When I purchased my '88 IROC in the spring I knew it was nearly an 18 year old car and wouldn't be in "factory condition" as far as the underbody was concerned.

I know these cars have a tendancy to rust really badly on the floor pans (as with the Mustangs of the same era) and seeing as how it's Canadian, I knew for sure if it wasn't already rusted badly, it would be eventually, especially with all the salt dumped out on the roadways during the winter month's.

A few days back I noticed when I was vacuming, the carpet was soaking wet in certain area's of the car.

I got a bad feeling right away and after pulling up a tiny section of the carpet on the passenger side, my worst fears came true.

There was a rust hole about the size of a soda can staring right back at me. The wet carpet was due to rain water coming up and into the car through the openings.

Since this car is my only mode of transportation untill I finish up the Firebird, I need to be able to drive it all year round (I know, I know, I'm crazy for driving an Fbody in the winter )

I shopped around looking for some place that specialize in this sort of thing and I couldn't believe just how difficult it was to find ANYBODY who did this kind of work.

Aparently, removing old/welding in new pans is a sort of "lost art" around these parts as I couldn't find anyone who could help me out.

To make a long story short, just yesterday, my mechanic heard about my troubles and told me about this place he knows where the owner specializes in floor panel/frame restoration. Apparently this guy is REALLY good and is sought after by all the guys doing major high dollar frame-off restorations (big $$)

I passed by the place afterwards and spoke with the owner. He was a really cool guy and showed me a photo album of all his work. I was more than impressed. This guy has worked on car's with rust that made mine look petty in comparison.

I mentioned to him about my current, uhm, "financial situation" and asked if there was anything I could do to save myself a couple bucks. He suggested I take out the interior as that would make his job easier and would knock off about $100-150 from the $600 quote he gave me to repair the BACK section of th car.

This morning I got up bright and early to start tearing out the interior (that console is a real pain in the @ss )
and what I saw after I finally removed all o fthe carpeting just about ruined my day.

It was A LOT worse than I thought. The floor pans - especially the driverside, were paper thin and I accedently stepped a foot right through the driver side pan when I was in the car

I dropped off the IROC at the frame shop and showed the guy the inside. I told him I wouldn't be able to afford to do it all at once so I could only afford to do one section at a time (back then front at a later date)

What happened next, really caught me off guard. He said he would do EVERYTHING for $700 cash !!!

I don't know why he gave me such a good deal, maybe he felt sorry for me but hey, I can't complain. I left the car there and will be picking it up Monday or Tuesday afternoon.

He's not getting aftermarket pans- he reccomended against them as he said they were a ripp-off. Instead, he'll be making new pans from scratch and shapping/forming them to exact factory origion spec's and dimentions. He's even going to be stamping in all the creases to strengthen the panels themselves.

I can't wait to see what the final outcome is. He's been highly reccomended so I think I'm in good hands.

I took some pic's this morning of the rusty floor panels PICTURES OF RUSTY FLOOR PANELS

When I get the car back I'll post some pic's of the cars "new" flooring

Have any of you had/ seen worse ?? What did you do to repair them? Install new aftermarket pans or did you patch up the old ones?

Also, when I get the car back, shoud I undercoat it or paint it with POR-15? I've done a search and it looks like many of you have good experiences with it.

What do you think? Any thoughts/ reccomendation would be appreciated.

 

yea rust blows and congrats on the deal, i had a good amount of rust on my camaro but luckly i have a friend who can cut and weld real well and i hope to learn it soon myself, your story should inspire eveyone to learn how to do it too, not every1 can get agrreat deal

 

$700? If he's patching it thats like a 1-2 hour job. Is that what floorwork goes for nowadays?

 

Unfortunately there's nothing left of the floor pans to patch anything at all

Like I said, the floor pans - especially on the drivers side, are paper thin and can literally being punctured with nothing more than a push of a finger There's a big gaping hole now on the driver's side where my foot accidently went right through

He's basically going to replace EVERYTHING ! . All new custom made floor pans. I can't wait to see what the end result will be !!

As far as future rust protection though, what do you guys reccomend? Should I put on a coat of POR-15 or have it undercoated instead?

While I'm at it I may as well put in a new (or used but good condition) carpet and some sound -deadner. You guy's reccomed anything ?


