Hi. I'd thought I'd introduce myself before I started asking any questions.

My name's Nate, I'm 16 years old, and I just recently started getting into cars (more specifically, 88-92 Firebirds). I have so many questions about them but no idea where to start. This seems like a friendly community of people and a good place to start so I registered and here I am.

Anyway, a few days ago I went to check out an 88 Firebird which was well in my price range (the guy was asking for $1350; I have about $2000 saved up). My friend and I went down to the place to have a look, and when I first saw it, it looked great. No visible damage to the body, except some rust on the exhaust pipes.

After we checked out the car a little bit more, we found many problems with the interior. The dashboard had a couple of spots that were patched with duct tape to cover up what I'm guessing are either burns or "tears" in the dash. From looking at the exterior roof, it appeared it was in pretty good shape, but we noticed that the headliner of the car was completely ripped off and the driver's side part of the roof had extensive water damage. We also noticed that the floor of the backseat was drenched in water which led me to believe there was leakage from somewhere in the roof. There were more problems than just these few, but the other ones are fairly easy to fix and aren't that important to me.

Anywho, my question(s) are related to all of these problems. First of all, must the whole dash be replaced if there is a hole or rip in it, or is there some kind of "patch" or part that can make these somewhat inbotrusive or unnoticable? Duct tape covering holes in the dash definately aren't unnoticable.

Secondly, my friend told me that although water damage can be fixed, it is not worth the cost. I wanted to know if this is true. I don't want to think a problem is bigger than it really is if it keeps me from getting the car I want. The water damage on the headliner did look pretty bad, but I don't have much knowledge as far as that is concerned. Also, what's a good method of finding out where the source of water is? Once I find where the source is, can it be easily repaired? What's a common way of repairing water damage?

Well, that about covers it for now. Thanks for taking the time to read my post and hopefully you guys can answer some questions for me. Thanks again.

 

Welcome, Nate! First of all, it's great to see that you have excellent taste in cars for someone your age.

As far as the dashboard goes, you can buy a 'replacement' dash that will mount over the existing dash. I've seen this in places like Hawks (sponsor) or ClassicIndustires.com. Classic Industries has a Dash cover for $79.95.

Is the car t-top or not?

A new headliner install is easy enough and is about $150-180 (new board already covered in fabric).

The water damage repair might be a 'simple' as new weatherstripping. The best way to find the source of the water damage is to turn the hose on and see where it leaks.

Good luck with everything.

 

welcome. i have noticed that in 2 of my 3rd gens that had no headliner had a rust spot on the driver side, i never figured it out, but neither leaked water. the back floor could be cause the window was left down some...or all the way such as what i did tonight . does it smell mildewy inside? $1300 sounds like a good price as long as it runs good. is it a v6 or a v8?

 

kerryismygirl89, thanks for replying.

So does this dash cover basically just fit over the original dash? Do you think it would look just as good or better than the original dashboard?

As far as finding the source of the leak, I'm pretty sure that's gonna be kind of hard to near impossible to do, because the car isn't mine (I was just test drving it and checking it out) and the dealer seems like a "not-to-willing-to-let-me-mess-with-his-cars" type of person. That kind of makes me edgy about even considering buying the car from him. However, I really hate to see such a beaut sit and rust. It's the exact color (black) and body style I wanted also.

The car is not a t-top so no need to worry about that. With the headliner, would I have to rip out all of the yellowish lint crap that's on the ceiling of the car as well, or does the new one just go over the old (I'm also asking this because my mom's Grand Am lost it's headliner fabric a few years ago cause it was starting to droop, so we ripped it all off and now it's just a ceiling full of this yellowish colored lint)?

Thanks a lot for your advice. I appreciate it.

89cmrodriver, thank you as well for replying.

I noticed the same observation, as the driver side did seem to be the only area where water damage was showing. The passenger side seemed to be good as new. At first, I thought maybe the driver side window was leaking (the window was up all the way, and it probably has been for some time... the car didn't seem like it have moved for a while) but after a little more thought, I figured it was more probable that the hatch was leaking since the whole driver side seat/floor would be wet as well, instead of just the backseat floor.

As far as the smell, there definately was a peculiar odor in the car when I first step in... but it definately didn't bother me because I didn't complain about it smelling bad. The car air had definately been sitting there for a while, as it was extremely "stuffy" and thick when I got in it after first opening the car door.

