421 Dyno....
#53
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Car: '88 Formula, '94 Corvette, '95 Bird
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Re: 421 Dyno....
You don't think the 220s are a bit much for a naturally aspirated street car?
-- Joe
-- Joe
#56
Re: 421 Dyno....
Yeah a good 210 can feed a 400-415 motor to 6000-6500. Comfortable rpm range for a street strip fun build. 421 with more stroke can take another 10cc's for same rpm range.
Depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Big power numbers from high ve motors needs big airflow and you get that with more port area, or less valve angle for more velocity. Standard sbc heads are limited in velocity due to port shape. So have to go bigger. 1989gtatransam runs very well with ported afr's that produce 222cc's and he is only 369 cubes but going to 6800 rpm
Depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Big power numbers from high ve motors needs big airflow and you get that with more port area, or less valve angle for more velocity. Standard sbc heads are limited in velocity due to port shape. So have to go bigger. 1989gtatransam runs very well with ported afr's that produce 222cc's and he is only 369 cubes but going to 6800 rpm
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Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
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Transmission: 700R4 4800 vig 18th700R4 t56 ZF6 T5
Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: 421 Dyno....
I like 210s on 350s, they run great.
Last edited by TTOP350; 02-27-2013 at 06:15 PM.
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Re: 421 Dyno....
Yeah a good 210 can feed a 400-415 motor to 6000-6500. Comfortable rpm range for a street strip fun build. 421 with more stroke can take another 10cc's for same rpm range.
Depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Big power numbers from high ve motors needs big airflow and you get that with more port area, or less valve angle for more velocity. Standard sbc heads are limited in velocity due to port shape. So have to go bigger. 1989gtatransam runs very well with ported afr's that produce 222cc's and he is only 369 cubes but going to 6800 rpm
Depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Big power numbers from high ve motors needs big airflow and you get that with more port area, or less valve angle for more velocity. Standard sbc heads are limited in velocity due to port shape. So have to go bigger. 1989gtatransam runs very well with ported afr's that produce 222cc's and he is only 369 cubes but going to 6800 rpm
#60
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Re: 421 Dyno....
Running 230s on a 383..while its strong at WOT and upper ranges I think they are too big overall. Car would feel snappier everywhere with a smaller head if that helps. Engine doesnt come alive til about 4k
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Re: 421 Dyno....
What is the port size on those? What intake you plan on running?
-- Joe
#64
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Re: 421 Dyno....
I'm curious to see how much the head swap will make a difference. I just finished a similar build. I wonder if our numbers will be similar.
427 SBC
AFR 220 Heads (65cc)
242/248. .576/.600. 112LSA
HSR Intake
10:5:1 Compression
427 SBC
AFR 220 Heads (65cc)
242/248. .576/.600. 112LSA
HSR Intake
10:5:1 Compression
#67
Re: 421 Dyno....
I dont see a reason to be wot under 3000 rpm, so car should never have to worry about low end. 421 cubes makes alot of torque with that long stroke. It doesnt take much power to move an fbody or vette. Stock L98's did a good job of that with not that much torque.
I will be tuning my car all motor this year, bypassing turbos as i break in the new rings. 245cc heads on a 9 to 1 comp 400" motor. 246 deg cam. Previous driving experience was good. Car felt just as alive as the 195cc afr's and baby 233 deg cam. In fact i think it was abit more peppy although it did not load the converter as hard so some torque was lost there, it still was more than enough to make car fun. Also i changed turbo housings which delayed turbo spool so that may be why the combo didnt load converter quite as hard. Either way i dont expect issues. Results should be interesting.
230's are too large for a 383 unless you are doing 7500 rpm+. Naturally it wont be as snappy unless real high compression.
I will be tuning my car all motor this year, bypassing turbos as i break in the new rings. 245cc heads on a 9 to 1 comp 400" motor. 246 deg cam. Previous driving experience was good. Car felt just as alive as the 195cc afr's and baby 233 deg cam. In fact i think it was abit more peppy although it did not load the converter as hard so some torque was lost there, it still was more than enough to make car fun. Also i changed turbo housings which delayed turbo spool so that may be why the combo didnt load converter quite as hard. Either way i dont expect issues. Results should be interesting.
230's are too large for a 383 unless you are doing 7500 rpm+. Naturally it wont be as snappy unless real high compression.
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Re: 421 Dyno....
Any horizontal draw intake is going to have restrictions vs a direct draw singleplane.
-- Joe
#71
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Re: 421 Dyno....
