campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Ok, I've read all the posts and stuff about painting, and eventually I'd like to take my car to a pro who can hit it with a fresh coat of paint all over. But for now, I can't afford that. When I actually take the whole car to get painted, I want it done right. But...

I have some rather serious rust issues that I think should be dealt with prior to that, especially around the wheel wells. My issues are around the rear wheel wells and quarter panels, chipping paint on the rear bumper, and chipping/fading paint on the roof that is just barely beginning to see the beginnings of surface rust. Everything that I didn't just mention has recently been replaced, and has decent paint on it.

What I'd like to do, is to take care of the rust, and then repaint those sections of the car. I know the paint won't match the rest of the car perfectly, but is there any way I can do this without spending a ton of money that won't look terrible (horribly bad mismatch, really severe orange peel, etc). Again, I know its not the "ideal" option, but I'd like to fix the rust and drive it around without it being an eyesore while I'm still saving money for a real paint job.

I do have an air compressor, so I could buy a cheap/semi-cheap sprayer that'd be better than rattle can to do the work with, but I don't know. Any recommendations?

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

There really isn't any such thing as a "temporary" paint solution. Anything you spray on it now will just have to come off when you go to get it painted for real. Which means it will cost more since probably 70% of the cost of a paint job is in the labor. You should definitely take care of the rust though before it becomes a major problem. If it's small areas, you can usually pick up a can of that color-match stuff at your local auto parts store and primer and paint over the rust repairs. That would probably be your best bet. If you need large areas painted(like the entire roof) then your probably better off just primering it and waiting till you can paint the whole car. This is assuming your planning on painting the whole thing in the near future. Say 6 months to a year or 2. Of course if your painting it in the next 6 months, you might as well wait till then to fix the rust and send it right in to paint.

Using a spray gun and an air compressor is the right way to paint it, but till you pay for the primer, paint, and reducer you might as well paint the whole car yourself.

Any orange peel, fisheyes, etc are almost always the result of a poor surface being painted. They can always be sanded out and repainted, its just more work. As far as matching the colors, the best way to do that is have a paint shop mix up the correct color, but again, you might as well get enough to paint the entire car at that point. You can get close enough with the color match rattlecans in the parts stores unless your paint is extremely faded.

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Well my hope is that I can get away with doing a "temporary" job that'll last long enough to get the motor and drivetrain replaced. I can do all the labor I need for prep work for paint, I just can't spend alot.

So lets pretend I pick up the paint gun that goes onto the air compressor (saw one for $50 at the auto parts store) and then the appropriate paint. Assuming I prep the surface correctly, do I stand the chance of getting a decent looking layer of paint down? It'd be nice to put some paint on there that'd look at least decent for the next year or two while I do other things to the car and get money saved up.

Batass

Sure, you could do it yourself. You may as well just paint the whole car. The hardest part is the prep and taping anyway. First you need a decent gun, a water filter for your compressor, and a relatively dust free environment. Wet the floor to keep the dust down, don't sweep, it'll just make it airborn. Cleanliness is most important.

Single stage paint is cheap and easy, but I don't like it. I thought it was hard to fix any whoops.

Do a basecoat. If you have any nasty spots, you can sand them down, then scuff the car again, repaint any hard sanded spots, then clearcoat. You can sand out minor imperfections in the clear. If you end up sanding through the clear to fix a run or such, reclear the whole area to edges of the metal or creases, so that it won't be noticeable.

Thats it in a nutshell, but I would do some more reading on the internet to get some more detail. Its all about the details. A local bodyshop can provide the paint, and give you good instructions on mixing and flash times and such.

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

Have you ever spray painted anything? If you can spray paint model cars, or other small, oddly shaped things then you should be ok. Ditto if you have any experience airbrushing. Its the same process, just on a bigger scale. If you haven't done any of those things, you may want to practice on a scrap fender or piece of plywood first. Once you get the paint mixed and the air pressure set, its all in making sure you keep a constant speed and distance from the object being painted.

Generally, when I spray things, I do it in this order: Inside corners, Outside corners, Horizontal areas, Vertical areas. Thats just me though, but it seems to help eliminate runs or sags because it prevents me from going back over the transition areas and accidentally laying too thick of a coat.

The biggest thing to remember is that multiple light coats result in a much, much better paint job than one or two thick coats.

Batass (love that username btw) hit it right on. I would have put "Cleanliness is most important" in large, bold type, but thats me.

Batass

The single stage stuff I used, had to be sprayed on thick, at the verge of running to look good. It wouldnt sand and buff nice. Could've been the cheap german paint too.?

Yea, cleanliness and a good scuff job. I think we used a lint-free cloth and acetone to do the final cleaning in the body shop I used to work at.

