Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LSX!)
#1902
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 599
Likes: 1
From: Long Island, NY
Car: 1992 z28
Engine: 383 LT1 in the works
Transmission: T-56 in the works
Axle/Gears: 3.73 in the works
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
Neil - I will be the first to admit but I am probably going to steal your idea for my LT1 swap in strengthening the strut towers.... question though.
I see you used rod ended connections - any particular reason other than just for the ability to remove and reinstall it at any time? I was planning on using round tubing with some sort of tabs welded to the endeds and bolted through the top of the strut towers.
I see you used rod ended connections - any particular reason other than just for the ability to remove and reinstall it at any time? I was planning on using round tubing with some sort of tabs welded to the endeds and bolted through the top of the strut towers.
#1903
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 888
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From: Houston, TX
Car: '87+'02 Z28
Engine: 454 LSX
Transmission: T-56, Viper output shaft
Axle/Gears: Strage 12-bolt 3.73:1
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
Yes, it should help for front to back forces. Alot of the aftermarket STB come with connects to the firewall. IMO, those rods are so small the firewall would not provide much added strength. Going to the frame as we have done, should make for a stronger brace.
#1904
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 888
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From: Houston, TX
Car: '87+'02 Z28
Engine: 454 LSX
Transmission: T-56, Viper output shaft
Axle/Gears: Strage 12-bolt 3.73:1
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
Neil - I will be the first to admit but I am probably going to steal your idea for my LT1 swap in strengthening the strut towers.... question though.
I see you used rod ended connections - any particular reason other than just for the ability to remove and reinstall it at any time? I was planning on using round tubing with some sort of tabs welded to the endeds and bolted through the top of the strut towers.
I see you used rod ended connections - any particular reason other than just for the ability to remove and reinstall it at any time? I was planning on using round tubing with some sort of tabs welded to the endeds and bolted through the top of the strut towers.
#1905
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Posts: 656
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From: Nashville, TN
Car: 91 Z28
Engine: Lt1
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3.70 auburn pro 9"
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
#1906
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,960
Likes: 59
From: Salt Lake City, Utah
Car: 1988 camaro "SS"/ 1991 305/T5
Engine: 383 LT1 in progress/LT1TBI 355 soon
Transmission: Probuilt 700R4 3600 stall/ T5
Axle/Gears: Moser axles, 3.42 Eaton Posi
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
#1907
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 569
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From: Illinois
Car: 98 Camaro Z28
Engine: 346 LS1
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3:43
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
what color of red is on that camaro on page 37??
#1911
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27
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From: Nashville, TN
Car: Restoring 85 IROC-Z, 89 5.0 notch
Engine: to be 383
Transmission: T-5 and T-5
Axle/Gears: 3.27in IROC and 3.55 in mustang
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
Flame Red http://www.freewebs.com/iroczman15/
#1912
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 27
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From: Nashville, TN
Car: Restoring 85 IROC-Z, 89 5.0 notch
Engine: to be 383
Transmission: T-5 and T-5
Axle/Gears: 3.27in IROC and 3.55 in mustang
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
#1913
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 569
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From: Illinois
Car: 98 Camaro Z28
Engine: 346 LS1
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3:43
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
Neil, this car makes me speachless. the color choice, engine choice, interior, and all the custom lil things you have done make this car unique in all aspects VERY VERY AWE INSPIRING! I am wanting to do an lsx swap but after looking at yours, just jealousy man lol very very talented. I am even happy just looking at pics of this bad boy man.
#1914
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,849
Likes: 296
From: NJ
Car: 1987 IROC-Z
Engine: 406 on N20 w/ EFI
Transmission: P.B. 700R4
Axle/Gears: 12 bolt w/ 3.91
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
neil... woah ur car is coming along amazing!! ooking back at my post on page 3 i can see how i doubted how well ur car would turn out..and man, all i can say is that has to be the best built 3rd gen i've ever seen to date. very nice. post more progress pics and vids when its on the road. what magazines do you plan on sending it into for a feature?
