Does those rust converter stuff work becuase I have one little pieces of rust. I wont to kill that stuff now while it is small. It is on the external sheetmetal

 

almost everyone here would recommend the POR 15 rust paint. It apparently works extremely well but is sort of expensive--$35 a quart US. Yet if it stops the rust dead, then it is pretty cheap, ain't it?

I had mine done today and pick it up from the shop tomorrow.

I think the trick to it all is that you clean the rusty area first with the POR 15 Metal Ready and then paint the regular black POR 15 on, being sure to go about 2 or 3 inches higher than the rust was. If you can also do the same to the back side of it, that seals the rust completely into the POR 15 sandwich, as it were. No air or moisture can get in and the rust is hermetically sealed

 

Yep, I agree with http://www.por15.com . I bought their $20 Super Starter Kit, which included the Marine Clean cleaner, Metal Ready zinc prep wash, a can of POR-15, some brushes, and some gloves. (USE THE GLOVES! WEAR LONG SLEEVES! TRUST ME!) It was just enough to give my axle two coats of por-15. I will probably buy another kit for when I do my rear 1/4 replacement. I liked the kit because supposedly, POR-15 will dry up once you open the can. I'd rather lose out on a small can of POR-15 (and have two bottles of cleaner & zinc wash left) than a $35 can of POR-15.

 

Roughly...
The game associated with rust is to "kill" the battery.
Rust is "oxidation" that occurs via microcurrents.
Converters all attempt to do roughly the same thing.

1. Convert FeO2 to Feo3
2. Remove moisture
3. Seal against future moisture

With POR-15 products...
"Marine Clean" simply cleans the surface so that the other stuff
can get there

"Metal Ready" is an acid compond that etches the metal

Once dry, a water rinse completes the "conversion" from
FeO2 to Feo3
(don't skip this, it's a "do over" if you do)

The paint is somewhat interesting in that the primary mechanism
for curing isn't solvent evaporation (although this happens)
it cures via decomposing water. Hence a "super drying" effect.
Also it doesn't leave holes for atmospheric gasses to interact
with the metal.

The drawback of using this stuff is the extra steps...
1. wire wheel
2. marine clean
3. metal ready
4. por 15
5. tie coat

Now you get to star finishing external sheet metal
in the conventional manner

putty
sand
primer
sand
sand sand
color
sand
color
clear
buff
buff
buff
buff

 

What about the stuff they sell at c.r.a.p in the spary cans. Like i was sayin the rust is about the size of a dime.

 

Hmmm...
What you see is much like an iceberg...
if you start looking closely....

 

Perhaps I'm wrong but didn't he say external metalwork?POR 15 as excellent as it is,is a bit agricultural for finished bodywork.I personally would remove the rust completely with a rust eating acid (Jenolite in the UK) can take a long time though but no rust = no problem.

ps.nobody seems to mention Corroless from the Eastwood company,which in my experience is better suited to rust prevention jobs (other than external metalwork)than the mighty POR 15.

 

Yeah, well, it is good to use whatever is handy where you live. The most important thing is to use something real people will vouch for because EVERYONE'S ads claim they are the best.

On this side of the pond POR 15 seems to be the best.

Is this Corroless stuff available in North America. Never even heard of it myself, which is no deadly blow, if I do say so myself

 

Like I said POR15 is excellent for engine bays,chassis,underneath etc but I can't imagine many bodyshops using it for finished bodywork.As for the rust eating acid I see your point and there are probably many different named brands but they all must essentially do the same thing.As for Corroless I can't believe I heard about it in the UK and you haven't over there as it's marketed by a big US automotive resto company.Look up the Eastwood company on the internet.Any of the above products are available from them.

 

After coating my front suspension components, rearend, and sway bars and such, I am a HUGE fan of POR-15. Great stuff and very easy to use.

The only thing I didn't like was how fast I went thru that bottle of the Metal Ready stuff. I should have bought more but like TomP I went with the starter kit and you don't get a whole lot. I read somewhere the other day that someone stumbled across the same stuff in Wal-Mart or some other common place like that, only called something else. Was it this site? Anyone know what I'm talking about??

Ed

 

http://www.eastwoodcompany.com sells the Corroless- but guess what, they changed the name recently. It's now called "Rust Encapsulator". Heh heh... I guess Corroless didn't sound as good?

