B4Ctom1

http://www.outlawperformance.com/ima...stuff/progress

take a look so far:

FerrMaro

Hmmm...what about light weight carpeting? Has this already been covered? And where would someone go abot finding this?

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

yep, already been covered, ACC makes an aftermarket carpet and it only weighs like 10lbs or so and the factory stuff weighs probably in the neighborhood of 50 or more.

B4Ctom1

wow nice to know!

devianb

Ah, that is some good info, My primary concern is removing weight on moving parts, drivetrain, suspension, and wheels.

cocacolakidd

iTrader: (6)

Moving the battery to the trunk well area is a good weight transfer solution. True the heavy 4ga. cables are weighty, but they are half in front and half in back. This somewhat cancelles the weight transfer. By moving the battery to the rear well area it's 20 odd lbs. off the front, and 20lbs added to the rear area. This is a little adder for traction, and weight transfer.

Cocacolakidd -

FullSendRacing

I'm curious what the difference between stock formula hood and fiberglass. according to NfS, his IROC hood weighed 67.5. I think the formula hood is probably lighter, but can't be too much lighter. VFN fiberglass claims their fiber bolt-on is 18lb, and the bolt-on is 12lb. That's a pretty huge difference.

NEEDforSPEED

hey anyone got some shorty headers laying around they can weigh for me? j/w the diffrents

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

no, but i did weigh the aluminum vs. iron drums, WOW! 5lbs. lighter EACH! 10lbs. less rotating mass!

F-Bobby

my 87 formula, with GTA wheels, 245 50 16 tires, no ac compressor or condenser (the rest of it was still there) no smog, headers, custom exhaust, No emmissions equipment at all, no other weight reduction and me in it (220) weighed in at 3440, and i also had some junk in the car, so it easily could have been 3400 had i cleaned it out.

Spdfrk1990

So about 3200 with no driver not bad.

F-Bobby

yeah and that was with MINOR weight reduction. I also have Power locks and windows. The only things i took out were the air pump and the ac compressor and condenser. Oh and i got a mini starter, so that prolly shaved a few pounds off.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

full power doors only weigh about 3lbs. more than non-powered doors, so.......

f355bird

iTrader: (2)

My formula is 3,100 with a 1/2 tank of gas. Thats without me. Plan to have it below 3,000 this summer.

Spdfrk1990

Alot of people think these cars are real heavy but there are some sport compact cars pushin 3,000 lbs. The cobalt SS is 2,991lbs and the srt4 neon is up there also.

Gladstoneiroc

iTrader: (1)

Lets get all the weights for rotors. I have some new PBR rotors and some iron drums I can weigh later. My reasoning is "if its lighter, I won't break as much of it."

Brand new rear PBR rotor weighs 12.5 lbs (+- .5 lbs)

transam84

I just recently swapped out my inner front steel bumper for an aluminum bumper in my Trans Am. with both front bumpers on the ground and with the impact absorbers still attached to both, the aluminum bumper weighed exactly 14 lbs less than the steel one !!! I thought at first these aluminum bumpers only came on 4 cylinders cars BUT I found 3 at the junkyard so now all 3 of my cars have an luminum bumper and I have one I could sell maybe but for now I am keeping it. I found all the aluminum bumpers in 82-84 cars and nothing newer. bring a magnet to the junkyard to look for some.
easiest way to get these aluminum bumpers off is to remove the 4 bolts that hold onto each headlight assy and get those out of the way, then you can very easily remove the bolts connecting the front bumper cover to the fenders and then presto there is the inner front bumper. it is hel on by 8 15 mm nuts (4 each end), I think it was 15 mm.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

those don't fit camaros by chance do they?

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

The aluminum bumpers were on all sorts of versions of the early firebirds. My ’83 TA had one on it. I believe that the camaros only got them with the 4 cylinder engine, but I could be wrong there also. The camaro aluminum bumper support is slightly different then the firebird one

CamaroCain

Did they also come with rear aluminum supports as well???

DanTheMan_smlk

is there such a thing as "plastic" or lighter weight t-tops? If they exist, how much do they weigh?

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

the support brackets were aluminum.

GM did make lexan t-tops but they were prone to cracking and were recalled, so they are difficult to find nice ones.

transam84

the Firebird aluminum bumper will def not fit the Camaros, sorry guys. 83 crossfire is correct on the lexan t-tops, but be preparred to spend big bucks if you find a decent pair. today I just got a manual sterring gearbox from the junkyard out of an S10 pickup and it is supposed to be a direct bolt in. the 3rd gen power steering gear box weighs 29 lbs with the pitman arm attached and the manual gear box off the S10 with the S10 pitman arm attached weighs 23 lbs so if you wanted to reduce weight and don't mind man steering then this is a GREAT way to loose some lbs in a hurry, 6 lbs diff from the 2 gear boxes plus all the weight you would loose pitching the power steering pump and all the parts attached to it and not to mention one less thing for the motor to turn which would give you a couple more ponies, not like you would feel it though.