#1915
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 569
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From: Illinois
Car: 98 Camaro Z28
Engine: 346 LS1
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3:43
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
yes, if u were referring to my car as the red camaro on pg 3, the color is a dodge deep flame red. lots of colorsanding was done and extra coats of clear, any questions pm me or check my website
neil... woah ur car is coming along amazing!! ooking back at my post on page 3 i can see how i doubted how well ur car would turn out..and man, all i can say is that has to be the best built 3rd gen i've ever seen to date. very nice. post more progress pics and vids when its on the road. what magazines do you plan on sending it into for a feature?
neil... woah ur car is coming along amazing!! ooking back at my post on page 3 i can see how i doubted how well ur car would turn out..and man, all i can say is that has to be the best built 3rd gen i've ever seen to date. very nice. post more progress pics and vids when its on the road. what magazines do you plan on sending it into for a feature?
Hey neil i was think you should get a pic of your car with Kevin Brueggeman's 89 formula ls1 magnum charged sick looking would be a cool photo forced induction to naturally aspirated would be cool or this car in a mag would be sick as well man lol
Last edited by stoning_volcom; 02-07-2010 at 03:29 PM. Reason: CAUSE THIS CAR IS AWESOME!
#1916
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 569
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From: Illinois
Car: 98 Camaro Z28
Engine: 346 LS1
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3:43
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
Hey neil i forgot what kinda strut mounts are those you have, you had a spohn on first right? then switch to something else, which ones are they?
#1917
Thread Starter
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Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 888
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From: Houston, TX
Car: '87+'02 Z28
Engine: 454 LSX
Transmission: T-56, Viper output shaft
Axle/Gears: Strage 12-bolt 3.73:1
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
By the way, thanks for the nice comments!
#1918
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 569
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From: Illinois
Car: 98 Camaro Z28
Engine: 346 LS1
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3:43
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
yea yea lol i forgot the stock ones are called the strut mounts aftermarket caster/camber plates thanks neil. So you got any vids of this beast like complete? or still working out some of the kinks?
#1919
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Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 888
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From: Houston, TX
Car: '87+'02 Z28
Engine: 454 LSX
Transmission: T-56, Viper output shaft
Axle/Gears: Strage 12-bolt 3.73:1
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
I can't wait to get this thing on the street! It's so close I can smell the rubber now!
#1920
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From: Bertram (outside Austin), TX
Car: 87 GTA
Engine: L98
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: Dana M78 3.27 posi
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
Neil.....You have until June 26th to get the car road ready. That is when you can bring it to Austin & show it off at the Texas state gathering!
#1921
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 569
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From: Illinois
Car: 98 Camaro Z28
Engine: 346 LS1
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 3:43
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
No, no video of the car complete, though I do have a couple vids on Youtube of the engine at first start and a walk-around of the car. Let me know if you need the link, but it should be somewhere in the last couple of pages. I should have some pics to post soon of the airbox and completed fan shroud.
I can't wait to get this thing on the street! It's so close I can smell the rubber now!
I can't wait to get this thing on the street! It's so close I can smell the rubber now!
yea man i saw the vids i was just wondering bout the smelling rubber part ha well man the car is sick neil. I envy you, that car is the car i would see on the street and be like holy crap dont mess with that lol the thing sounds awesome man i am excited bout doing my ls1 swap in the near future. LSX 454 though god, everything in that car is amazing, when i start my swap you wouldnt mind if i taped into the brain of yours with question would ya? well if so not a big deal congrats on the car. keep us updated with some pics ( that would be nice lol ) and vids anything that goes on.
Last edited by stoning_volcom; 02-16-2010 at 08:59 PM.
#1923
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From: Olean NY USA
Car: 1985 Camaro Z28/1989 Pontiac Trans Am GTA
Engine: 305 tpi/350tpi
Transmission: 700r4
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
Updates needed asap.....
#1924
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,849
Likes: 296
From: NJ
Car: 1987 IROC-Z
Engine: 406 on N20 w/ EFI
Transmission: P.B. 700R4
Axle/Gears: 12 bolt w/ 3.91
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
....curious for an update if u have one....
