Rabbitt

This winter my dad and I are heating the garage with a propane furnace.. if i make my paint booth (in the garage) air tight except for the air intake, should i be fine? or will i make the garage go boom-boom?

the exhaust will sealed to the window wth a fan and filters. I will filter in the intake (obviously) but it will be pulling air from inside the garage because of the whole 'winter' thing.. lol

Boom? or will i be fine?

Rabbitt

FndmntlsOfPimpn

make sure that bieach is 300% air tight our u WILL go boom bomm

KEVIN G.

Also be careful about utilizing inside air when spraying chemicals. You're not only dealing with flammable vapors but fumes.
Your air intake for the furnace should be vented into another area of the home or outside. (kinda difficult to heat 20 degree air, but if you're spraying and suckin' that through the furnace and spittin' it back out to the shop area....)
Try to have everything in a separate room if possible. save your life and lungs

Rabbitt

(hopefully this pic shows up)
This is how i plan to setup my booth if i can do it this winter. The booth will be 100% air tight, the intake will be sealed around the fan and the fan will be always running and it will be double filtered. The exhaust will be sealed 100% to the window, so the only way that the fumes will be able to get out of the booth is if they travel out of the intake.. but i was wondering if that is possible since the fan will be always running (as in, as soon as i start painting , it wont be shut off until after im done painting...)
so, will i be pretty safe or should i wait until spring?

thanx,
Rabbitt

FndmntlsOfPimpn

if u are 100% positive that its air tight youll be ok the fumes arent gonna work there way out of the fan if its always aon you should be good im doing basically the same thing but im sharing the garage with my dads completed 68 chevelle so i reall gotta make sure its tight no oversparay on the award winnign show car or id be killec

KEVIN G.

Where is the furnace output?? As long as you have heated air going in, you'll be ok, the problem with homebuilt boothes is, no one accounts for all the heat they are dumping out into the winter air...
All 2k paints shut down below 50 degrees, and constant metal temp should be around 65-70, so if you're within... you're golden.

Rabbitt

true... yah, it will be a little hard to keep the entire garage heated for a couple of days for me to paint and to let the paint cure with the exhaust fan dumping loads of warm air out of the garage...

i guess i'll be waiting until spring..

thanx Kev

JeffW

i vote for boom.......sorry...

heat the garage up to about 80 - 90 and then shut the furnace off. make sure you moving more air out the window than the fan pushin in the booth or you will have fume leaks. so insure larger fan in window and plenty of filtered intake air. you could just make a wall of filters for exhaust and forget the fan on that window.

even better yet unless you have a boom proof fan push all the air from the garage and out the window. no fan in the window or make a filter bank under the garage door as you exhaust. once you start primer or epoxy coat you will know if it works or not. it is hard to seal every little nook and cranny but it can be done.

to give you an idea, most booths push 12000 - 20000 cfm. most box fans push 800.

once your done spraying leave the fans running, paint will still be fuming for a few hours. once it smells clears up a good bit you can put the heat back on.

good luck jeff

JeffW

garage under house or detached?

Rabbitt

detached

JeffW

thats a major plus since you have not any worries about fumes in the house.

make sure you move the cars out of tha garage and away from the fumes just to be safe. check nothing in the area of the window or it will be colored with overspray. primering is not that foggy but the paint and the clear is real foggy.

where is the door in relation to the booth?

Rabbitt

the sports coupe can be moved, but the '69 definately cannot.. but overspray wouldn't affect anything on it right now anyway, there has been no body work done to it (and every panel is being replaced)

also, there is nothing within 40 feet of the exhaust window

JeffW

if it was me i would get a explosion proof fan, mount that in the window, make a wall of filters for the fresh air intake, seal and tape and seal all the walls to everything, velcor for a door, bench in booth so you can mix paint inside it, spray with the heater running, it should stay running during the entire time.

now the down side to this, the furnace needs make up air. it is most likely pulling air and circulating the garage air to heat. so if you pushing out the window say 2,000cfm you need 2,000 cfm intake into the garage to insure you don;t pull the fumes into the furnace.

you should go for it and just get all your prep done. epoxy prime one coat. not to foggy, do you body work filling ext. put on your 2k primer and all the good stuff, and spray you color coats and clear in the spring when it get above 70 degrees. this way here the foggies and most dangerous part is done without the need for the furnace.

jeff

Rabbitt

that sounds like a great idea.. that's prolly what i will do then . Do you think a large furnace blower will be sufficient for the exhaust?

JeffW

yep a furnace blower would do the trick, don;t forget to filter the air coming in. those furnace blowers can move some mega air.

here is how i did my booth when i did my car. the orange stuff is filter media that i had at work. its your same basic idea. the air intake was at the other end from the filter.

JeffW

you can see the air intake hose in the bottom of the last pic. and at the top of this pic. it was attahced to a blower with filters in it. thing moves some serious air.... too bad it was not airconditioned then i would not have had to wet sand so much. maybe in the dream garage.

