Guys, the motor work, exhaust, tuning and such to my car is almost complete and I need to paint my car before the winter comes.
The body is straight with only a couple of spots at the door edges where there is about a 1/4 inch surface rust. I called Maaco and they wanted to charge me about $250/panel to strip the car. The paint is flaking off, and there are two large scratches on the sides from the front fender to the back where the car had been keyed by somebody. I want to keep the car the factory white. I was planning on prepping the car myself and taking it to a good shop to have it painted.
However, I don't know where to start with the prep. I havn't done this before. What is it that I need to get in order to remove any oil or grease from the surface before sanding the car? What kind and grid sand paper should I use on the metal parts and on the plastic parts? Would an orbital sander work for this, or do I need to get something alse? Finally, can I do this in my driveway since my car is too big for my garage?
I appologise for the long post and would like to thank you for taking the time to read it. Any help would be gratly appreciated.

 

$250??? holy crap! didn't realize this this trade was that expensive..

to remove the oil/grease - get a product that says it is a grease, tar, wax, remover (I reccomend PPG's DX330 or DX393), after washing it with the grease remover, wash the car with dish soap to remove any left over residue. (I also usually use a red scratch pad at instead of a rag or a sponge so the whole car is scuffed and ready for paint)

you don't need to strip it completely to bare metal, just scuff it (400 grit) and the paint will stick.

I'd sand any rust down to bare metal with 36-80 grit, bondo, sand the bondo with 36 then up it to 80 then sand it with 180 to feather the scratches out before primer. any chips Id feather out with 80 and then feather the 80 scratches out with 180 and prime (bondo if necessary)

the key mark I'd feather with 80 to bare metal, then feather with 180 and prime. (maybe a little bondo work if needed)

 

Thanks for the suggestions. This is very helpful. However, I am worried that the paint that is left will peal off and so would the new paint along with it. The current paint seems to be flaking off in sheets. Could I use a finer grade sand paper, lets say 120, to remove as much as possible from the flaking paint? I would be happy if I could get it down to the primer.

 

forgot to mention the flaking paint in my last post

you'll want to take the flaking panels to baremetal then use a metal etching primer, then a urthane primer. what Ill usually do is every panel that has paint failure will be taken to bare, and ones that aren't are just serviced as normal.

 

Thanks alot for your help. I know I am asking alot of questions, but I am new at this and want to do as good of a job as possible.
How many coats of etching primer do I need? Do I sand with 180 grid between coats? Also how many coats of eurethane primer do I need? I don't have a compressor and a spray gun, so I was thinking of using etching primer that comes in spray cans. Do you think that this will work well enough?
Do I wash the car after sanding, or do you recommend using a wet rug to remove dust? Thanks again for your help? I know I am asking a lot of what may be questions with obvious answers to you, but I am really a newbie at this.

 

eteching primer Id go 2 coats just to be safe, urthane I'd go 3 since this is a filler primer and can hide some of your body work's flaws.

if your taking the car to bare, just strip it then wipe it with a rag, then get a rag wet with acetone and wipe the car down.

but if you dont have a compressor are you just going to use rattlecans on the whole thing?

 

I dont use etching primer. I use epoxy primer. If you want to take the paint down to bare metal as I had done with my ws6, 80grit paper and elbow grease. I took the hood off, the fenders off and the hatch off. I sanded the quarters with 80grit. the hood fenders roof and doors I used paint stripper.
Any plastics I roughed up with 400grit. if the paint was chipping, I fethered it in, used a urethane putty and a razorblade to fill and called it done

I used epoxy primer. I filled all the dents with Bondo and welded in new metal where necessary. I used Martin Senour products exclusively o this project (avail at your Napa) The epoxy primer was a gallon and I put 3 coats on all metal surfaces, blocksanded it, 2 more coats of epoxy, a dry guide coat, more blocksanding and filling minor pits with 2 part epoxy "icing". Paint was GM 8555 black and the ground FX were gold metallic. The paint I used was Tec/Base (Napa's higher end paint) 2 wet coats to cover. All plastics I used Bulldog (brand) aresol spray on adhesion promoter with Martin Senour flex agent added to the paint for the plastics.

