87david

I had my car painted about two years ago and I have been having problems ever since (sigh). It is a base/clear job that cost, if I remember correctly, about $1500-1600. This included putting on the 91-92 ground effects (originally a 87 IROC). I been having some really horrible problems with moisture hazing up the paint when a moist object, such as a wet leaf or rag, comes into contact with the paint and is allowed to stay there for a day or so. Because my T-tops leak I put a plastic bag over the leaky spot when it rains-- thereby being the impetus for later paint hazing that usually results when I later take off the plastic bag. This has been real depressing and has really zapped my enthusiasm in doing any additional work to my car.

I guess my question is can this paint issue be resolved by re-doing just the clear, or does one have to have the whole car repainted? In addition, the clear seems to very soft and slighest touch with your fingernail will leave a faint scratch.

This is what it looks like before it rains...

87david

Here it is after the rain...

87david

...again (hazing from bag left on car)

87david

bump

87david

one more...

speedingpenguin

iTrader: (1)

Well....I'm no paint expert, but maybe take it back to where it was painted and see what they say?
Awsome looking car though.....the stripes look real good

FyreLance

That's a really sweet looking car, love the color combo.

Have you tried using a really good wax?

speedingpenguin

iTrader: (1)

perhapps a clay bar too?

cam-

Seems odd. What brand of paint was used? Perhaps a hardner issue as clear with too little hardner never really dries well. Was flex added? Flex causes the overall finish to be softer. Do the marks go away or do you have to physically remove them each time they appear?

NEEDforSPEED

jugging by the "green colored water in your louvers" seems like you leave it out side a lot?


i agree with everone else!


the camaro looks nice btw....

87david

Thanks for the nice comments guys. It is impossible to take it back to where the paint job was done since they have since closed up, otherwise I definitely would. The hazing does evaporate eventually after it is left in the hot sun for awhile.

I don't really drive the car a lot because it makes me angry when I'm around it knowing that I got ripped off. The car has been almost totally restored since I got it five years ago. And just a couple of years after that time it got stolen and stripped so I had to start over again, hence my upgraded ground effects, hood (they stole the hood and wheels etc.), '88-90 style wheels, paint etc. So it is a real let down in thinking I spend money for paint again. I do like the color though LOL. Do any of you know if I can just strip off the clear and shoot it again?

Here's one more pic...

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

not to get off topic, but did those taillights come with the blinkers painted red from the factory? if not, please tell me how you did that! i hate the amber blinkers.

cam-

As long as it goes away on its own then things are looking good. You could try some high end wax perhaps Meguiars and see if that fixes it. If not then yes you can clear right over top of the existing paint and whats even better is it will make the paint look two feet thick. Most real high end jobs have dual application of clear anyway and you can just tape off most of the car and you will only have to do the exterior so it should be fairly low cost ( as far as clear coat paint goes anyway ) I would use RM DC92 clear as my first choice as it shines forever and is very tuff. Follow that up with color sanding and you will have paint second to none
I am sure if you consult with a reputable shop that you will find a happy solution. Good luck

JeffW

http://www.autobodystore.com/cgi-bin...ig.pl?noframes

that is odd isn't it. i would try a real good sealer first and a coat of wax. Have you waxed the car?

post the same question on the above link i have found it very usefull with my car repaint. You may be able to wetsand the car with like 600g and they shoot clear again. but i am not to sure about compatibility or weather that hazing will affect the adhesion of the new clear. it may be a hardener issue. how are the stripes on are they under the clear (i hope)

Jeff

87david

87roc & Jeffw:

Yeah, I have waxed the car-- but only the top of the car since it was the most susceptible area for hazing. I originally thought it best not to wax to help let the paint cure. It's been two years since then so I know that's not the problem. The wax does not seem to help. It seems to me that the problem stems from the temperature difference when a moist object is left on the car for a lengthy period of time--the moist object seemingly creating a "cool spot" which contrasts with the surrounding paint which is left exposed to the hot sun. This difference seems to “burn” the impression of what was in contact with the car. I know that this seems like a far fetched conclusion but I don't see how moisture could "get through" the wax (used Meguiars) and create a haze. I don't know for sure though.

Moreover, I have buffed out some of the more severe hazed areas when the sun was not hot enough to get them out. And one thing I have definitely noticed is how extremely soft the clear is. The slightest touch with your fingernail it will leave a mark. Maybe this is normal--this is the only base/clear paint I have experienced.

In all, thanks for the suggestions. I guess the only other recourse is to just have the clear redone. Just for curiosity did the guy you think that painted my car just mixed the clear wrong; is it just cheap clear? Do car painters mix their own paint or do they buy it already mixed? Oh, by the way how much do you think it would cost just to have the clear redone? Thanks.

