Camar92

Ok, I just found out something about our camaros in realation to the fourth gen. When our cars use cruise control they both use the VSS. Ok, well I was doing some research, both my VSS (1992) and my new gauges (1995) use a VSS for the cruise control that run off of 4000 PPM (pulses per minute). So does this mean that I wont need a dakota digital speedometer cal box? Im ready to try but afraid, cause I have no more money to buy th box if needed. What does the box basically do? Does it change the PPM? Cause if it does, it is a waste of money. If it does something else to, then it is a diffrent story. Input would be needed on this one guys. Thanks,
Andy

StocRoc

iTrader: (1)

I thought the 3rd gen VSS worked at a slower rate compared to the 4th gens. The reason I say this is b/c when 3rd guys w/ electronic speedometers swap in a T56 they have to get a calibration box in order for the speedometer to be correct. I could be wrong, so do more research.

Camar92

That may be true, but i also got mine out of a v6 camaro automatic. And i think that the speed sensors will work together. I will find out today though.

Camar92

Ok here is the deal. These are the facts. A 1995 camaro (3.4 or 5.7 are the same) have a ppm of 4000 pulses per minute. A 1992 camaro 5.0 TPI, 3.1, 5.7 have a ppm of 4000 pulses per minute. Unfourtunitly, the 5.o TBI Vin E has a ppm of 2000 pulses per minute. You can check your car is it is a 1990 to a 2002, but nothing older than 1990. The site is: http://www.rostra.com/techsupport-main.asp

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Your speedo should be 4k, as a and all 4th gen speedos are 4k. Send that Dak box over here

Matthew

CustomX

Well ****, if thats the case i need to return the dakota digital box when it gets here since my car is a 90. I was under the impression that they were totally differnt pulse due to the need to use the box on t56 swaps of all yrs correct?

Alsp, anybody knwo about the ls1 tach "supposedly" calibrated for a 4cyl as soemone stated in an earlier post? Ive loooked everywhere, even posted on ls1 about it, but no replies thier and nothing specific on the net either.

Im still tryignt o figure out what to do about the odo since this 98 cluster is digital.....

jmd

iTrader: (4)

"they were totally different pulse" - the speedos? Naah. The 1980's Firebird elec. speedos are 4k, so is yours, and they work fine with an LT1 PCM speed signal.

I don't know if the 93 T56 had a mechanically driven VSS like a 1991 Z28 tranny or not. All the 94-up trannies had a vss only, no mechanical drive.

I think I am going to go w/ the Dak box for now because I'm running MAF TPI, and can build an elec. 4k pulse speedo to fit my cluster, and I'm putting a 95 T56 in.

The LS1 tach would be accurate with a 16 cylinder engine, it is fed double the signal of all prior "normal" tachometers. Also, it's very likely that the tach signal is fed to the PCM, and the PCM feeds the gauges, so that might be a constant that's programmable, but I haven't looked at LS1-edit.

Don't know on the digital odo. Might be time to sniff around the Impala boards.

90 Z28SS

On T56 swaps you have to convert the signal because the T56 uses a COMPLETELY different speed sensor . They use a 17 tooth reluctor gear .

CustomX

Hmmmmmm, well im nto runnign an ls1, runngin a 730 l98/700r4. Guess well see here in a day or 2........

CHCKLS

In other words the T-56 VSS sends a 40, 000 pulse per mile, whihc is why the SGI-5 is needed.

Also know that on some models the VSS sends a 4,000 pulse signal from the tranny, but goes to a buffer first to slow the signal to 2,000 PPM and then on to the ECM, while another wire carries the 4,000 PPM to the gauge cluster in such as on the 90-92 TBI models I believe.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

The SGI-5 isn't needed in a SD TPI car. Gotta change road speed constant so it calculates mph correctly; the speedo is fed from the ECM & is no problem.

