joezero

So how would that work then? Would you still cut a piece of steel to fill in the holes and then instead of welding it in filling the seams with the adhesive? I'm not worried so much about the welding part as I am about taking a grinder to the car after that. Cause I've only used a grinder on parts that I wanted to cut out (like those annoying rivets in the door panels) and I'm afraid that I'd end up cutting right through the door skin.

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

Yes, you still use it in small quantities, to bond steel rather than fill it. Sort of like JB Weld. I'm talking about a small grinder, not one of the bigger ones. I used a die grinder with coarse roloc discs for mine.

LowCamaro

so do you think JB weld would work to hold a piece of sheet metal in then?

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't recommend it...I'd use the stuff designed for it, or just weld it.

joezero

What magazine was that article in? It sounds like something that would be worth checking out.

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

I think it was Street Rod Builder, from a few months ago. Its a great magzine for anyone interested in custom stuff, and working on cars in general. I'll see if I can find the issue this weekend and post some details.

LowCamaro

Yes and what would that stuff be called that you are talking about LT1 guy?

LowCamaro

Oh and also,when i do fill the doors with body filler...sould i use the lightweight , short strand , or long strand fiberglass stuff?Ive also seen the mettalic bondo before.Which should i use and which stuff did you use redraif?

joezero

I checked their website, www.streetrodbuilder.com but that article wasn't one of the ones they had posted. I also just wanted to let everybody know that I'm putting together a website on shaving the door handles/solenoid installation and on changing the door panels. So as soon as I go and get more batteries for my camera so that I can take the last of the pics, that'll be up.

LowCamaro

cool man! make sure ya give me the adress of that site!

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

I don't remember the name, but it was a two part epoxy specifically for bonding panels. Still haven't found the article; it may have been in Super Rod, which is the sister publication to Street Rod Builder.

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

We didn't fill the doors with filler; we cut pieces of sheetmetal to fit, tacked it in place, then finish welded it, skipping around so as not to warp the metal. After grinding the welds smooth, it only needed a small amount of bodyfiller (regular lightweight stuff, or AllMetal). We sould have used AllMetal, but I didn't realize that my can had dried up and we were in the middle of the job. It shouldn't require much filler at all if the panel is cut and welded properly.

LowCamaro

hmm,ok well ive got the sheet metal all cut and ready to weld now.I need to know if it will be ok to just tack weld the metal in at a few spots.LT1 guy,i know you said you guyz did a full weld,with skipping around.Do you think just a few tack welds would be ok?Like maybe 4 or 6 of them?

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

No, if the metal isn't solid you could potentially get moisture behind the patch, and have rust problems later on. All you have to do is make a series of tacks, all the way around, until its it solid. The actual welding doesn't take near as long as making the patterns and fitting the patches, so I wouldn't rush this step. Even if you had to pay a professional welder, if you do all the prep (making patches, etc) it shouldn't be more than an hour's labor, if that.

CrazyHawaiian

I dont really have any info on shaving the handles (I'm not a body man ... well not good one anyway hehe) but I wanted to tell you guys about a company you can use to integrate the popper solenoid's with your alarm. The company is called AutoLoc and you can visit them at http://www.autoloc.com. AutoLoc is badass because they design alarm systems for show cars with shaved handles and keyless entry systems. I know its possible to get the poppers to work with the Aux ports on most alarms but AutoLoc takes it a step further by integrating everything together from the start. They also have addons for yor system that you can integrate into your setup. Stuff like the one touch window down, or remote window or start. You'll especially want to check these guys out if you want to convert from manual to power windows or locks. I'm not affiliated with them or anything, but they have really good stuff. Thought I'd let you guys know about it.

When I do my 91z I'm definately going with AutoLoc. I plan to shave the doors (locks and handles), as well as install 99 T/A doorpanels on the inside. I'm gonna make everything on the doors electric ... the windows, the locks, and the handle. That way I wont have to deal with relocating the handle on the inside (just go electric!). I'm still on the lookout for the best aftermarket window and lock motors. AutoLoc will be able to provide everything in one system with one remote (and 16 functions!).

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

Thats the system I'm going with on my 85 TA...there are all kinds of interesting possibilities with it.