#1925
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 70
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From: Home is La Joya Texas- right now Qatar Sand Box
Car: 91 Formula, 91 RS/SS, & 95 Cobra
Engine: TPI 305, LS1, & 5.0
Transmission: 700r4, 4l60e, & 4spd auto
Axle/Gears: 3.73, 3.73, & 3.73
Re: Phase I complete, now Phase II IROC restoration - on to the interior!
sweet set up bro i love the car its crazy time for some
i dont mean to be an azz
but my they scred you really bad on the head light set up 9xxbuxs thats alot bro i got mine for 200 low and high beams hids
cant wait to get home and get started on my car love the car bro
Last edited by vettsfan; 03-25-2010 at 08:45 PM.
#1926
Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 107
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From: Long Island, NY
Car: 84 Camaro
Engine: 350 punch out .060 to 360ci
Transmission: 700R4 worked
Axle/Gears: 410 Posi
Re: Phase I complete, now Phase II IROC restoration - on to the interior!
where did you get your setup for $200?
#1927
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Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Home is La Joya Texas- right now Qatar Sand Box
Car: 91 Formula, 91 RS/SS, & 95 Cobra
Engine: TPI 305, LS1, & 5.0
Transmission: 700r4, 4l60e, & 4spd auto
Axle/Gears: 3.73, 3.73, & 3.73
Re: Phase I complete, now Phase II IROC restoration - on to the interior!
THERE'S THIS SHOP WHERE IM FROM AND THEY ALL TYPES OF HEADLIGHT CONVERTIONS HALOS CLEAR LIGHTS AND ALL THAT STUFF ALL 4 HEADLIGHTS WHERE 120 OTHER 80 WHERE THE HIDS I THINK 6000K SOMETHING LIKE THAT ALSO IVE SEEN SOME GOOD KITS AT EBAY BUT I DONT KNOW THEIR QUALITY MY FRIEND ORDERED FROM EBAY ONCE FOR HIS MONTE CARLOS SS ONE LIGHT CAME BROKEN BUT HE SENT IT BACK AND GOT REPLACED AND HE GOT A DARK BRIGHT BLUE HID KIT IN HIS THEY NEVER GOT BURN OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT MY
#1928
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 107
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From: Long Island, NY
Car: 84 Camaro
Engine: 350 punch out .060 to 360ci
Transmission: 700R4 worked
Axle/Gears: 410 Posi
Re: Phase I complete, now Phase II IROC restoration - on to the interior!
THERE'S THIS SHOP WHERE IM FROM AND THEY ALL TYPES OF HEADLIGHT CONVERTIONS HALOS CLEAR LIGHTS AND ALL THAT STUFF ALL 4 HEADLIGHTS WHERE 120 OTHER 80 WHERE THE HIDS I THINK 6000K SOMETHING LIKE THAT ALSO IVE SEEN SOME GOOD KITS AT EBAY BUT I DONT KNOW THEIR QUALITY MY FRIEND ORDERED FROM EBAY ONCE FOR HIS MONTE CARLOS SS ONE LIGHT CAME BROKEN BUT HE SENT IT BACK AND GOT REPLACED AND HE GOT A DARK BRIGHT BLUE HID KIT IN HIS THEY NEVER GOT BURN OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT MY
Thanks
#1929
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 568
Likes: 2
From: Toronto, On.
Car: 1985 IROC-Z / Z-28
Engine: 383 C.I. Stroked 6.3 Litre
Transmission: 700R-4
Axle/Gears: 3:73 Posi
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
Yep like Neil i have the exact same set up for the head lights, pricey but worth it!
#1930
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 70
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From: Home is La Joya Texas- right now Qatar Sand Box
Car: 91 Formula, 91 RS/SS, & 95 Cobra
Engine: TPI 305, LS1, & 5.0
Transmission: 700r4, 4l60e, & 4spd auto
Axle/Gears: 3.73, 3.73, & 3.73
Re: Phase I complete, now Phase II IROC restoration - on to the interior!
its called martinez partes i dont know if they speak english but for sure they do in spanish i dont got the number cuz im deployed over seas i ordered them when i was home the auto parts is in texas mcallen or hidalgo both in texas
#1932
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From: Aloha, Oregon
Car: '91 Camaro Z28, '85 Camaro Z28
Engine: LB9, LB9
Transmission: T5, 700r4
Axle/Gears: Eaton 3.73 Posi, 3.23 Posi
Re: Phase I complete, now Phase II IROC restoration - on to the interior!