Urbman, I noticed that the instructions with the por15 advised against using a wire wheel in a drill. They suggested just a wire brush to remove the loose rust. Supposedly the wire wheel can make the surface very smooth, and doesn't leave the por-15 much to "bite"? But yeah, it was a bit of a pain to do all three steps. I asked around before, and some people didn't bother with the metal ready and marine clean, and the por-15 was still holding strong.

So I figured hey, if it worked for those guys "just" doing the last step, it'll be rock-solid for me if I do all three steps! I hate that damn rust.

Oh, Tip: After using the metal ready, it's a zinc wash, youll be left with a whiteish coating on the area. That's alright, it's not going to hurt anything. I rinsed it off, and used a NEW dishwashing sponge (Pack of 10 for $2) to get any excess zinc off- it was cool to see the sponge come out clean. That marine clean is one helluva cleaner.

Oh, and Blue, you saw my 1/4 panel pictures (the message is on this Body & Interior forum), right? I used those spray can rust convertors. I followed the directions perfectly, too. I think the one I used was by Marhide? Anyway, apparently, they're not worth crap. I'll never use 'em again.

What's the deal with that acid stuff that was mentioned? I've seen it before, but I never "bought" that it really killed rust. Does it really work? It scares me that I have to rinse off the area with water- at least with the POR-15, it works "with" water, so it makes a bit more sense to me. But with the acid, once I rinse it off, aren't I starting new rust?

Oh, and Ed, same damn thing happened to me. I would've liked to have "extra" metal ready left over, because it seems like it'd be handy. I think next time I'll buy a big bottle of marine clean, a big bottle of metal ready, and that "6 pack" of small POR-15 cans. It'd be like having the Super Starter Kit, times 6!

 

I use a wire wheel on a grinder on painted surfaces
so that I can tell how big an area I am dealing with.

This started out as a "bubble" about the size of a
quarter...

 

tom I bought the Corroless stuff last night from the eastwood comany I was also ging to buy the rust eating acid stuff but I thought about the was off with water stuff. Hey tomp Im looking for a cheap 4banger camaro to srip the axle and frount suspenstion coponite to por-15 them then swap onto my car. and I was removing the exast on my car today and stumble across a lot of surface rust on the back of the car un the bottom by the wheels. and i manage to brake ever exhast bolt to what a day!

 

The acid for eating rust is a great product but quite time consuming.It will eat away every last ingrained microscopic grain of rust away which even a wire wheel won't touch.As for washing off with water,I use very hot water which actually evaporates very quickly.Besides the only rust which comes back is very light flash rust and is very easy to remove with a scotchbrite pad(maybe called something else in USA).Like I said I would only go to these lengths with finished bodywork where I want a perfect finish (anyone ever seen an advert for por15 or corroless with it being used on anything other than very rusty chassis parts,battery tray etc).For anything else like chassis,underbody etc por15 and corroless saves a lot of time and do a great job.It is important to remember that any paint over rust type product is a quick fix and is no substitute for complete rust removal by acid,shot blasting(not ideal on outer body panels as the heat generated can warp them) etc.I will try absolutely any product(even oven cleaner for very dirty parts) and give them all a fair trial and the ones I stick with I find work the best for me.Remember theres more than one way to achieve your goal it all really depends on what sort of time you've got,and how good you want your car.

top tip...when applying rust removing acid apply it to the rusty area and then stick some tissue paper over it and wet this with acid.This will keep the moisture in and save you having to keep re-applying it so often.Takes a long time but unbeatable rust removal.

 

The trouble I have found with acids is a class of
issues associated with hydrogen embrittlement (sp)
In short, you are to one extent or another changing
the ductility of the material you are working with...

In terms of whether or not something is a "short term"
band aid I would defer to the experience of folks
and their local conditions.

The American midwest/northeast is a great proving
ground for rust abatement techniques as they
routinely operate their vehicles in a rough aproximation of
ASTM B117 (chief differences being temperature and
the addition of actually salt blasting their cars for
5 months of the year ).

By contrast the rest of the Americas is stunningly
clueless about conditions that promote rust. The west
coast/gulf coast folks think they "know" rust but
are usually stunned by cars from Cleveland, Gary or
Chicago.

While true enough that "going to white metal" is the
absolute best thing to do ... My contention is that unless
the car is a true "collectable" (a real cobra, a convertable
e-type, 1950's racer etc.) these techniques will certainly
last well into a time when a third gen might qualify for
concours competition

 

Urb, ever see that green bristle pad that eastwood sells by 3M? The one that removes rust & paint for bodywork? I've gotta pick up a few of 'em, they look like they work well. Those doors rust out like crazy, eh? I'm afraid to even touch my current 1/4 panel, I might wind up putting my whole hand through it!