The clear I used was awesome M/S 15420 clear is very tough, very glossy, dries in 20mins and buffs like concrete. 90 bucks a sprayable gallon and it honestly is the best budget clear Ive ever used.

Cheap spraygun? look for the Astro brand. theyre extremely well made copies of 500 dollar sata and iwata spray guns...70 bucks and they'll work like horses. Spraygunworld.com is a good place, they have a 2week turnaround though, but you have a lot of work to do before that.
you'll also need 1/4 inch and half inch green painters tape, a LOT of newspaper, nitrile gloves, about 80 bucks in sandpaper (80grit, 120, 320, 400, 1000, 1500 (use all "P" grits) some mineral spirits, lacquer thinner to clean your gun, paint stripper, a handheld random orbit sander and an aircompressor. ALSO (no joke here) safety glasses and a NIOSH approved respirator with filters. I like the 3M one with the silicone facemask. getting a piece of rust in your eye sucks and clearcoating your eyeball is even worse. 2stage (base clear) is the only paint Id reccomend. ALL MODERN PAINTS ARE POISON waterbased, waterborne or not. A lot of cheaper paints are VOC exempt because they use acetone. stay away from these, dont play bench chemist and always wear a respirator when painting.

If you want to cheapen your situation, talk to your local tech school. they can only charge you a small percentage for profit, and these are the same kids that will be painting cars a the dealership in a year. you do all the body work, all the bondo, go to harbor freight and buy an HVLP gun with a 1.6mm tip, rent a compressor and spray your epoxy primer over the metal (after you prep the metal with 80grit so the primer sticks) scuff the plastic with 400, wash the plastic with soap n water, and wipe it down with mineral spirits....let everything dry overnight. Deliver it to the school, have them wipe the car down with wax and grease remover, and wipe the car with tack cloths and have them shoot the base/clear. youre done and you get to acquire some tools, learn how to paint, and get a nice car for a decent price. If you dont have a tech school, talk to the maaco about you priming the car and having them tape it off and paint it with decent paint. you'll still save a lot.
it only takes 2-3hrs to tape and paint a car....most of the bill is in the prep work...work you can do at home

If youre serious about painting, I reccomend autobody101.com

Nate

PS the reason I dont use etching primers is the etch itself, then you have to put a different primer on top of that usually anyway. direct to metal (DTM) epoxy primers are tougher, they dont have a corrosive in them like etching primers, theyre very water resistant and scratch resistant and cheaper.
Martin Senour and Kirker are 2 affordable places for epoxy primer (kirker is available from "Smart Shoppers" who also make a decent single stage paint too for budget jobs

 

My intentions are to prep the cam myself and then take it to a friend of mine's body shop to paint it. My friend owns a fairly high end body shop where they use some of the bets paints out there. He said that he would charge me about $1000 to $1500 to paint my car if he didn't have to pay his workers to prep it.
I am very much interested in applying the primer myself, but the reason why I brought up the spray can idea is that first I don't have a compressor (didn't think about ranting one) and second I have never used a spray gun before.
The rattle can seemed like a simpler approach. Does the primer need to be diluted to a certain viscosity before spraying it, or can I just buy a gallon of it and use it straight? Also, what size of a nozzle for the spray gun do I need to spray the primer with, should I decide to go down that road?
Thanks again for your help.

 

go to your local auto paint store or even a napa, they'll hook you up with the paint and reducers/hardners that are required.

I usually use anywhere from a 1.4mm tip to a 1.8mm tip for spraying primer.

 

wax & grease remover = lacquor thinner.

If the clear coat is flaking and peeling it needs to come off!! Otherwise scuff & shoot! If your on a budget I would recomend going to a sherwin williams automotive center and picking up the dimension series base coat / clear coat system. If you have a decent air compressor it can all be done in your garage. Its best if you remove all the panels and paint them then re-assemble. After sanding is done wipe it down with lacquor to remove the wax and grease (lacquor doesnt leave a residue). A cheap gun can be picked up off ebay. I got the Sharpe Finex3000 for something like $40. A 1.8 needle would be okey for primer but for the base and clear coat I would recomend something like a 1.4 or 1.3 for better atomization.

