StealthElephant

I've read a good bit and I'm wondering if I could get some opinions on what is involved in a "good" paintjob.

Assuming that top quality products are being used (paint/clear/primer etc) 1500-2000$+ just in materials, not counting labor.

Sand to metal or just a little on the paint?

Bodywork: I have a doorskin dent, fender damage, and bumper damage.

Have the doorskin taken off and replaced?
Buy a used door in good condition and switch?
Have the dent fixed? Picture

Replace fender with a good one.
Fix it? Picture

Replace bumper with new?
Fix it? Picture

Other then that my body is 99.9% straight minus 1 little ding on the driver door.

I'm going to have around 4-6k to work with. This summer my parents are going to let me take a 3500$ loan out to pay for school. They are going to pay for my college, and I get to keep that student loan to paint may car (as well as more money I save)

I want to start getting esimates from local bodyshops. I know everyone has different opinions, but I'd like to hear what everyone things "should" be done.

For example:

Bodywork
Sand
primer
sand
primer
sealer
basecoat
basecoat
clear
clear
clear
wetsand/buff

I am not sure what order some things like wetsanding go in. thats what I want to know. What kind of work will produce a very nice looking paintjob. Try not to be like "6k won't cover that much work" I am interested as to what "should" be done. Then I have to figure out what I can afford to get done in my budget and still get the best paintjob I can get. I dont' want to be "told" by a body shop that I don't "need" certain steps done when in fact they may be important. I want to be able to look at this paintjob 5 years from now and still be like "damn, that was money well spent". I don't want to be cursing the body shop because the guy "told me" I didn't need a certain thing done, and now 3-5 years later the paint isn't holding up as well because of a skipped step I was told I didn't need.

Thanks in advance

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

alot of it depends on the particular car and it's shape as well as the type of paint....every project is slightly different. are you changing colors? are you just repainting stock color? do you want a better then stock paint job including inside of pannels and jambs, etc.

there are many factors that make up a good paint job but the most important part is the prep work....obviously a good body man is important and it's best if you can get away without using any mud "bondo" on the car but sometimes that can be costly.

stripping all your pannels off the car and down to metal with the proper prep work is going to be the best way to go. however for your situation if it's the original paint they will probably fix your problems and smooth them out the best way possible while sanding down just enough for primer to etch and paint away.

keep doing more research and you'll find your answers...

StealthElephant

I just want the visible exterior painted. Basically, with all doors shut and the car parked, you look at it, and it looks good. Stock color.

I've heard that stripping down to all metal is not needed and and many cases you can just sand the paint and it acts as just as good a surface to prime.

Thnx Kandied...how much you pay for your paintjob? Your car looks great.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

thats why i said there are different variations and levels and which you can paint a car. to "correctly" paint a car you would need to take it completely apart. sounds like your just talking about sanding down the top coat and having them apply more color and clear.....it won't win any shows but it will be plenty fine for the street if they know what they are doing.

as far as mine.....don't ask.

StealthElephant

Pretty much, I just want to look at it and see no signs of poor workmanship (runs, overspray etc). Just a "good" paintjob....again, sand/paint/clear, but are there steps that can go in such as sealer, wetsanding? buffing?

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

obviously a good wetsand preferably color and buffing is nice after sorts. a sealer which should be used in the primer stages or is some times considered the primer should also be in effect. basically helps to fill in pores on the metal allowing for a smoother finish. there are many fine placed techniques that are used by different painters. check out some previous work so you know what to expect and if all else be very very very very specific on what you want and expect! make it clear before any work is done on the car and if possible get it in writing.

just understand that you can't expect a perfect paintjob for less then perfect prices. out here award winning will run you a min of 7,500 up to 30,000 but it doesn't have to cost that much.

good luck with it.

StealthElephant

Well I would think that something like sealing would be a durability issue....whereas color buffing/wetsanding might be more something done for the "perfect" looking paint. I dont' necessarily want a "show car" look, but I want a very durable paintjob. One that isnt' going to chip/fade etc for a good while.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

not possible with aftermarket paints....

best bet is to keep the car solid, no metallics or colors that fade easily like the brighter color ranges. solid reflective colors are better for what you want. you can't protect against fade and chips as easily with aftermarket paint.