Thanx.


P.s.

$700 Canadian is only like 5 something U.S. so I think it's an AMAZING deal seeing as how just aftermarket floor pans alone will run me up close to that.

 

doesnt sound too bad at all. Id be curious to see the pics of how it turns out.

I think Metal Ready and POR15 would be the best way to attack those new pans and try to get some life out of them with winter driving.

 

Replacing the floors and being Canadian dollars then I'd say that's a great deal. POR15 seems to get amazing results on these forums- I'm looking to do it one day once I'm ready to paint my car.

 

I've heard folks on here not be so happy with por 15 especially long term results.

Something I've been thinking about is coating the whole floor with heavy grease before putting the padding back on the inside. I don't think it will come up thru the padding and carpet like light oil would. It certainly wouldn't rust any more. Oil spray the underside of the car every year.

 

When the car is finished and I go and pick it up, I'll be sure to take a bunch of pic's and post them for all to see

 

Coating everything with grease ? Hmm..that would definetely be cheaper than POR-15 and probably quicker too. Might be another option but I am worried how it would affect the carpeting.

I'm going to have to look into that.

Thanks for the idea

 

I'm scrapping my 84 right now. Think I'll take my trusty sawzall and chop out a piece of the floor. Grease the hell out of it, put a piece of padding then carpet over it and see how it is a few months down the road.

I'm looking for a long term solution to rust and so far I have not found one. If I'm not getting grease coming thru the carpet then all my 3rd gens are getting this treatment.

 

Does covering the bottom of the car with an oil substance once a year really stop rust?

 

Just fiberglass the hell out of them and then put 5 or 6 coats of that spray on bedliner in a can you can get at auto parts stores... I have rust on mine but Im planning on using fiberglass resin inside the car and a good undercoating on the outside. Thats until I have the money and welder and all that good stuff to put in some new floor pans in a few years.

I just have 1 little spot rusted thru on the passenger side and with all that fiberglass resin and undercoat no more rusting

rust = oxidation = it needs oxygen, and after I put all that stuff on there I dont think there will be any chance of oxygen getting in.. haha I know its ghetto but its just a quick fix for a few years then I can get down to making it look like new.

On the plus side it will greatly improve sound dampening from under the car since I plan on having headers and the y-pipe, a high flow cat and then just a flowmaster with a side exit in front of the rear tire.

So...

Inside::: Coating of fiberglass resin followed by a coating of undercoat with sound deadener...

Outside::: A few layers of undercoat / truck bed coating

I know it wont completly stop the rust but it will keep things together safely and keep it from spreading out of control

 

The fiberglass will just fall off in a few years. Already tried that. Doesn't work long term tho it looks ok initially.

Oil won't stop rust but it will slow it down about 99%.

 

Anybody want to guess what way my little experement will go? Ever seen anything rust under oil?


Think it will outlive all the other "paint on" solutions?

 

wesdog has the right idea.
I fiberglassed small holes, then put on undercoating and peel-n-seal on the inside.

I'll have to wait and see, but fiberglass, if mixed right, doesn't really come off. I've yet to see it fall off like people say. It's rock hard too. and you ever see fiberglass rust? not me.
Time will tell.

oil, or any other petroleum based product (grease, undercoating), is water/moisture proof. And if it's flexible (undercoating), it won't chip off, so it's resilient. That's my solution. I think the oil will work great, but will stink.

oh yea, I don't do anything over rust really, I try to remove it all, grinding and whatnot.... However if you "convert it" with a phosphoric acid compound, or paint over it with a good rust paint, then you can do your fiberglassing from there.

LT1fun, where in canada are you?
Getting someone to form new floor panels from sheet metal is a lost art, if it looks somewhat close to what it "should" look like (ie. before it rusted), then you got a bargain.

 

I'm from Toronto, well, Scarborough actually

I should be picking up the car tomorrow after work if all goes well.

He said it would be done for Monday or Tuesday. He works 7 days a week and started the job Saturday when I dropped off the car around 10am when I finished gutting the interior.

He definetely has his work cut out for him, that's for sure.

I never got around to pulling out the sound deadner just under the dash by the foot wells so I don't know wheather that was badly rusted out or not. I told him to check what the condition was and if that needed to be fixed, to go right ahead. I'd pay the extra amount.