The buffer boxes were used in '80's elec speedo firebirds for sure so that like you said, the ECM got 2k pulse, the speedo 4k.

Matthew

CHCKLS

The SGI-5 is only needed if you are doing a T-56 swap into a thirdgen.... I never mentioned anything about SD or MAF so I dont have any clue where you are going with that. It just seems that there was some confusion about what the SGI-5 is for.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

Ok guys heres a twist for ya. I already have a T56 in my 91z28 and I am currently putting a 4th gen dash from a 1995 camaro. I do not have a cluster yet so I cant check the gauges but do i nned to use my SGI-5 box or not. If not then where does the green/white wire from cluster go too.

CHCKLS

Yes you still need the box.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

Custom X, I took your advice on using the 3rd gen headlight switch in the 4th gen light panel and it works perfect. I had to cut the plastic nut the holds the switch inside the dash. I then cut the metal rod in half and stuck the 4th gen **** on it. When the lights are off the panel looks like the factory did it and then I just pull the **** out. I also used my old foglight switch. Thank you very much. How is your swap coming along. I connected the cluster connector to my harness today but I dont have a cluster to check it. What helped me a lot was to trace the contacts on the back of the 3rd gen cluster to the plug connector. I then wrote down what plug and what color and what spot if was in. I did this becasue of the numerous same colored wires.

90 Z28SS

The tach signal of an LS1 IS equivelent to that of a 4cyl. engine . All 4th gen tach and speedo readings are fed to the cluster from the PCM .

CustomX

Tomorrow i will be startign in on the physical side of the swap, Been waiting on my dakota digital box, but i guess i wotn need it, just need a tach interface instead, but if i can see mph, then it wont really hinder the swap any further. Glad to hear that worked, just figured it woudl be eaiser then figuring out 2 seperate switches ont eh 4th gen dash. What did you do about the Fuse Box? Also did you make a cover for the top air vents that would run into the 4th gen a piller?

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

I am gonna use my 3rd gen piller moldings. I will be messing with the heat vents tomorrow. I just want defrost and floor. No need for vents. My side windows are tinted and never frost up anyway. I just mock fitted the dash for now.it will be coming off again for the heat stuff and to secure the wiring in the back. I wanna make sure the cluster works before I go and put the dash in for good. As for the fuse block, I havent even gotten down there yet. It is so cold here, it was 20 degrees today and I only did work that could be done with the doors closed. Im just gonna find a way to mount it under the dash onto that black frame. same goes for the ALDL connector and that stupid buzzer thingy. The passenger side has 3 boxes that I gotta try and find a home for....ECM, PASS KEY, and one other that I am not sure of. its looks like a smaller version of the ECM box maybe its the ESC. But I wil most likely get all that done tomorrow.
BTW make sure you connect that big black ground wire under dash. I didnt and it messed up the way the headlight switch and interior lights work.

john5.7 87Iroc

customx, I have two sets of Firebird t/a guages for my swap. I know for sure ones a 2000 and I think the other is a 2001, but not sure if they are the same in terms of wiring. Can you look the wiring diagram up for them when you get a chance? No hurry, im not even sure im going to use them yet. I may fab something up to use my current guages. And if anyone else remembers where they saw someone do this (reusing there old guages with a 4th dash) let me know, I can't remeber where it was that i saw it. Thanks.

Camar92

ok, so your all saying that as long as your not doing the t56 swap, you DONT need the dak dig box? Cause keep in mind that I boufht this dash out of a 1995 V6 camaro. Not sure how big the engine is though. Cause apparently the site says that the cruise control uses a 400ppm signal for 1995, but my car (1992 TBI) uses 2000ppm. This may not mean that my speedometer uses this signal, which is why im trying this soon. If anyone is with me, say I, ok then. I dontplan on seapping the t56 any time soon. Im still decieding. So ill try to mount my 3rd gen gauges tonight, then next free time im gonna see if my speedometer will work. Let ya know, later.

jmd

iTrader: (4)

The Dak Dig box can reduce the 40/driveshaft revolation AC signal to the 2k pulse signal or the 4k AC signal.