StealthElephant

What do you mean by "aftermarket" paint? What kind of paint do I want? Whats the cost difference?

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

there is factory paint that was painted at the factory and there is everything else....

StealthElephant

Well I just want to find the best method of aftermarket painting. You hear about people who get a Macco job and 1 little tap and the paint just chips off. I want the best durability I can get on an aftermarket paintjob within a reasonable cost (not a perfect show job)

What causes paint to fade anyways? I mean, is it the top layer of clearcoat that loses its gloss? Im interested if there are any specials types of paints that last longer against the sun.

TB_91_GTA

The problem with a Maaco paint job is primarily the prep work. The paint itself sucks too, but the easy chipping and flaking is caused by the paint not having enough mechanical bond. Their are 2 types of bonding. First is chemical, for example a self etching primer that is applied directly to bare metal uses a chemical reaction to bond. Second is whats known as a mechanical bond, which is caused by a physical scratch (sanded surface). If done properly, either one is good. As far as fading goes, only single stage paint can actually fade due to the fact that there is no ultaviolet protectant over the color pigment (the clear coat is basically mixed into the color instead of being sprayed OVER the color). What can happend with clearcoat is something called die-back. That can caused by a few different things, some involve the temp & humidity conditions, an improperly ventilated spray booth, or even too much reducer / over activated paint. To make a long story short, just be sure to specify that you want a basecoat/clearcoat system (not single stage paint) and in my opinion I would look for a place that uses Dupont paint. I was an ASE certified painter for 7 years, and have used Dupont, Sikkens, Ditzler(PPG), and Spies Hecker paint systems, and Dupont gives a very good warranty on fading and die-back, etc. And realistically any halfway respectable shop would wetsand and buff the finished paintjob to eliminate any flaws such as hair, dirt, runs, or fisheyes.
Oh yeah, If you have ever been an Armor All fanatic, do the shop a favor, and before you take your car in for a paint job wipe down all of the rubber seals insde your doors, and around your windshield with rubbing alcohol. The painter will appreciate it. That stuff causes major problems when it comes to tape-up. Tape does not like to sick to anything with that stuff on it. Good Luck

StealthElephant

Heh, I never use armour all, I heard it actually dries out dashes and stuff.

Thanks for all the info GTA, I'll definately make sure to have all that stuff checked out (heh, i wonder how much autoshops are gonna hate me when i start asking about stuff like that)

Thanks Kandied as well....lots of good info.

TB_91_GTA

They won't hate you, but they will be a little more careful on your car thinking that you really know your stuff.

StealthElephant

Yea, well I'm sure some body shops would much rather deal with someone who doesn't know anything and just hands over money.

I hope it makes them do better work.

TB_91_GTA

That's true. As long as you avoid Custom shops, and dealerships, you should be OK. Just ask them if you can see the paint shop and ask them to explain their procedure to you. Ask if they have a heated downdraft spray booth. The reason I say that is because alot of smaller shops still use crossflow booths (due to the cost of a downdraft) and thats not a terrible thing, but you should prefer to find a place with a downdraft. They give you a much better airflow with a greater chance of less work afterwards(wet sanding and buffing) plus the forced heat helps to actually cure the finish instead of just drying it. And also ask them if THEY have any type of warranty, not just the manufacturer warranty. Where I worked, they guaranteed the paint as long as you owned the car.

I am not trying to make custom shops sound bad, but if you are not after "Show Quality" you will end up paying alot more than what it sounds like you are looking for.

StealthElephant

Theres a place by me that has been around for years, went from a small place and now they have this huge brand new facility. I figure if they've grown that much in the past 10 years they must be doing something right (I'd like to think)

I just want to avoid a place that does all "cheapo" insurance work, and find a place that does the kind of paintjob I want alot.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

just find a place that has painted a car you like.....the best experience and knowledge you will get is to go out to car shows in your area and look for vehicles that have been repainted to your idea of what the car should look like.

many shops stay afloat doing "cheapo" repair jobs so you can't judge a shop based on that. not to mention its just more experience work as well. go to a custom shop that does 5-10 cars a year and your going to pay. it's all about the research.

as far as fading and chipping. what was said above is a good point but also some things to consider are the actuall amount of paint layers on the car. if you have to many layers from years of painting or just too many layers when it is being painted that will cause the paint to be more "brittle" so it doesn't hold up to stone chips and other things that cause chips. more clear is better to help fix light scratches but you really can't add or subtract certain layers to plan for those things. you should just have it done the way it needs to be.

fading is very self explanitory. certain colors just fade easier then others and properties like pearls, metalics and candies especially fade quicker. go with white if you want a very easy paintjob to look after.