I'm pretty nervous right now. I know he's capable of doing a great job as I've seen some of his previous work. I guess I'm more excited than anything.


I'll post pic's ASAP when I pick up the car.

I haven't yet decided what I'm going to do rust protection though, I have to figure that out still.

 

You did get a pretty good price considering the difficulty of the work and the lack of shops in Canada. I'm extremely lucky to have happened across reputable shop that does restorative work in my small town. I have similar problems with my floor pans...and many other areas on the car. I wanted to make sure I caught everything, so I sent the completely bare unibody. For the floor pans to be rebuilt, (the technician also said it would probably be an easier and better repair just to rebuild the rotted sections) I am being billed for 6 hours of labour at 48 dollars an hour...which is a pretty conservative 288 dollars. However, in light of a total bill 50 times as large, I think the shop's trying to give me a 'deal' on certain parts of the job. For finishing, the inside and underside are getting painted with the rest of the body...since this is certainly not a daily driver. However, in your case I would definitely not leave bare steel anywhere if possible. POR15 sounds to be the most suitable product, though I've had no experience with it. Give it a shot.

HalfInchWrench is also onto to something with his idea about rust-proofing under the carpet. The technician doing the body repair on my car, out of no small coincidence, drives an Iroc daily in the summer (and because he loves it...certainly not because it's all he can afford!). He's had it since new. To keep the floors in shape he coated the inside of the floor pans with a grease-based rust proofing product. To prevent seeping through the carpet, he then molded some very thin sheets of plastic (abs I think) with a heat gun to lay over the rust-proofing and then laid the underpadding and carpet down. He checks the floor pans every other season and has never had any rust issues with them (and this car is mint for a stock car). As far as I could tell, there have been no adverse effects to the interior either...no smell and the carpet is fine.

As for undercoating...DON'T DO IT! My car was undercoated when I bought it and scraping the coating off revealed some horrible, horrible truths (and it was a little old lady who owned the car and had it undercoated when new). The stuff seems to trap moisture under it and seems to do more harm than good. With my daily driven cars, I have them oil sprayed underneath every spring. The problem with the oil is that a lot of salt/dirt/anything else gets trapped in it, so before I get the coating redone, I take a day and thorougly clean off the previous years' mess with a pressure washer and an industrial degreaser. So far I've had no casualties.

I hope the repair turns out well and I look forward to seeing the pictures when you get it back. Inquire at the shop when you pick it up to see if they have a preferred rust-proofing product. A combination of sealing the repair with some sort of paint product and then a grease-based rust-proofer should be just enough over kill to keep the car in one piece for awhile. I'm glad to hear you took the 'right' route in repairing the problem properly...finding a solid thirdgen around here is nearly impossible anymore.

 

I used POR 15 on my floorboards and if you prep it right that stuff is like a rock. Id go that route get some metal ready, spray it on and let it sit for half an hour, rinse it off, let it dry, they paint away with the por 15 on the inside and outside of the floorpans. ithink youll be happy with the results. When youre doing the underside just be careful of drips getting in your eye or on your skin as it doesnt feel very good and this stuff WILL NOT COME OFF MY SKIN!!

 

yeah that POR15 is some serious ****t...i had some rust on my passenger floor pan so i did the whole underside of the car. although i didnt really prep it much other than clean it real well. because i learned later por 15 only grabs real well to rough surfaces..so there is a few spots that flaked off but for the most part its pretty solid...im gonna peel the carpet up soon grind out as much rust as possible and do the top of the floor also..

 

Undercoating is the nastiest thing you could do to a car. Better to do nothing at all.

Fiberglass is rock hard and doesn't rust. The problem is the metal it is attached to will rust a few years down the road and the glass will not be attached to it anymore.

Oil is messy but it works. I'd rather deal with the mess than rust.

If the inside can be figured out under the carpet with a good long term solution then that's a bonus. I've thought about oiling the floor inside then a barrier like some 4 mil plastic but was afraid of trapping water under it. Prehaps the heavy grease will stay put. I hope so. If not then I'm gonna oil the inside and lay plastic over it.

I'm looking foreward to seeing pics of that repaired floor.

 

I picked upt the car on Tuesday in the evening after work. I haven't had time to take any photo's yet as it's pretty much night time when I get off work and it's too dark to use the camera.

