Rabbitt

Maybe i have been watching American Hot Rod too much lately, but I want to do a skim-coat of body filler on my entire car (excluding the fiberglass/plastic) with my car. I'm painting it black and I have plenty of little dings and low spots, so i guess i figure it wouldnt hurt..

Has anyone else here this? I plan on using Evercoat Rage and 3M Dry Guide Coat... Will this be enough guidecoat to do an entire car? And i plan on using a 17" long block with 150grit sand paper.. this sound right?

thanx guys

Derek The Great

that rage and rage gold is the good stuff, sands great. but that is filler, and not the light weight filler that is used for small inperfections, which isnt always necessary. You will need hardner for this stuff, and as a rough guide, you use about a 1 inch strip for every golf ball sized amount of filler. As for sand paper, with any brand of filler 150 is used to finalize it... after you spread your filler and it hardens (around 10-15 min) you want to begin sanding with a used piece of 40 grit to remove the tack layer, and knock it down a lil, and then go to a new peice of 40, sanding WITH body contours, while trying to maintain an "X" like sanding pattern. when finished with 40 move up to 80 grit to remove the 40 grit scratches, and then, if you made a mistake or your bondo is low, now is the time to use the fiberglass filler, which is that light weight stuff (forget what they call it) after you sand that stuff down lightly go back over your worked area using 150 grit and a scotch pad, using the scotch pad as your flexible block, light because we just want to remove those 80 grit scratches because they dont make the paint look good... A men with the 3m stuff, and remember to grind away paint from an area you are going to work on, and if possible, bump the dent out. Hope this helps

NoItsNotForSale

iTrader: (1)

One can of guidecoat will do many many cars.

I hope you know how much work you will be getting into. Thats alot of blocking and if your not good at blocking you will have an ocean of waves.

And black paint will show the slightest imperfection.

Derek The Great

ah ya, one can of that should last a long time... you just wanna spray that stuff on light, to expose the high spots and show the low ones

NoItsNotForSale

iTrader: (1)

Its not a spray its a smear on dry coat. You could do the same with a 99 cent can of black paint.

Derek The Great

o that smear on stuff... i used it once never liked it, they actually make cans of guide coat and thats what i use, but i supose you could use black paint

NoItsNotForSale

iTrader: (1)

I like it because you can use it when your wetsanding too. I have never used the spray stuff can you use it when wetsanding?

Derek The Great

i wouldnt, the grit is too fine to remove those big particles of paint, its a feel thing for me, if i dont feel as much resistance i move on. how good does that stuff work when wet? i never tried it wet

NoItsNotForSale

iTrader: (1)

It works good after you smear it on then hit it with water most of it washes away, but it makes the fine scratches you cant see black.

Derek The Great

ah i c, what grits do you use when wet sanding clear, if it is important to me i start in 800, then go 1500, then 3000

NoItsNotForSale

iTrader: (1)

oh yeah.

Rabbitt

Alrighty.. I do have a big dent that has been pulled (previous owners) the best it is gonna be... would using Rage be a good idea at all? or should I get a more lightweight filler to skim the car with?.. I only want to buy one kind of filler and just get a gallon of it.. The reason i want to skim the car is because i do want it to turn out to look good... I dont want to see a bunch of little low spots after its all said and done...

how about black rattle can of primer? the guy at Autobodystore.com (Len) told me to use a can of white primer and 'dust' my black primer as a guide coat when i go to blocksand my KOSEAL II...

Also, yah, I know this is a !!LOT!! of work, but i want it to turn out good, as i said...

Another question.. I need to put some body filler on the passenger's side quarter... I went to have some cancer fixed (took a good part from junker at a yard) and it seams they really messed up when lining it up.. i need to grind down a couple of spots that are too high (as shown in the pic) and i need to apply filler to level it all out.. where the qp flares out to make the lip.. it feels like it dents in a bit.. how would i got about sanding the filler down to be even with that and look stock?

Thanx for all the help guys, i couldnt do it without you

Rabbitt

This is my first bodywork/paint job.. never block sanded before, so this is quite an adventure.. hehe

Firebat

iTrader: (7)

why do you want to put an entire coat on the car?? just wondering...

sasser43

Its only a light coat and then he'll sand the whole car so most if it comes off. Where the body filler is left is where the low spots are in the car.

So basically, its a sure way of filling in every low spot in the car because most are hard to see.

Rabbitt

anyone have any ideas on how do that fender lip? and does anyone have any tips for blocksanding and such?

91bluemetalicRS

Rage is what 99 percent of body shops I venture out to use.

How bad are the panels on your car. most cars wont need to be entirely wipped?

NoItsNotForSale

iTrader: (1)

In the spot you have marked is the mud too high or the metal?
If its the mud just take it down some. If the metal is too high time to get a hammer and go to work.

NoItsNotForSale

iTrader: (1)

Its also a sure way to get a whole lot of cracks with the smallest
ding. I would only reccomend this for show only cars. I was caught out in a hail storm and my car had hundreds of dents but I still did not have to coat the whole thing. You need to get a hammer and dolly and knock out as many as you can.

KEVIN G.

Yeah, I agree with NO... I'd only do it if you're going for a showpiece that's not gonna get driven. You can achieve the same thing, with prime and blocking the car multiple times, without as much worry. The first ding or chip you take will **** you off to no end.

Rabbitt

then i should just lay down a couple of coats of epoxy, guide coat it and find my major low spots (besides the one door dent i mentioned before, that is gonna NEED body filler), use filler on those spots, and then use my second primer (3 coats) and guide and block until its perfect? I guess i wanted to skim it so bad becuase black shows everything and I want it to turn out like it was painted by a professional.