IROC_5796

Im going with shaved door handels myself, Ive got a buddy of mine welding in the sheet metal and doing body filler is easy, the key is not to use to much to keep the smooth look,

summit racing sells the door popers 15 pound kit wicj is good evough for a camaro or firebird a 35 pound kits is used for heavy doors like a caddy or big as trunks. it retails for about $100

and as far as that red firebird goes "i believe its redraifs or somthing like that", I like it its original and originality does more for a car than being the same as everyone else, if you dont like originality then buy a cavalier and join the everyday club. just my opinion on that.

CrazyHawaiian

I recommend you research different brands of solenoid's before you buy. Depending on where you live, you might want to buy 'better than normal' ones. Remember that these do control weather you get into your car or not. For some people in cold or wet climates, you might want to get solenoid's from AutoLoc because they were designed to resist freezing shut or rusting. I'm going with the 50# kit myself because I daily drive my car (and I dont want to be replacing the solenoid's once a year).

IROC_5796

the only thing im not sure of when it come to the door poppers is how do they pull the handle rod or unlock the door so the latch is realeased when the door goes pop.

88 WS6 TransAm GTA

iTrader: (1)

I just curious as to why the hell CERTAIN people have to post their sig EVERY GODDAMN TIME THEY POST IN THE SAME THREAD? We know who the hell you are, and we dont give a ****. Some people are getting tired of the useless clutter that it creates. Please do us a favor and uncheck that little box labled "Show Signature".

I think 1 time per thread is sufficent, not 56.

CrazyHawaiian

You think this is bad? This is nothing. I've seen much much worse on other messageboards.

88 WS6 TransAm GTA

iTrader: (1)

Not you.

jims87camaro

i don't understand the segue. you went from defending your girlfriend's car to attacking all thridgen owners?

log this in your infromation file: no '80s mustang, vette, turbo buick or 2.2 fwd dodge omni in stock form can come anywhere close to walking all over my car. and i ain't done yet.

sleepers are boring? not by a long shot. i would agree that sleepers only work if you finish the 1/4 mile before your opponent crosses the 60' line...

IROC_5796

to get back to the topic at hand, does anyone actually know how door poppers werk, I know they pop the doors im looking at how do they open the latch and unlock the door or is the lock disabled, ive been looking for instructions and diagrams on the net but havent found anything.

redraif

Ok here is how my install went.....You have to take off your door panels and look inside at the latch mechanism. Its located on the end of the door in the middle. You have to pull the handle and watch what it moves in the mechanism. See what controls what. I tripped the door latch with the door open, like it would be when it shuts and hits the door pin. It moves and locks so the door will not open till the handle is pulled. Once the handle is pulled a lever moves and releases the lock on this part of the latch. When this part releases you would normally be able to pull the door open.

So now you have isolated the what and how. You then get the solenoid and find a place to mount it where it lines up with the part of the latch that is pulled/pushed by the connecting rod when you pull the handle. You use the hardware supplied with the kit to and attach it to this lever. With a few test runs you adjust the length and final placement of the solenoid, so it works at its best efficiency. You then add your striker and the door stricker pushes the door open past the door pin when the solenoid engages.

I hope this is clear. It not easy for me to explain without a door here to point to and show you what I mean.

redraif

There is an option you can select that will stop the sigs from showing up when you look at a thread. Just a thought if the sigs bother you.

Omega

iTrader: (1)

IROC_5796:

The setup is pretty simple. There is a spring that is mounted on the body of the car that faces the door. When the door is closed the spring is compressed. When you hit the door open button a solenoid activates the door latch that the handle would normally activate. When the latch is released, the compressed spring pushes the door open a little where you can grab it and open the door the rest of the way.

A door lock just prevents the door handle from being used. You can take the lock mechanism out or leave it in, it doesn't matter. It is no longer needed since the door handle is used.

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

I'm not attacking anybody; I love third gens, but know their limitations in STOCK form. They were slow. They looked fast, but weren't.

I never said sleepers were boring...if you read the whole post, you'd know that.

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

Sorry... I did post my signature an excessive # of times. That said, if something as trivial as that gets you so worked up, you've got a problem. Chill out.

IROC_5796

redraif where did you get your solenoid, and what are some decent brand names, i didnt think there would be much of a difference with brand names but someone mentioned it.

redraif

I have the VPA popper kit from Summit. It came with solenoids for both doors, the poppers, adn the brain and remotes. I am not familiar enough with the other brands to say what is better.

IROC_5796

i was going to get the summit one so thats good to know it werks.

