3 Third Gen SLP parts
#2
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,927
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From: Il
Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
I just sent JT SLP 1989 1993-94 catalog scans from my collection.
He should be getting them put up on this site soon.
He should be getting them put up on this site soon.
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Reddragon88gta (01-05-2022)
#3
Joined: Dec 2004
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From: Mile High Country !!!
Car: 1967 Camaro, 91 z28
Engine: Lb9
Transmission: M20
Axle/Gears: J65 pbr on stock posi 10bolt
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
I know the 94 gm performance parts catalog had alot of the packages listed but there all nla parts except the runners.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-1994-Perf...#ht_2907wt_821
http://www.ebay.com/itm/GM-1994-Perf...#ht_2907wt_821
#4
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,927
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From: Il
Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
Guess I could scan my 94 GM catalog but maybe that seems redundant??
#6
#7
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,927
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From: Il
Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
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#8
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,345
Likes: 52
From: Aridzona
Car: `86 SS / `87 SS
Engine: L69 w/ TPI on top / 305 4bbl
Transmission: `95 T56 \ `88 200-4R
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
I remember 1 & 5/8 and 1 & 3/4 headers for dual and single cats.
Header install kits (w/ modded AC bracket)
TB air foil.
They closed out the Firehawk conversion parts (bellhousing and ?)
I really don't know that a single-year catalogue will cover it.
Header install kits (w/ modded AC bracket)
TB air foil.
They closed out the Firehawk conversion parts (bellhousing and ?)
I really don't know that a single-year catalogue will cover it.
#9
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,927
Likes: 932
From: Il
Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
I sent him my SLP/summit 89, 93 and 94 catalogs.. I would like to find out if there is one from every year and when they started and finished the real SLP stuff
#10
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 15,669
Likes: 727
From: Mile High Country !!!
Car: 1967 Camaro, 91 z28
Engine: Lb9
Transmission: M20
Axle/Gears: J65 pbr on stock posi 10bolt
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
Just curious did summit sell the slp performance memcals. Would be interesting to look at the .bin's
#11
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 913
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From: greenfield indiana
Car: 86' IROC-Z....and 5 other 3rdgens
Engine: 383 hsr
Transmission: built 700r4
Axle/Gears: stock 3.23, 10bolt
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
they made cold air kits as well. believe they are discontinued though
#12
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,927
Likes: 932
From: Il
Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
SLP sold the "chips" for their 50 state legal packages and they SUCK.
I had one for my 89car when I got my kit thru summit in 92-3, it ran waaay SLOWER than the stock chip and had a 5,000rpm redline.. I also have one in my 92 bird but haven't had a chance to test it.
I have heard they just used the vet timing and colder fan settings but I'm not 100% sure.
SLP made the best cold air kits bar none.
I had one for my 89car when I got my kit thru summit in 92-3, it ran waaay SLOWER than the stock chip and had a 5,000rpm redline.. I also have one in my 92 bird but haven't had a chance to test it.
I have heard they just used the vet timing and colder fan settings but I'm not 100% sure.
SLP made the best cold air kits bar none.
Last edited by TTOP350; 02-03-2012 at 01:27 PM.
#14
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,927
Likes: 932
From: Il
Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
The Maf is in my 89 SLP catalog.
Along with the correct factory looking bellows and a harness/converter box to adapt the two.
Its a BOSCH meter from a 928 Porsche. I think its 93mm and ours are 77mm ???
Along with the correct factory looking bellows and a harness/converter box to adapt the two.
Its a BOSCH meter from a 928 Porsche. I think its 93mm and ours are 77mm ???
Last edited by TTOP350; 01-30-2012 at 02:57 PM.
#16
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,927
Likes: 932
From: Il
Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
Ok, JT put them up at the top in my post. This is the 89 catalog. sorry I do not have the first or last few pages. I don't know where they went..
Enjoy
Enjoy
#17
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From: Athens, Tn
Car: 87 GTA
Engine: 350
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 3.42 posi
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
Thats really neat thanks alot, did they ever produce the short ram intake and maf? Has anyone heard the catback? because it looks alot like my Banks one.
#18
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,927
Likes: 932
From: Il
Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
Yes, they made it all. I hav 4 of those catbacks and like them a lot. They are very close to your banks kit .
#19
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From: Athens, Tn
Car: 87 GTA
Engine: 350
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 3.42 posi
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
Man you have alot of nice hard to get parts lol, do you have a short ram too? Also, is it better then the T-ram? I'm jus trying to to get one of all the bolt ons slp offered.
#20
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,927
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From: Il
Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
No I dont have the short ram buuuut I do have a copy of it (unfinished)
I have 2 of the 3 roller cams they offered.