On your TBI Camaro, the speedo expects a 4k AC signal, and the speedo from the 95 Camaro expects the same.

Your TBI ECM needs the 2k pulse signal. The 95 speedo will work in the 92.

Camar92

sounds good. Well i went out to my car and using the knowledge i know and all the diagrams I have ( not much and not very accurate ) and I first tried to tap the speedometer. It was a green wire w/ white stripe going to a purple wire. I then put both pink wires together and connected to the pink w/ black stripe for power. Then, i took the thick black wire and ground to a ground point. Didnt work so i used the black wire w/ white stripe, didnt work. Before i started cursing, I thought ide teset something. Left it all hooked up except the speedometer, i disconnected that one. I attached the tach ( white wire to white wire) and started up my car. Nothing! So, Im thinking that it is with my wiring diagrams. Which sux, but i should have better diagrams tommorow. Let you guys know soon. Bye the way, are you sure, like 100% Positive that my car will work with the 95 cluster, cause if it will, im gonna cut off my factory connectors and stripe/ butt connect all the wires. Let me know.
Later

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

Camar92, if your having trouble with your wires then maybe I can help. I have a 91z28 and I am puttig a dash from a 95 camaro also. I posted in another post pertaining to the 4th gen dash swap, all the wires and there dscription sof the 4th gen connector. I have yet to see if my wires are connected right since my clusyter is in the mail now. I will let you know in the next few days if it works. Please let me know your progress too. WE are both using the same cluster and have the same 3rd gen wires.BTW since I have the T56, I ran the green/white wire from 4th gen connector to my Dakota digital box.

CustomX

My dash will be in tomorrow along with the 98 cluster......so we will see. Pulled most of everythign out today, dropped in the center console, elongated the wiring for the hatch realses and windows, gonna put the hatch relase where the 4th gen hatch realse is, and put the windows switches in 4th gen switches where the tractiona control/fogs woudl be.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

Custom X, where are you putting your window switches again? Im using a 95 console and I took the astray out and made a plastic plate to go over the hole and mounted my switches in there. It was lot easier for me to do that then run them to the doors somehow. I didnt hook up the hatch release switch because for some reason, my car burns out the hatch motors on the first attempt. I tried 3 in a week once. I wasnt happy since they ran me about $30 each. I cant seem to find out why its doing it though. Maybe I'll make a post about it.

CustomX

On the 97 up dash, thiers a spot above the radio where the 4th gen fog lights, and tractional control switches mount, so im going to put the 2 window switches thier.

Camar92

Found a whole crap loada info. My dad brought home his mitchell books from his work and I went into my shop at school today and printed some diagrams of ALLdataonline. Really good website/program, but costs alot of money! Well I have all of them, so today at school, i figured out what goes where, so i can help you out if you need any. hopefully. Im making a second attemp for the gauges to work, later.

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

Camar92, send them diagrams over to me if you dont mind. I wana make sure my connections are right. My cluster will be here thursday.

Camar92

Just got back from taking around the block, it works!!@#$@!$!
I hooked up the speedometer and the tachometer, both work like a charm! Old one is back in but im so much happier now! Thought ide let you all know!! No converter box for me!!! Oh yea! Sorry if im alittle happy, but just saved me 80 bucks!
later

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

Congrats on getting your gauges working. I hope i have the same results. Before you cover the dash back up please let me know what color wires went to what. Im done with mine but I just want to compare mine to yours. also, what did you do about the heater controls? Did you slice in the old and new vacuum hoses? what did you do about directing heat from the blower to the windshield and floor and vents. I m done on that too just wanna compare. I used the 3rd gen ductwork for the defroster and took of the 3rd gen floor directer panel so the console could go in. I am not using vents or A/C