874ME

iTrader: (1)

Well the car is back on the ground, hood is on and has about 25 miles on the new settup. First impressions are that it lost alot of power on the bottom end. It doesnt snap my head back at 3500rpm now. It does pull alot harder above 5K and it hit 6200 quickly the one time I had the room to do it ( 2nd gear).
I set the base timing at 4 degrees, wanted to drive it and make sure it didnt knock. It does have a "custom Ed Wright tune" for the last settup.

Maybe it needs more initial timing?

I figure that I need to put a couple hundred miles on it before driving for the computer to learn what it can.

It may have an intake leak at the base of the injectors. I sprayed starting fluid around the intake and got a slight rise in rpm,s while spraying the #5/7 injectors. It wasnt consistant though.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

GIve it time to wake up alittle. Its gonna require a new tune to get the most out of it. I'd be ginger with it until i was sure the tune was close. Your going to want to give it timing back and then dial in the air fuel. It should really open up after all that.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

What size stall converter are you running....?

874ME

iTrader: (1)

Orr, I have been more "gingerer" than normal with the car than normal Any suggestions for base timing once the computer has finished learning and adjusting? Should I put more initial timing now?

It has had a couple of WOT pulls from 3500 - 6200 in second gear. I have had my scanner connected for every mile, the cross counts look good and it hasnt pulled any timing via the knock sensor yet.

I hope a good tune will help, top end seems strong but it feels like it lost alot on the bottom end.

Street Legal, the convertor stalls at about 2800. It isnt a name brand unit, built by some guy north of Seattle is what the tranny shop that rebuilt the transmission told me.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

The computer may have some adjustment/learn ability in closed loop with fueling but not so sure about timing.

Its hard to tune without a wideband o2 telling your air fuel ratio and a scanner for knock counts/timing retard.

As long as you have the scanner for timing retard, then yes I"d give it timing. When you did the wot pulls, does your scanner have o2 sensor milivolts reading? I have heard 890-930 mv is pretty good for a rough guess at optimal air fuel. Being abit richer is safer at this point.
I'd give that motor 6-8 deg base timing for now without knowing what your current timing table looks like. If it was me, I'd set up the tune with max timing all in by 3000 rpm or so. 34 deg as a start for AFR heads. My 383 made best power there.

Your part throttle stuff i'd also start at about 34 degrees and go from there. My 383 used 35 degree for majority of part throttle and seemed to like it. My turbo car is the same way, 32-34 degrees. Some guys run as high as like 40-42 but AFR heads dont need alot of timing.

Throw in some timing and see what the scanner says. 4-6 degrees more base timing than your current 4 should help bring that low end out. But with those heads and larger cam, its gonna shift the power band alittle higher anyway so expect to have a softer bottom end feel. It should still rip at 3000-4500 rpm tho

874ME

iTrader: (1)

Thanks man, I'll bump initial to 8 degrees tomorrow. The scanner is showing 35 degrees at mid / WOT. What do you think total advance should be for this settup?

It does show 02 Mv's, it's difficult to watch while matting the throttle though. Guess I need to learn how to use the " capture" function.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Its showing 35 now with 4 deg base?? 8 degrees base will make that 39 which will be too much.

You can try setting the timing to 8 base and drive around to see if that makes the lower end feel better, but i wouldnt go WOT at over 4000 rpm. I think your combo should start in the 32 range and work your way up. I honestly dont see you making much more power over 34-35 deg. I"ve run from 39 to 34 on my 383 and it didnt run any better with higher timing. Not all combos are the same I just think it wont need much timing.

874ME

iTrader: (1)

I know there is no way the computer knows what the initial timing is set at, but does it add the stock 6 degree setting to what it shows on the scanner?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

The initial base timing is set on the motor and also in the ecm. They are suppose to match. The base timing is added into the main spark table. So the table will show base timing + timing advance.
What you see on the scanner already has base added into it.

If you turn the base up to 8 degrees, and the computer still has 6 in the chip, it will think its commanding one thing but actually see 2 deg higher. Basically advanced 2 degrees. Adjusting the base timing changes the entire spark table everywhere.

874ME

iTrader: (1)

I had Ed Wright burn a chip for the last setup, not sure what they figured the base timing to be set at. Sounds like I need to hook up a dial back timing light and see exactly what the advance is. What I do know is what the scanner is showing. With this in mind, the computer has no idea what the base is set at. Base timing will affect the total timing.

