Dale

iTrader: (12)

87z, like I said, in a way, they are stronger. Their are also different grades of c/f. The hoods are usually made out of one that is the most "apperence" looking. Well that apperence one is usually a mid grade fabric, no the strong one. Also, the c/f hoods I have seen on euros at the shows, it was just the outter skin made of c/f, then the bottom was regular fiberglass, 1 to 2 layers of that. A reg fibglass hood has MANY layers of glass. So the combonation of few layers of glass, plus one apperence c/f is not strong at all. Then you also get into the different types of resin. Some are flexable, which is actually the best for a car, then have plates in the latch and hinge area. Its alot of techinal crap to get into. Like I said, in some ways they are stronger, if its built right. Most euros buy the cheap ones, they just want the look.

I spent a good 2-3 months researching this before I attempted to make a hood for my truck. I am buy no far an expert, but I did do alot of reading, and hunting.

87z28camaro

i say the ones around here have the cheap ones , lol, do you know anyplace where you can buy a camaro one with a ram air style?? i think that'd be awesome

86IROCNJ

Most of the hoods you see on imports are like $300, off of ebay none the less! They will turn an orange/yellow color by the end of a year! Very cheap, and like mentioned above, they are fiberglass hoods, with a layer of carbon fiber on the top with a clear coat for "protection". As far as the hood bolts/pins go, i am under the impression that our hoods that 383tpi will make are direct replacements for our stock hoods and hardware, so yes, no hood pins, totally "factory" looking.

86IROCNJ

No carbon fiber hoods exist, in production, to my knowledge for our cars. That is the whole meaning behind the recent posts of this thread! To produce a few. So no, there are no SS style or ram air style cf hoods produced that you could get a hold of. If there are, most likely they are the cheap ones you see on your local imports! good luck

johnyIROC

German-Mostorsports made his own out of honeycomb CF. That might be a picture of his, I'm not sure.

Dale

iTrader: (12)

Must be the cheapies, lol.

86iroc is right, forgot that part. If the wrong resin is used, it changes colors after a little over a year in the sun.
Even the good hoods, after several years of sun will change colors.

I have no connection on equipment, just what I learned and read off the net.

However, carboncomponets.com (I think thats them) were very nice and friendly thru emails, and fast shipping

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Kenny and I have over 30yrs Combines in Composits. I think we know what were doing.

As for the hood Its not gona be like the cheapies you have seen. They are gona be BOLT ON. as in all factory equip. No pin on. Unless asked for.
Yes there are diff. quality CF's out there and you get what you pay for. SOme of the CF is $140/ lb. others are not.

You want Strong... I can get Carbon/Kevlar mixes. even pure kevlar...

Dale

iTrader: (12)

I was not doging your experience what so ever. I have no clue who you are or what you do/don't know. I was just informing people of the varitys of c/f and different ways it can be made from my research on the internet.

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

i want an exact duplicate of my stock hood in every way possible; bracing underneath doesn't have to be "exact" but pretty close. the fit and finish must be exact to my hood as well.

it must be CF and nothing less as it must be strong and extremely lightweight over the stock steel.

i want to have the piece show up at my door ready for paint and bolting on the hood blisters....that's it.

if this can be done in a high quality way and not be way overboard in price then i have no problems with it.

count on at least 3 hoods for myself. again, i can't strees how important the stock form and fit is as well as the overall finish of the product. i do not mind paying for something that is worth it, but i won't pay that much for the cheaper imitations that are seen on the imports like described above.

89firechicken

is it possible to have the top half of the hood paintable and have the bottom half have the c/f look to it?

nolanr0413

carbon fiber looks good on **** but not that good on a f-body. i would like to see what one looks like when its painted, but i guess that ruins the whole effect.o can anyone answer this question, i got a fiberglass hood and it wasnt perfect and you sand and fill it but how do you fix a carbon fiber hood ?