One or 2 chips
3-4 sets of Runners 1 old and 2 newer ones
2 Trams
3 sets of headers
3 dual cold air kits and 2 or 3 singles
I reeealy want a big MAF kit for my 89 formula.. It NEEDS it !
2 SLP underdrive pulleys and a ALT pulley
52 Tbodys
A hamburger oil pan offered thru SLP
A torque converter (sold it) and my stock trans has a SLP shift kit
2 sets of 3.73 speedo gears
extra mufflers, tail pipes and things.
I know theres more buuuut
I have 2 of the 3 roller cams they offered.
One or 2 chips
3-4 sets of Runners 1 old and 2 newer ones
2 Trams
3 sets of headers
3 dual cold air kits and 2 or 3 singles
I reeealy want a big MAF kit for my 89 formula.. It NEEDS it !
2 SLP underdrive pulleys and a ALT pulley
52 Tbodys
A hamburger oil pan offered thru SLP
A torque converter (sold it) and my stock trans has a SLP shift kit
2 sets of 3.73 speedo gears
extra mufflers, tail pipes and things.
I know theres more buuuut
Last edited by TTOP350; 07-17-2013 at 10:23 PM.
#21
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From: Athens, Tn
Car: 87 GTA
Engine: 350
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 3.42 posi
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
Damn you have a nice collection, i have the headers, runners, airfoil, and the CAI for maf, but i would like to get the rest but its rare they come up for sale although my banks system is pretty hard to come by also.
#22
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From: Prince George, BC, Canada
Car: 89 GTA
Engine: 5.7L Supercharged
Transmission: T-56
Axle/Gears: Moser 9" 3.70
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
That short ram intake is pretty neat! Kind of the same as a HSR except all welded up. Don't think I ever seen one shown on here yet.
#23
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,927
Likes: 932
From: Il
Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
That short ram was 1st made in 86 maybe 87 ish thru the early 90s??
Wrap your head around that 4 a min and think how much Mustang butt we could have been kicking back then if GM woulda put that on our cars!!
Wrap your head around that 4 a min and think how much Mustang butt we could have been kicking back then if GM woulda put that on our cars!!
#24
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From: Athens, Tn
Car: 87 GTA
Engine: 350
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 3.42 posi
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
Lol, that was before my time but they would still kicking butt now. Has anyone seen one in person asi tried to search for it and no luck?
#26
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,927
Likes: 932
From: Il
Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
Yup, If i remember correctly they started making and testing their parts around 1986ish, weeell before they went to GM and said we have a 50 state legal package we want to sell thru you with your blessing. ??? someone correct me if I'm wrong??
Last edited by TTOP350; 07-17-2013 at 10:24 PM.
#28
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,927
Likes: 932
From: Il
Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
I tried to back then but I was broke most of the time from the good ole party days..
Do you have a pic of your banks muffler?
I know SLP wen thru atleast 4 different designs on their muffler and 3-4 different tips.
Looking at the muffler in the catalog its waay different than anythiing Ive ever seen in person...
It might be what was on my 92 formula orginally.
Do you have a pic of your banks muffler?
I know SLP wen thru atleast 4 different designs on their muffler and 3-4 different tips.
Looking at the muffler in the catalog its waay different than anythiing Ive ever seen in person...
It might be what was on my 92 formula orginally.
#29
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From: Raleigh, NC
Car: 1988 Flame Red Trans am GTA
Engine: Forged 355 4 Bolt, FIRST TPI
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: ls1 torsen 3.42 gear
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
i currently have slp's cold air intake on my car... love the product and stockish look.. i also had their runners before i went to the first intake...
#30
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From: San Fernando valley-Lancaster,CA
Car: '86 TRANS-AM WS6
Engine: 1989 355 TPI L98
Transmission: TH700R-4
Axle/Gears: BorgWarner 9 bolt/ 3.27
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
I say we all sign some sort of petition so slp can re-produce these parts for our third gens they would make so much bank if they did...I actually sent them an email stating the same thing but they said they couldn't do nothing about it, I would like to talk to the main head of the company and have a nice talk about the parts for our cars our gen is the most hated on and performance parts are very few if anyone agrees with me lets make a move and do something about this and get a plan going
#31
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From: Far West
Car: 1986 Camaro Z28 IROC-Z
Engine: 350 Tuned Port Injection, for now.
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: Posi - 3.23
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
I'm with you on the petition. I bought a set of SLP runner for $290!!!!! So my guess is that maby SLP is about done with our agin 3rd gens.