THERE'S THIS SHOP WHERE IM FROM AND THEY ALL TYPES OF HEADLIGHT CONVERTIONS HALOS CLEAR LIGHTS AND ALL THAT STUFF ALL 4 HEADLIGHTS WHERE 120 OTHER 80 WHERE THE HIDS I THINK 6000K SOMETHING LIKE THAT ALSO IVE SEEN SOME GOOD KITS AT EBAY BUT I DONT KNOW THEIR QUALITY MY FRIEND ORDERED FROM EBAY ONCE FOR HIS MONTE CARLOS SS ONE LIGHT CAME BROKEN BUT HE SENT IT BACK AND GOT REPLACED AND HE GOT A DARK BRIGHT BLUE HID KIT IN HIS THEY NEVER GOT BURN OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT MY
#1933
Junior Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 70
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From: Home is La Joya Texas- right now Qatar Sand Box
Car: 91 Formula, 91 RS/SS, & 95 Cobra
Engine: TPI 305, LS1, & 5.0
Transmission: 700r4, 4l60e, & 4spd auto
Axle/Gears: 3.73, 3.73, & 3.73
Re: Phase I complete, now Phase II IROC restoration - on to the interior!
#1934
Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 445
Likes: 1
From: Ellis Grove Il
Car: 1989 Camaro RS/ 1992 Camaro z28
Engine: 383 Stroker/ ls3 e-rod
Transmission: borge warner t-56/ tremech t-56
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt, 3.55/ dayna 44(viper) 3.07
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/fabr...-pictures.html
#1937
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Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 888
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From: Houston, TX
Car: '87+'02 Z28
Engine: 454 LSX
Transmission: T-56, Viper output shaft
Axle/Gears: Strage 12-bolt 3.73:1
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
Hey guys, well, I don't have any new pictures to post but hopefully I will later this week (usual story....I have been to freakin busy). I can say that I have made a couple design changes to the duct from the air box to the throttle body and I think it will be for the better....MORE AIR !
I'll keep you posted and I can't wait to drive it and "represent" either. It's funny, I actually saw a '91-92 Z28 on the road the other day and I was shocked....it's been a while since I have seen a 3rd gen on the streets!
I'll keep you posted and I can't wait to drive it and "represent" either. It's funny, I actually saw a '91-92 Z28 on the road the other day and I was shocked....it's been a while since I have seen a 3rd gen on the streets!
#1938
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
We miss your car, errr I mean we miss you on here! Heh, cant wait to see some new video, hoping to have my plates on next week
#1940
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Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
As gorgeous as a build you are doing, I respectfully regret having to inform you that you are very wrong here.
THose lateral braces are not triangulated enough for lateral boxing of the frame either especially with the hiem joint ends on them swiveling about. It is all just extra weight.
Your windsheild is actually chassis strength in crfash design. Trangulating two braces rearward off the STB from the towers to the center of the widsheild helps box the towers centered on the chassis centerline from flex as well as keeping the towers from diagonally flexing rearward and keeping the inside rear tire planted under hard braking. I have proven this in testing of STB 3 pt trangulation performance.
If you have any questions about chassis flex and weaknesses, feel free to check my credentials and ask. I am always grateful to help. You seem like a person that wants things correct.
Dean
#1941
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Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
Those 3rd pt connections play a major part in diagonal chassis flex and predictability in hard braking corner entrance. Having them on there will keep the rear inside wheel planted with less chassis flex kinking the windsheild/firwall towards the towers diagonally with flex. Just a simple STB without 3 pt attachmnents triangulated will cause both strut towers to flex sideways together in sequence which still takes away from precise steering control and allows for chassis flex and loss of predictabilty of traction footprints.
#1942
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Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
Let me give you a simple example of what you are actually doing with these two frame links. It is no different thatn doing this- (First attachment pic with yellow vertical links) THese links swivel and merely just keep the distance of the strut tower to the frame. THe strut tower does not need bracing here from colapsing towards the frame rail.
If it did, this would be a much simpler and FAR STRONGER way to brace the strut tower to the subframe rail below it with double sheared and welded gusset plates. But even this is fairly unnessasary if the STB is done correctly with proper 3 pt bracing. Linking them in support from the higher laterally direct 3pt braces to the firewall is far more potant. (Second pic with red gusset plates weleded to the sibframe rail and to the tower sides.)