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

you guys seem to be missing the point greatly.


the look of CF isn't why we want them. it's the lightweight and strength.

yes, if i had a black car or even a darker solid color i would want the CF look just for the heck of it.............well maybe just on a black car. but, i don't want that on my candy red car. i do want the strength and lightweight of it though.


those of you who are stuck on the "*****" ideas and what is and isn't "cool" need to grow up a bit and move on. this is either an idea your into or not, it isn't just for a certain "breed" of cars like imports or as some of you refer to as "****" vehicles....



so what kind of prices are you thinking.......7,8,900 give us an estimate.

86IROCNJ

About the question for fixing a hood, really nothing you can do once you have say, taken a chunk out of a corner! Fiberglass on the other hand, can be fixed easier if something like that were to happen. If you get scratches in it, there are ways to cover it up. I even heard you can protect some finishes with WD-40. Now, the reason i want one, i think it would look great with my color car, wheels, theme, ect. Plus the fact that they are not on every damn thirdgen, like cowl hoods. I am tired of the whole "me-too" concept of our cars. Time to try and be a little different, and if people don't like MY CAR, well then maybe some donations into my car's moddifications should be in order. I build my car the way i want it to be, end of story. I don't care what the Honda has down the street! About the strength issue, don't really know what the big deal is. If you get into some type of crash, that hood is done, no matter if it is built out of diamonds, the hardest element on this earth. Don't know why strength would be an issue in a hood besides the fact that fiberglass can be a little weak at times. My stock one has held up perfect for 17yrs. I just want one b/c i want one, not really too hard to explain IMO. To tell you the truth, i really want to see this get done, soon. Not trying to be pushy, just saying that i would like to see this get accomplished, and done right.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Ok, Under 900, I know that much. Still looking for good local sources for the CF.

I guess depending on who wants painted or glossy CF look can be worked out on orders.

As for the Under Hood bracking. I'll have to grab a stock hood again and look. Whats wrog with the Smooth inner side such as a aftermarket cowl as mine? reason I ask is because the inner of a stock hood looks lik eit will be a pita to make a b side mold out of.

Like I said I need to get the factory hood again to make a mod out of. So I'll know more then.

89firechicken

TPI383: is it possible to make the hood paintable on one side and have the carbonfiber look on the other

Kandied91z

iTrader: (7)

reason i ask about the bracing is because of keeping a stock look.

not necessary but would be nice.

as for the normal fiberglass, i don't like the unfinished look that most underside versions have. i also agree that i would like the underside to have as much detail as the top. half the time i use my car the hood is up so it must look as good as the top.

like i said, i'm all for it but it must be good quality all around.....

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

I understanf the Wanting to look as stock as possable. but your car is prob far from stock now with the stuff your doing. A smooth show quality underside would be 10x easier to do then the little rip braces etc. as if stock looking.

I know exactally what you mean by you want Quality work. This is why If this deff. gets done Im gona hold the hoods to standards id want on My car. and What you would want on your car to show.

Gona call kenny back today and see what he has dug up on CF prices. He still works in the industry and is cheking to see what cost would be on materials.

86IROCNJ

TTT

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

I havent forgot. I just work 6days a week 12hrs A day. Only day off is NOW(friday) and I have to wate till kenny is outa work around 4 to call.

86IROCNJ

Chris, i was not implying that at all! There was another member in the body and interior forum who had asked about carbon fiber hoods for camaros and i told him i would bring this thread to the top of this forum for him to look at. Or atleast that is what i said in my post in his thread. Sorry if it came off as being pushy, b/c i was not trying to be. Just trying to help out another member! So, did you get my emails with the pictures you requested? I sent them this morning. I too know how it is to be busy, with working overnights and going to school full time as well! Later-Bryan

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Ohh sorry, I didnt mean that as I thought you were being pushy, I seen the other post asking about it also.

Yes I got the pic's Like you said kinda hard to tell how the under slide slope is. Try and find a pic from under it.

