Randy82WS7

given how much and where the rust is in this rear QP do you think i have this pretty well marked out as to where to properly cut off this original QP skin ?



if not then where would you cut this rusted QP off at?

any tips/info/drawings would be great

i dont understand how it works when you overlap the replacement onto the car because it will offset the skin and be very noticeable at the very end of the car and also at the front of the QP along the rear vertical door edge

and plus how will the entire stock clean factory QP skin overlap the original body when its the exact same size ?

how do you overlap properly so this will be smooth ?

and what do i do at/around/with the fuel filler ? should i have the replacement skin include the filler hole too ?




thanks

1987camarosport

why wouldnt you just cut the panel strair up top like everyone else why do more work than needed see the above threds and you should have your answer...

Randy82WS7

yeah i saw that after i made this post

although it is always better to leave as much good metal on the car as possible

i dont see what would be wrong with cutting off only the rusted parts of the QP and then cutting those parts fro the replacement one


why wouldnt that work fine ?

whats the big difference ?

either way alot of leveling/filler work has to be done, regardless of where the replacement is lapped on the car at


please elaborate ?

thanks

jay92,85,79

iTrader: (1)

When do a 1/4 u want to cut were the stronger parts are at. Like were it bents down. So when u reweld it it will not warp as bad. If u cut it were u had it it would take alot of filler to make it stright.

You are cutting the car up does not matter if you cut out good metal cuz u have new new metal going in..
That best place to cut in a 1/4 is in the sail panel but u can not do it there cuz most likely u are getting 1/4 skins. So put them in were i made the read lines.

U can over lap the new one over the old metal( I do not like doing it this way but it works) WHEN u get the new panel u will see were to cut.. Cut out most of the old panel. Than take the new one and set it on the car. Now mark were u will be welding. So when u take it back off u will see a outline.trim off the rest of the metal leaveing about 16th of metal..Now the new 1/4 sould fit right over the old one.. Weld it up. grind welds, bondo ,prime,paint, I'm going to be doing two 1/4 skins on a 68 mustang this weekend (if the panels come in) I can take pics when i'm doing it.

Well was going to post a pic but its not working will try later

Randy82WS7

ok cool good info thanks

i am confused on where to cut it along the bottom/"rocker" part down there,

should i cut it off on the outer skin side of the skins pinchweld, or on the inner skin side of it ??

pics of you doing the
QP that youre about to do would be great, especially ones showing how to cut off the QP and with what tools, and also how to level down where the skins overlap
(thereplacement skin on the old original body skin)


and how to prevent horrible skin and filler buildup/bulging at the door frame opening ? this is one thing i cant see how to prevent when overlapping skins like this,

wont it be VERY noticeable that theres another skin on top of the original one- especially with the door shut ?? how do you hide it ??



thanks!

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

To reduce overlapping prolems, an overlapping tool can be helpful, in reducing alignment and filler usage.

I'm in no way endorsing THIS PARTICULAR ONE. Just googled it as an example.

Randy82WS7

hi there ok thanks

is this the same as a flanger tool ?

thanks

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Yep! It provides a mounting surface, and levels the new panel with the old one, at the same time. minimizing filler word.

Randy82WS7

ok thanks

the only problem i see is that even with a flanger you still have the problem of having another layer of metal on top of the original QP metal and so the same problem trying to smooth it all out without it being bulged out too far noticeably

see what i mean ?


im gonna have to wait to see pics of how to properly attach/overlap along the door opening(along the rear edge of the door)


thanks again

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

You flange the body DOWN, to a level BELOW the original surface. So, when you place the new metal on, it sits flush.


original->-----------l-------------<-new quarter metal
flange on original->l---

Make sense? I can make a jpeg illustrating it better, if needed.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

I went ahead an made one. Hope it helps. I color coded the descriptions to the parts drawing.

dtk132

Remember that when welding, it will easily warp your sheetmetal. make a beed no longer then 2 in, skip to other end and do that, going back and forth allowing the area to cool before doing another weld. Warping sucksalso i recomend using a good rust inhibiter like mort rust.. its works really good and starves the rust from oxygen so it prevents it from spreading in the future
----------
Remember that when welding, it will easily warp your sheetmetal. make a beed no longer then 2 in, skip to other end and do that, going back and forth allowing the area to cool before doing another weld. Warping sucksalso i recomend using a good rust inhibiter like mort rust.. its works really good and starves the rust from oxygen so it prevents it from spreading in the future.

Do this the RIGHT way, dont half a$$ it and say its good enough. And it sould last

dtk132

Also when all is done, spray the metal showing with etching primer.. not reg primer, it wont hold up as well as etching primer that is meant to be the first primer to stick to bare metal, then come back with your reg primer then paint.

Etching primer will also do a small bit in killing off little pinsize rust spots that was missed by the rust inhibitor.

Ricco

Why wouldnt you butt weld the new panel like it says in all the other threads you posted in?

Randy82WS7

someones gonna have to show a pic of this buttweld and where at that it should be performed in this particular repair process

im jut trying to figure out how youre supposed to magically hide another layer of metal - along the vertical door opening
and well also along the end of the bumper cover too



hmmm


thanks

Ricco

I've never done it before but like you i need to so am doing some research, from what i have seen, cut out the old panel along the lines where Jay posted, make the whole slightly smaller than the new panel, trim the new panel so that it matches that of the peice that has been cut out, clamp the new panel in place where the old one came out and start welding.. welding in 1 inch strips so as not to generate too much heat in each place....

Once you have finished welding, grind down the welds flush then fill with bondo where needed.. The rear of the panel shouldnt be a big deal since it will be covered by the bumper and tail lights... the hatch area (if you drill out the sport welds) will be covered by the hatch weatherstripping, the only bit to worry about is the sail panel and the door jam.. the door jam u should be able to cut on or near a corner to try and retain some structural integrity.

