side skirts, and getting all the correct fasteners. Do what you want with the car, but people are correct to say that an all original Fomula 350 is as desirable as a fully loaded T/A and possibly GTA.

Yor

Awesome, thank you Red, I'm hoping it will stay that simple. I believe I'm going to have to take apart the parts car myself, I don't think it's been disassembled yet, it may have. If not then I am gonna pocket all of the fasteners/screws and whatnot.

From what I understand Formulas are a bit more rare overall, but firebirds in general are rare up here. I've seen maybe 4, ever. 1 black trans am, 1 white trans am, 1 beat up red formula, 1 REAL beat up dull red base. lol

84redta

iTrader: (34)

Yea, i'ts the same around here, camaro's are around, there are maybe 3-5 in my town with more outside of town, but firebirds, there are none, i'm the only one in my area to have one, so it's nice, and i get looks everywhere i go so it's all good. Third gens are becoming scarce, and whats sad, is i see more third gens now that it's winter outside than during the summer. It's a sad sad sight.

scottmoyer

Take this for what it's worth....

You buy the Formula for $2400, buy some parts for $250 and you have $2650. Let's add another $350 for unforseen costs of parts, etc. Now you're at $3000. After you add the labor and parts to the car, you will need to have it all painted. If the car is rust free, I would hope that you would get a nice paint job. That could cost about $2500 more. You are now up to $5500 for a car with 125k miles and is a clone of what you really want. With 125k miles, you may need to do some work, especially if the car has been stored, so add another $500 for miscellaneous engine and suspension repair. Now the cost is $6000 for a clone of what you really want. Wouldn't you rather have the car you want from the get go, enjoy it today and know that the lower mileage gives you more time to enjoy it?

If you can't find what you want locally, look outside your area. People on TGO are known to be willing to look at a car for someone else and give an honest opinion with pictures. Airfare is relatively cheap to fly out to get the car if you need to.

Edit - I just found a 1988 GTA notchback on eBay for $4850 with the same miles as the formula.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1988-...item20af1d4b1c

Yor

My only problem with buying a vehicle I can't see is I want my own personal opinion on it, I know most folks on this site know the problem areas as well, but I don't feel comfortable doing so without being the one who is really under that car.

I went to see the formula today. Wow.
It was a WS6, which I didn't know until I got inside it.
Fast. Real fast.

Check engine light was on and it ran like **** without punching the gas.

The people who were selling it (all three of them... suspicious much?) were in quite a rush to sell it...

It felt way too suspicious.. I won't be buying it.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

How'd you know it was a WS6, after getting inside the car?

$750 L98

Sounds like dead O2 sensors, or something of the sort. He probably saw the "performance suspension" badging and wheel caps.

84redta

iTrader: (34)

And the fact that aren't all Formula's equiped with the WS6 suspension package? I've never heard of them being down graded before. Could be wrong, but as mentioned above, probably saw the wheels and the performance suspension badge on the dash.

Agreed, if it runs well under WOT, then i say talk em down in price with "cost of sensors" and take it home. Could be a $20 O2 sensor and you're home free.

BigBadGTA

I would keep looking for a GTA. You could find one for 4K or cheaper with the same miles as the Formy. Just so you know, the aftermarket notchbacks are not the same as the originals. The way they are shaped around the glass are very different. The factory notchback uses different struts and hinges. I actually own a mint factory equiped AA8 notchback GTA that I converted to a normal hatch because the notchback needed work. I didnt fancy the appearance of it either. The window leaked, and the fiberglass cracked on mine.

rdhanded2

iTrader: (3)

Before you buy anything, no matter how good it looks, check the floor pans. I have seen cars that look amazing that are rotted underneath. Just my $0.02

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

The best thing you can do is simply buy the body style of car you want. It's also easier to turn a Trans Am or GTA into a Formula Firebird clone than it is to go the other way.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

This is excellent advice. I ended up with a Trans Am that looked awesome on the outside and had some rust issues underneath. Fortunately I'm lucky in that the rotted parts aren't too bad and don't extend to large areas.

Yor

It actually had American Racing Equipment rims, not the originals, but yes it had the "Performance Suspension" badge right under the map pocket, which looked original to the car, as the paint was chipped and looked quite old.

I got under it at once point and checked the wheel wells, trunk pan (corners especially), most of the rockers, and both floor pans. They weren't kidding when they said it was garaged for a long time.

It had some other curious nicks in it however, the antenna was broken off, the 'custom mint paint' was spidered in quite a few areas (mainly front bumper) and other little things.. but something just didn't feel right. They were in too much of a rush to sell that car today, 3 fairly older people (older man, older woman, and a man in his mid 30's by the looks of it). Also, there were small puddles of mixed oil and water under the car when they pulled it out of the spot it was parked in, which automatically turned me off from the car. That and the fact the guy had quite a hard time going in reverse...

It just seemed like a lemon. It had every desirable option I wanted, but I think if I bought it something bad was going to happen.. had one of those bad vibes from the car as soon as they started talking at the same time about it.

88gta_hiflyer

iTrader: (1)

Fully loaded formula 350s are pretty hard to come by these days. Sounds like a sweet find to me. What are you expecting out of a 20 year old car for $2400?

IMissMy86TA

How about just getting a real GTA that needs some parts (like correct steering wheel?)

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false

or this one

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

I don't think that first car is a real GTA. It doesn't have the correct badges, it only has a 120MPH speedo (I believe all TPI cars had 140MPH speedos) and it has the base model Firebird spoiler. It could be that the spoiler was swapped over to replace the deteriorating aero wing, but the gauge cluster swap is unlikely. Emblems of course may not have been reapplied if it was repainted. I noticed the seats aren't the Ultima seats. Didn't most if not all GTA's get the Ultimas? I could be wrong so someone should correct me if I am.

The second car looks good though.