Timz2882

iTrader: (1)

Hey guys im almost done repair my friends ramair2 hood and im goin to primer and paint it. now how much paint should i be using to paint this hood? i have to spray the bottem and top. ill probably do 2 coats( one light and one normal) for the bottem of the hood, then for the top ill be doin like 3 coats of paint and 3 coats of clear. or would 2 coats of paint and 3 coats of clear be fine?

also how much hardner, reducer, and primer will i need to do the hood also? im probably goin to use Dupont paint so its not goin to coat that much and its just goin to be standard GM white. the hood is goin on his cuzins 86 firebird with a 350.

also dont know if anyone can help but can anyone give me a ballpark price on what the paint, reducer, hardner, primer will cost? also am i goin to need a sealer for the hood? i think thats the one thing im forgettin or is the sealer for like metal parts? thanx guys.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

Dude, im gonna ask you for a favor. Dont paint it, its not just painting it, there is a science to painting, i work at a body shop man, so trust me. Just take it and let them paint it, they can match the color perfectly and do all the right steps. From your questions it seems to me that you dont know that much about painting, what you will spend on supplies, throw in a little more and you can get it painted a lot better for a little more. Its worth it, i see these jobs every day where "i tried to do it myself and ****ed up, cna you guys fix it for me?" so it ends up costin a lot more.

But if you are ignorant and wont take my advice, heres what ya do...

Dont under any circumstances use rattle can primer. Go to a paint shop and get some good ato body primer, coat the whole hood after sanding it with 220 and gettin it where you want it as far as bodyswork. do couple coats of primer, sand it with 320 and wipe it down with some PrepSolvent, then tack it with a tack cloth, i hope you have a good atomizing gun to do this, get that paint that you want, reduce it so it can flow out of the gun, and lay down a light coat, and give it 5 mins, then do two more normal coats at 5 mins between each. do a third if there is need. wait 5 mins and do clear, dupont clear is 4 to one with hardner ratio, fallow the same process, and do 3 coats, it chould do it for ya, but i will ask you once more to go to a shop and get it painted, as you see its not easy to get a good paintjob, and i didnt even go that deep into it, just basics, there is a lot, temperature, moisture, a lot...

88 Formula 355

He is deff right, I work at a body shop also and if you dont know what your doin all your gonna do is waste your time and money in paint. You might as well go to a good known body shop and have them spray it for you. If you wanna get all the prep work done yourself like he said just go get you some 220 and I lay out a flat black mist coat over the entire hood and then block it all out to make sure that there is no low or high spots in the hood. But as for the spray if u havent done it before, dont, practice on some other type of scrap fenders...

Timz2882

iTrader: (1)

well i think ive found out a really good answer for this. ill never ask advice on this site for body related stuff again. all you guys are sayin i spend money to have someone else do it. where the hell if the learning and experience in that? yeha it shows that you can tell people to quit on what there doing and have someone else do it for you. well **** that. i know quite a bit about body work and very little about painting but know the basics. i was askin simple questions. where in all of what i said did i ask where i should take this hood to get painted? NO WHERE!!!!

i worked in a body shop for the summer and ya know what it was a blast and i knew alot in that 3-4 months i was there.

and its people like you guys who discourage the DIY type guys and get people like me pissed off. seriously who the hell do you think you are?

ive been wastin my time and money on a bunch of things that i love doin. im tryin to get back into body work mainly becuz i know i can do and i know how much it costs to have other people do your work.

i also have a 5 in irock spoiler from Hawks that im goin to prime and paint and put on my car, are you sayin i shouldnt bother and quit and waste my money to have some other person do it?

also i would never rattle can a hood or anyother body part for that matter. i spent $300+ for a nice air compressor from craftsmen 6hp 30 gal tank, 11.9 cfm displacment with 8.6 cfm at 40 psi, 6.4 at 90 psi. the gun im gettin is a Devilbliss hvlp gravity feed gun with an alumin cup so i dont screw up any other jobs i do. and for the price i find that its a very nice piece. the gun

how about this advice, next time someone comes on this board asking for ADVICE and not put downs why not helpin them, becuz you dont know there level of mechanic ablities.

i think im done here, i dont give if a mod locks this.

pasky

Yes unfortunately that seems to be everyones reply here when it comes to someone asking how to paint....im not ragging on the above two posters, they meant no ill will but everytime there is a topic like this someone from a body shop always has to post saying this is too much for you etc.. etc... But don't give up so easily, their are plenty of people on here who didn't take thier advice and did a hell of a nice job on the paint in their vehicles.