Does that sound about right? Like i said i have never done it before but plan on doing so when i get my hands on a welder and some sheetmetal

Cheers,
Richard.

CYARS92

Exactly like Ricco and I believe myself said, and if that doesn't make sense...

Hire someone, NOW! It's obvious you're not comprehending the process that everyone has been passing along and I'd hate to see you mess up so bad you lose interest in the car.

Hopefully Jay will put those skins on the Mustang and take pics for you, or else I'll have to go out and sand mine back down to the welds just to show you. Once you see how it's done correctly, you'll slap your head in amazement at how simple it is.

Ricco

Where did you get ur sheetmetal from? I need to get an entire floor and a passenger side rear quarter but i would really hate to have to pay hundreds of dollars in shipping... the floors are expensive enough!

I am trying to find a place locally that i can order from, there is a napa not far away, you think that will work? I would rather just pay sales tax rather than shipping....

dtk132

galvanized sheet metal wont rust as easily, so id go with that. You can buy the sheetmetal at any hardware store. Other things youll need
-mig welder
-etching primer, primer, and paint
-short strand fiberglass resign ( for those tiny pin size holes missed by welder... stronger than body filler)
-and a good quality body filler ( btw bondo is a brand name, and there not the only body filler out there, ever coat or ever lite is in my opinion probably better)
-ball peen hammer ( the one with the rounded surface)

cut out all the infected areas with rust with a cutting weel, and eye the size of the hole, cut a piece of new metal out about 2 in larger all the way around then what it is, so you have more to play with.. and tack in some of the spots where you can to get it to hold in place while you use a ballpeen hammer to form the metal, once its formed and as good as you can get it flush with the body's metal, weld her up, grind your welds, mix up some short strand and spread it over the missed areas, then your filler, and prime and paint your bare metal areas.
Remember to use ETCHING- Primer first.

Done this many times and im an auto body tech, i know what im talking about. It may suck at first, if it does you can always try again, you can play around with metal like clay, its just a little harder and more pain in the a$$.. its cheaper then bringing it to an auto body shop and youll learn something. Try it before you bring it to a shop.. if you have any questions pm me.

Ricco

What thickness sheet metal should be used?

cooltc2004

iTrader: (4)

I cant believe my eyes, Stephen, are you telling him to overlap the metal? Are you telling him to put the new metal on top of about an inch of old metal? I hope I misread that, because that is the absolute opposite of how its done. You don't overlap the metal, because in between the two pieces of metal is a place where water can sit, and eventually rust. What you do is take both sides of the metal your welding, bevel them, and weld in the bevel. This way, when you grind down the weld, you still have plenty of strength.

I am no way a professional here, just telling you what I've learned over the years.

Bull

iTrader: (5)

What do you mean by "bevel"?

I'd like to know as I gear up to learn how to use my MIG.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Yes...Overlap, as in flange, as in...the way the factory does things.

deadbird

The factory 'welds' are layered or overlapped only due to the fact a spot welder uses the existing metal as the filler. There is no filler material (ie: wire in the case of mig) being used.

Not much of anything factory is flanged. It is simply layered (overlapped) to make it easy to spot weld for production assembly purposes.

As for the original poster, this thread may interest you...
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/body...tom#post698611

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

But it amounts to the same thing....Layered sheetmetal for welding.

archemedes

a body shop will butt weld, the overlap welding works at the factory because they are spot welded under pressure in the middle of the overlap. the real issue is if you aren't an experienced welder buttwelding may be dificult

2fast4u92z

NO NO ALL WRONG! You are just making more work and more of a mess. Get a replacement panel and then line it up so the only seam is the one high up where the 1/4 moldes to the roof. just like the factory did.

What i am saying is use a spot weld remover and remove the whole 1/4. then the new one will just drop right on and weld up quick and clean!

archemedes

if you buy a full quarter it works, but most aftermarket replacements aren't full quarters. I like to do my seams just below or above body lines, I worked with another guy who would do just like the first pic.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Real world this seems to be a 6/half dozen thing.

I was always taught that any overlap will result in a thicker spot that will be noticeable, if nothing else when weather changes and it expands/contracts at a different rate than the surrounding area, so the only way that I’ve ever done it is by cutting, carefully fitting and welding, then grinding the weld till it’s even (not flat with the surface, just even), and carefully hammering it flat with a hammer and dolly to re stretch the shrunk steel that you got from the heat of the weld.

OTOH, there is an old school, “use a flanging tool to make a flange and then overlap the patch into the flange. I honestly don’t see how that’s going to work well, since youre stretching the metal when you’re cutting and flanging, and then shrinking it again when you weld it and the thicker flanged piece won’t lend itself to hammer stretching. And then there is the double thickness of metal.

Finally, there’s the “new” way to overlap that I’ve seen a number of shops that do quality work insist on (check out the serious autobody forums, or for example there have been a couple of articles on doing this on hot rod’s f-bomb). Their basic thing is that butt welds are almost never done well enough for it to be worth the effort of doing, and you can get more consistent results by cutting backing pieces, using a punch tool or some other method that doesn’t distort the metal to punch holes in the good, remaining sheet metal and spot weld the backer through the punched holes, creating a flange behind the panel around the damaged area and then set the repair patch in the flanged area and run a clean butt weld all the way around it (which is MUCH easier with the backer behind it).

Here:
http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/f...ody/index.html

Again, I’ve never tried this method, so I can’t give you input from experience, but my instinct is that again, hammering out the shrinkage would be difficult if not impossible, and that the overlapping metal would give a place for future rust to start.