LowCamaro

What sux is i called the place i ordered the kit from(2 weeks ago)expecting it to be there today...and they said becuz of the holiday(US,not canada) it wont be here till NEXT friday,maybe even later!That will be a total of 3 weeks ill have waited then!Sorry ,just had to say that,i really want my kit!lol

IROC_5796

which kit did u get, the part number, just wanted to see if its the one im looking at, how much did everything cost with shipping in canadian dollars.

LowCamaro

weelll,its the 35lb kit from SPAL,i got it at cost for $300 canadian.i didnt have to pay shipping or tax cuz i know the guy.Retail i think was $380 canadian.

IROC_5796

why did you get the 35 pound kit? i was told that a 15 was good enough

CrazyHawaiian

I'm going with a 50# kit. Our doors are heavy compared to the weight of the average hotrod doors these kits are designed for. I want the poppers to last for more than 1 year ....

LT1guy

iTrader: (1)

50lb poppers may be too much...Redraif's are I believe 25 or 35. You only want enough to pop the door open...if its too strong, you may smack your door into the car beside it in a parking lot. It doesn't take much force to pop a door open an inch or two.

scauffiel

You guys are killing me. The "pull" rating has nothing to do with how far out the door is going to pop - it has everything to do with the amount of force the solenoid is going to exert on the handle opener mechanism when it "pulls" into the housing. The 35#er's exert 35 pounds of force when the solenoid actuates, 50#er's pull with fifty pounds of force - that's 35 and 50 pounds of force "lifting" the handle so to speak.

The only thing that will force your door open when the solenoids are actuated will be the compressed weatherstripping - OR - a spring loaded door popper, which doesn't have a "force" rating. It's just a big spring that gets compressed when you close the door. A "door popper" is wholely different from a solenoid; it's only purpose is to push the door open a few inches AFTER the solenoid actuates, disengaging the door from the door frame.

Two things, totally different: A) A door popper and B) the solenoid.





Okay, do we see now? The silver thing buried inside my door here is the solenoid. You can even see the steel wire looped around the end of the solenoid that goes up inside the door to pull the handle mechanism down. The little nubby, black rubber snubber you see on the left side of the picture is the door popper; it simply compresses when the door is closed and pushes the door open when released by the solenoid.

Steve

LowCamaro

thanks for clearin that up for the people who didnt know!
I want my kit!!!

deadbird

Red... I have to agree but, I like seeing peoples sig because I like checking out what others are doing to thier cars (when they have a link or progress pics if they don't have a site).
People that have everything they've done to a car down to the factory options and spark plugs listed in thier sig and add it to every post they make in one particular thread gets annoying to scroll past after awhile.

Not b---hin' but, I'm going with 88 WS6 on this... sig. one time is enough per message thread.

bigpuncp27

I have also thought about shaving my doorhandles, but the only thing that is stopping me is, when you shaved the handles is the indent where you can slide your hand under the old door handle still there, or do they smooth that out and make it flalt?

devianb

I don't mind having a visible door handle - I just don't like the way thirdgen's handles are boxy and stick out. Is it possible to make the handle flatter?

redraif

Well, thats exactly what I attempt to do...Once per thread. I agree with you guys though. Some are too long and others too often. I just figured I would offer it as an option, since I of all people know people will do what they want.

redraif

Yes, when you remove the handles, you then fill the hole where your fingers would normally go into the door recess under the handle. A piece of metal that is a touch smaller then the hole is welded into the recess. From there only a very small amount of filler should be needed to smooth out where the handle and recess once was.

redraif

The pics did not come out where the plate was put in place and the welding was done. Here is after the welding was ground down:

redraif

Here is after some bondo was used to filll in low spots before the final primer was added.

LowCamaro

Nice pics Redraif,Ive pretty much got all the body work done on the doors now.I cut out plates myself to fit in the grooves and then hauled it all to a body shop.They welded them in no problem at all and only charged me $20 canadian to do it.They even ground it all down after i asked them not to do it cuz i could of done it myself.I wheeled it all home and brought out the bondo to finish it off.I used the long strand fiberglass filler,sanded it down,and then used a final spot putty to fill in the pin holes that occur with the long strand stuff.The doors are now primed and ready for paint.Although,i still havent fully installed the solenoids yet.Cya Graham

joezero

$20 to have a body shop do it? Damn, makes me want to start calling body shops around here. I'm just curious tho, if you've shaved the door handles but haven't installed the solenoids, how do you get in?

deadbird

With a little (extra) work, you can graft some flush ones on from a different car.
http://www.deadbird.org/a/l10.jpg