BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

Why cant I use a flux core wire to weld my cage in? Also, my wleder is only 100amps. the direction say to use a 130. will I have a problem using mine or what?

DoBeR

iTrader: (1)

Who says you cant use a flux core wire to weld in the cage???

Im not a pro welder but I dont know why wouldnt be able to use it.

They probably call for 130 amps though so that you can get a good penetration weld.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

what he said..

If you can mig it I would.. dont slack in the cage dep. esp if you have the power to need a cage.

irocbirdbuilder

i use flux core on alot of the stuff i use and never had a problem in the strenght dept. They probaly say not to use flux core becasue of the slag it gives off and gives you spatter on the tubes and doesnt look good. AS for the amps i wouldnt run less then they recommend and dont skimp on something like a cage i had a buddy who half-assed one into his truck rolled it over some rocks and ended up with like 60 somethign stitches in the side of his cause one of the top bars snapped. I would post this on the fabrication board or ask at www.hobartwelders.com then go to the weld talk forums

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

Thanks for the reply guys. I asked because it says in bold print in the cage directions DO NOT USE FLUX CORE WIRE. IT didnt state why though

jaredjames

yeah, why not, same thing really. nice car by the way.

Mathius

If I were you, I wouldn't use flux core. Years ago, when flux core first came out, it had a lot more flux in it. Nowadays there's half the flux there used to be and a lot of so-called flux core wire (even the good stuff by Hobart) doesn't always run well and can cause porosity. Even _with_ a shielding gas, the flux in the flux core wire can cause slag inclusions in your weld if you're not a properly trained welder. Both porosity, and slag inclusions will weaken the weld and could quite possible cause it to break in an accident. In fact, I've noticed a lot of flux core wire is labelled not to use for multiple passes. This is most likely due to the importance of slag removal, much like running arc rods on an arc welder. The local vocational school uses Hobart flux core wire, and they double shield by using an argon mixture (I think they use helium as well, because they do run alumium) on top of the flux core shielding.

Mathius

deadbird

Once metal is fused... it's fused... pits or not. Granted, a soild weld will be stronger than one with pit holes from slag... it's still not just going to crumble like tin foil.
I made a rear tube bumper for my bud's jeep using my aged 70a Cambel Hausfielf flux core welder well beyond it's means of welding thickness (3/16" & 1/4" b.i. metal) and after a little over 16 good yanks of pulling another freind out of mud holes... there's no signs of problems with the welds failing. The tubing has bent some but still...
If you weld it good (enough heat, penetration & fill) it's not going to break like a toothpick. Fusion is the key to a solid, durable weld. You'rre not building a hull of a ship or pipe welding something that need to be watertight, you just need strength. Any weld, ****ty looking or not, as long as it's burnt in good and the metal is fused, is strong. Take a peek at some fork truck welds (especially the safety cage welds).. alot are undercut and pitted yet somehow... forktrucks don't fall apart...

Rage13

:nono: just cause you burn in a weld don't mean its a good weld... and if you have pits and flux pockets it will make it weaker and look like a ****y weld (cause it is ), i've seen a few times people have not been allowed to race because of bad looking welds.
follow the directions, use atleast a 130 amp welder and don't use the flux core wire, theres a reason they tell you not to. that stuff is a pain to use anyway. if you don't do to much welding maybe you should just tack the cage in place and have someone with more experience run the beads on it. you may never need the cage but if you ever do, do you wanna take the chance of it failing?

Rage13

double post..

deadbird

I was presuming Bottled had some concept of welding and wasn't asking as a .. "I don't know how to weld but, why can't I..."

**** looking welds (stop & start, cold & hot all in the same line)generally are ****... no bout adoubt it. If you know how to properly weld to some mild degree, you can make a strong weld using any method.

Having the proper machine with the capacity to weld the gauge of metal is much more important than type used. If you suck at welding... even MIG isn't going to save your -ss.

Mathius

And you're not necessarily going to see damage to that area, either. How long the piece held together is no indication of how well the weld is. It's whether or not the weld stands up to pressure. Most of the time a good weld is stronger than the base metal, however, it's also the place that takes on the most stress. If your friend were to get rear ended by a car, that's where your welding ability will show up, and could be the difference between a dented bumper and a destroyed bumper, and/or worse. They certify welders for a reason, because quality welds are important where stresses are involved.

