Fords88Bird

Adrian, excellent work, it kicks a$$ already. Later.

Sonymaster20

iTrader: (3)

Wow All that prep work is looking amazing.. Wow GREAT JOB. Its as smooth as glass. The Tri-zac system is amazing also.. Ive used it many a times and it works pretty much flawlessly and is dumby proof.. Man I cant wait to see your car finished..

Adrians91Z28

yea, I didnt want to use the trizact system at first since a DA sander and corners didnt sound good together

but its amazing, the foam interface pad works wonders and makes it really easy to use and effective

I was going for a glass like finish .. even though that picture looks good, I am waiting to sand it again and buff it monday to see how it looks

I will be using the 3M perfect-it system that has the three buffing compounds .. the last one being the blue ultrafina compound which people have told me works miracles for getting a perfect finish

only have 3 weeks left .. so I really need to get working on this thing .. haha .. doors and jambs are almost ready to paint

next will be fenders, then trunk / convertible top lids, then bumpers, then hood, then ground effects

TIMMYS89GTA

iTrader: (28)

Hey Adrian,I did the handsand 1500 on my black car.I can totally agree that it was ALOT! of work.I'm just kinda curious on this 3m trizad thing like(whats the cost for this system for a DIY'R) Sounds a ton easier than a bucket of soapy water and a few hours of rubbing to the point ones arm feels like its going to fall off!LOL!
I don't wanna clog your thread with tech stuff when peeps wanna see updates on this black beauty so,just message me if you know where and somewhat it would cost.I'm considering a sand and reclear on my car!

Adrians91Z28

yea .. I could go on for pages about different things ive learned over the last year at college about paint / body work

if anyone has questions just shoot me a message ..

Iroczracer

I have to agree with everyone, that looks amazing. Starting to work on mine, maybe I should have took auto collision in school. You defiantly inspired me if it turns out 1/2 as good as yours, it would make me a happy guy..

Adrians91Z28

its really not that hard to do .. just takes time (and alot of it)

my best advice is patience, and second best would be if you dont know how to do something ask around or use the internet

you should easily be able to achieve a paint job close to mine as long as you take your time and do it right (dont rush through and skip stuff)

that kid with the dodge neon got his whole car painted in the time it took me to block out the rear quarter panels .. now it looks OK, the paint is good and slick b/c I painted it .. but the body work was crap, I can point out every dent he fixed

he's going to be wondering why mine is like glass and his is just "black"

then again my clear coat is going to cost more than his whole paint job

Iroczracer

Are you using an epoxy primmer with a primmer sealer? Guess the paint is base coat-clear coat..

Adrians91Z28

nope .. just using a 2K primer, blocking it, another coat of 2K primer, blocking it, wetsand it, then base / clear

with 4 coats of base, and 5 coats of clear .. theres really no point of a sealer, dont want my mil thickness to be too thick otherwise the paint will just start cracking up .. and that wouldnt be good

was going to seal it, but both the teacher and sherwin williams guy said its not necessary if you got plenty of primer on there and are going to put plenty of base coats on it

Iroczracer

The 2k would be good to us e on bare metal?

Adrians91Z28

oh sorry ..

left it out that I put etching primer on any bare metal spots, before and after blocking the 2K primer

I think you "can" put 2k on bare metal, but just to be safe I'd put a coat of etching primer on first .. you could just do an epoxy primer since it would be alot stronger than 2K, but have fun blocking that stuff .. haha

Iroczracer

I bean removing all the waterborne paint form the car with eastwood stripping disk. May have made more work for myself than necessary, but did not want to take the risk of it lifting.. My plan is to use self etching, then sealer, then 2k primmer, followed by a base coat clear coat... Like I said I'm no paint guy, actually took auto mechanic classes, and work as a mechanic for years.. Thanks for you input and help!!

Adrians91Z28

I just used a "mud hog" or "bondo eater" with some 80grit to eat off my old paint

you can prime over the old paint and it wont lift, its only when you base over clear that the clear might lift (if the clear is newish) .. I wouldnt worry about old paint lifting

but how does your car have waterborne paint on it?

Iroczracer

From what I can read about it came form Van Nunes CA, EPA regulations. Whenever use to wax it the paint would stain up the rag.

Adrians91Z28

???

im confused ..

is it the original paint?