transam84

well I was checking out things on Ebay and so I looked at aluminum water pumps. I saw one and asked the seller how much it weighs with no packing and he said 4 lbs and thats for a long water pump. after that I went to my garage and weighed an extra water pump I had on the shelf.this water pump is cast iron and the stock replacement you would get at any autoparts store. this water pump weighs 15 lbs!!! so going to an aluminum water pump will give a guy another 11 lbs reduction in front end weight.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

you probably won't feel it, but i dropped from a 13.98 to a 13.88 and gained 1 mph JUST by taking the ps pump belt off. that's without the weight reduction.

i bought a man box from an s10 off of ebay a couple nights ago. can't wait till it gets here so i can weight it etc.

transam84

MW66NOVA.... I have a project car without a motor so I mocked up the man gearbox I just bought on friday at the junkyard and there are 2 little mods you have to do to make it work. if your standing at your drivers side fender and looking down at the gear box you will have 2 mounting hole on top of the gearbox, the one closer to the firewall needs a slight mod. you will need to pull out the ole angle grinder and grind a slot in the webbing to accomidate the bracket that the swaybar is bolted to, bad description of the brkt but you will know what I meen after you get your old gearbox out. one other very little mod was I had to use a hammer (I know this sounds bad) and dent the frame just slightly enough to make the gear box sit flat to the frame. if I knew how to post a pic here I would do it. if you would like to see a pic of the 2 mods I had to make send me an email to southpaw1969@hotmail.com and I can send you a pic that way. and if you know how to post the pics and you would want to then go right on ahead.
I can't wait to do this swap b/c I want to really be able to see how much weight I am cutting off the front of the car from this swap.

FullSendRacing

Just got recaros last night. they are the speed seats set up for a 4-pt. My stock 84TA vinyl seats weighs 25 without the brackets, and the recaro seats weigh 29 lb each.

jimp2001

my camaro weighs in at 2650 with 1-2 gals of gas in it... bone stock 3.1L V6 and no AC from the factory

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

no way bro. check your scales. they are wrong.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

yeah, i'd like some pics, email me at matt@jamaministry.com

Lo-tec

Nope, my 84 Z has an aluminum one up front. Probably had one in the rear too until I replaced it after getting hit by some bonehead.

transam84

well I had the parts for my man steering swap but today I actually did the swap. it really is not as bad as one might think. almost feels like you have power steering still, just a little bit stiffer. I can still make a 90 degree turn with one hand and I am no fitness gym guru type of person so really not that bad at all. BEST THING OF ALL, THE WEIGHT REDUCTION: I cut 23 lbs off of the front of my car with this swap. my new gear box weighs 23 lbs and the entire power steering setup (pump,belt,gearbox,lines, brkts and bolt) weighed 46 lbs. well I think the next thing on the list to drop weight is to swap out the cast iron water pump for an aluminum pump.
can anyone post some pics for me on this swap if I send them in an email, I am not sure how to reduce the size of the pics.

B4Ctom1

can anyone show me a pic of the part of the bumper which is aluminum, even if the pic is not of the actual aluminum part. I would prefer to know what I am looking for though.


I will host them for you.
send them to my user name @gmail.com

Crall13

Is there such thing as a "good" light weight sub box. I've got two 12's and the box weighs at least 60lbs.

NEEDforSPEED

fiber glass box man....

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

This is the actual aluminum one off of my ’83 TA:

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

What about honey combs??? I took mine off the bumper and it was pretty heavy. probably 10-20lbs if not more. It felt like one of my 25 pounders. I am starting to look into this thread and I am looking for weight reduction for a daily driver.
I am looking into replacing big pieces like hatch and I already have a fiberglass hood (I think). T-tops.

I am also looking into fabing up something for the hatch. The glass is just massive. Anyone have any more info into making your own glass out of lighter materials???

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

that honeycomb stuff is relatively light compared to the rest of the stuff in the firebird nose.

I saved the aluminum assemblies (it’s not only the bumper but the brackets…) but I may in the future just ditch the whole thing and weld something up lightweight to hold the urethane up. My formula was in an accident that sheared the whole assembly off and bent up the front of the passenger side frame rail that made it impossible to put it all back, but instead I just made a very light wooden framework that got screwed inside the nose to support it. Something similar out of some light gauge steel tube would do the trick.

Another thought I’ve been having is that the popup headlights weigh something in the 30# range, making hard mounting some smaller lights and getting rid of the motors and brackets fairly attractive. I wish I knew what the law was about that around here…

Lo-tec

You can buy the rear hatch in lexan. I found a couple of linkings by doing a search on "lexan hatch"on the site. Check this car out:

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/403007/9

firebirdjosh

iTrader: (1)

I took off my rear hatch and drove around and noticed alot of traction issues. 100+ pounds at the rear is a big deal.