I'll post pic's this weekend for sure.

Untill then, I'd just like to say I am very happy with the end result.

Turns out not ALL the floor pans had to be removed. The passenger side pan (up by the catalic converter) was rust free. I'm assuming it's because the heat shield directly underneath kept all the snow/rain water away.

All else was replaced. Including around the foot-wells which were also badly rusted.

I kept a few piece's of the old pan's for keep-sake. That wak I can show everybody the "before" pans and the "after" .

As far as coating, I asked the guy who did all the work, what he reccomended.

He suggested I leave the inside of the car as is. He said that when floor pans rust out, it's not from the inside, but from the outside which works it's way in. He said there wasn't much point in painting the inside as it won't protect anything.

Hmm.....make's sense

The underside of coarse has to be protected and as someone else already mentioned, POR-15 requires a rough surface to work best or it'll start chipping off. He warned me about that and said if I go that route, to give the underside a good sanding before hand.


Oh well, that's all for now untill I post up some pic's. I'm looking into some sound insulation (Dynamat or similar) to throw in before I put everthing else back in. May as well do it now as it's something I've wanted to do for a while.


Anything else out there besides Dynamat ?? That stuff's pretty expensive and I don't see the reason behind it other than the name-brand.


If any of you can reccomend something, that'd be great.

 

While it's true for most cars that they don't rust out from the inside, thirdgens have this problem of leaking. The floors on my car had actually rusted out from water pooled in the footwells (not much, but enough) due to leaking t-tops--or at least that was a serious contributor. Definitely make sure your seals are up to snuff if you're not going to put any kind of protection on the inside of the floorpans. I would be tempted to at least slap a coat of some sort of paint on them though.

Regardless, I'm glad you're happy with the work done and I look forward to pictures.

 

i wouldn't be completely sure that floors rust from outside in only. If i were you i'd look at some other floorpans closer. My old truck rusted from the inside out.

The water from your shoes and snow and such has to go somewhere right? Add that to salt on your boots and you've got a problem.

 

Its true, most stuff i have to repair on over 85% of cars comes through water leaks that is water trying to get out.
Its often through windscreen seals, bad joints, repaired joints not sealed, and of course, targa roofs etc [if fitted] you name it.
Many years ago the underseal factories put on, actually encouraged condensation to form between the panels and underseal, it was worse than leaving things bare.
An old trick was brush old engine oil over the floor underneath on bare metal, and it worked, damn messy though.
Unfortunately with rust, once its in, its in, you can slow it down, but the only surefire way to get rid of it is replacement panels.

 

so he left the inner metal bare metal? no paint at all? huh, I wouldn't agree with that....


dynamat is pure "paying for the name". There are alternatives, like raamat, b-quiet, etc... but these are all car stereo brands, so the price is higher for the typical stereo boy.... Get yourself some peel-n-seal from lowes. just finished doing the inside of my car with it. I don't care what anyone else says, it's the exact same thing as the others. $12.99 per roll of 6"x25' I think... I've used 4.5 rolls on the car, and done everything except the doors basically. I got 6 rolls total.

 

POR 15 will adhere to new metal, you just need to prep it right...thats what the metal ready is for. it etches the metal so that the porwill adhere...if i were you i wouldnt leave any of the metal bare or else youll just be doing the whole replacement thing over again.

 

Just out of curiosity, why is there a common fear of undercoating?

I think it's about the best choice there is, mostly for the obvious reasons listed on the can.... What are the detractions?

 

Mostly, I tend to stay away from undercoating because it doesn't work for it's intended purpose. My camaro was undercoated when new and the only purpose the undercoating seemed to have was hiding the rust forming underneath it. If you have a painted surface and spray it with oil, you can at least see what's happening. There are varied theories as to why undercoating does more harm than it does good...I'm not sure I could justify claiming any of them but from my experience with the stuff, I'd not reccommend using it.

 

Well, not exactly. All the new sheetmetal was sprayed over with some kind of black paint. I don't know what it is exactly but it's not the usual "spay paint from a can" It's really thick and has almost like a "rubbery" feel to it. The entire underside was painted over and all that was re[placed on the inside was also coated with the same. Again, because the passenger side pan just above the cat wasn't rteplaced, it was not painted. Still factory gray.