I highly doubt the original paint would be waterborne, even waterborne still has a basecoat / clearcoat

waterborne works exactly the same as standard basecoat / clearcoat except it uses water instead of a solvent .. and it requires some modifications to the paint booth (fans on ceiling of the booth)


plus its a new technology and just recently used in new cars (my dads chevy hhr uses waterborne paint .. I had to fix a dent couple months back)

Fords88Bird

Yeah, Rad is correct about the waterborne(base) paint on his '89, I've got an '88 Bird with orig. paint also and it just flakes off from time to time. Apparently all cars painted for a few years at the Van Nuys, CA plant had some sorry form of waterborne paint because of EPA and they never held up. I believe most late 80's GM cars painted on west coast had inferior paint compared to the east coast painted ones which were solvent based. Later.

Adrians91Z28

well damn .. didnt think they were using it back then

as for sanding it off .. shouldnt be any different from sanding off solvent based paint

just take some 40 or 80 grit to it on a DA .. and it will all be off in no time

Iroczracer

Not sure of the year GM started using that either, I found the info on this site. I have had problems with the sand paper just gumming up with 80 grit. Found those Eastwood cleaning disk, they take it off like nothing. Leaves a 180 grit comparable finish.


Fords88Bird

Due you feel save posting on here, using the F word...
That is one reason mine is getting made over...The paint has faded and looks like a white red or pink red. So with everyones help hope to change that soon...Thanks

Adrians91Z28

OK .. got to school and started sanding on the 5 coats of fresh clear

got them wetsanded with 1500, then 3000



looked like that

then took the wool pad and some 3m rubbing compound and started buffing .. the left side was partly done and right side untouched



then took the black foam pad and machine polish .. basically doing the same as the rubbing compound .. getting the clear warm to "melt" it and cut it smooth

then the blue pad came out with the ultrafine machine polish .. but doesnt take long with this stuff, dont buff it dry .. leave it wet then wipe it off with a microfiber cloth











thats inside, I'm waiting to see what it looks like in the sun (was dark when I finished buffing)

jrhaus76

Forgive my ignorance to painting but... why are you painting it piece by piece? Wouldn't it make more sense to paint everything at once? I realize you may not have time for that but it doesn't make sense to me. I mean you have all that cleaning of the gun and everything everytime you paint or prime or clear??? Plus you may have a matching problem and the conditions could be different. It does look like you have a nice paint booth to work in so I am guessing you could countrol the conditions (temp, humidity) pretty well.

I don't know alot (or anything ) about painting but it seems like this is not the logical way to go about it. Don't you have to worry about overspray on the completed stuff when you paint the rest?

Don't get me wrong, the car looks awesome... I can't wait to see it when its all done and put back together...

TIMMYS89GTA

iTrader: (28)

lookin sweet and slick Adrian!I Like the outcome of the polishing/buffing.
I got pretty similar results on my car when I w/s buffed my paint.
Took a bit more work than that 3m kit you have but nonetheless it still looks slick 1 year later and probably less than half the cost for a diy'er than the 3m kit.I will be following the completion of your car and just to let you know,don't think I could trade the orange beast for black beauty anymore either since I'm getting new upholstery installed!

Adrians91Z28

yea, couldnt trade this for anything right now .. way to many hours and $$$ put into it to just let her go .. but maybe later i'll part with it if the price is right .. haha


as for painting panel by panel .. Ive gotten that question by ALOT of people, so your not the first to point it out that it could cause some trouble ..

BUT .. its black .. black and white are the easiest colors to "match" .. especially since they dont have metallics or pearls in them and mine is just a straight jet black with a slight bit of red shade blue in it

I'm painting it in a booth so temp. is exactly the same whenever I go in there .. like to keep it around 65 to 70 degrees (65 for clear so it flows out nice, just gotta be good or it'll run )

as for overspray .. there wont be any b/c parts will be done seperately then bolted back on the car .. only chance of overspray would be on the doors or fenders (which will be painted on the car, probably at the same time) .. but a good tape job will insure of no overspray

and if it does get on the buffed surface .. just buff it again and its back to normal ..

and I dont have to worry about any difference in the panels since there all getting wetsanded and buffed

some DA took a paper towel to a quarter panel today to "wipe off the dust" and put some marks in it ..so I'll have to take the ultrafine to it again later .. got 5 coats of clear so I could buff all year long and still have plenty left to shine

Adrians91Z28

been working my butt off all week ..

got the body done (quarters, all jams, and windshield A-Pillar)

both the convertible lid and trunk lid (bottom and top) .. doors are jammed out, and the bottom of the hood is painted

got a new windshield put in today, Its looking really sick with the black paint and the convertible top

bad news is that somehow I'm using huge amounts of paint on this thing .. guess the panels are bigger than they look and im jamming everything out

so I'll have to buy atleast another 1/2 gallon of black and gallon of clear .. shouldnt be more than another $200