Timz2882

iTrader: (1)

thats what i plan on doing. becuz its like people are lookin for the simplest way out of things. im not giving up im just gettin frustrated becuz of some simple questions being asked and i can get the anwsers for them, this is a tech site. im still goin to paint the hood and everything else i plan on painting or doing.

Morley

For top and bottom painting I'd suggest you get 1.5 qts of pigment (base coat) and 2 qts of clear and a qt of primer.

there is no "mystical magic" to painting. just make sure you've done a good prep, sanded out all deep scratches, cleaned throughly with a good paint prep. Take your time. Apply the primer, block sand (wet) that with 400 or 600 grit until smooth. Apply the base coat in at least 2 coats making sure you overlap strokes well. Now, within 24 hours you need to apply the clear.
Cover it well in clear (3 coats) it will most likely orange peel on you, don't worry about it. You can stop there at 3 coats or you can block sand (wet) it smooth with 400 then wash it down good and apply 2 more coats of clear. Let that cure a couple of days and begin wet sanding with 1000, then 1500, then 2000. Use a squeege to remove the sanding residue as you go. Once all of the sanding is done get an electric buffer with foam or terry pads and buff it out with 3M Perfect It rubbing compound, followed by Perfect It polishing glaze. You'll be amazed with the results.

When you buy the primer and clear they'll get you the right amount of hardener. You'll want to get a gallon of reducer too.
I use PPG's Omni paints and a qt of base runs about $16, clear $15, hardener is like $5 and primer is about $15 and $5 for its hardener too and about $15 for a gallon of reducer.

Timz2882

iTrader: (1)

Morley you have anwsered my question, thank you very much. i know ill get orange peel with the paint, im not that worried. but right now as the hood is its pretty damn smooth and scratch free but i still need to finish a bunch of little things to get it to the point were i want to to be.

i did most of the body work on my car and i had a good teacher too. onlything that messed my paint up on my car was the fact we couldnt control the paint booths temps becuz the gases on the other end of the school were broken and gettin repaired. so it was about 105 in the paintbooth, i know it will be no where near that in my garage.

and thanks for the prices, i was hopeing it was goin to cost alot less then when we painted my car , $335 for ppg concept black and all the other stuff. but thanx, im goin to save this post so when i get ready to order the stuff i know how much to get.

Timz2882

iTrader: (1)

hey also will i need a sealer or will the primer just do?

Morley

Just use a good epoxy primer and don't use reducer in it.
$335 for enough paint to do a whole car is a good price, I paid $300 for a gallon of base, primer, clear and reducre when I painted my car.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

Damn, i hate when people like you act up, shut the **** up and why dont you read what i wrote. I told you how it is, what it is and what you should do. But being that i love to do all my **** myself, in the second part of my post i todl you what you wil need, and what to do, from step A to Z, so why u actin up, string that thong out of your *** and get to painting if you wanna paint that hood. Go for it, post a pic so i can see what it looks like.

****ing little sensitive bitches!!

Morley

Off your meds are you?

Timz2882

iTrader: (1)

hey charged350 pull the stick out of your *** and reread my post. your post basiclly told me didly squat, besides some time periods and alittle bit of sanding, everything else i already knew. you acted like you were talkin to someone who doesnt know crap.

and you know what i will post a pic when its done but your goin to have to wait since i dont have money falling out of my *** to just go out and spend spend spend.