 

Most not any parts store will know how much and what you will need. Dont use rattle can primer..its a waste and is ****.

ITs better to go to metal..Start over fresh. If you go to bear metal use etching primer. I dont care who you are it needs to be on metal. Epoxy will work but it doesnt really BITE into the metal. It will be a real thin yellow ish green ish color. Thats what you want to apply after you have got it sanded. Also on your pain can it will tell you how many coats but usally 2 coats. Then prime it and sand it after its dry. Sand that with 320 and then go around 400 ish. Spies says you can spray sealer over 320 and then base and wont see scratches but I call bull ****. I like my **** to be slick..

Also like everyoen says..it woundt hurt to get a cheap hvlp gun..but make sure it says hvlp on it adn its a gravity fed one..it makes it soo much easyer and lays your product down good..

So basicly you need
a D/A Sander
a good sanding block
sandpaper..36grt to 400 ish..(make sure whoever sprays it seals it to help hide scrathes)
A paint gun
an air compressor..(big one to run your gun and sander)
Etching primer/activator..(gallon will be PLENTY for the hole car)
Primer/activator also a gallon..
Some bondo..
And for both of these if you they handle (Nason) brand get that.. its a little cheaper but I hear its good stuff..its Dupont witch now owns Speis Hecker..
A few beers and a lot of time and I think youll have it ready..

 

Im not one to argue, but etching primer is outdated and it takes some experience to use. Anyone can sand bare metal and dig out rust, or use a rust encapsulator. and THEN shoot a waterproof epoxy primer.A lot of guys use it and yeah I get the point of an acid etching into my fender but this means you have to do all of your filler work ontop of the etch and make sure its not still outgassing and pops your bondo off. The first time I used epoxy I was hooked. its a lot less of a pain in the *** to use, it sprays nice and its WATERPROOF (err well highly water resistant) you can spray it over cured filler, you can apply filler over it, blocksand it...or drive it in epoxy. in my opinion its the way to go. Not to mention its cheaper. If youre still curious, try autobody101.com theres still guys that use etch, and still guys who shoot acrylic enamel or lacquer. This is cool cuz you get a wide range of opinions and experience.

A LOT of people use nason or omni and they have coverage problems, to the point where you need to buy 2X the paint. I buy cheap epoxy and cheap clearcoat...but expensive color coat and that seems to be the way to go. If you cant find a sherwin williams automotive jobber; surprise, they make Martin Senour for NAPA. Transtar makes good paint and its reasonable. I really like their Euro clear.

Look into those Astro guns, you need a 1.4 or 1.6 tip for primer, and a 1.4 is fine for color and clear. Im known as TheAntiBoyd on the autobody101 forums...I invite any of you to stop by

Nate

 

You know saculia a visit to your local napa or paint store would really help you out.Thats what I did and your almost guaranteed to spend a few hours there learning everything from the different kinds of primers, Etching, 2k 3k etc... the different kinds of paints Base coat-clear coat, single stage etc. They should even tell you (if you ask) what to do about the way you should go about doing your bodywork. Although I am taking courses for bodywork at my highschool, I'm also in your exact same boat but a little bit ahead of you. I got my car all stripped down Bumpers gfx and stuff and have basically scuffed the car down in 400 ground the dents down, used a stud gun to remove them and filled them in with a little bit of bondo. another word of advice. When sanding don't sand the whole car down with 400 grit and go all the way to the metal in one spot and have paint in the other parts you've sanded. keep it consistent.


I usually use a 1.7 for my paint Bc/cc and a 1.5 for my 2k primer.



I Don't actually agree with you not using etching primer.. I use it all the time at my school and it works wonders on scratches in the metal. Epoxy is good at it some what if you lay it on thick but it takes alot of material.

 

OK guys, thanks for your help. I think I have decided what I will do, although I am still learning a bit about it. I also visited autobody101.com, and got some really good info from there. I think I will go the etching primer way, and then urethane primer. I can rent a 3.5 hp compressor for $29/day, which I think will be enough to power a 10 psi HVLP gun. Who knows, if this turns out OK I may paint the whole car. It might turn out to be a fun project.
Also can I drive the car after the primer has been applied, or do I have to go straight to painting?
Once again, thanks for all your help.