I'm graduating this quarter, so it HAS to be done by december 17th .. should be done though, im on track .. going to be close but should be alright on time

its starting to run really rough though, dont know why .. but it sounds like its missing a few cylinders .. its getting cold here, and I partly tuned it in the summer so that might have something to do with it

or the plugs could be fouled up from starting and stopping so much in the shop





picture isnt that great .. but I got my dashpad in, looks really good except for the slat missing out of one of the speaker holes (might take one out of my old pad and glue it in or something)

TIMMYS89GTA

iTrader: (28)

dude!someone stole your friggin' doors!!LOL!
Yeah,paint runs out fast when you start doing jams and underhoods.
Lookin slick as frog hair though!LOL!

Adrians91Z28

haha .. someone stole my hood, doors, ground affects, bumpers, trunk lid, convertible lid, door panels, interior trim, etc

drove it a little the other day behind the college (when it was running right ) and it was fast as hell to 20mph

TIMMYS89GTA

iTrader: (28)

umm,looks to me then that someone(ADRIAN) took the weight reduction thread a little over the top! HAHAHA!!!
just kidding man,car probably just giving you fits for leaving her sit for so long after all the engine work.Get her back together and give her hell for a day and Black Beauty will prob. clean her act up.

Adrians91Z28

yea .. youre probably right ..


she's on her period

highly doubt anything is wrong with her, theres only 3000 miles on her and I built it .. so yea .. do need to change the oil though and hook the laptop up just to check out a few #'s

she might just need slight tweaking on the warm idle for this cold weather .. shouldnt be to hard to mess with the fuel tables for below 1200 rpm

TIMMYS89GTA

iTrader: (28)

yeah,these girls can be touchy/tempermental!LOL!
Wish you were closer to me!I might need some tuning help myself and have noone nearby to turn to.Check out my thread in the engine swap board
305 is out l98 vette?? and see what I'm talking about.
Getting the insurance and registration tommorrow so,we'll see how she runs on the street!She hasn't left the garage in over a year!

tony_cogliandro

iTrader: (3)

that cluster is sick. does it come with gm plug in's or do you have to figure it out?

Adrians91Z28

no, it doesnt "plug in" .. its called a "direct replacement" by nordskog

BUT

in no way would I consider it a direct replacement ..

the cluster comes as a circuit board with led's on it .. and a smoked piece of plexiglass

so you have to get the stock gauge cradle, take out the stock gauges, grind on it a little, and glue in the new digital board .. then I spliced the wires in the back .. so if someone wanted to put a stock cluster in, they would just have to pull out my digital one and clip in a stock one

I like them alot compared to the stock gauges (mine didnt work and gm wanted $600 to fix them) .. think the nordskog ones are $500 now, and they only make them once in december b/c of the low demand

TIMMYS89GTA

iTrader: (28)

any updates Adrian?

Adrians91Z28

yep ..

this week we only had 2 days ..

so I got the doors back on and working like new doors .. they shut perfectly now

also got a new passenger fender which turned out to be a bitch .. it was in really good condition off of a t-top camaro, pretty sure its a reproduction part

and its a basic rule in collision work that repro. or aftermarket parts DO NOT FIT at all .. my worst nightmares came true

first, the convertible and normal camaro fenders are different b/c of the extra frame rails .. the regular camaro fender wraps underneath near the drivers door

so I had to cut off about 4 inches, and weld on the bracket/ support that I cut off of the old fender

and then the gap between the door and fender was AWFULL .. so I ended up tracing the shape of the original fender and cutting the new fender to fit

which took up a day of work, but turned out really good .. got pics on my phone which I'll get put up soon if there any good

wont be working on it till next monday, so this post my end up a couple pages back for a little while .. haha

oh and also got both front fenders in primer .. so next monday will be blocking / priming / blocking / wetsanding .. hopefully there wont be too much body works to get them ready for paint

I did see a few tiny dings in the two fenders .. and a small crease in one (think it was the drivers)

then I only got 10 days left to get the bumpers, hood, doors, and fenders painted .. then put it all back together

TIMMYS89GTA

iTrader: (28)

well,progress sounds good other than the fender issues!
I tried an aftermarket fender on my car and the moment I took it out of the box and just set it in place on the car there was a huge gap between the fender/door!I was pretty ticked off!
Pulled it back off and trashed it.
I would never go through as much trouble as you did to MAKE it fit.
I just don't have enough patience for that!LOL!
and yes,new pics of black beauty is a must.