---

so yeah anyway, ignoroing the child in the corner havin a hissy fit (charged350). Morley, why shouldnt i put reducer in the epoxy primer? does the epoxy primer dry quicker if you dont, compared to if you do put reducer in it? or do it just not coat as good? or is the reducer basiclly like a paint thiner?

also when i paint the bottem of the hood can i let that dry for a day or so and the flip the hood? i just dont want to like screw up the bottem when i flip the hood.

Morley

I've found (and others have also found) that if you reduce the primer it makes it more like a sealer and if you sand it the base coat will penetrate and lift the primer. An epoxy primer will seal the hood all on its own, they are really excellent paints.

Flipping the hood in the middle of the process probably isn't a good idea. If you could hang it by one of the sides, that would be ideal. If you can't and need to lay it down to paint it, I'd paint the underside (after primering the whole thing) with base then press on to clear coating. Then wait a day or 2 (depending on the temp) and flip it over and paint the top with base and clear.
This way any overspray you get from the final painting will be on the underside and won't matter or detract from the appearance of the car.

Timz2882

iTrader: (1)

well i was thinkin of paint the underside with just the base coat and then flipping the hood when its dryed and then do the top base coat clear coat. thats they way the body shop did my brothers hood for his 91 z28. this will be after i primer and wet sand it smooth. i forgot , should the primer be alittle ruff before paint or does it not really matter? like after its all wetsanded (primer) just use like a scotch bright pad to ruff the surface alittle or no? i just forgot, its been about 2 1/2 years since ive done major body work/ painting.

well right now for holding the hood up, i have a garbage can on one side and the lawnmower on the other side, but the mower is goin in the shed very soon. im tryin to think of a way to hold the hood up but even so i can get under it and spray but if not i dont see how bad it would be to do the base coat under the hood and then wait till it drys and then flip it and do the base/clear. since basiclly the only over spray will be the color and the clear. ya know what im tryin to get at?

so far you've been a great help Morley

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

Well, as you ask all the questions you do, it seems to me that you know didly squat about this topic, if you did, you wouldnt be askin. But regardless, it is what it is and how it is, you can choose to accept it or not.

As for the reason i blew up like that is for your own good, i dont wanna see anyone mess up any part of their car, you can take all the right steps and still it can get ****ed up, i see it every day. I was giving you the other side as the person that has to strip that hood of all that **** you put on it and then i have to charge you a lot more them i would have for a simple paint for the hood. I was lookin out for you man, i never had a person come up to me and not say damn i wish i just gave it to you the first time, but hay i hope it comes out good, for the hoods sake men...

And yeah, i was off my meds,, re-up time that was.....aha

Timz2882

iTrader: (1)

Well most of my questions i know alittle bit about them but not 100% of them. thats why i ask these questions, i know it may sound like i dont know crap but i do, ijust like to ask anyway to make sure im doing it correct and not the other way around. like most of my questions on here are basiclly 50/50, half i know alittle bit about, the other half i dont know crap about. i figured id ask people that have worked on or with the same things im doing, it just makes me feel more confident about myself and not make myself feel worried like if i forgot something.

Morley

It will be bad, you wouldn't believe the amount of paint suspended in the air when you paint, even with HVLP.
One thing I can't stress enough... After applying the base coat you MUST apply the clear within 24 hours or you'll have adhesion problems. That is why I suggested doing the bottom completely (base and clear) then doing the side you'll see most, last.

For the primer, you want to wet sand it with 400 or 600, then clean it, tack cloth it then base coat/clear coat.
Don't use scotchbrite for sanding the primer, only wet sand.

Timz2882

iTrader: (1)

so basiclly first base/clear the bottem of the hood, then do the top. now can i let the bottem it and dry so i can flip it becuz its goin to be kinda hard to do with out flipping the hood upside down to paint the bottem. like can i base/clear it and then give it a day or so then flip and base and clear the top and then enjoy?

Morley

Yep, Base/clear, let dry a day or 2 then flip it and do the same.