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

I've never sprayed with any real seriousness. It's all been rattle can stuff. Usually I can get paint down without runs, its just the orange peel that is usually outstandingly bad. So if I'm getting you guys correctly:
1) repair, clean surface
2) primer
3) basecoat
4) wetsand & re apply base coat as neccissary
5) topcoat layers (any sanding here?)
6) clearcoat

Right?

And can I do this without getting a ton of expensive equipment? For instance, is a sprayer in the $50 range decent enough?

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

If you want it to be really smooth & glossy, then wetsand after the basecoat and the first coat of clear. Then clear again and buff once the clear has cured fully. There is no "topcoat" in a basecoat-clearcoat type of paint. As far as equipment, that sprayer will probably be fine, but more details than the price would be needed to be sure. Also, what is the setup on your air compressor?? How big is the tank, how fast does it refill? Do you have a drier installed on the air hose(required)? How about a tool lubricator(bad)?

There are different types of spray guns, and they have different air requirements. You'll need one that matches the output of your air compressor.

Orange peel generally comes from oil/dirt on the surface being painted, IIRC. A friend of mine has a neat little tool, not sure of the actual name, but its a small(maybe 1") cube that has a razor blade on the bottom. Its used to "shave" runs out of paint jobs. Much faster than sanding them out. If your getting runs your probably not moving the spray can fast enough or holding it too close(at least those are my usual problems). You want to hold it far enough back that the spray cloud is just starting to dissipate when it hits the surface.

I almost forgot, you need LOTS of ventilation, and a respirator. Not one of those cheap paper dust masks, a good filter mask. The kind with the cartridges on the sides. ANYTHING and EVERYTHING in the garage/shop/wherever WILL get paint on it if you don't cover/mask it. Same goes for the car.

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Ok. I'm starting to get the idea now. Two more questions if you guys don't mind:

In the areas of the car that the paint is still good (some parts of my car actually have fresh paint on them, as they came off another car that was recently painted) how do I need to prep those areas? Do I need to strip all the paint off of them too, or can I just clean, then paint over?

Also, the hood of the car has a really cool (i think anyways) firebird on it that is painted on, under the clearcoat (no its not a decal). Is there anyway to preserve this without ending up with nasty paint lines from masking around it?

88iroc52387

iTrader: (2)

don't mask around it the more tape ridges you have the more paint lines you will have and they chip very quickly... Found out the hard way. Practice on something else if you can. I painted my girlfriends old! cavalier for fun and to learn . As soon as i get the time to weld some panels on my truck im gonna paint that and then paint my junk tempo. If all goes well i'll give the iroc a try. But i highly recommend painting something junk worthy to try it out although after many re-sands i did get my g/f cavy pretty nice. Everybody has a friend with the POS (used to always be me) just ask them to let you paint it.

Batass

I forgot about that nifty little tool! (run scraper). You will almost always have orange peel. Thats what wet sanding and buffing fix. The better your gun is setup, air pressure spot on, distance, speed, all effect how much you will have. We never did the in between sanding, and all our cars came out great. We used to fix up lease audis and vw's for a large auto auction.

Whenever you mask something, dont use the hard line of the tape. Instead, roll the tape over so the edge is a curve. Pull as much of the tape off that you can after 15 min or so of painting. This will let prevent a lot of hard lines and peeling.

As far as the hood.....how good is the paint on the hood? Is it faded? You could probably get away with just sanding it, and clearing it. I'd do a good wet sand with 400 grit. You just want to scuff it and get rid of the very top old layer. It doesnt take much at all. On black cars with no metallic, we just used green scrubby pads if the paint was in good shape.

If the paint on the hood isnt in bad shape, after you paint the car, wait a day, wet sand it (1000 grit usually), and buff it, you probably wont be able to notice that you didnt color the hood.

STEEL

http://rollyourcar.com/default.aspx

Just check it out, there has been alot of debate on it around here, but I have seen some amazing results.

I plan to do this to my hood in the near future.

Batass

I can't believe it looks good, but I've seen weirder things. Sounds like a real PITA.

STEEL

It sounds like you save your money by sacrificing your time. If your willing to do all the extra sanding then you can do it all for under $100.

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

The areas where the paint is good, all you need to do is give it a good wetsanding, I would use 600 or 800 on them. On whole car(except the hood) I would lightly spray it with primer, any decent kind will do, rattlecan even. Then take your sandpaper and go over it again. This will show you any high spots in the original paint since those areas will sand off first.

I like that bird too actually. I always loved seeing that big old bird on the hood of firebirds. Makes me wish I had a firebird instead of a camaro sometimes. If you are painting the car the same color as the base color on the hood, I would let it go if the hood is otherwise in good shape. Maybe reclear it, but I'm not sure I would use something as aggressive as 400 grit. Using 800 or 1000 will take a lot longer, but you will have a much less chance of going through the clear and accidentally messing up the bird. If you are painting the car another color, I would seriously reconsider that. It will be a royal pain to mask and repaint around that bird and make it look right. Rolling the masking tape and taking it off as soon as possible will help, but thats a very difficult shape to tape off.

