wpg_bird

Alright, right now I own a V6 86 firebird with a T5. Now I would love to keep it and do a 350/t56. The only thing is my car is a hardtop and I wouldn't love anything more than cruising with the t-tops off. Now if I get a t-tops car to do the same thing, and weld in a good set of sub frame connectors, will I have the same strength in the frame as my hardtop does?

Sitting Bull

It will be fine.

wpg_bird

really? so with subframe connectors you have the same frame durability as a hardtop. I've heard horror stories of paint cracking around the t-tops. But if subframes completely fix that problem then that sounds good to me.

luvrgodd

i havent even put in my subframe connectors yet, and i have never seen any paint cracking by my t-tops. and i have the origional paint from 82. i think you will be just fine

okfoz

I think in some ways the hard top cars seem to crack more easily in the upper rear corners of the door opening than t-tops. I have seen very few hard top cars WITHOUT the crack, but I have seen only one or two T-top cars WITH the crack... Heck I have seen V6 hardtop cars with a HUGE crack in the corners...Go fig

The T-top cars Flex alot, and you can really hear them creack & groan, SFC's will fix this. The second benefit of SFC's is they lower your center of gravity (Great for handling BAD for Drag Racing.)

John

nolanr0413

dont get t tops they look so horrible. Just get another car with t tops before you destroy a perfectly good car with out them . Its getting really hard to find good cars without t tops , everyone and their best friend wants them, please dont get t tops.

okfoz

PERSONALLY,
I really do not care for the T-tops, I never use them, I have pieces of headliner cardboard painted Silver on the top side to keep the sun off of me...

If I had a choice I would not care wether or not to have t-tops, I like them ONCE in a blue moon. The ONLY reason I like them on my car is becaseu it makes the car slightly more valuble.

John

1986sc

i agree with nolanR ! thats why i just bought a 92 convertible :lala:

FruityOne

I know that SFC's do have weight, but I have NEVER heard that they weighed so much as to affect the COG. And the added traction benefits would far outweigh the lower COG I'd think.

It just seems odd that they would affect the COG so much, please explain this to me. I understand that SFC's increase chassis stiffness.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

What's up with that? I think hardtop and convertibles look worse than T-top cars do. Besides if he wants to get T-Tops no one here has a right to stop him. I would never presume to tell anyone what they should get on thier cars. Whatever makes you happy. If we all want T-tops then that leaves more hardtops for you. I would never demean myself by begging and pleading for someone to change thier opinions on car options.

That's like flaming people for getting a V-6. I wouldn't do it. but if you are happy with it then I would never tell you to rip that out and put in an 8. Or to sell your 6 and buy an 8 because it's to hard to get a good V6 car or something like that.

I would agree that you shouldn't cut up a hardtop to do a T-Top conversion. If it doesn't get done exaclty right then you will not be happy with the results. Good luck on getting what you want.

okfoz

You add 50# to the bottom of your car it can only lower the CoG.
Whether or not the Butt dyno could tell or not, it is a physical fact.

BECAUSE your adding a little weight to the car, you might not notice the CoG effect.

Its the same as taking the t-tops off, you lower the center of gravity slightly because there is less weight on top.


John

blacksheep-1

When we autocrossed t-top cars, at first we would pull out the tops because we thought it would save weight up high. After some experimentation, (by putting our hands in the seems and driving the car) we always left them in, reason was the car body was flexing like crazy, it was horrible-bad. So for us, we left the t-tops in because it added at least some strength, even though the weight killed us. In my opinion it was a lose -lose deal. Now I understand you can add subframe coonectors to correct that, but we were autocrossing these cars in a stock class so we couldn't. So personnally, I hate them, and I haven't even started talking about the leaks, and I speak with experience because my current 83 has t-tops along with a ***** I once owned, When I went to purchase a new 2000 SS camaro, I searched everywhere for a non t-top car. Having a car that hard-sprung with t-tops..... what an abortion.

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

My T-Tops don't leak. They never have. I also have found there is a science to putting them in. If you don't have them in there just right they will leak.

