89Formula305

ahhh the website... I havent done much there lately, the whole rear end is sitting on the cinder blocks, I havent had any problems with em before... The jack is hold a board up to the top of the panel to keep the car from flexing, up in the rear hump is where its at.... Ill have more pictures as i get farther..

89Formula305

oh i forgot, yea the floorboards were quite shot, i have new..

TomP

Haha, whoops; didn't even notice that you have a webpage in your sig. I'll have to check it out.

Here's pics...

TomP

Pics #2

89Formula305

wow, your body isnt that great either, I believe the flaw GM had when making this car is that there are to many pockets for the elements to collect and rott it away.

I guess theres no job to big right... lol Good Luck

deadbird

Oh my... I wasn't even thinking of those spots Tom.. wow! I was thinking of the space around the filler neck that I couldn't get to from any angle. After those last pix.. I believe I'll stick to the TPI swap.. it's alot easier task . Can't sayu i know what "OSOPHO".. I've just used PPG epoxy primer once, galvaprime a few times & love my ZRC for small areas.

89.. you must really like that car. I think I'd have just junked it & swapped the drivetrain over to something a little better but, kudos for your effort.
I certainly wouldn't do that to my camaro (it's future is the crusher anyways ) and would have to think long & hard about doing that to my bird (even as much as I like it).

Good luck to the both of you guys though

TomP

Well, I called today about the 1/4 panel; they've got it cut off, and waiting for me. I should be able to pick it up tomorrow morning; they open at 8:00am, so if I can wake my *** up and be there at 8:00, I might even get to work on time. Yeah, it'll be a hell of an interesting project; my dad says it's very "ambitious". Hopefully I won't be renting a car for a week! I figure tho, if they're giving me the back right side of the car, maybe I'll just weld it on where they cut it off from. That would eliminate drilling out spot welds. I could flange the flat areas, too. Sound good? I wonder, too, if I could "make a flange" by backing up the weld area with short pieces of steel- almost like a butt weld (1/4 panel pieces) with a lap weld (piece of steel below the butt weld). That should add extra strength, right?

I also think I'm going to patch that crack in the wheel well this week. I have some 1/8" steel that I could use. I think I'll scrape the undercoat off the inner wheel well, and use plug welds to attach the 1/8" steel to the quarter, then do a seam weld all around. Think that'll keep the crack from getting worse?

89Formula305

We have been triming it up to fit and we set it up there to see how it looked and this is what we got...

We have to trim it up some more to raise the front up..

89Formula305

the holes should line up and factory screws go there, so this is a reference point to make that like up right..

89Formula305

These next 2 pics just show how we cut the other piece to fit...

89Formula305

last one, we overlaped the grooves..

TomP

Cool! Thanks for the pics! The car's coming along great! (Ever think about changing the roof to a t-top roof? ) I'm thinking of overlapping the hatch grooves, too. They cut enough off for me to do that. One problem- I'd have to drop the gas tank. Dammit, I've done that twice already, I don't really want to think about doing it a third time. (sigh) How are you welding that area together? Will you do a ton of plug welds (spot welds)? Or are you just running one long bead down the hatch? Are you using a flange?

Well, I got the quarter panel today!! Here's some pics of it in a rented cargo van. That van was easier to drive than my Firebird; I think it was skinnier, too. Everytime I thought I wasn't in my lane, I checked my mirrors, and I had tons of room on either side. Go figure. My dad and I dragged it into the backyard; they put a few dents and scratches in the perfect paint, so I had to spray 'em quick with Spray Galv. (It's supposed to POUR this afternoon). We threw a tarp over it, and I'll have to look at it more (and take more pics) when I get home. Here's the few I took with my pencam! Funny, as each day goes by, I feel like I'm getting closer and closer to making this project a reality. Damn I can't wait!

89Formula305

ill just run a bead across the back there, and ill flange the part on the sail panel. Good Luck with your project, ill have more pics here in a few days im sure..

89Formula305

heres some helpful advice. LEAVE THE REAR GLASS ON, so that you know the gaps are all correct. A guy was telling me he did this on a camaro, and took the glass off... when he put it back on the glass his the panel and wouldnt close...

TomP

Thanks for the tip, it makes a hellofalot of sense! It might be a bit hard, since I want to replace a bit of the roof, but maybe I could just tack the quarter in a few places, then put the window on, and see how it closes. It rained here yesterday; didn't want to start flipping the quarter around on the wet grass for pictures- and I hear it's supposed to rain all weekend. Dammit. (Amazingly, our beat up +5 year old "cover the lawnmower" tarp kept the 1/4 from getting wet at all! Wow. That thing has more holes than cheesecloth...)

TomP

Ya know, it figures. I don't have a 1/4 panel for weeks, and it's been nice and hot and DRY out. The past two days, it's rained. It's raining on my new 1/4 panel in the backyard, AND, soaking my old one. It's quite interesting driving without the interior panels on the car. Now I can actually see the water pour in. My trash bags aren't keeping it out.

lopoetve

Where can one find said panel? I need it for an 87 Firebird that has it's rather beat up. I figure it would be easier to get a new panel than fix the old one... I'll try to get pics ASAP.

TomP

You want a new quarter panel? Check out some of the restoration companies, like classic industries, the paddock, etc. They usually have ads in hot rod and super chevy and similar style magazines. Go to http://www.yahoo.com and search for those two names I gave ya, you should be able to find the company's web sites. Since you've got a firebird, you can also try http://www.amesperformance.com - they're a Pontiac-only store. (Took me years to figure out that their Ape "mascot" came from the initials of the store; Ames Performance Engineering.)

