john5.7 87Iroc

I will be putting in a 2002 Firebird dash and guage cluster as soon as I get it back hopefully by the end of this week. I was going to reuse my old guages but have decided not to. I have been following the other installs but am getting confused since it seems everyone doing it is useing the thirdgens that already came with electronic speedos or have manuel trannies.

Ive got an 87 Iroc with an automatic tranny and mechanical speedo.

1) do I have to convert to the the thirdgen electronic speedo wiring then use the Dakota sgi-5 box or is the box all I need to get the LS1 speedo to run right?

2) I will also need another(?) Dakota box for the LS1 tach to read correctly, right?

3) It looks like the others doing this swap, their other guages (oil, temp..) all seem to be working, but it seems like they are all doing the swap to 90-92 Camaros. Should I expect the same with my '87?

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

As far as the speedo goes, I think your gonna have to use the SGI 5 box. there is no way to run a cable off the 4th gen speedo.
Custom X was having a problem getting his fuel gauge to work also, It seems the newer fuel gauges are somehow run by the computer. Not sure if its 100% true through. Youd have to get in touch with Custom X for more info.

FLYNLOW92rs

iTrader: (53)

Does the Dakota Digital box change both the tach and speedo for the 4th Gen dash swap, or do you need seperate boxes??

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

the SGI 5 box can be used as both a speedo recalibrater and tach recalibrater but I do not think it can be done at the same time.

john5.7 87Iroc

Lets say I were to use an LT1 cluster instead of the LS1, That would take care of the tach issue, correct? and I wouldn't need a box for tach? just the speedo.
Thats what I may do, get a LT1 cluster instead and sell my LS1 cluster unless someone knows for sure if you can use one box to recalibrate both the speedo and tach?

As far as the fuel gage, if i remember right, you BOTTLEDZr28 are using an 95 cluster right? Is your fuel guage running correctly?
If so maybe Customx's fuel guage is broken. Heres why I say that.
A while ago I was reading over at camaroz28.com about the earlier LT1 Firebirds switching out their clusters for newer LS1 clusters and the only problem they were having was with the tach reading correctly. I don't remember them having problems with the fuel guage reading. So My thinking is if the LT1 guys can switch over to LS1 fuel guage with no problem and assuming your (BOTTLEDZr28) LT1 fuel guage is reading in your car than CUstomx's ls1 guage should work too. Again this using info for 4th gen Birds but Im sure the 4ht Camaro guages read similarly.

Ill have to go back and try to find out for sure though.

john5.7 87Iroc

ttt

CustomX

How do you use it as a tach recalibrator? If it can, then i guess i wont need to sell my sgi5.........

CustomX

Im quite positive it isnt broken, the guage moves when i hook up soem sources to it (just nto accuratly) and ive litterally tried every wire comign off the dash and no go.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

Custom X, one of the first few buttons on the box has to be switched to the other direction. one is speedo and the other is tach. I do not have my directions in front of me so I realy cant tell you which switch it is. I wil get that info for you ASAP. My fuel gauge is reading corroctly so far. I filled the tank and it shows just over the F. I am still working on that tank though Im gonna wait for E and then refill and see what the pump says for gallons

john5.7 87Iroc

Customx, I sent you am email with some questions but I think it just got sent back to me with an error.

Anyway I was wandering if your digital odometer and tripometer are working and reading correctly?
And I think you posted that all your other guages and
idiot lights are working correctly, right? How about yours Bottledz? and Your using LT1 cluster right?

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

everysingle part of my cluster is working except for a weird tah problem. The things flucuates a lot and bounces all over the place and rvs up fast then goes to idle while I hit the throttle. Other then that all my gauges and warning lights work i.e ses, airbag,highbeams, seatbelt. im alreadt thining of selling the entire dash to fund a HSR

CrazyHawaiian

I agree with John. Use a 93-97 cluster. It should fit in a 98+ dash. The 93-97's are much easier to interface with our old school ECM's. Very soon I'll be installing a 98+ T/A interior (seats, dash, doorpanels, and console) into my 91 z28. But for the cluster I plan to use a 93-97 T/A cluster.