You are not doing anything with this bracket to keep the towers centered on the windsheild or centered on the subframe rails. My second rendition would help keep the tops of the strut towers from flexing laterally on the lower subframe rails, but yours only keeps them from flalling closer or streatching away from the subframe rails. It does nothing to help lateral location of the towers by linking the towers to the rails with vertical links that swivel.
IMPORTANT: p.s.- I was asked a few times in PM's to come into here and critic this STB brace buy a few TGO members I will keep nameless. I am merely giving my opinion based on being asked to do so.
Dean
If it did, this would be a much simpler and FAR STRONGER way to brace the strut tower to the subframe rail below it with double sheared and welded gusset plates. But even this is fairly unnessasary if the STB is done correctly with proper 3 pt bracing. Linking them in support from the higher laterally direct 3pt braces to the firewall is far more potant. (Second pic with red gusset plates weleded to the sibframe rail and to the tower sides.)
You are not doing anything with this bracket to keep the towers centered on the windsheild or centered on the subframe rails. My second rendition would help keep the tops of the strut towers from flexing laterally on the lower subframe rails, but yours only keeps them from flalling closer or streatching away from the subframe rails. It does nothing to help lateral location of the towers by linking the towers to the rails with vertical links that swivel.
IMPORTANT: p.s.- I was asked a few times in PM's to come into here and critic this STB brace buy a few TGO members I will keep nameless. I am merely giving my opinion based on being asked to do so.
Dean
Last edited by Vetruck; 10-24-2010 at 06:17 PM.
#1943
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 599
Likes: 1
From: Long Island, NY
Car: 1992 z28
Engine: 383 LT1 in the works
Transmission: T-56 in the works
Axle/Gears: 3.73 in the works
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
the design neil has helps to keep the strut towers from moving upwards, am i wrong? The best design would be to encorporate both designs because if the strut towers where to go they will go up more than anything and somewhat backwards.
I dont see how neil's design doesnt help more than the 3 pt brace. the 3 pt brace doesnt do too much for upwards movement of the strut towers because the bars on the brace can easily bend upwards.
I dont see how neil's design doesnt help more than the 3 pt brace. the 3 pt brace doesnt do too much for upwards movement of the strut towers because the bars on the brace can easily bend upwards.
#1944
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Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
the design neil has helps to keep the strut towers from moving upwards, am i wrong? The best design would be to encorporate both designs because if the strut towers where to go they will go up more than anything and somewhat backwards.
I dont see how neil's design doesnt help more than the 3 pt brace. the 3 pt brace doesnt do too much for upwards movement of the strut towers because the bars on the brace can easily bend upwards.
I dont see how neil's design doesnt help more than the 3 pt brace. the 3 pt brace doesnt do too much for upwards movement of the strut towers because the bars on the brace can easily bend upwards.
His link is doing nothing. THe green wall area is not stretching upward.
Now lets say for your concern the strut top is moving upward...so what? By maybe 1/8th and inch in extreme (which I HIGHLY doubt not even 1/16th inch because chassis metal fatigue would crack every third gen years ago here if it flexed upward un strut strokes) and if it did flex a little upward it has NOTHING TO DO WITH SUSPENSION GEOMETRY, it is merely at that point a shock mount stretcthing upward another 1/16th inch of no mans land dampering. 99.9% of you peoples cars out thaere are getting more than 1/2" slp play combine in all other polaces of bushing deflections, crap shoock dampering, and or poor tire choice and mechanical spring tractionloss that will occur far more detrimental than this green wall ever stretching upward would minutely affect 1/100th of your strut damper in compression stroke.
EDIT-
I am attaching another sketch showing potential movement upward of the strut shaft and the distance in imaginary red line of where boxing from the subframe rail in this manor will do nothing vertically for the strut shaft mount position in dynamic loading forces or lateral forces. THe tie in point of the links onto the side of the tower not near the strut shaft does nothing for tower flex.
