MarkB

yeah...i got owned! damnit.

i put down 191 hp and 236 tq from a DECENTLY BUILT 350 wtf wtfwtf

btw i have a vid...dont know if this link will work but here goes

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/msgr/transa..._____D1L0LY5Jw

if it dont work...someone let me know..and maybe someone can host it for me? its 20 seconds with audio and its 500kb

92Transam

Is that the stock engine???

CrashStitches

if you wash that sucker before you dyno it, I bet you gain 13 rwhp

Brian Felts

Mark , what are teh spec on teh motor? No that does not sound right. Is the carb computer controlled? Dist curve set? 350 does not automatically mean power. Perfect example race a 1975 Vette. So shoot out the specs and let us see if we can help.


Brian

Mark A Shields

350s weren't offered till '87.

Does seem pretty low, but maybe not. If your motor is putting out 250hp at the crank, then that will seem about right with a 30% loss in HP to the wheels. What are the specs.

fast83camaro

I bet it's your heads.....although you havn't told us the specs on your motor yet...

iansane

iTrader: (1)

Was that at the Crew's dyno gathering this last weekend? Who all was there? 190 isn't tooo bad. But it does seem like somethings wrong on even a mild treefiddy. What's in the 350?

Still haven't used to clutch and **** I bought off of ya but someday I will.

83firebirdS/E

I think so too. Clean that thing!:lala:

MarkB

well heres the deal... first off i have a screwed up rearend,the pinion bearing is really bad...so the rearend howls...and is dragging alot down,second off i was told i was running DANGEROUSLY lean....from a 2krpm cruise it was runnnning stoich...when i mashed it,it went hellllllllllllla lean dropped like a rock. and im still running completely bone stock 1982 style exhaust ....log manifolds,2 1/4 pipe and that lovely 82 style muffler setup.

heres the setup

350 4 bolt main stock bore,ported and polished 305 HO heads with 1.94 valves 58cc chambers,edebrock streetmaster single plane intake,holley 650 double pumper carb,comp extreme energy 280 cam,and stock style exhaust.

tranny is a brand new th350 with 2200 stall,rearend is a screwed up 3.23 posi...i have a perfect 3.42 rearend waiting to go in..with the slp posi.

so wutcha guys think?

and yes i know the things filthy we wrenched on it friday night till midnight to get a leak stopped...then drove out at 7 the next morning 70 miles away. BTW i just got the car done with teh camswap not even a week before the dyno. we tried finding a car wash..couldnt before we got to the dyno

92Transam

Sounds like you need an exhaust sytem, headers and maybe some heads!

MarkB

hehe i just got my new headers in on thursday eveneing...didnt have enough time to install them on friday...had too much going on with the car.

im ripping the complete exhaust out,and the rearend prolly tommoroww. bought a jet kit for my holley too. ima get this sumbich figured out.

85_ZED28

keep us posted!

89blackGTA

At least you have stuff to do to it and a dyno to start with. Now just get all your goodies in get new heads and get that sucka dynod again.
And I have seen much dirtier thirdgens
Brian

swerve-driver

I think fast83 hit it right on the head (pun intended). If budget allows, I'd try some vortec heads, a manifold and headers. Would likely help quite a bit.
You sounded dis-appointed, but keep at it. It will get there!

Best-

S-D

Sitting Bull

If you did the heads well (ported, polished, blowl-blended and gasket matched) then they don't need any more attention.

But you are about to be stupefied by how much hp comes out of the woodwork from putting on the headers and exhaust. I'll bet you see at least 50 hp more

MarkB

already has a decent intake manifold on it....i might try a rpm air gap :shrug: the headers and new exhaust is going on tommoroww...and im thinking of either the 195 or 210 cc AIRFLOW RESEARCH heads... along with ANOTHER camswap.

Sitting Bull

Read this column: http://www.hioutput.com/tech/290hp/290hp.html

Here is a quote:

Test Results

"With the engine installed on the dyno, the fuel curve, total timing, and timing retard under detonation were left pre-programmed with the stock GM computer chip. However, the initial static timing could be varied, and the tests showed that 10 degrees BTDC yielded the best overall power. Any additional initial advance activated the detonation retard with the 92-octane unleaded premium pump gas being used.