I've heard about peal-n-seal a few times before on other forums. Since you have done your interior with it, you'd be the best person to ask this question.

How is it? Was there really any improvment in sound deadening ? Was it worth the effort ? Let me know your experience with it so far.

I really want to quite the car down so if I have to spend the extra money for dynamat or something, I will. If anybody else has used peal-n-seal, feel free to chime in or reccomend something else.

There's a lows up the street from me. I'll have to go and check it out.

 

It's not the car, it's the owners and how they used them. You would be surprised how many northern cars from the 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80's have rust free undercarriages.

Here are a few pics...

http://photobucket.com/albums/v11/sk...Undercarriage/

http://photobucket.com/albums/v11/sk...Undercarriage/

http://photobucket.com/albums/v11/sk...Undercarriage/

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...1/GTunder2.jpg

This thread is a good one for readers who are currently shopping for an F-body.

When you go look at a car..... LAY DOWN ON THE GROUND, get confortable, take your time, and LOOK AT EVERYTHING.

I have had brake lines rupture under heavy breaking, trailing arms break in half while shifting 5500 RPMS, and many more horror stories. Those experences forced me to stop buying rusty cars many years ago.

Need to find the ones that were garage kept and not driven in the salt.

 

Well Lowes is the only place that sells this stuff, and lowes isn't in canada... So I had to get my mom to drop by a lowes on a recent trip to USA, and grab me enough that I thought would work... 6 rolls $100 total... PITA, but worth it to me...

I'm still doing my full resto on my car, I can show a pic or two of the stuff, but the car hasn't left the garage yet, so I can't say how well it works.
I used undercoating on spots that were too hard to get to with peel-n-seal.

Sounds like they used undercoating on your car.... rubbery black stuff...


I'd highly recommend the peel-n-seal...
I think it'll stick to anything, and won't fall off unless you live in mexico city or something.... (alberta, I won't have any problems...)
It does not smell after putting it on. I used a heat gun to help form it on nicely, and I only used one layer.... The heat gun got it stinking pretty good, but the smell was gone minutes later.


I like undercoating, 'cuz it doesn't dry hard, so it won't chip. As long as there is no rust below it (or the rust is nicely painted to "stop" it) then undercoating should be good to go... It's cheap as mud, and just as fun to apply... just my $.02

 

Yeah sorry, I was thinking of "RONA" or "Home Depot" or something like that. (These home improvment places all look the same to me)

Lowes is coming to Canada though, at the end of the year low's CA. press release

Still, I'll pass by the local supplies and see what they carry.

 

I think that peel and seal folks mentioned is ice and water sheild used for roofing. Extremely sticky stuff. Can buy that at any home depot type place.

Did you get any pics?

 

I thought I took some pics, but I can't find any now...?
I have one, with my stereo stuff in there, which shows a bit of it. I used undercoating on edges as well, and this wasn't the finished product...

https://webdisk.ucalgary.ca/~jmknopp...eo%20stuff.JPG

hmm, I looked and at the local home improvement places they didn't have anything at all like it...

 

Sorry it took so long for the pic's but I've been working 16 hour shifts and by the time I get home, I'm dead tired.

Anyways, since I got the car back, I put everthing back inside including a black carpet I got out of an old junker parts car Most wouldn't have even considered taking out such a rough looking carpet from such a heap, but I saw potential. Got it home and after an hour of washing with the hose and some laundy detergent ....VOILA !! You'd never know it was used !

Here are the before and after. I have to figure out what I'm going to do about an undercoating of some sort, before the snow starts falling ...

What do you guys think? Not bad for $750 eh ? - Thats canadian by the way

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i'm impressed, that guy does VERY nice fab work considering he made those from scratch.

 

While I'm at it I may as well put in a new (or used but good condition) carpet and some sound -deadner. You guy's reccomed anything ?

use DYNA-MAT (i think thats the right spelling) a lot of guys use it for sound isolation in stereo installs,it has an adhesive back and i hear it works great.a friend of mine said he just bought a bunch of it at an aircraft supply store and got a way better deal than the stereo store.

 

Unfortunately, there just wasn't enough funding for anything as expensive as dynamat. With a broken heater core, the car was already cold enough each morning but with no interior aswell, I couldn't wait any longer. I had to put the interior back in ASAP.