Adrians91Z28

ok, pics didnt turn out half bad for a camera phone

first pic - you can see how the gap at the top is almost touching and its a big gap at the bottom

I tried all sorts of shimming, bending, etc to try and get that gap to fit .. but nothing would do it

so the tape is the line that I traced with paper from the old fender .. the bottom was fine compared to the original fender, but the top was way off







the second pic is with the passenger side mocked up and fender is in etching primer whilst I was fixing the gap problems before primer





third pic is after I cut the gap, forgot to take pictures after that .. but I ended up making the gap perfect by welding up the edge and the bracing on the back of the fender that seperated when I cut it .. then re shaped it so it was close to perfect



then a little bit of metal glaze to get rid of a VERY slight warp from welding the edge and it was good for primer


fourth pic is what needs to be in my camaro .. hahah, went to summit the other day and they've had this motor sitting in the entrance for a couple months now .. guy at the counter said it only takes about $10K to build it iirc

19CAMARO85

iTrader: (5)

hey man watching you build this thing makes me feel good about restoring mine while im in college. I to am in auto body repair and i plan on restoring my iroc-z. Seeing the work you do makes me want to get even better at it. Our shop isn't as bit but we have a similar booth, the same fram rack. Its a Chief right? Has the 3 towers and the aux. tower on the back. I to want to change paint colors. Personally i liked the blue but the black is great to. Was ur car Quasar Blue? That is the color that i want to paint mine. Keep updating man you are inspiring me alot just from watching ur retoration. Happy Thanksgiving everyone -Matt

Adrians91Z28

just some advice ..

IF you are going to paint your car in college / body shop class

paint a bunch of parts, or other peoples cars first and get REALLY comfortable with spraying paint and doing body work / repairs

I've painted probably over 10 complete cars, and countless parts (bumpers, fenders, hoods, etc)

lately there has been a lot of new kids that come in and say "I want to paint my car" .. then they have the body work done in a week .. tape it up in 30 minutes .. and paint it with little to no experience

then once they get it untaped and take it outside, they wonder why theres overspray on everything, dry spots in the clear, runs in the clear, runs in the base , and they can see the dents better than before

its taken me about 8 weeks to get this far, so good stuff takes time ..

so learn all the basics, get comfortable with spraying, then take your time when it comes down to doing your car and it should look just as good as mine

19CAMARO85

iTrader: (5)

thanks man, yea i want to paint several before mine. Im also wanting to paint mine metallic so its a little harder. But i definatly will work on ALOT of stuff before mine lol -Matt

Adrians91Z28

yea, metallics are "harder"

but the key to metallics are to find out how they like to be sprayed

some metallics like to be sprayed just like a solid base (somewhat of a wet coat) and others like to be "dusted" on otherwise they come out all blotchy and ugly looking

just to be safe I always just dust them on in nice even coats .. then they come out perfect every time

If you have access to a set of Iwata guns ... ive found them really easy to use, for clear and metallics

19CAMARO85

iTrader: (5)

i think our show is going to be buying one here soon actually. I have been painting with a Binks. I have sprayed a little of Viper blue metallic and that went ok not so great but that was my first job. But i re did it and it turned out pretty good the second time. Thanks for the advise and if i need anything ill ask ya man -Matt

Sonymaster20

iTrader: (3)

Actually I have an Iwatta gun And I have to say there pretty dang good. I have to agree with how Adrian paints metallics by dusting it on there. Instead of putting on good sized coats. IMO It comes out alot better

Adrians91Z28

yep .. Iwata's are pretty much the best gun money can buy right now, and really easy to use (compared to others like 3m, devilbliss, etc)


as for my camaro .. its not going to be done this quarter at school .. got six days left and its not halfway done with paint

took all week to do the front suspension, the front springs were a huge PITA to do

no spring compressors would work in the tight place, they kept jumping off the spring (hurt my finger on one of them slightly) .. and that really long spring has to go in 9.5" space .. ?????

eventually figured out we can bolt up the ball joint, put the spring in and jack up the a-arm with two jacks and compress the spring untill it bolts up to the frame

but now my suspension is completely new, cleaned up and painted, and rides like a new car (nice and tight) .. and all the steering parts are greased up with new grease

I'll get pictures up soon, got the fenders in primer and fitting good

so hopefully next week I'll haul butt with the paint .. but I'm not going to rush it .. if anything causes problems I'll fix it right and just wait till january to finish it