$1350 at first seemed like a reasonable deal for a V6 (2.8L TBI) and it did run very well, but I'm still kind of put off with some of the problems with the car. Like I said, there's some other problems with the car that aren't related to the interior. First and biggest on the list would probably be the exhaust leak that it has. I noticed that the back fenders are starting to rust. The hood release had been pulled out of it's socket so the hood won't release unless pryed open with a screw driver. The hatch "springs" are old and crappy, so the hatch never stays up when you release it (sorry, I forgot what they are called, but the keep the hatch open so you don't have to hold the hatch while putting something in). The tires definately need to be replaced as well, because the tread is almost completely gone.

I really dunno about this car... like I said, I'm only 16 therefore budget is the #1 barrier keeping me from just taking the girl and fixing her up real nice (#2 being time, gotta go to school + work). On my limited income of around $400 a month, I'm really trying to find the best price to value ratio when I buy my first car so this would definately seem to be an unwise choice based on that idea. There's just something about the car though that makes me wanna buy it and take it home and fix it up, sort of like if you see a puppy that's got no home and is really sickly or starving... you just wanna take it home and see it happy and healthy.

Anyway, thanks again for giving me the advice (and sorry for the long post). I'll definately visit these forums more often.

 

All the headliner is going to be is a cloth covered fiberboard. Underneath (above) that is just gonna be the roof metal. You can buy a complete one for the above quoted price, or you could score the fiberboard from a junkyard (im assuming yours is shot) and cover it yourself for cheap. And welcome to the boards.

 

Ohh ok. So what your saying is all that crap on underneath the cloth sheet is actually another "layer" that should be able to be pulled off?

 

The dash cover fits right over the original dash. The description says it doesn't require any special tools or anything. It's made from ABS and doesn't crack under extreme temperatures. I can't say from experience as I still have my original dash. It probably looks better than the original, though - lol.

As far as the 'leak' goes - One time, my back passenger's floor was soaked. We had a huge amount of rain and it must have come in around the window. I have new weather-stripping and yet, it was still soaked back there. So, it's not necessarily a body problem. It could be as easy as adjusting the glass on the windows or having the 'striping replaced around the back hatch.

The yellowish 'stuff' that's still on the ceiling is the original headliner board. Sounds like only the fabric was removed from the headliner. When replacing it, I'd say remove all that stuff as the new headliner board will fit better. (For your Mom's Grand Am - remove the yellowish board carefully. If it's still in decent shape, it could be recovered with material and reinstalled.)

The smell's probably 'normal' for the car having been sitting and not driven for a while.

The 'struts' (to hold up the hatch or the hood) are easily, and inexpensively, replaced.

If the car is the colour and body that you want, and the price is reasonable (which I feel it is), and it runs well, and there's no major body damage or anything - go for it. It sounds like you've fallen in love with this car already. I'm sure you'd enjoy fixing the few things it needs fixed.

 

To me it seems if you have $2k you should look for a little better of a thirdgen. I went to autotrader and did a search for 88-92 firebirds for under $2k and it came up with 77 results. I looks through some of them are there are some pretty good deals, the only real thing is going to be paint and mileage.
I would keep looking if I were you, just make sure you really do your homework. You dont want to get something and a few months later find something better for the same price.
I looked for over a year to find my GTA. 89 perfect int, perfect body, paint WAS great and only 52k miles. Most of the time it REALLY is worth waiting.

Brian

 

Welcome aboard
I bet the leak is comming from the hatch hinge or the top of the hatch seal. I would open the hatch up to see if it has any play in it and to check the weather stripping. Good luck with obtaining the car

 

SAVE. I got MY 2.8 V6 Thirdgen, with a more or less mint body, no leaks, etc., for 1300 CANADIAN - you should be able to do much better then I did. I've driven it almost 2 years straight, only had to replace the starter and a new catback (aside from regular maintenence). Good luck!

 

hey nate welcome to the boards! i would definitely wait and look around for some better deals and better cars. there are so many thirdgens out there tons of 88-92 firebirds if thats what you like. look on autotrader, ebay, and the classifieds here to get a feel for the prices and what you like. do you know how long that car has been sitting? to me its sounds like it has been sitting for awhile. long enough for the dash to crack, water to get in it and not cleaned up and for the hatch struts to go bad. it sounds like its sitting in some guys yard rotting.......so dont hurry cuz i dont think its going anywhere real fast....and you could probably talk him down on the price if you really wanted it. plus, a black firebird is not gonna be hard to find dude. you can do better i think. i wouldnt pay 1350 for that car........i havent seen it, but a v6 88 bird id pay 500-600. thats just my opinion good luck!