VILeninDM

Rabbitt, I hope you know that car temperature has to stay at least 60-65 degrees during the entire process. Meaning the metal has to be warm before you start spraying. It has to stay warm while you are painting and then it has to remain warm while the stuff is drying (~24 hours??, not sure on this one). If you are doing primer/bc/cc, that's a long time to be heating the garage.

Plus you may want to do the math. Warm air in the garage is fine while the thing is insulated and minimal air escapes back outside. But once you start sucking out 4000 cmf, are you sure you furnace will be able to handle heating up the air from whatever it is outside to 60-65?

I just finished building my own booth, but I am waiting till spring to wrap it in plastic and start spraying.

Rabbitt

i was thinking that i would just do my body work and primer during the winter.. but not the bc or clear, that would be spring

GMTech

Are you going to keep it in storage until your ready to spray the BC/CC? Most primers are NOT waterproof. If you use primer as a top coat, you are not protecting the car. If you sprayed the car with an Epoxy Primer (PPG DPLF) then you might be ok because its a 2K primer (catalyst induced) but regular primers will not protect without a topcoat.

Rabbitt

yah, its being stored in the garage.. not too much moisture in there.. i hade the pass. q-panel down to bare metal for about a month or so and not a SPOT of surface rust.. and yes, i will be using a 2k primer

GMTech

Don't forget with 2K primers, if you let if fully cure (1 week) before basecoat, you have to scuff it and re-apply before you do the basecoats. I'm sure you saw that in the Tech Sheets.

Good luck.

JeffW

one week..what paint is that?

hok 2k 8-12 hours if i remember correctly. always read you tech sheets over and over.

good sorce for supplies
www.autobodystore.com
www. hokpaint.com... also links to spraygin depot 3m depot airbrush depot ect ect. thay have about everything you can imagine.

get good 3m tape for masking there is a diffrence, have lots of paint mixing cups to you can never have enought. Gun filter desicant, strainers filters for paint before it goes in gun. 3m guide dry coat. help us straighten the body when using filler. sem spray guide coat for final wet sanding. lots of sand paper.

i did my body work over the winter in the garage also it works great since you have months to get it all correct.

Jeff

GMTech

I don't know what kind of 2K primers HOK sells, I only use PPG products. I was refering to DPLF Epoxy Primer

http://www.pwpaints.com/images/downloads/dplf-p-196.pdf

JeffW

oh ok i see it now read your post wrong.

what i did was wet sand with 600 g before painting my base that way everything was super smooth and the 600g gave it the tooth to hold.

jeff

VILeninDM

My paint shop also recommended the epoxy primer. I don't remember the min time, but max recoat time without scuffing was also 1 week.

You still have to make sure that when you spray you keep everything warm before, during and after. Even with epoxy primer.

JeffW

epoxy over bare metal is always the way to go. 2k sandable is next step. Vilenin hows your project going? when you posting pics.....

jeff

Rabbitt

alright, an epoxy bottom coat, then a sandable 2k.. at what point do u use the body filler? it is fine to do it after the 2k? i mean, im thinkin this is how it goes (correct me please): Lay down epoxy (when sanding is done) let cure, lay down 2k, block sand to find low spots, use body filler and sand and sand until its smooth and even, 2k again, wetsand to make sure its all level and smooth, if its fine, then lay basecoat (this is spring) for 2 or 3 coats, wait until the paint gets tacky (no idea how long i should wait) and then 2 coats of clear?

Rabbitt

VILeninDM

Rabbitt, I am no expert (yet), so I think we should have Jeff look over your steps. I don't know if you saw his posts yet (was it 7 parts or is it more now?), but he did an awesome job covering his paint job which is now complete.

I think for the most part what you said adds up. When you block sand, I am assuming you'll be guide coating between priming. Also I was thinking of doing at least 3 coats of clear for my car. Gives you more protection and more thinkness for buffing out scratches later on. I think Jeff's plan was to do 2 regular cc coats and then 2 thinned cc coats (I don't remember if that's how it came out). Supposed to give your color deeper and wetter look. Might want to check it out.

About all the flash (waiting) times. You'll have to talk to your paint people and look at the data sheets to be 100% sure.

VILeninDM

Jeff, I figured I was running out of time to do anything this year, so I just took my time building a paintbooth inside my garage. I made it bigger than it had to be so it takes up 2 full car bays. This way I have my car parked in it and for now I have the other bay to work on other cars. In the spring all I should have to do is wrap it all in plastic and it'll be good to go.

In the mean time I plan to rebuild my rear end and put 4.10 gears in there, rebuild T56 tranny. Then, depending on how long other stuff takes, I'll probably start doing the car bottom. Get it coated with that black stuff and then start building up pretty much brand new suspension.

