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Auto Detailing and AppearanceShare tips and tricks on how to make your Third Gen shine! Get opinions on products or how something tasteful looks on your Chevrolet Camaro or Pontiac Firebird.
Although my build is a few months from completion I'm starting to go to and think about car shows. I was hoping I could have some of our car show ****** chime in with some advice for what has worked for them or thirdgen specific advice. In advance I'm not looking for "don't go to win" or "clean your car really well." I'm looking for advice more along the lines of "I've done better in 1980's category instead of Camaro category" or "This brush works great for cleaning/dusting ____" or "Since the car is lowered I keep the wheels straight and no one ever notices my dirty wheel wells."
Well, you just go and have fun. Now with that said, you go with 5 or more friends all with different category cars. You all vote for each others cars and clean up on trophies. I know that's cheating, but that's what has happened a few times at some shows i have been to. I also won one of my trophies because of it. Some cars shows won't allow car clubs because of it.
Although my build is a few months from completion I'm starting to go to and think about car shows. I was hoping I could have some of our car show ****** chime in with some advice for what has worked for them or thirdgen specific advice. In advance I'm not looking for "don't go to win" or "clean your car really well." I'm looking for advice more along the lines of "I've done better in 1980's category instead of Camaro category" or "This brush works great for cleaning/dusting ____" or "Since the car is lowered I keep the wheels straight and no one ever notices my dirty wheel wells."
Start by getting into all the corners, such as door jams-clean inside your aluminum rims-fender wells etc. A lot of people will wax the hell out of the finish, but if you go into areas that are clean of grease-rust-road tar and such gives the impression of a well taken care of car. Even small stuff like your exhaust tips can come up like new if you use a VERY FINE steel wool.
Last edited by edpontiac91; 06-05-2016 at 01:04 PM.
Just a general comment or two about shows. Over the years I've found that my car does very well with younger judges (judges who grew up loving/owning these cars). Older judges (gray beards) generally aren't interested in "newer" cars and I don't get the time of day from them. I've also found that my car does better in a specific category, say, all cars from 80-90. I've not done well in categories such as best this or best that. I never hold out any hope in participant judging either. Why? Most car show participants, around here at least, are gray beards.
I've won my share of awards over the years, and winning is always nice, but nicer still is enjoying the day, cool cars, and fellow enthusiasts. I especially enjoy meeting other thirdgen guys/gals—unfortunately, that doesn't happen too often. If I attend a show with one other thirdgen there, it's a big deal.
I've heard and seen the issues that car clubs and groups of friends can bring when a show is participant judged. I've seen shows and even Autocrosses that make all kinds of classes and sub-classes geared towards helping their brethren win (usually Mustang, import or hot rod clubs) and then make a few other classes just to throw everybody else in that comes. When talking about car clubs as a problem at shows I've heard some say the age old advice of "If you can't beat em, join em."
I know exactly what your talking about James, been to a few shows put on by those grey beards where the Thirdgens are lumped in the same category as fourthgens and the 83-2000 Mustangs! Some out here are finally starting to offer the 80's and 90's category
EdPontiac- I am resistant to worry about the door jambs and some other areas, as an attendee and very infrequent participant I haven't seen judges want to open doors or get on their bellies to look under a car orgrab a flashlight to see the wheel wells. Have you seen this or been to shows where they do this?
Are participant voted shows more common than shows with a few judges and scorecards?
Are participant voted shows more common than shows with a few judges and scorecards?
Here in the midwest anyway, the small town car show's are usually participant and spectator judged, more of the big established shows are usually independently judged. So, you are at the mercy of the ages, no matter which type you go to. That's why i say, just go and have fun and meet new people. You really do meet the nicest people at shows. And maybe some you will become "car show friends". And also, I have won in years specific categories, and have also won in muscle car categories. When filling out your info, you might want to check the "competition" in each category and see where there are less cars to compete with.
...category and see where there are less cars to compete with.
I once attended a show where no category seemed to fit. A judge was called in and he advised me to sign up for "special interest." Ok. Later, when my car was being judged, I told the fellow to just write me off as I didn't feel comfortable with the category. He told me to stay in and I'd no doubt win. Why? My competition turned out to be a BOAT, yes, BOAT. Did I say BOAT? Yes, I did.
Just my advice for having fun at at a car show. Like the others, I'm not there to win. I do make an effort to detail my car as well as I can just in case there's a judge or vendor there that appreciates the car. I always meet a lot of people that had a third gen once in their life, and really give the car a good look. I fully detail the interior, scrubbing and vacuuming carpets, cleaning windows inside and out. The I use ultimate detailer on the outside after I get there for some extra shine on the paint. I usually pressure wash the engine bay a day before the big show and allow it to air dry overnight and then give it a full detail after parking the car at the show. I love to pull in and give the car one more good cleaning once I get there, and it shows the judges and visitors that you clean and car about the car. Good luck with your build and when you get to a show, remember, it's your car, you love it, and that's all that matters!!!!