People, when looking at strut tower bracing, you are looking at things wrongly. It is not the strut tower you want to keep still, its ultimately the strut shaft mount position yu want to remain consistant in regards to the lower A-arm mount ears AND the other three tire footprints. IF the tire is resting mostly on this tire foiotprint in an outside front tire hard braking condition, the chassis upper weight will be wanting to motion towards this suspension point, not the tower itself. You want to keep the suspension point isolated laterally and longitudinally. Supporting the side of the tower while the strut mount is still potentially moving is pointless. I will say again, if this was his concern, then he would have been better suited with welded frame gussets on the side of the towers rather than swivel attchments that do nothng in leveraged linkage. Even my first example of a direct "yellow" link would be far greater, but still pointless attaching to the side of the tower. That whole tower can still twist. it needs higher leveraged lateral triangulated support fromth span of the lateral rigid firewall and windsheild span.
Last edited by Vetruck; 10-24-2010 at 06:17 PM.
#1946
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Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
Nope. thats not overkill. Thats Jerry's birdcage (Jerrywho), I have seen that in person and know Jerry. That setup keeps the entire nose of the car boxed and square and is still remarkably very light for the amount of bracing it supplies. Those upper strut tower platforms do not migrate or flex anywhere. Just a pain in the *** to work around and remove for maintinance or repairs. I am sure Jerry will tell you the same thing himself.
Jerry is very innovative and one hell of a talented fabricator. This cage rules out any of the diagonal chassis flex I spoke of causing lifting of the inside rear wheel under hard braking corner entrance. My car was so rigid in flx resistace and bushing deflection, etc...that when I removed my 3rd pt braces and just left my STB lateral 2 pt bar my car would get loose under hard braking corner entrance like I describe- IT WAS VERY NOTICIABLE in my car, but again, my car was very built without weak links or poor maintinace anywhere of any part in the chain. When I discovered the Edelbrock tower brackets were flexing, that alone made a big difference in steering imput and entrance balnace as well as predictability and sweet spot control. It eliminated that last bit of sawing at the wheel on corner entrance I had, and my car was light weight unlike you guys heavier V8's which would be even worse with the added weight and lessor 50/50 bias. Those 3rd points do correctly are a vast improvement when combined with solid bearing strut mounts.
Jerry is very innovative and one hell of a talented fabricator. This cage rules out any of the diagonal chassis flex I spoke of causing lifting of the inside rear wheel under hard braking corner entrance. My car was so rigid in flx resistace and bushing deflection, etc...that when I removed my 3rd pt braces and just left my STB lateral 2 pt bar my car would get loose under hard braking corner entrance like I describe- IT WAS VERY NOTICIABLE in my car, but again, my car was very built without weak links or poor maintinace anywhere of any part in the chain. When I discovered the Edelbrock tower brackets were flexing, that alone made a big difference in steering imput and entrance balnace as well as predictability and sweet spot control. It eliminated that last bit of sawing at the wheel on corner entrance I had, and my car was light weight unlike you guys heavier V8's which would be even worse with the added weight and lessor 50/50 bias. Those 3rd points do correctly are a vast improvement when combined with solid bearing strut mounts.
#1947
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 599
Likes: 1
From: Long Island, NY
Car: 1992 z28
Engine: 383 LT1 in the works
Transmission: T-56 in the works
Axle/Gears: 3.73 in the works
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
I only say upwards because the a-arms move up and down and when using the coil overs they also move up and down - sure they are not perfectly vertical but either way they are putting a huge upward force on the strut towers. That is what I mean by moving up. Neils design is slighlty different than mine. I took UMI's strut tower brace with connects the top of both strut towers and then i am having two bars that come down and connect to the frame rails.
If there is so much for going back to the firewall is there any concern for damage to the firewall or cowl area? There really isnt any structural bracing there. In the end I dont think anyone is trying to drive their car straight into a curb to even have to worry this much... and if you think you might then....
If there is so much for going back to the firewall is there any concern for damage to the firewall or cowl area? There really isnt any structural bracing there. In the end I dont think anyone is trying to drive their car straight into a curb to even have to worry this much... and if you think you might then....
#1948
Supreme Member
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,627
Likes: 3
From: Houston Area
Car: Faster
Engine: Than
Transmission: You!
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
Great info on chassis/suspension theory!
However....