#32
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 9,777
Likes: 587
From: Chicagoland
Car: 1989 IROC-Z. Original owner
Engine: LB9. Dual Cats. Big Cam
Transmission: World Class T-5
Axle/Gears: BW 3.45
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
In 2008, at the Camaro Gathering at Indy, we had a little presentation by David Hamburger from SLP. Someone asked him if we could expect any parts to ever be available for 3rd gens again. He tersely, (almost rudely) replied, "No! We won't ever offer anything for 3rd gens again".
#34
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 2,440
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From: Moorpark, CA
Car: '91 GTA, '92 T/A Convertible
Engine: GTA: 350 w/Vortec heads, T/A: 305
Transmission: Pro-built 700R4
Axle/Gears: GTA: 3.27, T/A: 2.73
#35
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 9,777
Likes: 587
From: Chicagoland
Car: 1989 IROC-Z. Original owner
Engine: LB9. Dual Cats. Big Cam
Transmission: World Class T-5
Axle/Gears: BW 3.45
#38
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From: San Fernando valley-Lancaster,CA
Car: '86 TRANS-AM WS6
Engine: 1989 355 TPI L98
Transmission: TH700R-4
Axle/Gears: BorgWarner 9 bolt/ 3.27
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
It makes me love my thirdgen even more even though they are the most hated gen
#39
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,927
Likes: 932
From: Il
Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
I understand why they wont release parts again but its sad they won't.
Just have a look around on the boards and see how many complain that the part dosen't 100% fit their car and or how much the stuff costs. (look at all the unnecessary bashing of Hawks) If you thought it was pricey then, just imagine what it would all cost to make today. The 50HP smog legal kit would prolly cost more than most of these cars are worth these days.
From what I understand they would have to redo 99% of the product line from the ground up and that alone would cost a buttload.
Its a shame really.
#40
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 9,777
Likes: 587
From: Chicagoland
Car: 1989 IROC-Z. Original owner
Engine: LB9. Dual Cats. Big Cam
Transmission: World Class T-5
Axle/Gears: BW 3.45
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
And almost bankrupted him/them. If it wasn't for "the alledged fire" it may well have.
I understand why they wont release parts again but its sad they won't.
Just have a look around on the boards and see how many complain that the part dosen't 100% fit their car and or how much the stuff costs. (look at all the unnecessary bashing of Hawks) If you thought it was pricey then, just imagine what it would all cost to make today. The 50HP smog legal kit would prolly cost more than most of these cars are worth these days.
From what I understand they would have to redo 99% of the product line from the ground up and that alone would cost a buttload.
Its a shame really.
I understand why they wont release parts again but its sad they won't.
Just have a look around on the boards and see how many complain that the part dosen't 100% fit their car and or how much the stuff costs. (look at all the unnecessary bashing of Hawks) If you thought it was pricey then, just imagine what it would all cost to make today. The 50HP smog legal kit would prolly cost more than most of these cars are worth these days.
From what I understand they would have to redo 99% of the product line from the ground up and that alone would cost a buttload.
Its a shame really.
#41
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,927
Likes: 932
From: Il
Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
I get that it might not be a good business proposition for him, I just didn't like his condecending attitude about it. He could have said, something like: "Although we appreciate the support we have gotten from the 3rd gen community, we have decided to go in a different direction". Instead, he pretty much pee'd all over the 3rd gen community.
I talked to both Ed and Dave at SEMA a few years ago and they were a bit more laid back about the whole thing.
Everyone has a bad day. Maybe it was his day? Maybe I spoke with them on a very good day?? Who knows..
I'm sloowly trying to gather a bunch of parts to reproduce (with some improvements) but who knows how far I'll get.
Last edited by TTOP350; 03-11-2012 at 03:46 PM.
#42
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 9,777
Likes: 587
From: Chicagoland
Car: 1989 IROC-Z. Original owner
Engine: LB9. Dual Cats. Big Cam
Transmission: World Class T-5
Axle/Gears: BW 3.45
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
Oh I agree with you 100%.
I talked to both Ed and Dave at Sema a few years ago and they were a bit more laid back about the whole thing.
Everyone has a bad day. Maybe it was his day? Maybe I spoke with them on a very good day.
I'm sloowly trying to gather a bunch of parts to reproduce( with some improvements) but who knows how far I'll get.
I talked to both Ed and Dave at Sema a few years ago and they were a bit more laid back about the whole thing.
Everyone has a bad day. Maybe it was his day? Maybe I spoke with them on a very good day.
I'm sloowly trying to gather a bunch of parts to reproduce( with some improvements) but who knows how far I'll get.
#43
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From: Far West
Car: 1986 Camaro Z28 IROC-Z
Engine: 350 Tuned Port Injection, for now.