First, dyno headers with 1 5/8-inch-diameter x 28-inch-long primary tubes that dump into 3-inch collectors were evaluated with no mufflers or catalytic converters. The O2 sensor was functional, as it would be in all subsequent tests. The best run produced 291 hp at 5000 rpm, nearly 1 hp/cubic inch. A maximum of 333.2 lb-ft of toque was recorded at 4000 rpm.

Next, Hedman EO headers were installed, feeding into 2¼-inch dual pipes hooked to giant 3-inch in-and-out dual catalysts, back down to 2¼-inch pipes fed into low-restriction mufflers. This combo actually made 3.2 more horsepower and 2.4 lb-ft more torque at the peaks compared to the headers/open exhaust baseline. Although dual cats aren't 50-state smog-legal, other tests have shown that under the 300hp level, one large, low-restriction converter fed by a Y'ed-in 3-inch pipe from the headers and backed by a good cat-back exhaust system typically shows a minimal loss of less than 10 hp.

The pathetic stock LG4 V8 exhaust system uses iron manifolds with only 2-inch outlets, a 2-inch in-and-out converter, and a restrictive muffler. When it was tried, power fell off to only 233.7 hp at 4500, a loss of more than 64 hp compared to the dual-cat setup. The new peak was also 500 rpm lower, a clear indicator that the poor factory setup restricts breathing ability."


This was on a 305, so imagine what you'll get with a 350!

MarkB

WHOLEY CRAP!

when i built up my red 82...i did EVERYTHING at once...no mod here mod there...so this is kinda new to me somewhat.

i cant beleive a 63 LOSS from my exhaust

so with the headers and good exhaust 250rwhp is possible.

also getting that screwed up rearend out will helpe me ALOT it drags the car down alooooooooooooot. maybe 300 to the wheels is possible with the exhaust,new rearend and some good tuning... anybody think so?

89blackGTA

That seems like a bit much, but who knows. that would be sweet if you got all of that taken care of and you were putting down 300hp. Good luck

Brian

camaro-mayhem

bah.expect less than 250, when you want 300 and come back with 250 youll be kicking your *** again.

bj350hp

iTrader: (1)

190 is ant bad

A stock 98 Z28 that has 305 hp only puts out 260 or so HP at the rear wheels

(also keep in mind that GM under rates the camaros mottor so the actul HP is closer to the Vetts 345hp)

90Formula-X-F

Yes, fix the rear end and do some mod's.... Are you running a cat ? that old it could be plugged... Your headers with a new 3' exhaust and a high flow cat. Also a personal preferance would be a brand new Holly 750 Dominator carb and I'd put some good flowing 350 heads on that are agressivly ported, get the right CC's to match the engine compression and I bet your looking at 70 - 100 horse rwhp difference, maybe more... Cam should be ok

lock

191 hp and 236 tq with decent 350?????????? You have some serious tuning issues or build parts issues.

89blackGTA

hey Mark, how much did it cost to get it dyno'd?
Thanks
Brian

cac91

Just want to help you out so you don't hole a piston or something. If you put headers on, the lean situation will be worse and probably cause some damage. You need to tune the engine to get the power. You obviously have money to dyno test so take advantage of it!

Sitting Bull

IMHO, the stock exhaust IS the restriction. When you have good flowing heads and a well matched cam on that 350, which is obviously the case for your engine, the stock little exhaust manifolds, pipes and mufflers are just STRANGLING that mouse.

Even on a stock LG4 305, pumping out all of its glorious 145 hp or so, shorty headers and a 3" intermediate pipe into a decent dual outlet muffler adds 30 to 40 hp. Just like that.

No kidding.

Don't despair, you are in for a nice treat once you get those headers and exhaust installed

Sometimes folks just don't realise how HORRIBLE the stock third gen exhaust is--until they dump it

MarkB

well you can guess what i plan on doing tommoroww

btw anyone need/want a complete stock style 82 exhaust?

thanks for the info bud

Sitting Bull

Mark,

You are welcome. What you have is a champion sprinter being forced to breathe out of a straw. Kind of like constipation, you know?

It will run in the 13s, no problemos, once you tune it up.

Squeeks83

ya that sucked mark, i put out 213.89 HP at the wheels and 307.82 TQ at the wheels, thats with ported stock 1.94 heads, Edelbrock performer intake, edelbrock 600cfm carb, summit cam part number sum-k1104, and then a bone stock bottom end. not too shabby.