I've got all the pictures in my gallery, so check it out. I've got 6 exhaust 20x25 filters. 4 intake micro stuff 20x20 filters. It took me 45 minutes calling local HVAC places to find 3500 cfm blower, so that was cool. Added lights to the ceiling and then put 34 40 watt bulbs around booth walls (yeah, lights are cheap, but hopefully they'll last)

Right now the only thing I see missing is the air filter for the spray gun. Which one did you use? I hear that stuff is kinda important so I am not sure how much one of those is going to run me.

JeffW

cool vil glad to see your still at it.

as for gun filters there are some real nice n expensive stuff out there. i didn;t use that.

i had nice dry air when i painted but i did coil my hose in a cooler of ice to drop the air temp and condense the water out of the air, outta that i had a cheap filter water seperator, and then on the gun i had a desicant filter. i had no water issues doing the ice thing and running two compressors that gave me nice dry air.

if you remeber i had water issues at the start just running my oiless compressor that ran so hard it was a water generator. i put 2 together and the would barly need to run and when they did turn on they pumped up real fast.

so it depends alot on your compressor quality. if your making water you need long metal piped lines(galvanized pipe works well for this. This lenght allows the air to cool and the water to drop so the seperator can remove it. if the water is vapor it will drop when it cools which is when it hits the air outta the gun. and that sucks i seen it.

JeffW

Vil

i checked your gallery nice pics love the booth that is going to work great for you....rabbit check that link also.

jeff

VILeninDM

thanks, Jeff.

Looking at the dates in the gallery, it took about 2.5 months, but I figure nothing is happening this year anyway, so I can take my time, build something nice and use it in the spring as soon as the weather warms up.

Too bad I didn't have my camera when we went to the store and filled up the whole shopping cart with 22 4-foot light fixtures. The look the girl at the cash register gave us was hilarious

How much was the desicant filter? are they the ones for like $80 or something like that

JeffW

the desicant and oil seperators can get expensive 80 - 150.

the ones i used on my gun i got from eastwood air motor protectors i think the called em they were like 9 - 10 bucks.

great last line of defence for clean air.

Jeff

KEVIN G.

Look for a company as well called motorguard, They make some good block sanding products, and some other stuff... But they have an inline "toilet paper" filter that grabs water...
We've used these for years, you gotta watch the pressure goin' in, but they're great.
You can use their special filters or go cheap and actually use toilet paper!!!

JeffW

motorguard thats it but they were blue inside with desicant and a brass filter in it and they turned purple to pink when used up.

jeff

Rabbitt

i checked out some tack cloth (3m, i think) at wal-mart, says its for cleaning the surface.. is that right? do i use surface prep. cleaner with it or before it? also, is it just for between metal and primer, between coats of primer, and between primer and paint? or do i use it in between coats of paint? - i know that may sound stupid, but i wanna make sure!


Rabbitt

FndmntlsOfPimpn

jus to help you out ill psot some steps fer ya real quick

Sand to bare metal
do body work and fill work
epoxy primer
2k primer surfacer
block sand -150 grit
do any small fill work needed with a polyfill filler
primer agin
block sand -320 grit
primer
block sand -320 grit
wetsand -600 grit
base
clear
wetsadn -1500+2000 grit
buff with rubbing compound and wool pad
buff with finnesse it 3 and foam pad
polish and there ya go

VILeninDM

I heard problem with toilet paper is that if you don't watch out it'll start throwing spit ***** into your gun. I actually like Jeff's idea with ice and metal tubing. I think I will set something up like that.

Rabbitt, tack cloth is just what it says. It is a rag that is tacky (sticky) and when you wipe down the car it is supposed to get all the little dust and sanding particles off the surface. When I was doing the hardwood floors in my house, I used those things for the same purpose, but wasn't too impressed. You may get better quality (at least I hope so) if you actually buy them in a auto body store instead of wallmart.

I definitely don't need to use them while you are priming. Surface should be clean, but small specs of dust are not that big of an issue because you'll be sanding anyway. But right before you put bc on there, you really have to make sure the surface is 100% perfectly clean of any particles, or they will end up under your paint. So I would do tack cloth right before doing the base coat, but after that you better have a clean environment all the way till you are done.

Now here is a stupid question. What is the difference between regular sanding and wet sanding? ... and I don't want an answer, "one has water" I mean when would you use one over the other. I know it greatly depends on people's preferences because I am pretty sure some never wetsand last coat of primer before base coat. So what is the actual theory behind wetsanding?

FndmntlsOfPimpn

ok lets say for example are primer is done and were ready to base coat u coula dry sand with 600 or wetsand with 600 i perffer to wetsand because

1.its smoother when finished
2.your paper dosent clog as much you can jus rince it off
3 again the main thing i like is its smoother



Edit: comments on tack rags
there nto very expensive so jus buy a good one from the autobody store for $2-3 use between everycoat of base as the last thing you do and before the first coat use it once more before your first coat of clear then put it away DO NOT TACK YOUR COATS OF CLEAR as it will not be dried enought between coats and it will destroy the paint job