86IROCNJ

Still trying! I think i need to check out some specific magazines or something b/c there really is not much on the net as far as those specific pictures. I'll find them though for you. So, any new word? Don't worry, my wallet can wait, so take your time! lol Later

Electron_Blue

does carbon fiber shatter like fiberglass......cuz if it doesnt it would be sweet to get some CF t-tops

92Transam

Umm they make drive shafts out of the stuff! If its good quality its stronger then just about anything you can put on your car but soooo much lighter.

RU-QWIK

iTrader: (3)

86IROCNJ.... I found that picture on a Japanese website... Maybe that will help you.....?

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Naaaa, prob not. Were talking about grafting in a viper naca scoop in his hood. Kooking for pic's of the underside of one.

RU-QWIK

iTrader: (3)

Oops... In that case, get ahold of Lonsal , a member of this board, he had that same idea a while back and could probably provide some pics, no guarantees though. He is a member of the Southern California club......

86IROCNJ

Thanks for the help! I'll try to locate him. See if he has some pics of the underside. Thanks again-Bryan

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Light and rigid, yes. Tough, No. CF is very rigid compared to other FRP composites, but it’s extremely brittle compared to even normal fiberglass. In race cars it’s usually used for it’s rigidity, but where any real strength is needed it is either hybridized or laminated with normal fiberglass or armid (Kevlar). When you see an f1 or similar race car hit a wall and they’re talking about how strong the CF tub is in it it’s really the Kevlar reinforcement in key locations. At impact the CF is all the dust blowing away around the impact, it just disintegrates, and the Kevlar is the fiber that holds the parts together…

If it’s shipped with problems in it and you intend to paint it you just prep it like you would any other bodywork, if you intend to leave it as CF then return it. If it’s on the car and it takes a hit… well, that’s a non issue, Straight CF will shatter.

composites have different properties then steel, what works structurally in steel will not usually work in a composite. If you really want to maintain a stock look to it (though under close inspection will make it obvious that it’s FRP), I’d consider making a composite skin, and then bonding the steel frame from a stock steel hood to the back side.

I’m not sure if TPI383 would be willing to spend the time doing it, but you could at least duplicate the pattern of the stock hood bracing by laying out a similar pattern using one of an assortment of materials used for bracing (mostly foams or balsa wood) in a pattern similar to the stock hood and then laminating over the top of them.

The problem with either of these solutions is that 90% of the time it will print through the outer skin under some conditions. Even if the skin is perfectly finished, the areas that are braced will be thicker and with heat will expand at a different rate then those that aren’t and often you’ll notice things like if you leave it sitting in the sun you’ll have a shadow of a pattern that matches the bracing under the skin showing up in the paint (which goes away when it cools off). It’s not enough of an imperfection to feel, but you will see it in reflections on a good paint surface on an afternoon (when the sun hits it at an angle).

If you really want strong and light, I would probably save a few $ and make it out of fiberglass woven roving (shouldn’t need much bracing), or if you want the ultimate then maybe an alternating ‘glass/CF roving weave. For that matter, for strong an light something with a more of a contour (some sort of scoop…) in it will not need to be as thick to be as rigid. Contours give FRP’s rigidity.

I would also completely skip the gelcoat if you can talk the person that makes it into that. The only reason to use gelcoat on parts that are going to be painted is to protect the molds from a monkey that misses a spot on one of the coats of mold release (on boats and stuff where it’s used as a top coat that does not get painted it also has a UV inhibitor that protects the plastic part of the FRP). If you want to see the disadvantages to gelcoat just look around the ‘net for pictures of FG hoods. You’ll notice that in most cases the corners are flatter then the stock hoods and never really match the bodylines. It’s usually much worse on a big flat piece like an f-body hood then a small, curved Honda hood. The reason for this is that even if the mold is perfect, gellcoat shrinks slightly as it sets and when the part is popped from the mold the skin will pull up on the corners of the piece. A second disadvantage is that gelcoat adds no structure to the piece, it just adds weight with no strength. If you’re worried about cloth printthrough through your final paint finish a good compromise is to use a ‘veil’ (very fine matt) as the outer layer of ‘glass.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