What I would suggest would be to tape over top the entire bird, then sand the whole hood till you can feel a lip all the way around the bird. Retape the bird so you don't have any junk stuck in the edges of the tape from the first sanding, paint the hood and pull the tape off and let it dry. Then wetsand the hood as normal, being careful over the bird to make sure its scuffed properly and that you get rid of any leftover ridge along the edge. Then clear the whole hood. That should get it close enough that you would have to actually run your fingers over it to detect any kind of ridge.

Sorry that got so long.

STEEL

Would you consider just buying another bird? Would most likely be easier to get the decal...

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

STEEL

There is a myth about the decals not looking as good, but I have seen a second gen that has one and its FANTASTIC.



The man that owns this car is named jim, I talk to him on myspace regularly. I cant help but think that the decal looks as amazing as any airbrush job I have ever seen.

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

I don't want to get rid of the bird, and I don't want a decal. Its hard to explain how cool this one is unless you see it in person, but it is unique (custom painted by the last owner) and I cannot get it again. The bird is not opaque, it was sprayed on lightly so that the black behind it shows through. But at the same time, the gold paint it is made from is really really intense.

How about this idea? The paint on the hood is less than a year old. How about lightly wetsanding, then dropping another layer of clear on the hood, and then skipping it for the rest of the paintjob? That way I don't have to deal with paintlines or anything like that. I'll just do my best to color match the hood. Good plan?

I do not plan on changing paint colors. The car is black, and it is staying black.

(And I'm not bashing decals, I just really don't want to get rid of the really cool custom paint that lies under the clear on my hood)

STEEL

Well, mismatched black with any amount of gloss will show. I wouldn't recommend it. Now, I think a black hood on a blue car looks cool, just IMO.

Trying to paint around the bird would be damn near impossible, so that is your best bet, but If can get a hold of the previous owner and ask what brand of paint he used, it would help.

88iroc52387

iTrader: (2)

if u can get a paint chip off your car possibly using a razor blade many shops can make you duplicates. I know theres a paint company a city or to over from me that has a shop that will match the paint if u can bring them in a small body piece( like a your side mirror) or a paint chip and can put it in the computer and look up the paint number for it or mix you some ppg to match.

FYRCHKN

I was going to temporarily paint my car so I could save up the few thousand $$$$'s to get it done. But, after the results I've gotten I think I'm going to just keep it the way it is.

Here's a picture from yesterday after I buffed out my hood. I just painted the whole car last week and now I'm on to the wet sand/buff. Rust-oleum mixed 60/40 with mineral spirits sprayed with my Wagner Power Painter. It looks alot better in person than it does in the pics. I'm amazed and impressed. And to think that I have less than $100 in the whole paint job that I did in my driveway.

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Thanks everyone, this is real encouraging. Alot of the people I've spoken to have basically said that if you want a decent paint job, be prepared to pony up 3-5 grand. And I'm hesitant to put that in this car, because it simply isn't worth it. If I can get away with doing it myself, and have a respectable result, I'll be very happy.

STEEL

Im glad to hear this, take lots of pictures for me

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

I bought a ingersol rand gun from lowes for 100 and I love it

you can paint with implement paint from rural king and get a gallon for 22 bucks

reduser 15

urethane clear and activator 80

gallon primer 50 bucks

laquer thinner gal 13

get your sandpaper from summit

instead of a roll of 80g get the 100g same price 50 more discs

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

And I just got the paint color and brand from the guy who painted the hood, so paint matching doesn't look to be a problem

STEEL

good luck!

bgood71

If you go to Paintworld.com and enter the factory paint code you can get a kit colored matched and custom mixed. The cheap kit contains: 1 large can paint,1 large can clear, sand paper(various grits), tape, and tack cloth....everything to do a good touch up job, for $30. I used it to touch up the bumpers, headlight covers and driv. mirror on my Flame Red Metallic(prone to bad fade) GTA.The paint matched very closely, and looks very good even witout doing the buffing yet.Just a thought if you are trying to put off a pro paint job for awhile.

Batass

Thats cheap! How much paint? Black is usually one of the cheapest colors...

tripingeorge3

paintforcars.com . $35 for a gallon of paint. get the sprayer, paint the whole car and be done with it. and everything will look uniform, no matching paint from fenders to hood.

jamon8

iTrader: (3)

are we talking about matching black

all you have to worry about is if it has metalics

bgood71

I just checked paint world.com and the kits are now $40 for the basic kit and the paint can is a 12.5oz spray can. Its a good alt. if you don't have an air compressor and paint gun .

campin1983

iTrader: (4)

Holy cow, the former owner of my car's body panels wasn't joking around when he painted the car. he said he used PPG OMNI jet black. I looked at the price... no joke. I think its running about $90 a gallon.