 

Hey Nate, I know were a couple are at here in GA, if you are any where nere here. Not the color you want but a good paint job will fix that. both are 84's though one is raged out and he wants 350 for it (its a 305, a little body damage and a trany going south) the othe looks to be mint I havn't stoped to look at it but I am guessing above the 2k. Yea an 86 2.8 I would try to get him down to an even grand especially if you are paying cash. I had one for a few weeks that was black hardtop V6. Bought it with a bad head gasket. FIxed the head gasket, and the bottom end was making noise and I needed the money so I sold it for what I had in it. I bought the thing for 500 and he throgh in the gaskets to do the job. The car only had 56k on it, a straight body and good interior, and a little rust, it was from up north, I should of kept it. so Like said above keep looking if he want budge but its still a fair price. But if its a car lot he probalby has only 500 in it. Take the car for a test trive to a car wash and hit with the pressure you will find the leak.

New carpet would be best with the problems you have described 200 bucks or less. Head liner 150. 3 days of your time cleaning up the car. 300 to get the seats re done if you are lucky. Assumming new seals hatch is like 30 and the rest is like 200 or so(don't know on a hard top) So if you can get the car for 1k and put another 600 in it assuming paint is good and motor is good you will have a good starter car. Some POR-15 for the floor pan to kill the rust. And a set of subframe connectors (198). So for 2k you will have a good car, and after working all year next summer you can have it painted LOL.

How is the headlights do they go up and down right?

A turbo 1400 just joking.

Post some pics if you have a dig cam.

I bought my car for 2k and an escort I had 700 in 5 years ago. It was I feel a really good deal. I haven't had 1 bit of engine trouble out of it. I did have to build the tranny but thats a 700r4 for you. The only down fall is it had a few miles on it then at 100k and it has 184k on it now. But is a daily driver not a show car.

 

you said the rear quarter panals are rusting???????????? RUN!!!

RUN AWAY FAST. i paid 2k for my 86 v6tpi and all it has wrong with it are:
shot headliner (fixing yesterday today and tomorow)
needs new springs/shocks
MIGHT have a srearing prblem(springs should fix, if not possibly tie rod.
and it had a rebuilt engine!


if you do buy the rust bucket don't pay more then a grand.you will probably be sorry

Best of luck in your search, welcome to the best BB on the net and the coolest felowship of car owners, and thankyou for not buying a "a dope civic yo!"

 

Wow, thanks for all the replies guys. I didn't realize how welcoming of a community this was.

I'll start from the top:

Man, you got a steal! Very nice.

Yeah, that's what I had figured what was causing it as well. Thanks for your support, too!

Well, that's a pretty accurate statement... even from just hearing my story. The guy seems to have started his business right infront of his own house, and the cars are so terribly smooshed together that it was hard just to get inside of it. I'm talking about maybe a foot or less of space between one car and the next. It's pretty apparent that the guy doesn't care that the Firebird is just sitting there rusting away (or really any of his cars, for that matter). If he did care, he would take some more pride in the work that he's doing and at least wash the exterior of the cars so they look presentable.

Although I'm not sure how accurate it is, my standard catalog of Firebird (1967-2002) says an '88 V6 base Firebird would be worth around $1200-$1500, depending on how good of shape it is in. A barely drivable version of the same car would be around $400-$720 (the car has it's problems, but it's far from undrivable).

Thanks for the welcome!

Actually I'm pretty close if you live in southern GA--I live in Pensacola, Florida which is right on the tip of the peninsula (bordering Alabama). That's a pretty nice deal for those 84 if they are still in somewhat good condition.

Yeah, that was another problem with the car that I just overlooked (it didn't seem that important to me). The headlights are stuck in the up position and I'm not sure how that can be fixed.

If I can find someone with a digi cam, I'll be sure to go back and take some pictures if they guy will let me.

Forgive me, but I'm assuming the quarter panels are the areas right above the wheels, right? If that's what you mean then yes. However, the rust is just now starting to build... at this point it hasn't gotten very far at all. It seems like it could be stopped now before it gets too large to repair, but again I am still just getting my feet wet with the whole car scene so if someone can just confirm this is very bad then I will take your advice.

Ughnn... Just the thought of getting a Civic makes me wanna puke. It seems that car (and Rustangs) is the only frickin car that people drive around here. Probably more than half the kids at school drive some sort of Honda. Makes me sick.