874ME

iTrader: (1)

I drove it again today without changing intial timing and paid attention to total advance at WOT. At part throttle the scanner is showing 35 - 39, at WOT it is steady at 31.5 - 32. So if I understand this correctly, the ECM is assuming 6 degrees is base ( stock setting per the yellow tag on the radiator support), but I have it set at 4 degrees advance. So the total advance at WOT is 29.5 - 30.5? I need to bump it up to +/- 9 degrees initial advance.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

No it is in fact 31-32 deg at WOT. The scanner should be seeing what the motor is seeing, not what the ecm commands. The ecm is trying to command 34 apparently but your base timing doesnt match the ecm's value of 6. You are 2 deg short so thus the motor only sees 32 deg.

I'd bump it back up to 6 deg base, maybe even 8

874ME

iTrader: (1)

Bumped it up to 8 yesterday. It helped idle quality a little bit and mid range is better. I put about 25 miles on it, didnt knock once.
Discovered that the 6AL box had a 6200rpm chip in it, pulled the chip then went for a spin again. It pulls really well to about 6400.
My brother brought his GTO over and we made a couple of runs for reference. We were even until he went to drive ( about 5800 rpm in 2nd in my car) he pulled a car and half before my car went into drive then we let off. Since the last time we ran the cars my brother has had his car tuned, installed a reprommed ECM for his transmission, headers and cat's, and a Vavaram CAI.

Need to get it tuned than take it to the track.

Thanks for your advise Orr.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Proper tune will help that car come alive. Just make sure you dont have any more issues with intake leaks and etc...

what year GTO? I would have thought your car would pull on one of those

874ME

iTrader: (1)

05 auto with autocross tires. I would have thought the same, especially after the head and cam swap. His car is no slouch for the boltons he has. The best mod he has done is the custom tune after the stainless works long tube headers.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

They are fairly heavy cars. Even with his bolt ons, you should beable to match him for power just about and since you should be lighter, you should beable to pull on him.

874ME

iTrader: (1)

When his car only had a cat back and CAI and before the H/C on my car I pulled a car on him midway through drive. I didnt expect to pull him on the topend, and was suprised that I didnt pull in the lower RPM's.

Since then he has added headers, different CAI, custom tune and reprogrammed TCU. The tune did the most for his car, GTO's tend to pull a ton of timing out when they sense heatsoak. The knock sensors are really sensitive also.

This time around I probably revved it to far. My car pulled slightly after getting traction in 2nd gear untill about 5800, then he shifted to drive, I kept it in 2nd until 6500. That was when he got the 1 1/2 cars. My brother said he shifted into drive at 6000, I saw 5800 on my stock tach. The gearing is almost the same, GTO 3:46, my car 3:42.


Need to get it dyno tuned then take it to the track. It does feel faster than before, not sure what the ET will be but the MPH should 110+.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Thats going to be the big thing, get it on a dyno to see what the power band looks like then dial in the shift point. That combo better go well over 110 mph or i'd be concerned...

BadSS

I have a 2009 G8 GT,, I dropped about 3/4 seconds with a self tune on the engine and transmission (tranmission tune made a HUGE improvement), VaraRam CAI, and a Vizard inspired terminator box replacing the stock single (dual in/out) muffler and twin resonators. I kept the stock rear mufflers,, so it still only has a slight rumble to it. Headers,, especially the long tube versions with repositioned cats make a big difference on the GTO and G8s. Based on my ET improvement,, I'd bet your brother picked up at least a second,, probably closer to 1.25-seconds. So,, it sounds like you picked up a good bit.

I'm sure you'll be every happy once you get the tune dialed in and after taking it to the track.

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

Im excitied to see this thing in auction...u need to take some vids!

874ME

iTrader: (1)

I am on the same page with you. My brother's GTO has long tube Kooks Singature Series headers and mid pipes ( cats), Vararam CAI, Spintech cat back, Pedders rear spring / drag bags, reprogramed transmission TCM, sticky autocross tires and a custom tune from a guy back east.

I wouldnt be suprised to see his car run a 12.5 at 110+.
But...my car feels like it's running well. I thought it would have pulled him at higher speeds.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Just get it on a dyno and/or the track and play with the fuel/timing. it may want more up top now and you could easily gain some power

70Monte355

CHeck Classifieds. Hubby is looking to barter his SLP TRAM 1992 Firebird for fencing. All offers considered tho.

874ME

iTrader: (1)

I took the car to SIR ( PRW) last summer and came away dissapointed again. The first pass was 13.3? @ 107.? This was with sitting in the staging lanes for 1.5 hours in almost 100* temps on the asphalt. SIR sucks now, lets all other classes cut into line and inermingles classes. The car never had a chance to cool down, and the HUGE heat sink known as the T-Ram raised inelt air temps to 135* while making the pass. 8 hours later I made the 2nd pass. Same crap sitting in line for an hour, this time I got a CEL after going into 2nd gear.