One thing I did do which some people might not be thrilled about was re-install the origional carpet UNDER the (newer) black one.

I figured why not? There was nothing wrong with the old one besides being dirty so I washed it completely and let it dry as I did with the black one. After installing it I trimmed the sides so as to make room for the black and then installed that one over it.

You'd never know there was two carpets in the car. Everything fit's nice and snug and there was a definete decrease in road noise with the second carpet. I'm willing to bet the decrease in road noise would be equal too, if not better than Dynamat
Either way, maybe next spring when the weather gets better, I'll get some dynamat but for now, I'm happy with my results

 

that's a good idea... may trap more moisture, so keep an eye on it, but slick...

that is pretty good on the floorboards... I wonder HOW he did it like that.... hmmm

 

He did decent fab work. I am repairing the floor in my 85. It's worse than yours. On top of that I am learning to mig weld. I've been 2 full days doing just the right side back seat floor/ lower wheel well. I am getting better with the mig, no pro yet but much better than my first bead if you could call it that. I'm gonna paint the welds, then seal, then I'm greasing the hell out of the inside once I'm done. Oil spray the bottom. Grease is not comming thru my test piece of carpet/padding yet.

 

I was thinking of greasing the floor too but couldn't find anything appropriate. Possibly next year I'll do it if I don't go with some dynamat.

Either way, I drove the car out on the freeway today to get to a new job site and there was a substantial difference in road noise. It's much quiter now with the second carpet then before. The car feels more ...I don't know..."solid". Makes me wonder why more people don't do the same

 

Small bucket of chassis grease or wheel bearing grease at crappy tire. Bout a gallon. Think it's about $16 or maybe $26. That should do the trick. Smear that everywhere. Inside the seat base frame spray oil and other places you can't reach with the grease.

Your lower road noise will also be do to having the floor fixed. The extra layer of carpet will help a bit. Noise will go thru those holes as if there was nothing there. There was nothing there! I expect mine to be much different. Sorta like my 91 which doesn't have any holes at all.

Currently tackling the front left side of the floor. All has to be replaced back to the front seat rail. Good thing the passenger side is no where near as bad. Even the sub frame that the tranny x-member is mounted to is rotted on that side. Damn those leaky t-roof's. I will never buy another t-roof 3rd gen. Lines and x-member is out of the way. Cleaned up. Gotta re-do that. Just about to chop it out. Reciprocating saw and grinder time!

 

You'll have to report back on that later, but I think that'll stink like crazy.... (and I don't trust your opinion, or any gearheads, I can't smell petroluem based products anymore, but get a girl to check, if she thinks the car smells ok, then it's good enough for me...)

 

I'm using it in the bitches car no matter if she likes it or not. The bottom line is it slows down rust. You won't smell it thru the carpet. Ever packed a bearing in your life young fella? Have you smelled the grease in question or are you just pondering? It's low odor. You won't even smell it. I have a sensitive nose for smells and I can't detect it. If I could I would have brought it up along time ago in this thread.

 

haha, yea, in my "young life" i've packed bearings, and greased chassis points etc. I don't think it stinks badly, but like I said, i've lost all my sense of smell for car stuff. If i'm around girls, they'll tell me I stink like crazy, and chassis grease is pretty bad for that. I figured the carpet will hold the stink like a sponge, even though it has that rubbery base that may hold it back...
But hey, let me know how it works, it is intriguing, as it's cheap, it'll do the job, and creative, and that's my style.

 

Give up on fiberglass unless you want to make something custom like a speaker enclosure, stop hanging around with them oil pit girls, and have a shower once and a while. Every day is the min.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by LT1FUN
[\B]


What happened to your seatbelt female ends?

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HalfInchWrench
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by LT1FUN
[B]

The stock plastic body piece's were all cracked up the side and not looking too hot I decided to just tear them off and just have the belts themselves. I know the bronze colour of the strap doesn't go with the carpet but they're covered completely by the seats so all you see are the ends. If I can find a used pair in good condition for cheap, I'll pick them up.

On the bright side, by eliminating the plastic covers of the seatbelts, I offset the extra weight of the 2nd carpet by about 1/4 of a pound Every bit of weight reduction counts

 

Female thru history means the part you can plug into. The only ones we can see in that pic.