Anyway, thanks a lot guys for all of your imput. You've all been very helpful.

 

Check out those rear quarters, tap your knuckles around the car to see if its a bondo queen. IF I Recall Correctly "IIRC" bondo should make a deep thud when you tap on it. I didnt do that when I bought my 85 SC, and well underneath the layers and layers of bondo there was some major damage
Check it out reall good, look under the tire wells to see if there is any rust going thru and check under the passenger compartment for any rust holes.

This is what was underneath 2lbs or more of bondo on mine. In the pic it doesnt look that bad but in person it looked awful.

 

How did you manage to get the Bondo off?

 

I used a Dual Action sander with 80 grit to get it all off, there also was damage to the bottom half of the drivers door.
If you can get a carfax report done, its a must have thing to do.

 

what ive learned, search, search, search, and just for chits and giggles search some more

and never settle, only settle if its not exactly the color u want. i thought hmmmmm, 1600 for a formula 350 tpi is awesome! i can fix the rust later! it dont matter how ugly it is cause its fast....

2 days after i started having many problems with it and now im selling it to a close friend so i can still be able to work on a thirdgen, after putting a good amount of money into, it, maybe 2 grand in parts and 5 grand for mechanics to rape me a new one and teach me to learn and do it myself.

happpy huntin and good luck

 

Being in the south, you should be able to find a car with no rust for the money you have to spend. Fixing headlight motors, headliner, weatherstripping and stuff like that is relatively cheap and each project can be done in a matter of hours. Rust is a totally different proposition. Plan on spending lots of time and lots of money to repair rust damage.

Besides, now that you've found thirdgen.org, you're probably going to be on here a lot and you'll figure out that you really want a V8 car. Trust me.

 

he has a very good point........it is not likely that i will drive a v6 thirdgen(unless its a TWIN TURBO....and thats just different!)

 

Also, you can check for bondo using a magnet. Run the magnet along side of the lower part of the fenders, quarters and doors. If the magnet doesn't stick, its bondo,

 

That's a VERY good point - so good of a point, in fact, I made a very BIG, very s*hitty image to reinforce it. The insurance diff. isn't that much, and saving a few extra bucks is DEFINITELY worth it...some may tell you differently (Doward and his turbo included )but these V6's are slowwwwwwwwwwww!

 

slow but can be beautiful


I'd still get the V8 preferably with a TPI in it. These lil 6's need more power.

 

Yep, I've owned both, a v6 and v8 tpi Camaro, and let me tell ya, there's nothing like dropping the hammer for the first time on a v8 Camaro.

Also, did you check the floorboards of this car?

I'd go with everyone that says to keep looking. I bought a v6 Camaro probably in better shape than this bird in question for $500.

Now my 86 IROC, I paid $2500 for. 305 TPI, t-tops, auto, 3.23 posi rear, 4 wheel disc brakes, 83k miles. Paint is original, but has normal fading, chips, etc exected for 17 year old paint. No rips in the seats, but the interior could use a good cleaning. Now I don't know for sure, but everyone that rides in the car swears it has a shift kit. And it has an aftermarket exhaust. Dont know what kind, but the i-pipe is mandrel bent so its most likely not stock. I think I made out good with this car.

 

Yeah... the general concencous seems to be "look for a better deal" which I'm going to. My friend also said the V6 seemed waaaay slower than his 305 V8 in his Camaro.

You might see him on this board now, by the way. His screen name is 305RSlc.

 

you can either buy a mint car

or spend even more money and turn a piece of **** into a mint car



i've done both, and i recommend the first route...

work your butt off for another year, save up a good $4000-5000, and buy something you won't have to worry about....

 

Well, that doesn't sound quite like such a feasible option. I want to get a car for other reasons than just to have a car. I need some transportation as well, and I can't rely on my parents or friends to drive me everywhere.

 

well to be honest 9/10 times you wreck your first car so If its a peice and you get some good experience fixing cars then a fix er uper isn't that bad. And you would hate to wreck a perfect car. But yea, look for one in the 2k range you will find a good one, ignore paint and inteior, That can be fixed easly, don't get body damage or rust. Try to get a V8 if you can. Like I said before interior can be redone easily and a paint job will be aroulnd 1k. but rust and body work gets expensive.

I'm in the process of redoing my interior right now. Check out my cardomain site on page 5 you can see this car although t-top has never had any water damage.