The car picked up almost 4MPH but slowed down in ET. Wish I had more oppertunities but to prove it out but it was was it was. Since then I have raised the FP to 80 PSI and damaged realized the computer cannot adapt. I think one of the injectors is damaged also. It stutters at mid throttle now but still pulls well above 5K to almost 7K. I am looking at LS3 injectors and a after market computer now.

This thing should be running low 12's at 110 + consistantly. To make matters worse, my brother is now running high to mid 11's with his L3 headed, monster cammed GTO. He is actually feeling sorry for my car now, and I find that pathetic.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Should be a bit quicker. The heat dont help at all but theres more in that setup unless the T-ram is a real restriction. May still need tuning

BadSS

Man,, if your IAT was 135* in the lanes and the outside temp was 100,, you probably was taking in at best an average of 117.5* air in that run. I'm also assuming that with the 4mph increase and ET slowing down more on the 2nd pass you were running street tires. A 13.3X @ 107.X under those conditions without any changes what so ever is an easy 12.3@113mph with 50* air and slicks (assuming no wheel spin). Plus,, you haven't had time to dial in the base timing and fuel pressure,,, nor have you determined the shift points. What you think might be "best",, the timers might tell you different - especially with shift points.

I've been tuning engines and racing for many years and even though I consider myself very good at it,, I've dropped .3 or more off best guess of base timing and fuel pressure - which might take 3 or 4 passes. Then,,, I've dropped .15 on some cars by just changing shift RPMs until I hit the right combination,, which usually takes another minimum of 4 passes. Engines with more power under the curve than a short runner intake might want to shift at a lower RPM than what "feels" right and it might take a few more passes to dial that in.

One of my most memorable track experiences was back around 1988,,, when I drove 180 miles to a track to get away from the locals to dial in my car. I get there and find one of the biggest street rats there. I saw him run a 12.4, my first pass was a 12.3,, he came back and ran a 12.22,, I ran a 12.18 (changed the launch), he ran a 12.08, I ran a 12.01 (bumped timing 2*), he ran a 11.97, I ran a 11.89 (changed carb jets), he ran a 11.98, I ran a 11.82 ,,, he ran a 12.0,, then put it on the trailer and watch me run a 11.86,, then a 11.79 (the last three ETs were shift point changes). It was hilarious,, and even funnier when I found out he had told everyone I kept "pilling up" on the nitrous to best his time - lol.

Anyway, I have full confidence that based on what you ran in those conditions,,, you'll have little problem putting down right at your 375rwhp goal and running in the 12-teen range. Just as a point of reference, I put down 331rwhp and ran 12.3s right at 110mph in 48* temps. If I were to calculate/simulate that 12.3 run with 117* air temp,, it would run 13.2s@105. That’s with a decent tune, no traction problems (slicks with more stall speed) and nuts on shift points. With street tires and your stall speed, I doubt it would have ran a 13.6. So your 13.3x at 107.x,, all things considered is a lot better ET than you think it is.

Also, you don't need to spend money on another fueling system. The stock ECM can handle the tuning required with custom programming. If you haven't bought the injectors yet,, something in the 28-30# range should give you enough margin to keep from having to run excessive pressure.

874ME

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the advise / encouragement. Still havent picked up the injectors yet, donated the cash to taking the kids to Disneyland. Should have the injectors in a month or two. Here is a video of it on a cold start, skip the first 30 seconds or so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvi3nG40MYo

BadSS

I watched and listened to the video. I know you said it was just how the T-Ram sounds, but I swear it sounds like there is a big vacuum leak,, this time on the driver’s side up towards the throttle body – last time it sounded like there was one on the passenger side.

There was a comment about rotten eggs, which might mean you have a converter going bad. A quick whiff every now and again might be normal, but if you smell it a lot,,, or it is a constant smell, I’d put a test pipe in place to check to see if it was going bad – probably not if it’s spinning up to 7-grand – lol.

It appears that the car is fighting with the computer at idle. I suspect the idle speed in the chip is lower than what you set with the idle speed screw. Changing that parameter will probably help a little, but I would hope that the last chip had a little higher than stock idle speed,, so that’s probably not the only or main reason for the “fighting”. I mean no disrespect, but are you disconnecting the timing clip when setting base timing? They will act much like yours is acting if not. If so, did you go back through the minimal idle procedures with the IAC and TPS? At times,,, it’s taken me three or four cycles of the minimal idle procedures before I end up with just the right combination of base timing, idle speed adjustment, and TPS adjustment to smooth things out. When you get that as close to right as possible (even without a nuts on chip) I would suspect the car to idle much smoother without as much of the “hunting for idle” that you’re getting now.