 

you can drive it in primer, but once its on there, you dont want to leave it in primer for to long. Its usually best to paint over the primer in 48-72 hours just because its still "sticky". If you wanted, You can drive it in primer, just not for to long. If you drive it in primer, When It gets wet or rains outside, the primer has a tendency to want to absorb the water and take it in under the paint. So what this means is it may want to start rusting after a while.

 

Boy thats a lot to read thru! So I didn't read it ... lol.
Did anyone mention stripping the peeling clearcoat off with a razorblade scraper and then just sanding the paint thats left and not taking it clear down to metal. If it's started to rust it has to go to metal. And I have to give you the advice I give everyone here. Check with the technical college in your area and see if they have an evening autobody hobby class. You can use their tools and get the help of the instructor when you need it.

 

I don't recommend taking the clear off with a razor blade.. Never heard of that.I usually just use 1k sandpaper wet.

 

Ive used a razor to take peeling clear off... MAJOR PITA, I'll always resort to sanding from now on... but some guys I know have even taken a blow gun and just blew sheets of clear off cars.

 

Back in the day ... when we were doing peelers at the shop we always used a razor blade. You could do a hood and roof in about 15 minutes. Then hit what was left with a DA. Kinda messy with all the long strips of clear all over, but it worked.

 

if you are taking the parts down to the metal, it really doesn't matter how you get the paint off, as long as you don't damage the metal. If you are going to use a razor blade, just make sure you don't scratch into your sheet metal. actually, a good paint remover might help with that. that's what i used on my hood. just make sure you brush it on in the same direction and tape up the surrounding parts!

 

A couple thing...1 lacquer thinner is not wax and grease remover...YES it does the job and YES lots of people use it, however beware. If it doesnt flash fast enough, it may cause solvent pop in your paint...which requires a repaint. Also, lacquer thinner is a "hot" solvent and wiping it on too heavy can soften your substrate, meaning you'll have to wait till it cures again. I use mineral spirits or DX330 wax and grease remover (ppg) If you buy wax/grease remover, make sure you buy one that has a reasonable flashtime for the temperatures youre working with.

MOST 2k primers you can drive the car after its cured. HOWEVER, make sure you read the PDS (Paint Data Sheet) and see what the "recoat window" is. Sometimes you can apply paint up to 72hrs once you wipe it with solvent and then a tack cloth. Sometimes you have wait months to paint the car and have to do like I did and scuff it with sandpaper, wipe with cleaner, tack it and shoot it. SOME primers you have to scuff, shoot a light even coat of primer, wait X minutes and shoot your paint. So PLEASE read the PDS, theyre almost always available online and definitely available from your paint store.

 

ppg is great stuff. if you are going to use any kind of paint materials, that's what i would use. on my car i used ppg primer, base coat, clear, and all the other stuff needed along the way, including laquer thinner and stripper. they are a little more pricy than some other companys but its well worth it. my clear can take quite a beating without scratching. i dropped a ratchet on my hood and it looked like nothing had ever happened. anyway, it's good stuff.

 

If your using stripper on a removable part ... REMOVE IT! It will save you many headaches down the road.

 

Guys,
Thanks alot for all of your suggestions. I am worried about using stripper. I don't know what the consequences would be if I get some of it on the plastic parts, such as bumper covers. I have been planning to sand the car down to bear metal. I don't think that it is going to be too hard. Who ever painted the car before did a terrible job and the paint is super thin. I tried hand sanding the small surface rust areas, and it came down really easy. Underneath the body looks brand spanking new. Not a spot of rust.
As far as brands are concerned, I have heard good things about Dupont. I will look into PPG as well. I basically want to pick a system that is good quality and works well together.
I have decided to buy a compressor, air gun, and all the necessary materials I need to get the job done. I plan on starting this in December. I will take some before and after pictures for comparacene and will share the results.
Thaks again for all your suggestions. This has been very helpful.