I do agree with the noise and the flex part. SFC's are a must for that.

wpg_bird

thanks for the input so far guys. I would never do a t-top conversion, so don't worry about that, lol. I do however think i'm going to sell my car and buy a t-tops car to start my project. From what i'm hearing the first thing done to that car will be SFC's. I just wanted to make sure that a t-tops car with SFC's will hold up as good as a hardtop car without.

PS

My V6 does have the cracks in the upper rear corner of my windows. So that just does to show how easy it cracks there.

Dan

Dan88IrocZ

I have nothing against t-tops. I like t-tops.

To be honest, I don't like the fact that my Iroc is a Convertible. I don't like Convertibles, never have & probably never will. I hate driving with the top down, I don't like being 100% visible like that.

I just like the lines of a 'vert better than a coupe. :hail:

If I were to buy another 3rd gen, It'd definetly be another 'Vert.

85SportCoupeto89RS

Noone's mentioned Targa tops yet
I like t'tops and verts. If you properly adjust them and have good weather stripping then your t's shouldnt leak.
My 82's leak like a water fall, but um I have no weatherstripping, windshield, or doors :sillylol:

bad_ta_05

t-tops are good on nice hot sunny days specially when u have no ac like me but its a pain to keep them from not leaking and they make it squeek alot and most people get some wind noise inside their car at speeds with t-tops. i think t-tops look good as long as the rain deflectors are in good shape. but alot of the time they are all ate up adn get stuck in the top part of the door like mine use to. and once ur car leaks it is really really hard to get that smell out of it. but if you can find one that doesnt leak, doesnt smell, doesnt have wind noise, and put sub frames on it then u should be ok and you will probably be happy with it. also make sure its not rusting around the t-bar

83firebirdS/E

:rockon: Rock the Peg!!

Sitting Bull

I have to use a ball cap to protect my chrome dome from sunburn

Sitting Bull

I have to use a ball cap to protect my chrome dome from sunburn in my t-tops

-N-

I love my t-tops. There is nothing better to be cruising with the t-tops off and the ladies looking . I don't race however mine is just for looks.....until I drop a 350 in.

deadbird

I don't really care for the tops which is why I just painted mine on the inside to block out light but, as far as flex, it's all hearsay untill someone shows some soild proof that there is more flex in a t-top car. I own both and honestly, I feel no difference between the two. The only thing you can see is my hardtop camaro is splitting on the seam between the b-pillar and the top.
I don't care how much anyone says t-top cars flex more, show proof, with some form of measurments or whatever, and I'll believe.
Body flex from one body style to the next is like a 'butt-dyno' on a 'power' mod (i.e. 'I put a sticker on my car and it felt faster') ... a matter of perception only, not factual.
I will agree though, sub-frame connectors will help these sadly framed cars regardless of the top on them.

okfoz

When I drove over a curb to get into a park a few years back with my tops off I swear I could see the windshield move about 3" to one side...on my t-top car. it does not do that now with SFC's

John

blacksheep-1

Ok, you want proof? Here it is, go put your t-tops on, have a buddy drive around, go over bumps and do some performance driving (hard cornering) While he's doing this stick your fingers between the t-top panels, and the roof. Get ready to move them quick, because you'll pinch the crap out of them. If that's not proof. I don't know what is. As far as the cracking on the B post of the hard top car, why do you think that is?, it's the top trying to flex and getting stress cracks. The t-top doesn't crack (at least where you can see it) because the roof is flopping all over the place. If it's not flexing, you're not driving hard enough.

okfoz

Yup, I can verify the movement of the t-tops just by driving down the road.

Actually you can do this with ANY car, by placing your finger on the seam between the front fender & the door.

John

blacksheep-1

Ah yes, the wonders of unit bodies.....

patrickm00

actually, i believe the cracking at the corners SHOULD be more evident in hardtops. not that they're weaker, but the flexing (both sag and twist) will create stress risers at the corners, because there is material there. the t-top cars tend to sag/twist at the middle more than the roof corners. (if you do have them in all the time, there is higher stress where the metal rods are).

also, for autocross, why not get some of the bars from broken t-tops and just put those in. then you get the majority of the mechanical strength and only a fraction of the weight?

plus, people with shattered glass are probably very eager to get rid of the bars... i may even have one if you'd pay shipping.