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: Posi - 3.23
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
TTOP350. What do you mean by reproduce the parts? As in build and fabricate the parts yourself? I think that's a cool idea. Maby you can redo the SLP runners and remove the large indenting where the side bolts mount.
#44
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,927
Likes: 932
From: Il
Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
I'd like to redo the 1st design of the SLP runners (no longer made), with some nice improvements and offer a set with a lil different design also.
Cold air kits of course and a few other things. We shall see.
#45
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From: Delaware
Car: 91' Firebird SOLD
Engine: 350 TPI +bolt-ons
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 3:42
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
SLP sold the "chips" for their 50 state legal packages and they SUCK.
I had one for my 89car when I got my kit thru summit in 92-3, it ran waaay SLOWER than the stock chip and had a 5,000rpm redline.. I also have one in my 92 bird but haven't had a chance to test it.
I have heard they just used the vet timing and colder fan settings but I'm not 100% sure.
SLP made the best cold air kits bar none.
I had one for my 89car when I got my kit thru summit in 92-3, it ran waaay SLOWER than the stock chip and had a 5,000rpm redline.. I also have one in my 92 bird but haven't had a chance to test it.
I have heard they just used the vet timing and colder fan settings but I'm not 100% sure.
SLP made the best cold air kits bar none.
#46
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 6,498
Likes: 26
From: Macon, GA
Car: 1992 Camaro RS
Engine: Vortec headed 355, xe262
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt 3.70
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
I love how their air intake kit has a vane inside of it to eliminate turbulence, yet all tehse new snake oil devices have vanes in them to increase turbulence.
#47
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,927
Likes: 932
From: Il
Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
nah, the Vette timing would have been way too aggressive. They probably just raised the timing in certain areas a few degrees or so,but if your car has the timing manually raised already by having advanced the distributor, then sometimes you are more likely to have too much timing advance and you may run slower.
I never have run bumped base timing and a aftermarket chip.
I put the stock 350 chip in, bump timing, do my magic () and my car would pickup and give a quicker ET..
I'd love to find a 2,000 mile black ttop 89 formula 350.. I would llike to do a complete story on it to show the things that do and don't work.
Last edited by TTOP350; 12-06-2017 at 07:57 AM.
#48
Junior Member
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 91
Likes: 0
From: Pensacola
Car: 86 Z/28 IROC-Z
Axle/Gears: 9 Bolt 3.27
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
I tried to back then but I was broke most of the time from the good ole party days..
Do you have a pic of your banks muffler?
I know SLP wen thru atleast 4 different designs on their muffler and 3-4 different tips.
Looking at the muffler in the catalog its waay different than anythiing Ive ever seen in person...
It might be what was on my 92 formula orginally.
Do you have a pic of your banks muffler?
I know SLP wen thru atleast 4 different designs on their muffler and 3-4 different tips.
Looking at the muffler in the catalog its waay different than anythiing Ive ever seen in person...
It might be what was on my 92 formula orginally.
#49
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 11,927
Likes: 932
From: Il
Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
Engine: 4++,350 & 305 CIs
Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
The ones in the 89 catalog look like a factory or walker aluminum coated rolled and crimped edge muffler. Those were some of the very 1st types and used a neat looking oval tips that were die formed right on the tailpipe.
Then SLP went to a hand/machine formed welded muffler that was made from stainless and butt welded around the edge. I have seen 2 different designs of this muffler, oval flat sided muffler and a oval simple peak sided muffler.
All the hand built stainless mufflers I have seen have been center 3" in and center dual 2 1/2 out. The very early (factory looking) stuff had a offset 3" in and dual 2 1/2 offset out.
Then SLP went to a hand/machine formed welded muffler that was made from stainless and butt welded around the edge. I have seen 2 different designs of this muffler, oval flat sided muffler and a oval simple peak sided muffler.
All the hand built stainless mufflers I have seen have been center 3" in and center dual 2 1/2 out. The very early (factory looking) stuff had a offset 3" in and dual 2 1/2 offset out.
Last edited by TTOP350; 03-13-2012 at 09:17 AM.
#50
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 519
Likes: 0
From: delaware
Car: 92 camaro rs
Engine: 3.4v6 sc
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 9 bolt 3.73s
Re: 3 Third Gen SLP parts
A hamburger oil pan offered thru SLP can i get more info on this pleas?? and thats a shame thay wont do any more 3gen stuff the firehwaks and ss camaro realy helped them there even turning there back on the lt1 cars that realy helped them take off so is pe and the g2 guys there forgeting all about the tpi/lt cars like there bad seeds even the ls1 car two now ,i think its a bad play bc lt1 and the 4 gen ls is just growing