OTOH, if you're just looking for the CF look then just get some cf cloth and appropriate, UV stable epoxy and bond it right to the top of your stock hood... perfect shape, factory fit and bracing with a CF finish.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Wel said 83. I mentioned in the 1st page that roven weaven would be better and cheaper to use. and that a cf/kevlar mix would be strongest but most $$$$.
same for a stock look as for underbracking goes. If for just the STOCK LOOK IMO its a wasta extra $. I mean If your dishing out the $$ for a hood how much of the rest of the car is stock? rims? int. paint? motor etc...

but $$$ talks.

I need to know How many people are actually interested in a STOCK IROC hood?

Ive had interest in

COWL and joebloged(sp) hoods also.. I need to determine with is worth the better time and $.

86IROCNJ

TPI383, i would prefer the stock IROC hood. If you want, list a rough estimate of what it would cost to do with say 5 hoods being sold off the bat. I think people are more interested in numbers than talk! I myself personally do not care, as long as it is made with great quality. But i too have my high price, so an estimate would be great if you guys are up to that stage in development yet. If not, you could always e-mail me back with the info i would need. Also, about my vent idea, i just might go ahead and buy one. Then i could give you all of the pictures you would need. Let me know, thanks-Bryan

Z28ricer

iTrader: (2)

I want a flat one, no holes no indentions.

RU-QWIK

iTrader: (3)

As I posted before, I am wanting an IROC replacement... TPI383 , did you get the pics I sent you?

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Sorrry Tommy If I do it Its gona be a stock IROC hood right now.

Brian, Ya Im sure for a little Extra We could graft in the vipper scoop.

Jason, Sorry no try again. Send I just moved all my stuff to a new server so the e-mail might have got lost then. Send em again.

Thanks
Chris@cecoatings.com or tpi383@svol.net

As for price Kenny is still wating for a price on CarbonFiber from work. As 83 and I said roven w. fiberglass would be much better and cheaper. carbon FIber will be somewhat stronger and a carbon/kevlar composit will be strongest and cost the most.


Like said befor Untill we have a price on materials /labor on 1 hood I cant really give a SET PRICE. As mentioned befor Under $800 for straight CF. and deff. Under for regular r/w glass.

86IROCNJ

Sounds good to me. Personally, for right now i would not be painting it so i would like to have the carbon fiber look on top with a clear finish on it. I know some of the other guys would like it to be sent to them all prepped and ready for paint. I would really like it to be finished personaly. Everything else sounds good though. As soon as i know this is a sure thing and people are in on it and it is going to happen, i'll be more than happy to put some money down and also buy that Viper NACA Duct for my hood so i can give you a better idea of how it would work out, or if it will not work out! Keep us informed. Thanks for the time Chris-Later Bryan

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Just got off the phone with Kenny again. Debating Prices
Well go $750. + shipping cost of corse.

If your gona buy more then 1 as You said Kandied91z well drop to $650each

Im gona go pick up a stock hood Hopefully next weekend.

As for finished Brian E-mail me. We can work that out on a person to person basis.

If this thread gets Locked now E-mail me at Chris@cecoatings.com or tpi383@svol.net

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Now that is a killer looking hood, I'd bet that you'd get more intrest there then on the stock one. (Of course, what the hell do I know, WRT to f-bodies I've owned 3 pontiacs and no chevy's)

I'm curious since you seem to like the carbon/armid mix... what epoxy do you guys use? I used to use Kevlar matt for reenforcing white water canoes, and i hated the stuff, I couldn't find anything that would wet it out correctly so although you got killer impact resistance it would be worthless structurally. Even if you do manage to get it to wet out correctly, kevlar is usually considered the least rigid of all the frp's, but just about impossible to puncture or tear (or cut for that matter).