Squeeks83

a

Squeeks83

b

MarkB

lmfao@ consitpation yeah i know wutcha mean...thanks again for the advise dude...

hey you got any messenger programs? would like to talk with yua

Sitting Bull

I never run the ICQ program that I have. Feel free to email me at tsauve@shaw.ca

70formula

MarkB - what year is that engine, and what is the compression? What year are those 305 heads?

MarkB

well ive heard 2 storys of what the motor is when i got the shortblock,it had been fully rebuilt and never been fired when i got it.

ive heard its from an 80 camaro z28,and its possibly an early 70s but i dont know,i was alos told it was a 2 bolt main..but when i did the cam swap it was a 4 bolt main.

running the block numbers it comes back as a 67-80 350 4 bolt.

the heads are from a 84 maroz28 L69 HO

its got the 58 cc chambers and 1.94 valves were put in.
ive talked wit hseveral people about the compression issue..and the motor stock is 8.7 to 1 compresson on 76 cc heads. with the 58 cc headss i beleive its 9.7 to 1 ........it will ping on the top end if i dont run good gas. im not sure how good it runs on mid grade...once i noticed the ping i ran that fuel out and havent ran anything else then pump premium since. runs great...just runs very lean on the top end.

90Formula-X-F

Go with the exhaust of course. When building an engine the heads are the begging step. Don't know what pistons to buy untill you have a set of heads. This is my opinion and I know it's what start wars here but I don't think the 305 head on a 350 are the way to go. If it were I bet you'd be reading it by all the big time engine builders. Also I see flow numbers as good as a set of maxed out AFR's here on a set of 305 heads. That's not happening. Take things with a grain of salt when considering some of what you read. Use everything as a commomn base to make decesions. Not everything writen is law.

A set of 76 cc's heads have great flow potential with big valves right out of the box and that is why they are an option with most any aftermarket suppliers. They utlilize the short turn radius to feed the valve faster. The valves run cooler which slow thermal expansion on the exhaust valve so more air flow is allowed. Valves are unshrowded allowing better flow at lower lift levels and with the use of a very small dome on the piston to up the compression to 10 - 1 will increase swirl on the intake stroke allowing for a better burn, more turbulance which will wrinkle the flame front, creating burnt gases in the unburned region, and vice versa. The result is more power from the flame front. Ever wonder why Lingenfelter recommends pre-1975 smog heads ?
Add the port voliciety of a TPI motor and it's Rock-n- Roll time.

MarkB

we'll see im working on tearing the stock exhaust out right now. im going to take it for a short drive open headers and see what happens over the stock manifolds and stuff.

brodyscamaro

theres been more then a few bone stock LS1 fbods getting 315 RWHP, i think they were all new (and of course bone stock)

89blackGTA

My buddy has a 98 Z28 that is really fast stock. But I drove a 99 once and OMG was it fast. I couldnt believe the difference in the two stock cars.

Brian

MdFormula350

not a bad video..

TransAm12sec

I love the center caps on the rear wheels.

RMK

I wouldn't have my car on the dyno without tie downs on the rear.

MarkB

umm it had tie downs front and rear on it when i ran the dyno.

and ty transam12sec and mdformy for the comments..

RMK

Sorry, they are difficult to see in the video.

89firechicken

hey markb if your looking for some afr heads hit me up i know of a company that should cut you a real good deal on them. their website is in my sig.

MarkB

how good of a real good deal? i really dont want to screw with paying 4-500 bucks for a set of decent iron heads when i can throw down 1200 on a set of pure badaaaaaass AFR's ,especially since i can use them on the next motor i plan on doing...which is either a 391 OR a 406 but i am definatly interested in a set of AFR's...preferably either the 195cc or 210 heads.

89firechicken

i'll get a quote for you

89blackGTA

I went to that shop when I lived in Phoenix and had my 96 Z28. I was just talking bs with them about stuff to do to my car. They were super cool and had pretty good prices. I didnt know that they had a webpage until now. Sweet.

Brian

Sitting Bull

Well we're anxious to hear from you regarding the header swap. Notice a difference yet???

MarkB

dont know yet bud...i should be done enough to take it for a drive open headers tommoroww..the weather here is VERY ****ty! I PROMISE i will keep you guys posted. i pla non re dyno'n around the 1st of feb to give you guys some hardcore proof what headers will do for hp.

ill post later on today the results if i have any.