Adrians91Z28

ok .. heres the pictures ..

used my cell phone camera .. so kinda squint your eyes and there perfect

first two are when I dropped the a-arms, springs, sway bar, and steering tie-rods





then I cleaned everything up, painted it with either undercoating or high heat black .. put in new a-arm ball joints, and full poly bushings .. the struts only have 2500 or so miles on them

then I also made my new thing for the radiator that forces air up to it .. a friend cut me out a piece of painted steel to the right size .. and then a couple cuts and holes later .. DONE







oh also .. dont know if anyone noticed or not .. the reproduction passenger fender I bought has no antenna hole .. PERFECT

dont have to shave it now

Adrians91Z28

got the doors painted today

looks really good now, just need to wetsand them tomorrow and put three more coats of clear on them

then its on to the fenders, probably will get them blocked and reprimed tomorrow also

i'll get some pics up soon ...

OHHH ..

found out why it has been running really rich / rough lately .. ohmed out the injectors and one of them ohm's out at 6 instead of 17 like the rest of them

I was wondering, do ya'll think I should just replace that stock 19# injector ... or replace them all with some bigger ones since the motor is built a little (cam / heads / intake / exhaust / etc)

if so, what brand and size (summit has acccel 24#'s for $280 a set)

Adrians91Z28

doors are blocked / wetsanded .. not painted yet, even thought they shine a little



doors painted (its STRAIGHT, the ripples are a reflection of trees .. haha) kinda got me at first



bumper is primed .. just needs wetsanding and painting

MYZ28NH

Wow, just read this thread from the beginning. Like watching a movie and looking forward to the big finish with pictures of the finished car....just to reach a "to be continued"...LOL Oh well. I have a blue 91 as well. Wish it was a darker blue like your car at the beginning. Always been a fan of the black as well.

Wanna come up to NH and help me go through my Z? When your done with mine you could travel the country restoring Z28's everywhere.... meet people....live in all parts of the country....Ha Ha There Z's everywhere that need you. Anyway nice job. Wish I had the patience for such things. Mike

Bullydawg

iTrader: (7)

That looks great! I really want a Convertible thirdgen. It would be sooo much fun to have one as a DD. Black sure does look good on yours. Also, how many cars have you painted in the past?

Adrians91Z28

yep .. I must say my Z28 is looking pretty darn good .. the best paint job ive done yet

its not "flawless" like I wanted it to be .. but I think its just me b/c everyone that walks by when the doors are open on shop says it looks REALLY good ..

as for how many cars ive painted .. ummmmmm .. well its been one year of college, and im in the paint booth ALOT .. so I really have no clue

if I had to put a number to it .. I have painted probably about 5 complete cars, and 4 full size trucks (chevy 1500, ford 150's, expeditions, etc)

and countless parts like bumpers, fenders, quarter panels, etc

.................................................

no lack of experience in the paint booth here, im only 18 but can throw down some paint


kinda wish I had waited a couple months to paint the camaro though, PPG has started to match the Sherwin William paint prices for the college .. pissed me off b/c ppg is ALOT better paint for the price I'm paying

also the devilbiss rep. came by today with a new gun they got .. OOOOOOOOH MAN .. it makes an IWATA look bad, couldnt believe it myself untill I sprayed a bumper

im ordering me up one of those new guns to do my bumpers and ground effects since I wont be sanding / buffing those parts .. so they need to be super slick when I spray them so they match the body

Iroczracer

Yep still looking good!!! Not made a lot of progress on mine, being Christmas and all. My fenders are just like yours, wished you had a pic of the mods you made. Just taking time on mine to take everything off, still may have someone paint it. But seeing how my garage roof needs to be replaced, may take longer

Iroczracer

What do you think of the Single-Stage Premium Acrylic Urethane Paints?? I have a friend that painted his 82 with this, in a burn your eyes yellow. It has great shine to it, but he did not use the optional clear..

Adrians91Z28

sorry .. dont have any experience with single stage paints

all I know is what the sherwin williams guy has told me ... you put it on EXACTLY how you want it to look

so say you spray it wet and shiny .. it will look that way when it dries .. where as you spray it dry and dull .. it will be dry and dull

never sprayed it, and kinda dont want to .. I'd stick with basecoat / clearcoat any day b/c you get the protection you need and it wont fade as fast as single stage

ive also heard of people clearing single stage, but I'd find a auto paint store and ask them .. such as ppg, sherwin williams, etc