Eric, thanks for the info on that rust eating acid! Maybe I'll use it on the little bit of rust my "new" junkyard quarter panel has- especially if it removes every little microscopic piece! What brand do you use? My dad has a bottle of "naval jelly" in the basement, it's probably 20 years old, it claims to be a rust eating acid. After 20 years, it's probably no good, so I'd have to pick up a new bottle. Thanks for the tip about keeping the acid from evaporating! As far as rust is concerned, I have all the time in the world to get rid of it!!! How long does the acid take? Hell, if I have to, I'll even cut out the bit of rusted areas, and weld new metal in. I'm that mad about rust. I would've done that with my current 1/4 panel, but I'd be making the whole panel out of new metal!

 

That was a spot between the door, fender and floorpan...
The scary part was that most of these areas were "protected"
by a variety of seam sealers used to cover the welds.

The worst area was the seam along the wheel well on the
inside floor pan.

The biggest problem was removing the "rubbery" stuff
Took days after the interior was removed...
I took to swearing at 1 minute intervals

The good part was that I learned about panel adhesives.
I screwed around with a number of products from
"Dura-Mix. The advantage of this stuff is that you can replace
relatively small sections of panels in tight spots with the
equivalent of glue. ( My welding technique is poor )

I used the por 15 epoxy as sealer to reasonably good effect...

No I havn't tried the bristle gizmo but I use the "scotchbrite"
pads in different "roughnesses" regularly. Excellent
for blending paint jobs that don't encompass entire panels...

 

errr
forgot the pic

 

Christ!!! rust sure seems to awaken the demon in some people.I agree with urbman in as much as a lot of people in sunnier climates must wonder what the hell all the fuss is about.(I live in the rain prone UK-rust central).As for only bare metal on rare machines I apoligize, but I will disagree slightly.As I have said many times,any paint over rust treatment(por15,corroless etc) is great for chassis etc but for finished bodywork(bonnet, sorry hood, wings roof,quarter panels etc etc etc)absolute bare metal is king.On top of this you cannot beat 2k etch primer,surfacer etc etc.I suppose my location doesn't really help as good bodywork is hard to find.I've got an '82 and it had spent some of it's life in Kuwait(Dry as a pharoes sock) but a nut and bolt rebuild revealed mucho corrosion.An '87 I used to have was so bad I gave up on it and scrapped it.It's all down to time available and seeing as mine(unintentionally)turned into a complete resto job,I don't mind spending the time on the rust.Besides you can use the acid while your doing something else on the car.Thanks for posting urbman,points of view is what it's all about.TomP you seem to be more worried about the ol rust more than me!!The acid I use is called Jenolite but I doubt it is available in the US.I know Eastwood do something similar sounding but I haven't tried it.Theres bound to be loads available in a country 5 times the size of mine.Thanks for all your input guys
ps I am interested in what urbman said about in the first part of your post any info?

 

Got your picture urbman.I had a big hole right in the same place due to the failure of very poorly applied factory seam sealer.I absolutely agree with re-applying your own quality sealer after removing the crumbling factory rubbish.I also blasted large amounts of cavity wax in any inaccesible area to halt corrosion.Just don't spray cavity wax until all paint jobs have finished or inside your garage/workshop.If a tiny particle of this lands on your wet paint it'll be fisheye.What was the grey primer you have applied?

 

Ooops !
Upon re reading I did come off as a ********....
Better to do this with a tequila in hand and ability to
hear "tone"... apologies...

The "primer" is POR-15 "silver"... fairly close in color
to what was there, a little lighter in person...

(revealing stupidity) ... What is "cavity wax" ?

I am doing a 20/20 job on my front fenders using the POR
stuff I can let you know how I make out...

 

Cavity wax is a sprayable liquid wax which drys fairly hard after time.It absolutely resists moisture (have you ever seen an oily engine part come up like new when oil is removed).It can be applied by brush on accesible areas or with an underseal shultz gun(the one which attaches directly to the underseal cans and comes with a flexible nozzle for cavity wax)for inaccesible areas.Best to go to a pro autobody supply shop for gear like this rather than a dumbass general auto shop where they probably won't have a clue what your on about.I cannot get enough of this stuff as I don't want to be doing a resto job any time within the next ten years.Hope this helps