Another observation was when you cracked the throttle a bit,, it seemed to respond very lazily. This thing should have much,, much better response than what it appears to have. With the scan info you gave,, I don’t think it’s all tune related. There might be a little left behind in the tune,, but by the way it responded,,, I suspect there’s more going on here than just the tune being off. If it were mine,,, I’d have to put a test pipe in place of the converter – if nothing else to rule it out. I know you want to put dual converters on anyway,,, right?? lol

Also,, it sounded like you have some metal on metal action happening somewhere. From what I could tell on video,, it sounds a lot like a pulley rubbing (alternator, water pump, power steering, crank)?? If not,,, that sound might be an issue,,, depending on whether it as simple as something like a pulley rubbing or not.

Your oil pressure gauge was fluctuating a bit as well – has that just started? Could be the wire going to the sending unit,,, the sending unit,, low oil,, pick-up not set right to the pan (moved),, the oil pump,, or worst case scenario could be a bearing. It’s more than likely something simple though – start with double checking your oil level!!!

I think you’re sitting on top of a really nice combination that has a few issues to be resolved. Once you get everything squared away, I’d expect the car to be every bit as quick or quicker than you originally anticipated.

874ME

iTrader: (1)

Every time I open the hood when it's running I think the same thing, huge vacuum leak. Thought the same thing when I first installed it 12 years ago. But several cans of starting fluid later prove me wrong. The only reason I can come up with for the strange sound is resonance from airflow through the upper plenum. If you put your hand ontop of the plenum the sound goes away. It's weird. At one point I thought maybe the casting was really pourus, starting fluid should have raised the RPMs but didnt.

The girls commented about the exhaust becuase it's nasty until it warms up. It smells like there is no cat and running poorly. I wouldnt doubt that the cat is toast, chased that problem for several months. Long story and can be found with a search on this site. Before the bad MAF and with the old cam and heads it would sit and idle in my garage without setting of the CO detector. Now it goes off seconds after starting.

The odd part is that it will not run period on the fisrt couple of attempts at idling when cold. When warm it will idle, even in gear. The chip was burned with deleting the 9th injector in mind and worked well with the last cam. I honestly dont remember reseting the base idle speed after the H/C swap. I will give that a shot.

No disrespect taken and yes, the tan / white wire gets unplugged when setting the timing.

Great observation, snapping the throttle gives a lazy responce. Same thing with part throttle inputs while driving. The last settup would rev really quick with a jab at the throttle in park and would snap your head back in gear. This settup is lethargic until it hit 5K, then pulls hard.

Actually, I would like to put long tubes on it with a true dual without cats. The nasty exhaust smell (smells musty with gas mixed in to the equation) is not something I look forward to though.

Not sure about the metal on metal sound. The injectors are really loud, always have been. Might be the same issue as the vacuum leak sound. The video I posted after swapping the H/C had a nasty clanking sond from the cat hitting the subframe connectors, but after an adjustment with a 3' pipe wrench and BFH it only hits while in reverse and after the car is hot, in gear and trying to idle at 750 RPM. Still need to fix that.

874ME

iTrader: (1)

Badd.

The oil pressure guage has done that for the last 15 years. I have replaced the sending unit and cleaned the wires / plug. IIRC, after dropping the 350 in 12 years ago the guage was steady for a couple of weeks. Havent worried about since. If it grenades a stroker will be going back in. Oil level is good.

Man, I hope so. I havent had much time the last couple of years to work on it. Funny how life changes priority's.

Thanks for the suggestions.

BadSS

Yep,, if you didn't do a new minimal idle adjustment,,, then that's whats causing a large majority of your start up problems. Double check the scans for the TPS and MAF readings while crakcing the throttle also. Something is not right - that thing should rev extremely quick,, motorcycle like,, out of gear.

At 8:40,, right after you pop the hood I can hear some metal on metal ringing or friction somewhere. It is really strong at 9:30 on the video right after you let off the gas. I'd have to trace down if it were mine - sounds just like a buddy's car that had a water pump pulley rubbing on the inside at the water pump. Could be the alternator - might want to put some thick gloves on and unplug the alternator to see if that's the noise.

Anyway,, good luck,, and trust me,, I know all about those shifts in priorities. I've had all the parts to complete my engine and car for about 5 years now. And,,,, 5 years ago,,, I would have sworn the car would be running in 2-3 months.