From what I recall, Ames is the only joint that gives you a free catalog. The rest charge $5-$10 for 'em... what a pain. Like was mentioned to me before, if you want a low cost welder, check out http://www.eastwoodcompany.com for their arc-welding kit- comes with a low voltage arc welder, a stitch welder attachment, and a spot welder attachment. Or you can go for the big $$ one like I did, and get a MIG welder. ($300 Lincoln Electric Weld-pak 100 from Home Depot, $100 FCAW-to-GMAW kit from Home Depot, $155 gas bottle from local welding store, oh yeah, and the bright red "welding toolbox"! )

edit: On eastwood's site, that kit is #19226. Type 19226 into the "search" box at the top of the page, and then click on "no photo available". For $230 you get the welder (19295, $130), stitch welding attachment (19045, $60), and spot welding attachment (19089, $50). You still need a helmet and gloves and etc, though. Find the Haynes Welding Techbook at an auto parts store, I found mine at Lowe's home improvement; it's a good helper to decide which welding style to use.

lopoetve

Thank you very, very much! I'm actually getting the local Vo-Tech school to paint my car and do the repair (3k paint job, for the cost of paint, and 2 months..., body work free, with parts, and they do a EXCELLANT job with certified inspections from instructors and mechs.). I don't have the room to do that kind of body work, but I needed to find the panel.

TomP

No problem; looks like we're on at the same time! Make sure to check out the (edit) I added at the end of my previous message.

TomP

Well, besides doing the bodywork on my friend's car (remember the "friend hit by deer"?), I did some looking at the half-a-car in my backyard. Looks like I also got the rear main frame rail when the guy cut the 1/4 off for me- but there's only an inch of metal "past" the frame rail.

So, here's the current way of thinking. I'm going to have to drop the gas tank, AGAIN, for the THIRD frickin' time, dammit! Stupid tank. OH! Sorry. Anyway, I'm going to have to drop the gas tank, and I'm going to drill out all the little spot welds that hold that rear frame rail to the floor of my car.

After I drill them out, I'm going to cut the back half of my car off. I'm going to cut down the "Middle" of where that rear frame rail is. Then, I'm going to flange the rear so I flange my car "upward". I'll align the new half of the car up- and that's going to be a btch, because I have to make sure I align the suspension correctly! I'll be taking the lower control arm mount and track bar mounts; they're part of the new 1/4 panel.

Then, I'll weld the new 1/4 onto my car. I'll utilize the original drilled-out spot weld areas of my car's original floorpan, and use those holes to secure the new 1/4 to the old floorpan. Then I'll weld both seams shut.

I'll see if I can get some pictures up for tomorrow, with some drawings on 'em, so you guys can see what I'm talking about. But I really think I should take the whole damn panel that the guy cut off, INCLUDING that frame rail!

Hey, one more question. I know I"m going to have to do some butt welds. Would it be stronger if I did this to the welding?

TheLG4Whore

This thread may be dead and dying but I'm gonna post anyway!
I'll be putting up photos of my body work in progress even though it isn't rear quarter panels.
Ohh and TomP thanks for the bodywork help you gave me about a month or so ago.
It paid off and I'll show the progress.

omnipotentgoku

iTrader: (1)

I must commend you all for even attempting to fix your vehicles. I think I would end up getting another one. However I live in El Paso Texas, where it rains about 6 times in one year so I have more difficulty with paint than I do with rust.

lock

I about fell out of the chair seeing how much you cut out 89Formula305. You must love that car or something. Your the man for commiting all that work to the car.

6cycbird86

dude- i cant belive your even considering this- but there's just something about staring in the face of evil- i have the same prob unfortunatly-( behind the driver door - kind of low)- the car was recently painted so its hardly noticable- i did take it to a body shop and was told no!- the guy looked at me and said it wasnt worth it and he knew i wouldnt have the money- - bummer-

does anybody know why gm didnt use a strong rust proofing ?

once again tom- good luck- and *** speed-

TomP

I think that GM didn't expect anyone to have these cars anymore... that they'd all be crashed or have blown engines. But it is damned annoying.... take my doors, for example. I replaced them in '97 because they rusted out at the bottom. It wasn't the bottom of the door that is visible when the door is closed. It was underneath, where the inner door panel met the outer panel. On both my doors, that had completely rotted away, and instead of a one piece door, I had a two piece! So I put '84 doors on, which were rust free. Guess frickin' what, now both doors have the same problem AGAIN!!! I bet it's because my car's outside all the time.

Thanks for the support guys... so far, work hasn't gone anywhere.. I just bought a paint gun; at the end of this week, I'm going to pick up an auto dimming welding helmet. Specifically, I'm going after the "Black (XL)" helmet shown on this page: http://www.millerwelds.com/weldinghelmets/ Hint; I emailed Miller because these are Hobart helmets- turns out they're owned by the same company, and "share some technology" between the two. Some websites show these helmets as dimming in 1/11,000th second, some websites show 1/16,000th second. Miller told me (in the email) that the "original" XL helmets dimmed in 1/11,000th. Their "new generation" of XL helmets dim in 1/16,000th. The only problem left? Trying to make sure you're buying the newer technology helmet- who knows how many of the original helmets are in warehouses!

So after the auto dim helmet, I -might- have one more tool to buy; something to cut the sheetmetal with. I have an air powered cut off tool.. but am thinking about buying air shears, or an air nibbler (heat warpage?)... not sure yet. After that, I've got all the tools, just need the time.