Neil is good friend of mine and for what he's going to be doing with the car, what he already has (chassis and suspension) is more than sufficient. His strut tower brace will help some, but is more for show vs. all-out SCCA road racing. His car is caged, has subframe connectors, boxed control arms, coil-overs, wonder bar, etc. etc. along with a neat looking strut brace that works around his tall intake manifold.
It may see some track time, but most likely it would be 1/4 mile just to see what it will do and the rest of the time (which mostly likely will not be much due to his work load), will be divided between having a little fun on the street and taking it to some shows.
Neil, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the above is pretty accurate.
However....
Neil is good friend of mine and for what he's going to be doing with the car, what he already has (chassis and suspension) is more than sufficient. His strut tower brace will help some, but is more for show vs. all-out SCCA road racing. His car is caged, has subframe connectors, boxed control arms, coil-overs, wonder bar, etc. etc. along with a neat looking strut brace that works around his tall intake manifold.
It may see some track time, but most likely it would be 1/4 mile just to see what it will do and the rest of the time (which mostly likely will not be much due to his work load), will be divided between having a little fun on the street and taking it to some shows.
Neil, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the above is pretty accurate.
#1949
Junior Member
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
From: dallas
Car: Jeep
Engine: small
Transmission: automatic
Axle/Gears: rear
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
The STB design is really more to do with packaging.We wanted to tie the strut towers together and this was the only option.
Will the small rods help? Not much...will they hurt? ...No
the final version will have solid rod ends to prevent bar rotation as I have always planned.
If you look real close at the pictures you may notice a humongous aluminum intake maifold that is in the way of making advantageous bar. I have told Neil over and over this car is being built backwards , design it ,build it...then paint it. The next car He builds will be approached in a different manner.
If you don't like it, you don't like it...... But does it really matter
John Bulba
American Race Components
Dallas, Texas
SCCA World Challenge GT Crew Chief-"Podium Finisher"
SCCA World Challenge ,SCCA Trans AM , Grand AM ,ALMS GT, HSR,-team cook
Will the small rods help? Not much...will they hurt? ...No
the final version will have solid rod ends to prevent bar rotation as I have always planned.
If you look real close at the pictures you may notice a humongous aluminum intake maifold that is in the way of making advantageous bar. I have told Neil over and over this car is being built backwards , design it ,build it...then paint it. The next car He builds will be approached in a different manner.
If you don't like it, you don't like it...... But does it really matter
John Bulba
American Race Components
Dallas, Texas
SCCA World Challenge GT Crew Chief-"Podium Finisher"
SCCA World Challenge ,SCCA Trans AM , Grand AM ,ALMS GT, HSR,-team cook
#1950
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 888
Likes: 0
From: Houston, TX
Car: '87+'02 Z28
Engine: 454 LSX
Transmission: T-56, Viper output shaft
Axle/Gears: Strage 12-bolt 3.73:1
Re: Phase I done, Phase II-interior almost done, and now Phase III-drivetrain (454 LS
Alot of good points have been raised and it's good that people have the knowledge to share and offer it. That being said, my car (and Mike did a good job of stating this) was not meant to be a SCCA road course car and neither a drag car, but rather the best of both worlds. Will I one day get on a road course and see what I and the car can do? Sure. Will I drag race it? oh hell yeah! But most of all I can't wait to park it, sit down on a lawn chair and drink many beers eat burgers with friends and finally say that IT IS DONE!!!.....ok, at the rate I am going that might be in 2012
In the many years I have owned this car, I have never had a STB, so the one being fabricated will definitely add support (how much is obviously debatable). Being a T-top car, I want to minimize chassy flex as much as possible and with 6-point cage, SFC, trans cross-member mounted to SFC, and the new STB can only help IMO. Also, this is my opinion, but the smaller rods tied into the frame and connected to the STB will offer strength and tie the front of the car together. As to how much they will help....i'll let you know....later.....when I can actually get it on the road
In the many years I have owned this car, I have never had a STB, so the one being fabricated will definitely add support (how much is obviously debatable). Being a T-top car, I want to minimize chassy flex as much as possible and with 6-point cage, SFC, trans cross-member mounted to SFC, and the new STB can only help IMO. Also, this is my opinion, but the smaller rods tied into the frame and connected to the STB will offer strength and tie the front of the car together. As to how much they will help....i'll let you know....later.....when I can actually get it on the road