I've heard and seen the issues that car clubs and groups of friends can bring when a show is participant judged. I've seen shows and even Autocrosses that make all kinds of classes and sub-classes geared towards helping their brethren win (usually Mustang, import or hot rod clubs) and then make a few other classes just to throw everybody else in that comes. When talking about car clubs as a problem at shows I've heard some say the age old advice of "If you can't beat em, join em."
I know exactly what your talking about James, been to a few shows put on by those grey beards where the Thirdgens are lumped in the same category as fourthgens and the 83-2000 Mustangs! Some out here are finally starting to offer the 80's and 90's category
EdPontiac- I am resistant to worry about the door jambs and some other areas, as an attendee and very infrequent participant I haven't seen judges want to open doors or get on their bellies to look under a car orgrab a flashlight to see the wheel wells. Have you seen this or been to shows where they do this?
Are participant voted shows more common than shows with a few judges and scorecards?
Yes, peer or participant judging sucks. Your up against somebodies personal like of a vehicle in your class due to painted flames, rattle car paint or some of their buddies showing up. I can understand what your saying about judges, they can be either very knowledgeable or not knowing their A** from a hole in the ground. You'll find some people at the show can also give you tips on products to use and what judges (that day) are looking for. You detail your car as to what you think improves it looks and don't forget, most of our cars are antiques, so their value is slowing going up and what you do to preserve them adds up!
I can understand what your saying about judges, they can be either very knowledgeable or not knowing their A** from a hole in the ground.
That's the reason I enjoy all Camaro shows, such as the Midwest Camaro-Fest held in Riverside, MO (though even there occasionally a judge won't get it right entirely right).
No advice other than go. Be present and represent, even if 50s music is all you hear. In the early 80s I heard the same music at shows when that music was YOUNGER than my thirdgen is now.
Ahem, those darned gray beards (yes, I watched the Beatles live on Ed Sullivan). Glance around at the shows and I'm sure you'll note that the majority of the participants are over a "certain" age. That's just the way it is.
I like going just to enjoy the day. With that said, the last car show I attended with my Mustang (Ford Nationals) was a 3 hour drive from home. I drove the day before and stayed in a hotel for the night. Part of the driving was at night. Needless to say, the next day I found more bugs on the car than you would find on a turd. I drove to the show and used a product called Optimum no rinse to wash the car. You only use 2 gallons of water and a few terry cloths. This stuff got the car looking clean and left a fresh glow finish on the car. Try it if you need to clean the car quick at a show.
Bring yourself an assortment of detailing products to do windows, tires, etc. Also, lots of terry cloths and paper towels.
The last bit of advice is to pack a cooler with beer and sandwiches, maybe some bottles of water. Bring a few foldable chairs and relax and have a good time. I don't concentrate on winning.
a lot of good advise posted in this thread.
i have two young kids so when i go to a car show, i'm just happy to get out of the house and hang out with friends for an afternoon. always bring a small cooler and a folding chair. i have a 10'x10' pop up tent too that i'll bring if the show allows you to set one up or if there aren't any shady spots at the show location.
for classes, most shows will tell you what class you belong in. some local shows here have started specific camaro or f-body classes. if not then you'll usually be put in the appropriate year range category for either stock, modified, etc...
preparing your car is a lot different for a judged show vs a participant judged show. if it's just participants voting, then all you need is a fancy paint job with shiny rims or a lot of friends. if it's an actual judged show, you're just competing against yourself. the more time you take to fix flaws and detail the car, the more points you'll accumulate. ask to see your score sheet after the show to see what areas you could improve in.
one pet peeve of mine is people who don't open their hoods at a show. if you have a nice car, but your hood isn't open i won't vote for you. i want to see that you take the time to clean the whole car and not just the outside.
another tip is for the dash plaques i get at the shows. they usually have double sided tape on the back. i bought a magnet roll at the craft store. i'll cut a small piece off and stick it on the tape. that way i can put the plaque on a metal cabinet i have in my garage. some day if i move, at least i'll be able to take all the dash plaques with me. eventually, i'd like to buy a spare hood to hang in the garage and cover with the plaques. i think that would look cool. below are pics of my dash plaque cabinet and trophy wall.
I have never entered a car show but have been to a few.
I was amazed to see how much dust can be kicked up and some of the cars had a thin layer of it resting on there beautiful paint jobs.
I would buy a "California Duster", like this one and get it nice and broke in prier to the show.
They work great and its fast. Less than 30 seconds and you can be around the car leaving the paint the way you want it. Clean....