Mw66Nova:

I’ll answer your question in my next post a little later. I agree with you about hating the amber I think the car looks a lot better without it.

JeffW

base clear needs to be mixed

i would bet the mix was wrong or the forgot something if its still soft 2years later it should not be soft for more then a few days.

my hok clear mixes 2:1:1 so 2 clear 1 activator 1 reducer

so if they forgot the activator soft clear, forget the reduce it would not shoot, over reduce not sure what that would do.

may be hard to find someone to just shoot clear over the old clear. i would expect mpost would not touch it but i may be wrong.

Jeff

cam-

Its hard to know with any certainty what exactly is causing this strange effect as none of us know what the shop has used for paint and clear or what brand or? They may say they used one thing but skimping out on cheap products is very common in the shady car painting bus. With body shops reputation is everything and if it sounds to good to be true it almost always is. You definitely get what you pay for. Speaking of cost its kind of hard to guesstimate what you are in for without seeing the car but around a grand would be pretty fair for good work combined with a quality brand of paint. Try and find a shop that has a good reputation through the older guys at your local cruise or car clubs. Someone who can give you the truth and not try to just sell you another paint job. I hope this is of help

87david

I have been planning on getting the clear redone for a few months now, but I have been hesitant to do so because like you said, 87roc, you don’t know what brand of paint or clear the shop used. I just know that once a dealer paint shop or other professional shop hears this they will want to paint the entire car over again so they can use their own “paint system” and brands. I doubt that they will want to touch it otherwise. However, the guy who did paint the car told me he used Dupont, but since he closed up shop, I am skeptical about everything he told me.

FYI: This shop that painted the car was not my first choice but was something my father set up after I received the car back after it got stolen. It was great that he did that but I know now that he was really gullible. My father did not ask about the brand of paint, time frame of job, total cost etc. The paint guy was nice and lived close by and that was evidently enough. I only found out the specifics of the job well after the shop started the work (took two months to get the car back).

I am contemplating in reshooting the clear myself if other paint shops won’t want to touch it. The stripes are underneath the clear so I won’t have to worry about that. Or, if it’s too much trouble, just bite the bullet and get the car painted again with a reputable shop. I have the money but I consider it maddening to spending it this way on a botched job—what a waste. Thanks for your advice everyone.

JeffW

i would try it myself get some house of color uk35 clear and reducer and calalist and 600g wet paper and sand ever so carefully. if you hit the paint its not good. get it smoothed out as best you can and shoot the clear. Hok makes a great clear i shot some the other day, i have heard some real good stuff on it. it is compatable with ppg, doubt it would hurt the dupont clear. or if your sure it was dupont get dupont. with the wet sanding it should help it bite, my only concern would be lifting, if the clear softens it may lift or it may help it bite more. but it is better than an entire repaint.

i also posted on the link i provided we'll see if anything comes out of it.

Jeff

jay92,85,79

iTrader: (1)

Man u know what that looks like to me. In some shops they use a liquid mask. Maybe they had to reshoot the back of the car and put that on.Have u tried do wet sand it any and use some rubbing comp. with a buffer.Than use a glaze after that (not wax) If u do take it to a shop ask them to see there mixing room. If they have all the same paint than thats what they are useing on your car. Now if they have a lot od differnt brands go some were else. In are shop we use sikins. And thats it it coat alot but it allway turns out really nice.

87david

Mw66:
To paint your tail lights like that all you need is some transparent candy apple red paint, I got mine from Hobby Lobby. Or you can get it online here: http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/tes/tes1605.htm

This is the exact same product that I used. I would recommend that you buy two cans just in case if you mess up. Somebody on these boards recommended the product and it definitely works very well.


How to do it…
I think everyone probably has their own procedure in doing this project but I will describe how I did mine. I cracked open the tail light assembly by carefully prying apart the adhesive that holds the tail light together with a screw driver and knife. FYI: you might not need to do this, but I found it better to paint the inside along with the outside thereby preventing you without having to put so many coats of paint on the outside of the lens which might cause the paint to look too “thick.” In addition, I tried just to paint the inside but it didn’t look right; too much paint will dampen out the reflective qualities inside the assembly.

When you paint make sure you work in bright sunlight and keep a flashlight handy so you can shine it through the lens after painting to help simulate the effect your tail light bulbs when illuminated. If you see a little yellow coming through, just add one more coat of paint, then shine the flashlight through again. Just keep doing that until you get a perfect match. I found out this the hard way when I did it the first time and later found it didn’t look realistic when illuminated by the bulbs. Therefore, I compromised by putting about 2 thin coats on the inside and 2 on the outside. Just put the least amount of paint you can. The project is not hard at all and is just trial and error. If you have any more questions, just ask. Hope this helps ya. Dave.

87david

Here’s a car pic…

You’ll notice that the tail lights look a little dull, but that’s because I haven’t cleaned them for a while. I might go ahead and clear them so I wouldn’t have to polish them so much.