B4Ctom1

that is incredible. I dont mind so much because it is my intent to re-ballast the car farther back after it is completed for street and then a different weight for track.

Crall13

How much weight reduction needs to be done in order to make a difference. I'm thinking of Fiberglass hood, and possibly fenders. But if that alone won't make much difference I'll spend my cash on something else (but will eventually get a hood because I'm tired of stock)

NoItsNotForSale

iTrader: (1)

The factory fenders are almost as light as the fiberglass ones not really worth it.

I think this is right but removing 100lbs = .1 at the track.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

JerryWho's car is down to around 2900 pounds. I think by the end of the year he will be down below 2800 pounds. This is a street legal car.

Maybe he will see this post and give the latest weight on his car.

Conv389drv

Somebody was asking about a formula to compare aluminum to steel regarding rotational weight. I did some number crunching with these:

Inertia of a uniform cylinder: I = (1/2)(mass)(cross sec. area)^2

I used that value for inertia in the formula for rotational kinetic energy

KE = (1/2)(Inertia)(radians/sec.)^2

For the rotational speed rad/sec (omega) I assumed 5000 rpm and changed it to radians/sec.

I used a 3 inch diameter, and I assumed the driveshaft weights were 15 lbs for the steel, and 10 lbs for the aluminum. This was kind of arbitrarily chosen, and not too accurate anyway; a lot of the weight is in the u-joints, not the shaft itself. (this calculation doesn't include the U-joints)

I should mention that this is an EXTREMELY simplified calculation, strictly an A to B comparison, of a theoretical uniform object, but it is useful to help demonstrate the relative impact of the driveshaft weight.

Anyway, the energy required to get the steel shaft to 5000 rpm was 77.4 joules; the energy for the aluminum shaft was 51.5 joules. The aluminum shaft takes about 30 percent less energy to reach that speed.

If you assume this happens in 10 seconds, and convert joules/sec to watts, and watts to horsepower, you get about 0.00689 HP for the Al shaft, and 0.0104 HP for the steel shaft. The difference remains about 30 percent. This is the horsepower required for the shaft to reach 5000 rpm in ten seconds.

As you can see, it's not much, but this is assuming NO friction, and this also assumes a uniform cylinder, whereas the driveshaft has its mass at the outermost diameter. If I got really bored I guess I could calculate the driveshaft inertia from scratch, but not tonight!!


This would have been easier to show if I could have pasted MathCad stuff in here, but apparently it's not compatible.


Anyway, this was kind of fun to play with to see the differences between the two shafts from a dynamics point of view.

And by the way, to put the joules value in perspective, if you use
KE = 1/2(Mass)(velocity)^2 and assume your car is represented by a 3000 lb block on a frictionless surface, then to reach 60 mph requires 363,000 joules of energy!


As a disclaimer I should add that all this info assumes that I didn't make any typos and/or F- up the calculation!

B4Ctom1

the hood alone is a huge reduction.

jrmaatta

82-92 Firebird fiberglass parts

That site lists their front end (one piece fenders & bumper) at about 20-22 lbs depending on which one you get (stock or extended). It replaces the whole front end other than hood.



You can also get a 91-92 "Banshee" style front end from them as well. 23 lbs



And they have flat stock-style or Formula-style pin-on hoods rated at 12 lbs or bolt-on at 18 lbs. 4.5" Cowl Induction hood is 15pin or 22bolt-on. Doors are 10lbs each. They have a 4lb rear hatch (I'm thinking that does not include rear window). 2 piece dash is 4 lbs.

I'll definetly be hitting them up for stuff once I get a Firebird to start working on. Luckily I live like 20 minutes away from them too, so no S/H $$$ for me!! lol. As for the front end, in the pics it looks like they don't have headlights, so it'll be even easier for me to convert to non-pop-up headlights since I'll be using the first front end I posted, extended type.

Thank you everybody for gettin' MORE ideas churning in my head!! Even tho I don't currently have a Firebird to work on haha

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Anyone ever see those in person on a car, can they be made to look like the car is not a race car?

For that matter, does someone make a firebird or early TA version (without the full bodywork)?

DuronClocker

iTrader: (1)

While I had my engine out the last few weeks, I cut quite a bit off my wiring harness and removed my heater stuff from the car. The behind-the-dash stuff and my cut-down under-hood heaterbox (which weighed about half of stock) weighed in around 30lbs, including heater core and all ducting behind dash. There is a TON of room behind the dash now as well.

This car obviously will not be driven in the winter any longer, but is still a 100% street car.

I don't remember if I posted above, but my Corbeau Forza seats dropped something like 18lbs off between the two of them from my stock "deluxe" seats (not GTA seats though, step below them, but step above base).

jrmaatta

I'd imagine that with some body work you'd be able to make it look pretty much stock. You would need to fab up some type of mount along the backside - it looks like there are not any stock mounting tabs/brackets. With some time & work, it could look really good and be much lighter than the stock metal front end. There are a couple other company's that sell basically the same thing as well.