So i guess my next questions will be.. what are some techniques for block sanding? Or should i start a different thread? I havent had the chance to do it yet..

hehe, i just got my sanding board in the mail, actually.

Thanx guys

KEVIN G.

Your epoxy is for protection and adhesion... do not block sand your epoxy primer. It will not fill.
Most companies call for epoxy UNDER any repair work... SO get the metal as straight as possible...Epoxy....bump the major areas...RE-EPOXY all bare steel...Scuff all previously epoxied areas...Prime and block....RE_PRIME and block...RE_PRIME and block...(constantly moving to a finer grit with each step.) Wetsand and shoot.

Rabbitt

so, should i put my body filler on top or below the epoxy?

KEVIN G.

Rabbitt

ah, so im guessing 'bump' means use body filler?

Derek The Great

first, a few pointers to keep ya in the right direction, never grind away high spots, always bump them down (bumping means using a hammer and dolly and various picks and spoons required to make a panel straight.) because the metal isnt very thick and after grinding you will most likely have the oil can effect (can push metal in with finger, then pops back up when you let go) An entire skim coat of filler is NOT necessary, you only put filler where you need it, other wise you will be creating much more work for yourself, and when you spread filler, try to keep the spreader at a 45* angle with the part and spread briskly while applying moderate pressure as to put the filler in the low spots.
As for the dings in your quarter panel, since there is already filler there, i would go with a blunt tip hammer and use a heel dolly, but using the dolly off method, which means you put the dolly against an area that you do not want to become low, and id put it to the right of the bondo, near those high spots. hope this helps at least a little...

Derek The Great

you can also keep the refinishing side cheap too... sure for bare steel you would want to use a washprimer as to give the steel rust protection, or when your done with your body work you could just use some primer surfacer stuff, right now PPG products come to mind but i forget the damn product numbers... i know the numbers of the reducer and hardner you will need for the stuff, DT870 is good all around temp reducer, because its cheap really, as you get higher temps like DT885 it becomes expensive... and the hardner required for this primer surfacer is DCX8 the paint mix ratio is 4:1:1, meaning four parts primer, 1 part hardner, and 1 part reducer. now you spray about 3 heavy coats and then this where that guide coat comes in. lightly mist that stuff on and then block in say 240 - 320, your call there, 240 will remove stuff fast, so you may cut through back to bare steel, which means youd have to spot prime the area(s)... when your finished blocking your primer, go back over it with 500 grit to remove all of those rough scratches and then your ready for paint (sure some primer sealer would be nice but this way keeps it cheap) PPG calls ther base coat DBC which is two stage paint (paint, clearcoat) Or you could use DCC which is singlestage (no clear) Use DBC for metallics and pearls and use DCC for solid colors.

Rabbitt

Im using all HOK products (all bought)

Epoxy (two part)
Koseal II primer - requires hardener
BC
CC - with blue pearl

Thanx for the help.. ***, i hope this comes out good.. lol, just gotta take my time

Derek The Great

ah ya thats right i forgot about your earlier post... it seems all the pros use that stuff, must be very nice...

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Just some food for thought, Len on autobodystore.com did his own little test:
edit for clarity:

-> bondo a piece of sheet metal, then spray paint
and a piece of sheet metal that had:
-> primer, then bondo
->other combinations...

and took each piece and hammered it. The piece with bondo on bare metal adhered the best, better then primer first.
(bondo here means filler, not necessarily bondo brand...), and i'm not sure the primer type, but it's worth reading for sure.

Rabbitt

hehe, i hope so... unfortunately, it seems that im going to have to postpone the work on the car for about a week.. some stuff has come up.. just means im gonna have to sand down the surface rust

Derek The Great

bondo only likes bare steel, perferablly steel that has been previously ground in 36 grit, but hates shiny surfaces and refuses to stick to them

heavy_chevy29

you could strip the car down to bare metal and the spray a couple of coats of feather fill(sprayable body filler). them you guild coat it and block it out. them you add additional filler to the bad spots. them prime, block and paint.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

This always bugs me since most fillers are semi water permeable, so I don’t see how filler on bare metal without some sort of metal prep or etching primer first isn’t going to rust in anything but the driest environments.

NoItsNotForSale

iTrader: (1)

Sealer like DP90 over the bodywork seals water out.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

would this mean you couldn't wet sand that filler then?
Then after the bondo, you'd go with sealer, then primer-surfacer for wet-sanding, then top coats? (or switch the sealer and surfacer steps around?)

NoItsNotForSale

iTrader: (1)

Sealer is last before base.

Rabbitt

so, the consensus is body filler on the metal, then epoxy?

oh, and just an update, I've had yet another setback with the house.. fricken plumbing problems.. so im gonna be happy if my car is done before november... really wishing i woulda left it alone until then... Here is a question tho... How long can HOK products sit on the shelf for? I dont want my wets to go bad before then.. and if it comes to waiting until next spring, I wanna know if they will be ok by then...

Thanx for the help guys

paveuk

If you prep your metal super good you can apply filler right on bare steel. but what you should do and i'm doing now, is prep your metal with some good wax and grease remover, DA sand with 80 grit and then apply some epoxy primer. Southern polyurethanes makes some awesome stuff. Then you apply your filler right over the epoxy, no need to sand or scuff it first. And yes you can basically coat the whole panel with a lightweight filler, evercoat is awesome stuff. Keep in mind when you do that you will be blocking most of it off anyways. Here is waht i'm doing. I epoxied, did my filler work on the dents, then gonna apply a poly primer evercoat feather fill G2. Block and recoat after using guidecoat a few times. Then use reduced epoxy primer as a sealer. then you can wetsand and go onto your basecoats and whatever. Just becareful with poly primer because it's a spray filler and will soak up water. So can't let it sit around and you have to have clean dry air from your compressor.