When I took my certification tests, they certified me up to 4" material. The material was 1" thick and I had to fill a groove between two plates. The welded area was 7", by 1" or so. Once I finished, they sheared off the top and bottom, and then cut an inch off of each section. These 2 inches were bent in half, one one way, the other the other way. If they cracked I'd have failed. Each cut section was checked for pinholes. I was allowed 9 per square inch. When I say pinholes, I'm talking tiny scratches, some of which don't even show up without acid etching. On top of all that you have to have a visually appealing weld, and make sure you get to the root.

I'm not bragging, I'm expressing that the quality of the weld DOES matter, no matter how much you want to argue. Just being hot enough to burn in is not enough or any joe schmoe could weld and I wouldn't want them working on the bridges I drive on everyday.

Now granted, most areas on a car are sheet metal and yeah, any idiot can do it, but I've seen some pretty rough c-notches done on sport trucks by guys who thought they just had to get it hot enough, and they looked terribly unsafe.

AND I never said anything about a flux core welder being only good up to what it was rated. _but_ I will say that if it doesn't put out enoug heat, then you're going to have to bevel, move slow enough to be sure you're burning into the material, and run multiple passes.

Mathius

deadbird

Mathius.. I wan't attacking your post. Sorry if it seemed so. There isn't anything in your last post I don't agree with. You've basically said what I did in my 2 posts with minor discrepancies in opinions.
I've been welding for just over 10 years myself. Never cared about being certified though (since I had any intentions to make a lifelong profession out of it).

Mathius

And I'm not saying that after 10 yrs, you're not a good welder, or that you couldn't pass those certifications, but you're stating your opinion and he's looking for facts. I've seen too many guys come through the school trying their best, and they're just not welders. I certainly don't want to encourage joe schmoe off the street to start thinking he's a good welder because he bought one and practiced with it, but was never shown the proper way.

Take MIG for example. It's entirely possible to create a very good looking weld that looks good to the novice, but they're too cold and just rolled up on the plate, not tied into anything.

I just dont' want to encourage the novice welder to think he can start taking on the world. He asked about flux core welders and as a certified arc, tig, and mig welder I personally don't like flux core welders, and I don't think that the average joe schmoe is going to be able to get positive results with it. The welds can be porous and the puddle difficult to control, especially on the cheaper units.

Mathius

deadbird

It's alright bud.. I question myself constantly when I weld and I know you aren't trying to contest me, just my opinion which, is varied from everyone. Even with time and the jobs I've done, though properly, doesn't make me a great welder.
But, one of the presumptions made to answering was that I said this... I was presuming Bottled had some concept of welding . Given that, I made my comments. Without his responce on what he knows, we're just trading ideologies based upon personal experiences with welding. Regardless, at least, hopefully it's helpful reading to the newbie 'I want to learn by welding ______' person. Which, is something I've seen asked and replied to as 'buy a book, a welder and start learning'. Though paraphrased.. I'm sure you've seen the reply. This certainly isn't the best approach to one who doesn't know the aspects of welding.
Hopefully, I'm sure we can both agree that this is not a craft that can just 'be learned' and 'be safe' by one who has very limited experience in the field. It does require knowledge, skill and applied experience. Both direct and indirect.

jcurrieirocz

flux core welding just is not as strong as a good reg weld thats all.....its proven!

Mathius

Agreed.

I'm of two minds on this when it appiles to cars.

On one hand, it amazes me how many people ask questions about welding body panels. Body panels were just tacked (spot welded) at the factory. All you're going to do to weld on a body panel is tack weld. That's not really any welding.

On the other hand, it scares me when I see guys that say, "Go ahead and practice on some old fenders and get a feel for it before you start c-notching your Ranger."

I'm sure you can see my point here.

But back on topic, I would not recommend flux core wire to a novice to weld a structural piece, like a roll cage or frame.

Mathius

jaredjames

you can always research it, I mean your on the internet right now! so you can always find out how to make a good bead, what it should look like, and how to telll if your penetrating. then practice! Till your tired of welding lol.