I am running measured 222cc heads on my 369cubic inch motor. I can say the motor is very snappy and takes right off from a stop even with a stock torque converter. No problem lighting off the tires. IMHO he should have no problem with 220cc heads on a 421CI motor. If it were mine I would have went with 235cc heads providing the intake gaskets would seal up.
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Re: 421 Dyno....
11.5:1
260/268@050
294/302
108 las
640 lift
Solid roller
Needs over 700 lift to take advantage of the heads on now just not willing to on a street car not worth the valve guide wear to me. Gentle lobe shouldnt beat up parts
Nothings perfect eh?
260/268@050
294/302
108 las
640 lift
Solid roller
Needs over 700 lift to take advantage of the heads on now just not willing to on a street car not worth the valve guide wear to me. Gentle lobe shouldnt beat up parts
Nothings perfect eh?
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Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
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Re: 421 Dyno....
Shorting the duration up will wake it up down lower in the rpm range.
In allmost every combo I've seen tested, over caming is worse than over heading a motor.
I like huge cubes, heads, cams and rpm tho You prolly have quite the spinner!!
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Car: 67 ******mobile
Engine: 385 Solid roller
Transmission: T-56
Axle/Gears: 4.11
Re: 421 Dyno....
TTOp if youre up for doing a sim I can send you the cam specs that matter.
It has acceptable torque for most driving.
With the gear tire dia and 6 speed its at 3k or more right now just normal driving dont want to blow the tires off it. So by the time I stab it im around 4k +- and the party starts. At 5k it feels like someone rearended you lol.
Plan on running it to 7, 7200 tops at the track.
Its pretty fresh so only ran it up to 6800 so far pulls awfully hard up top.
I wont hijack anymore back to Ricky
It has acceptable torque for most driving.
With the gear tire dia and 6 speed its at 3k or more right now just normal driving dont want to blow the tires off it. So by the time I stab it im around 4k +- and the party starts. At 5k it feels like someone rearended you lol.
Plan on running it to 7, 7200 tops at the track.
Its pretty fresh so only ran it up to 6800 so far pulls awfully hard up top.
I wont hijack anymore back to Ricky
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Car: 1989-92 FORMULA350 305 92 Hawkclone
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Re: 421 Dyno....
88Black Z-51, I'm just wondering, are these numbers thru the Bosch MAF and factory air filter box?
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Re: 421 Dyno....
The tune wasnt bang on, but it was close.....The tq curve was very flat. IIRC 440 rwtq at 2500.
Last edited by 88BlackZ-51; 02-28-2013 at 08:46 AM.
#80
Re: 421 Dyno....
IROCThe5.7l,did you port the HSR for your 427 build and how well does it match up to the afr220 heads?Are the 220's street port or comp port?Should be a strong runner,with a nice power curve...
#81
Re: 421 Dyno....
Would also be interested on how the mini-ram matches up to the afr220's for Ricks 421 as well...would love to build a big cube sbc down the road,but I want to keep the stock hood on my 88T/A...so I'm really interested in these big cube motors with HSR or MR intakes....
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Re: 421 Dyno....
Would also be interested on how the mini-ram matches up to the afr220's for Ricks 421 as well...would love to build a big cube sbc down the road,but I want to keep the stock hood on my 88T/A...so I'm really interested in these big cube motors with HSR or MR intakes....
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Axle/Gears: 3.70 9"ford alum chunk,dana44,9bolt
Re: 421 Dyno....
I had to put a lil thicker intake gasket on my build to get the intake ports to line up just right..
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Re: 421 Dyno....
Oh wow that is big news, though I can't blame you for doing it. The LS platform is super tempting and going with a Z06 is hard to beat! Good luck with the new project
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Re: 421 Dyno....
Almost made me wanna smack myself for ditching the 195s and buying the 210s.
-- Joe
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Re: 421 Dyno....
-- Joe
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Re: 421 Dyno....
230's are too large for a 383 unless you are doing 7500 rpm+. Naturally it wont be as snappy unless real high compression.
Main useage is for WOT/strip
car has plenty of gear goes through it quick so low end tq was never a concern
Focus is on 1/4 mi time more than street use. I dont lug it or worry about mpg lol
Sure an AFR 210/220 would pick things up overall. 210 comp probably perfect size but dont want to blow the tires off it, want it pulling hard past 7k or to it at least
See how money looks in the next 6 mos. Cost plus another set of shaft rockers adds up.
Nobody seems to want to buy these Darts and getting stupid offers on the Jesels as they wont fit the AFRs. so...
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Re: 421 Dyno....
Do you have any more detailed info on this? Those are very interesting results indeed.
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