If you follow the instructions on it before using it, it will work very well.
I live down the road from a truck stop that has gravel on the ground.
I have been using them for 10 years on paint that is 10 years old every day before I drive it. Could not imagine life without it.
one pet peeve of mine is people who don't open their hoods at a show. if you have a nice car, but your hood isn't open i won't vote for you.
If I walk away from my car, I roll up the windows and shut the hood. I have had instances where people were touching things under the hood with me right there. I also had people putting their hands inside the car. Since I don't enter the Mustangs to get votes, I don't mind missing out. When I put my Trans Am in the local AACA event, the car gets judged by the staff and I make sure it is ready for them to get judged, including having an extinguisher in the car.
I have had alot of fun bringing my cars to judged shows over the years and about 10 years ago I was really competitive with my 86 IROC and my 90 Vette. My IROC had won best in show a few times at all camaro / firebird shows and both had won best undercarriage. It's a whole lot of work to get the cars to the point of being really competitive in judges shows. The best advice is to attend a corvette only judged event if there is one close by to you, i'd argue that vette people in general are crazy fanatical when it comes to points judging for cleanliness. I have been in shows where I was required to remove my rear license plate to check for dirt as a tie breaker, and on many occasions my exhaust tips were checked for soot...
Make the car "pop" when you are walking up to it, it needs to be polished everywhere and have armor-all in only the right spots. In terms of tips, make sure that the underside of your rockers are clean, polished and free of bugs... Clean things that others generally don't, like polish the lens on your dash so it's crystal clear... use Calyx on your exhaust manifolds so they look like bare cast iron. Make sure your windows are perfectly streak free, something judges can pick right up on if they are not when walking up to your car. If your car has been repainted, make sure there is no overspray anywhere. Door jambs must be clean everywhere, in all the nooks and crannies.
Some shows will give you the points voting sheet to show where you lost points in certain areas. Use those comments over time to improve the car. It takes a few to get the hang of it but I found it fun and loved the competition. My restored 120k mile IROC many times beat out big $$ 69 Camaros, sub-1k mile TTAs, etc.
After buying my house and having kids, I have not had much time to do the judged stuff, but I recently took out my 91 1LE and won a judged show in my class and it was fun. Keep us posted on how you do!
Here are a couple pics of the last time I showed my 90 vette around 10 years ago. Lots of hours into wetsanding and polishing the original factory paint. This is what the undercarriage looks like today in its "neglected" state all these years later. I had about 200 hours into this and with a quick wipe-down it would still look like it did back in the day.
I used to be in judged shows that do require the door jambs to be clean. My best is 996 out of 1000 points. I had 1 point deducted because one judge felt that the ttops are considered body panels and said they weren't aligned front to back on both sides. Idiot!
After spending so many hours detailing the car, the last thing you want to do is drive it in the rain. The road mist gets up over the headlights and into the engine compartment.
Yes, these shows require you to have the hood open, doors open and trunk open. They check everything for clean, correctness, proper fitment and overall accuracy.
I started closing my hood when I walk away when I returned to my car once to find someone trying to remove my fuel pump relay!!
Idiot judge indeed. Didn't he realize thirdgens are out of alignment their very nature. If it's authenticity he wanted he should have DEDUCTED points for the aligned panels.
Pretty sure most of the points I would have brought up have been discussed somewhat.
My suggestion is be open and friendly with every person that looks at your car, and strike up that conversation if it looks like they wanna ask you a question, but are affraid to be the one to strike it up. I have met some really good friends from car shows. I had a pic of my car in Hot Rod, cause I started BSing with their photog, and later when he had his gear he came back. If it is a peoples choice, this "tactic" may put you over the edge vs the competition that ignored people or weren't there to create the personal connection.
Your car will win awards without any help. Gonna be sick!
Idiot judge indeed. Didn't he realize thirdgens are out of alignment their very nature. If it's authenticity he wanted he should have DEDUCTED points for the aligned panels.
The Corvette guys WILL do that!!!!!! ...deduct points for having "perfect" repop parts when the originals weren't....quite....perfect.
Tibo- I haven't read all the posts in this thread but i'll tell you what i know or at least what I've been exposed to...i'm a mechanic and my boss is a car show judge.
As said above, grey beards(my boss lol) are not very interested. To get attention at a car show it's going to need to be a very clean original. Cleaning up the body lines can't hurt but most car show judges aren't going to grade you very high, not yet, anyway.
Usually 3rd gens will do well in their age class like 80s-90s class. Unfortunately I get put in same class with the brand new stuff a lot of times. Judges don't usually like a lot of mods or graphics of any kind from what ive seen. Cleanliness is important and being "stock-ish" or purely stock goes a long way. Ive been surprised at how well ive done actually even though I just go to cruise different places with my friends. They have classic all out show cars. Mines just a nice driver and I enjoy getting it out often as I can.