Zrated83

iTrader: (17)

can you polish the lense you painted on? I would think it would eventually come off from polishing. Just wondering since I also painted in the inside of my lense but did not do the outside so I could still polish them.

87david

Yeah, Mike, I can still polish them. However, when I say "polish" I just mean putting on some glaze or some thing like it. In addition, I don't think it matters at all if you just did the inside, just as long as it matches. The paint is very durable however, so if you feel the need to do the outside, don't hesitate. I painted the tail lights a couple of years ago (the car stays outside all winter long) and it still looks great. Dave.

cam-

If you are brave enough to tackle the clear yourself I say go for it! Its really not that hard just make sure its very clean as this is the most important step. 80% of paint adhesion is chemical so ensuring ALL wax and grime is removed is priority one. The best part is even if you get a little orange peel or a run you can remove them with a little elbow grease and some patience and end up with a mirror perfect finish. Also make sure you use very good tape I recomend 3M and don't set the tape down on its side or it picks up all the dust/dirt and will not hold a clean edge allowing the clear to seep under. Not home Depot 3M tape... the stuff the paint supplier sells as there are many types and you wouldn't want one that will only hold off latex house paint You can dry sand the clear at 400 grit or wet sand at 600 and don't go too crazy here as you only need to create enough roughness to allow the paint a "tooth" to bite into. Giv er! and you will be prouder than ever when someone compliments your shiny paint you can say you did it yourself :hail:

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

did you paint the whole tail light assembly (brake lights included) or just the amber section. what did you use to put the assembly back together? would just painting the outside work? i am a little concerned about the disassembly and reassembly of the taillights. if you think it will look like crap though, i will paint the inside as well.

87david

mw66:

I understand how you feel, I felt the same way. You can just paint the outside if you wish. It would be much easier to do this--but, remember that since you have to put all the coats of paint on the outside it might look too "thick" and would contrast too much with the rest of the surrounding unpainted plastic. Sure, it would look good from a distance but upon closer inspection it would probably not look convincing.

If I could give the any recommendation it would be just to paint the inside. There are a couple of reasons for this...

Any imperfections in the paint (dust, lack of evenness, paint runs...) would be imperceptible when looking from the outside. In addition, the paint is shielded from the outside elements. You don't have to worry about paint chipping off later and exposing the amber. Constrastingly, the only downside to just painting the inside is that the paint might get too thick and dampen out the reflective qualities inside the lens. FYI: there are little "beads" that are part of the inside plastic lens that are designed to reflect light.

I compromised by doing both sides. It took more effort but I thought at the time it was the way to go. The difference is probably subtle and you might not consider it worth it. I'll leave that up to you! When you do the project just realize your going to make mistakes and will probably have to do some steps over again--make sure to keep paint thinner handy when you make a mistake. I'm sure the finished job will look great. Think positive.

PS. I did not redo the adhesive but relied just on the self contained clips that are part of the tail light itself to hold it together. They are very strong (be careful not to break them when prying apart!). Even though the adhesive is probably just used to keep out moisture, I recommend that you use the same type of adhesive (???) and glue it back together again.

I'll post some close up pics a little later tonight...

JeffW

the color change is defitanly a curing issue, i have yet to hear the fix from the ab web site i posted but i asked the question about if re shoting clear will fix the problme so i will let you know if i et any responce.

jeff

87david

Thanks for the info. 87roc, you have given me a lot of confidence! Although I have zero experience with this I will have a go at it. I can hear the compliments now…

87david

Thanks for the update Jeff. I agree with you guys, I think there is just no other way around to having to redo the clear. Thanks again.

jay92,85,79

iTrader: (1)

I asked the painter at my work (25 years painting) He said that he never ran into a prob like yours.But he said he would bet that they added to much or not enuff harden.

87david

Here's a close shot. You'll notice that the painted amber is understandably a little less transparent than the adjacent red plastic. This is why you want to use the least amount of paint so you can minimize this. You can also see the neat reflective effect of the "beads" (sorry, don't know what to call them LOL).

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

wow, thanks man, that helps alot. i want to do this mod. i don't have the grid lights though. do you think it would look good with the base model lights? the one with the black strip between the two rows? i think it will look unique! i also like graboid's mod (completely blacked out amber section, uses one of the brake light sections as a turn signal) but i think that his mod will require a little more effort/wiring mess.

87david

Yeah, isn't graboid's mod really cool. I checked out his car and it looks superb. On your question about whether to do it to base model tail lights, I say do it! If your tail lights are the same general design as on his car, that has always been my favorite design anyways. I always wanted to install the base model tail lights but feared the backlash of IROC lovers everywhere LOL.

cam-

Let us know how it works out. Patience is your best friend here. Good luck