john5.7 87Iroc

Does the Dakota SGI-5 box really convert mechanical speedo to electrical for sure? or does it just recalibrate signals of cars that already have electrical speedos? reason I ask is because I was looking at some pictures of the box on someones website. Although they were crappy pictures, I really couldn't see how a cable would hook up to the box. I just want to be positive before I dish out the money for one. Thanks

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

the SGI 5 box cannot have a calbe hooked up to it. I really have no idea on how your gonna get that speedo to get a signal from your tranny. what kind of trany do yo uhave again? How about using something off the 90-92 trannies to hook up to the box then the speedo

john5.7 87Iroc

I was afraid of that. Ive got the stock '87 auto 700r4 in there. Anyone know how I can convert it? And if I do convert it to a 90-92, would I really need the box then? Because isn't Customx's a 90 auto tranny and he isn't running a box for the speedo.

CustomX

the 90-92 uses the same 4kppm vss as the ls1/lt1 speedos. So thier elctrical speedos are indentical.

Only thing that doesnt work at all is the feul gauge on my 98 cluster. Only thing i can think of is that the ls1 sender is slightly differnt or what not. Either way im goign aftermarket guage anyways.

When you find out, leme know Bottled, i looked at dak digital's site and the two (sgi5 and sgi8) look exaclty the same, just different part number so im probably goign to try it out using the sgi8's instructions (first 2 dips on, rest off).

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

custom if the 90-92 uses the same 4kppm vss as the ls1/lt1 speedos then that would mean I do not need the SGI 5 box. I tried hooking the VSS on the t56 to the speedo wire and got nothing but a SES light no VSS signal.

CustomX

thats exaclty why im not using the sgi5. I bought it, but found out i didnt need it. So now im stuck with it, or make it do the tach if it can.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

how do you have your tranny hooked up to the speedo then.

CustomX

Stock speedo wire. My car is a 90 b2l g92 hardtop so it uses the 4k ppm vss just like the 4th gen speedo does.

CrazyHawaiian

There is a way to convert from Cable driven speedo to the VSS driven electronic speedo. I remember reading about it in another post related to the 4th gen cluster in a 3rd gen. I dont think they had to replace the ECU or anything. Check out the following companies, they make equipment related to VSS:

Dakota Digital
Stealth Conversions
Jags That Run

Worse come to worse you'll need to make some modifications to your 700r4 to it outputs VSS instead of the Cable driven. Check out this link, it was written for a Firebird but it should be the same on your car).

http://www.angelfire.com/mt/psh/speedo.htm

CustomX

heres a video of the 4th gen guages in action lt1 bow down.

http://ultimate-reflections.com/movie/4thgengauges.avi

fyi..thats a DIVX file......

john5.7 87Iroc

Thanks for those places Crazy.
Ive looked at that link you posted but I don't know if it would help me out because he says he was doing the swap from
86 Firebird SE into an 83 Camaro SC; both had the V6/5-speed. The Camaro (being destined for Canada) had no ECM, and neither vehicle had cruise control. I have an ecm, cruise control, and an auto so I dont know if that would be the same for me or not.

Also looking at that Jags that Run place you guys have been saying that the third and 4th gen both use the 4000ppm sensor but they say that the 4th (auto) uses a 40 pulse per drive shaft sensor? I know your speedos are working, but are they totally accurate? Or are those two sensors pretty much the same?

Sorry for all these questions but I really have no clue to what anything does when it comes to VSS and all that stuff.




Here is what Jags that run had on there site:

[B]2. A four-pulse (4000 pulses per mile) sine-wave (A.C. current or alternating current) signal is required by the 1990–1993 TPI, 1992–1993 LT1 engines, and 1990–1993 Camaro 3.1/3.4 V6 engines.

3. A 40 pulse per driveshaft revolution speed sensor used on 1993 and newer trucks with automatic transmission, 1994 and newer rear drive cars (Camaro, Corvette, and Caprice) with the automatic transmission.86 Firebird SE into an 83 Camaro SC; both had the V6/5-speed. The Camaro (being destined for Canada) had no ECM, and neither vehicle had cruise control.

BluePearl Iroc

maybe a little bit off topic, but does anybody have a wiring diagram of the swap???
or maybe a tech article
need help really bad
thanks