StealthElephant

Well a faded look, is that the clearcoat losing it's gloss, the clearcoat wearing away, or does the sunlight actually damage the paint UNDERNEATH the clear? Just wondering, because Ive seen places that offer UV paint, urethane paint, and stuff like that.

eastz28

Do you suggest 320 grit paper?

TB_91_GTA

It really depends. If it is your final sanding just before paint is applied, then you really don't want to go below a 400 grit. What i would suggest would be to either use a 400 or 600 grit wetsand. It does a much better job than dry sanding. And my experience is that Norton brand sandpaper lasts a little longer than other brands.

IROCFAST

iTrader: (3)

As an ASE autobody tech and shop manager I agree with almost all of what TB_91_GTA said. The only thing I disagree with is the brand of paint. I have also used all and think the PPG concept (DBC Based) is the best, but that is all personal opinion. I like it because you use the same reducers for everything. As far as sealing it, if you talk to many paint manufactures they will tell you it is not necessary as long as the car is prepped right. I also suggest the final sand before paint to be 400-600. I prefer 600 on colors with very fine metallics and dark colors because it leaves less chance for sand scratches. And as far as "aftermarket" paints not holding up as good as factory paints I am not calling anyone a liar but the factory uses the same paints we do...PPG, Dupont, sikens, etc. The factory only puts on minimal clear witch is what provides your UV protection (protection against fading). Every car that leaves our shop has a minimum of 3 coats of clear. This provides us with enough material to cut and buff and will still be better protected. You may also consider using one of PPG or Duponts Omni or Nason lines. I have not had alot of experience with Nason but the omni is pretty good stuff and I actually prefer their MC161 high solids clear over PPG's 2021 clear. The omni is actually more clear, and about half the price. It cuts and buffs beautifully. We have put it on 5 show cars this year and 3 have won best paint and different shows. As far as the door, I would get a used one and put it on yourself, make sure it is straight because body work is very expensive. As far as the fender, if you can find one cheap enough, replace it too. I would think that the body shop is going to charge you about 2hrs to fix that, and that means anywhere from $80-120 depending on the shops labor rate. On the bumper, it could be fixed but make sure the shop uses a flexible putty otherwise it will crack. Once again, we are talking at least $80-120+ to fix. If you replace those parts, it will be cheaper for you to edge them in (paint jambs) and put them on and install them yourself. As far as what to edge them in with, you could take them to the bodyshop where you are having it painted (prep the jambs yourself, use one of your mom's scotch brites and som hot soapy dawn water and scrub them untill they look dull, this will provide adhesion) or you could edge them in yourself. If you have any questions let me know and I will do my best to help you. Another option is to enroll in a body class at the local Junior college and do it yourself...this would be a hell of alot cheaper and you could spend the rest of your dough somewhere else.

irocfast@yahoo.com

This is a pic of my first paintjob:

StealthElephant

I'm probably going to just replace the door/bumper/fender. It might cost a little more to get the parts, but I can install them myself. Plus I think I would rather paint a damage free surface then paint a repaired surface.

I'd love to take a night auto class this summer, but right now I'm just loaded, between school, working on my car, and working a job to pay for working on my car.

I'll see what places are charging for a sand/primer/seal/2 basecoat/3 clear/color sand/buff. I'd like to get that 3 layer clear with buffing...I think that would give me a good looking paintjob. But I'll see what I can afford to get done.

Belker

StealthElephant - I suggest you goto www.Amazon.com and pick up "Automotive Paint Handbook" by Pfanstiehl or maybe "Pro Paint & Body" by Richardson & Horvath or some similar book(s). Read them and you'll have a greater understanding of what's involved. They'll help if you either do any of the work yourself or need to communicate to someone else what you want done. Everything you need to know can opbviously be found on the web but its nice to have a good source like a book easily on hand. You're talking about spending thousands of dollars and spending a few dollars to educate yourself can't hurt.