Timz2882

iTrader: (1)

okay thanx again, all i need to do is get paid next week and then finish prepin the hood and then the big thing, clean the garage out even more hehe, cant wait, i know if i take my time and not rush things i should do a pretty damn good job.

FastElectrics

Looks like most of your questions have been answered..
Well, I'm sure you probably have it already.. but just checkin to make sure you have a good fresh air supplied mask or hood for the base & clear.. Them Isocyanates are not fun to deal with later in life. Sounds like you got a good line up for a gun.. Which one are ya looking at? The "Plus" guns are really nice.. But the New Sata Digital RP's are top knotch.. and they meet the HVLP requirements too. Post pics of the hood when your done.. Have fun.. I love painting.

Morley

He is absolutely right about needing a resp. it has GOT to be a forced air set up too. They cost about $450, but I have found a much cheaper solution that I used for painting my car. Total cost is between $80 & $140 depending on if you have the "main" ingrediant.

Timz2882

iTrader: (1)

yeah i havent found a good resperator locally for cheap, im goin to check at the paint store when i go to but the stuff to see what they recomend. ive looked in a few catalogs but all are the forced air ones and the others are just the crappy like $25 ones.

Timz2882

iTrader: (1)

what do you guys think of this mask. i know its not the large very expensive ones but from what they discribe it should get the job done when its worn properly. http://www.eastwoodcompany.com/itemd...Dep_Key1=Paint

FastElectrics

That mask is only good for spraying your epoxy primer.. it will NOT protect you from the harmful Isocyanates. It needs to be fresh air.. perhaps if it's any cheaper.. I wonder if renting a scuba tank would work.. lol... it would be a lot heavier. but it would probably work.

Morley

45 minutes of air, tops, no good. No filters have been OSHA approved for use with Isocyanates, you must have forced air.

Morley

Check your PM's.

Timz2882

iTrader: (1)

hmm sounds like im screwed, either i get to hold my breath or spend $500 for fresh air. ill look around to see if any places will rent things like this out. other wise ill end up using just that mask. i know that stuff is harmful but how harmful is it? like would it hurt to be in it for the time it takes to paint the bottem of the hood?

FastElectrics

I don't think you will smell something.. but the effects of Isocyanates are chronic (not right away), unless you have been sensitized to it.. but generally it effects you later in life.. not a plesent thing.. a friend of mine lost three of his friends to that chemical.. back when they didn't know better.. but today we know better.. and it's not worth the risk. Heck if you had worked at a body shop.. perhaps they might be able to help you out in some way..

Timz2882

iTrader: (1)

damn, well im not sure if the shop i will help, i worked at the body shop in school. it is a vocational & technical high school. i know the body shop teacher but dont know how much he will be able to help.

Charged350

iTrader: (1)

Just get that 3M respirator, its fine, i dont even use a respirator sumtimes, i know i should, but hay, you dont need any scuba gear or whatnot, just that respirator is fine, adn inbetween coats, jus go outside and grab sum air, thats all..

FastElectrics

:nono:

84_berly_84

LOL

thats the same mask the painter uses at our shop
he has a fresh air suit but he only uses it on all over jobs he says it too hard to manuever around in it and climbing up and down ladders

Morley

If you want to throw away your health/life that's fine, but don't go telling others to do it.

FastElectrics

Important Information you should probably read..

http://www.safetyline.wa.gov.au/page...idwswa0063.htm

http://www.dot.state.ny.us/progs/saf.../urethanes.pdf

http://www.resene.co.nz/comn/safety/lacquers.htm

Timz2882

iTrader: (1)

after what fastelectrics said about his friend losin 3 friends to the chemicals in the paints, ive been lookin at everything as far as resperators and none say they will protect. i think ill have to rig something up like what Morley sent me in a PM.

also at my school some people will use the regular resperators while some will use the fresh air force thingy. i guess its how much you value your life i think. i dunno, im kinda in a 50/50 kinda state right now, weather to make what Morley told me or just use the resperators and change the filters alot.