Maybe one of the reasons 1MeanZ and myself started ThirdGen Expo, is that our cars are sort of misfits at car shows.
At some point, I'd love to have some more professional judging similar to what happens at Bloomington Gold. Judges who are knowledgable enough to advance our hobby.
Maybe one of the reasons 1MeanZ and myself started ThirdGen Expo, is that our cars are sort of misfits at car shows.
At some point, I'd love to have some more professional judging similar to what happens at Bloomington Gold. Judges who are knowledgable enough to advance our hobby.
Any volunteers?
Didn't that get moved to Champaign at the U of I?
I hope thirdgen expo doesn't suffer the same downfalls as Thirdgenfest, as fun as it was.
Maybe one of the reasons 1MeanZ and myself started ThirdGen Expo, is that our cars are sort of misfits at car shows.
At some point, I'd love to have some more professional judging similar to what happens at Bloomington Gold. Judges who are knowledgable enough to advance our hobby.
Any volunteers?
I have thought a lot about this and would be up for it! The same level as NCRS or NCCC judging... we'd have to come up with a nifty acronym and make it the standard to compete to
I have thought a lot about this and would be up for it! The same level as NCRS or NCCC judging... we'd have to come up with a nifty acronym and make it the standard to compete to
Boy, you'd be just the guy Erik! I'd love to be a judge myself, but for obvious reasons that's probably not a good idea.
Here are a couple pics of the last time I showed my 90 vette around 10 years ago. Lots of hours into wetsanding and polishing the original factory paint. This is what the undercarriage looks like today in its "neglected" state all these years later. I had about 200 hours into this and with a quick wipe-down it would still look like it did back in the day.
It's nice to have a judged event. But I like the idea of having a third gen specific show where everyone turns out. Whether they have a showpiece or a daily driver. Just turn out. Not enough interest in museum quality third gens yet. You would only have like 2 cars turning up if you only include trailer queens.
It's nice to have a judged event. But I like the idea of having a third gen specific show where everyone turns out. Whether they have a showpiece or a daily driver. Just turn out. Not enough interest in museum quality third gens yet. You would only have like 2 cars turning up if you only include trailer queens.
Absolutely. Not to hijack this thread but, Expo is open to all 3rd gens, from the showpieces to the primered daily drivers or projects. It's about getting 3rd gens and their owners together.
But, you look at your '82 Recaro restoration, Erik's cars, what Andy is doing with his '92 Polo Green Z03 in the History/Originality section and so many others - and these cars should inspire everyone to look at their cars just a little bit differently.
And that's where REAL judging comes in. It sets a standard which moves our hobby forward.
Absolutely. Not to hijack this thread but, Expo is open to all 3rd gens, from the showpieces to the primered daily drivers or projects. It's about getting 3rd gens and their owners together.
And that's where REAL judging comes in. It sets a standard which moves our hobby forward.
I really liked that Thirdgen fest had a best project category, not just because I won it but because it was a way to show a project before its done. It got members talking to the entries about how to do it, how to finish it or just good job so far. I really hope you guys keep that category...
I really liked that Thirdgen fest had a best project category, not just because I won it but because it was a way to show a project before its done. It got members talking to the entries about how to do it, how to finish it or just good job so far. I really hope you guys keep that category...
Expo does have that category, with a top of the line trophy. I love projects!
I'll also add, proper judging by knowledgeable judges, both inspires and lets the guys with projects know, what is correct and what is not, should they decide to go the resto route.
See, now I'm completely different from those old judges. I've been to many shows, and see many cars, and frankly, if I were judge, I'd throw extra points to people with rare cars than to the common cars. Frankly, I get sick of all the GTO/Chevelles 1st gens etc. out there. Show me an original LeMans that wasn't rebadged as a GTO and that car would get my vote. Along with original Capri's and other Mercury Cougars of the early 70's vintage.
So, sadly it sounds like rarer 3rd gens would just be passed over by judges. I swear, 3rd gens don't get any respect in the collector/show arena. It's bad enough when mags like HPP just ignored them.
Yeah, If you saw my picks for best in category, you'd say "wow, you really are a car nut!"
Let me judge. Those old timers with the dime a dozen cars would walk away in shock that they didn't win. "Lost to an AMC Javelin, did we?"
Last edited by MintWS6FORMULA; 06-28-2016 at 12:30 AM.
I like going just to enjoy the day. With that said, the last car show I attended with my Mustang (Ford Nationals) was a 3 hour drive from home. I drove the day before and stayed in a hotel for the night.
Always wondered how car owners keep people from messing with the cars at the motels. Do they have watch shifts among them?
06-04-2016, 10:21 PM
Did I say BOAT? Yes, I did.