If I was going to build anything structural I'd stick with a CF/'glass and only use kevlar if I needed a section to absorb energy on impact.

BTW, TPI383, if you haven't figured it out from the avitar I'm silverback on the other board...

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Did't notice that at all..lol.... Cool.

Only reason I even considered CF is cuz Thats what the buyers want. If it was my call Id just use roven w. Strong enough for any abuse you can put a hood through by openin/closin it.

C-Dawg

Personally I really like the idea of a 3" carbon fiber cowl hood.....thats what route I would go, and if it takes off and i ever have money its something i would consider

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

I wasn't wondering about the CF (that's obvious between pimp factor and rigidity), but I was wondering about your apparent preference toward Kevlar bearing hybrids, since I've hated every bit of kevlar that I've ever worked with.

BTW, the attachment is the 'glass heater box that I was talking about. It's a little rough on the outside since it was made laying the fiberglass over a plug made of cardboard, duct tape and pieces of the original AC style heater box (didn't waste my time with making a nice mold for such a trivial piece). The nice thing is that it uses the larger AC style fan, is smaller then the factory non-AC style box cost me nothing, just time (I had the glass, resin… sitting around). This is with it sitting upside down, the top facing toward you (I think it looks better in person, but I’m happy the way it turned out considering small details and sharp curves):

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

here it is with the bottom facing you (yea, I even molded in a fitting for the motor cooling duct...)

89firechicken

thats pretty nice would you consider making another to sale?

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Mmmm, I might see myself making me something simmilar. That is nice.. but I love my smooth firewall look.

Ive been thinking about just doing some kinda custon job under the dash since I gutted Everything behine there anyways. then using 2 an fittings low down by the frame rail. going to a modded heater core inside.

iansane

iTrader: (1)

As I asked on 3g.o, would you make a firebird formula hood? How much more would that be? I'd want the CF to show as a contrast to everything else on the car...

89firechicken

tpi 383, i have some qusetions for you. first, is it possible to make a hood with it paintable one side and c/f showing on the other.
second, i e-mailed you on some header coating quotes and i was wondering if you got it or if i should e-mail you again.

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

Well, if someone was willing to pay for my time doing it, sure, but to be honest I would be REALLY surprised if someone was. The problem is that what you’re seeing there is almost as much work and in a lot of ways more complicated then making a one off hood, and then prepping it and painting it. I doubt that there would be $20 difference in cost for the materials and supplies between that and a custom ‘glass hood.

The reason that it’s relatively complicated is that it’s a relatively small and very 3 dimensional shape. Even GM didn’t try to do what I have there in one piece. I believe that their’s was cast in 3 pieces that screw together. I had to destroy my form to get it out.

In my case the shape was dictated by me wanting to try something funky with a turbo manifold and needing space, and I wanted something that kept the sorta ‘angular with reinforced ridges’ theme that gm parts have. Something that looks right at home with the rest of the GM stuff but nicer…. To be honest I consider mine somewhat of a hack job, I’d never let something that I was selling to someone else leave my hands looking like that (you should see the custom speakers/studio monitors that I’ve been building recently).

But if you really need something custom with that shape or a similar shape (say the whole thing curved instead of squared off or something) I could do that… get in touch and tell me what you want.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Not at this time... Maybe down the road. I work 6days on top of doing my powdercoating..

Let me look at my e-mails again I dono if I got one for a header quote or not.

Paintable on one said and CF is possable .. anything is for the right price..

83 Crossfire TA

iTrader: (2)

I don't get it, why not just order the CF looking one and paint one side of it? Gelcoat is just resin/epoxy with a pigment added, you'd be painting over the same basic stuff, just one is clear and the other isn't. Besides, any good body shop will seal, prime, surface, reseal, color and then clear coat the hood to match the rest of your car.

89firechicken

because he was saying for paintable c/f it's a diffrent material and (or) resin than the non paintable.