874ME

iTrader: (1)

Now that you mention it I can here it also. A sharp pinging sound. While filming the vid it sounded like the passengers side header to head gasket is leaking. This happens on my car. The header bolts are a PITA to tighten with the AC box in the way. I will tighten them up again and see if the metalic sound is still there.

JekyllandHyde

iTrader: (3)

Hey Dave, how's it going? I talked to you awhile back about the SLP T-RAM and you helped me out a lot with getting the instructions scanned for me. Thanks again for that. I was able to get mine up and running and am now in the middle of a heads and cam swap on it. The car looks and sounds absolutely bad***. Don't be discouraged by the low numbers. We're treading into pretty much unknown territory with this intake since so few people have actually had the experience of tuning it.

I will also vouch for the vacuum leak sound. My T-RAM makes the exact same sound that his car is making at idle.

Also, I'm curious, which injectors did you go with? I ended up going with Ford SVO Lightning 39lb injectors which I think are WAY too big but I'm confident I can tune them down to what I need. I also run into a problem with my AFPR having a minimum adjustment of only 50psi. I think it's because I have a 180* fitting on the return line as per the T-RAM instruction manual says.

874ME

iTrader: (1)

Good to hear from you again and your welcome. I am currently running the used set of refurbished, flow matched 24lb Bosche injectors I picked up from TPIS about 12 years ago. I purchased two other sets of injectors but had little luck getting them to seal. One set of stock LS1 and one set of SVO red top 30lbers. Both sets are shorter than the stock Bosche. I dont want to mill the upper plenum so I am looking at LS3 injectors.
Before the 305 was swapped out I put a 255gph Walbro pump in my car. Then the T-Ram and ZZ4 went in. I have no problem cranking the FP up to 80PSI and it holds while driving. Actually left it there for awhile and now one of the injectors is alot louder then the rest and the car doesnt run as well at mid throttle. I think it was damaged by doing this. I dont think a 90 on the return side is your problem.

Good to hear from you. Post up a video of your ride, would love to see it.

JekyllandHyde

iTrader: (3)

The injector height problem you have is interesting Dave. I found that on my T-RAM, the Bosch Design III and Ford SVO injectors fit with no problems and are the perfect height. Before the heads and cam swap, I was running these injectors WITHOUT the silver adapters you see on the bottoms and they gave me the perfect installed height and I only needed to use one gasket.

http://www.southbayfuelinjectors.com...esign_lll.html

The Ford Lightning injectors are the same height and I got them for "a really good deal" so I'll be going with those. We're hopefully going to be finishing up my car this weekend and I will post up some vids of the start-up.

Also, I wanted to comment a little bit on your tune... it looks like the car does not run smooth at all until it warms up and then it smoothens out. That's more than likely the tune you have, because my car was doing the same thing before I burned my own chips. In open loop, the ECM disregards the O2 sensor readings and goes off of whatever is hard wired into the ECM when it supplies fuel, so that's why it runs like that until it warms up and goes into closed loop. Did you get the tune before or after the cam swap? I would suggest that if the tune was done afterthe cam swap, the bigger camshaft is now throwing off your ECM.

The same thing would also happen at WOT. I'm not sure about the 165 ECM in your car, but with the 730 ECM in my car, when I go into Power Enrichment or WOT, the ECM disregards input from the O2 sensor and goes strictly off the fuel tables with no correction. The only difference is that PE adds more fuel and spark on top of the base tables. So you can see, if the base programming is off, it can seriously affect performance at Open Loop which is where the car goes when you go WOT.

Oh, here's some pics of my ride:

http://www.nythirdgen.com/MembersRid...llandHyde.html

874ME

iTrader: (1)

Your intake must have been milled. Check out this picture.

http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/m...3DDSC_0454.jpg

The injector on the left is a stock Bosche TPI, the middle injector is a 1999 LS1 and the far right is a SVO red top.

IIRC there is 5/16" delta from shortest to longest.

I was going to ask how you got the transmision to work properly without the kick down bracket, but your sig answered the question.

JekyllandHyde

iTrader: (3)

It's possible it was milled. The person I bought it from said it was the last NOS T-RAM that Summit had for sale. It even has "Display" marked on the back of the plneum but it's fully functional. Guess I'll find out this weekend if these injectors will fit or not.

874ME

iTrader: (1)

I dont doubt it was the last NOS manifold, but it sounds to me like it was milled at some point in time. The install kit that came with mine mentioned doubling up the lower intake to plenum gaskets if using a certain injector. It did not mention how to make the manifold work with shorter injectors.

BTW, your car looks nice and clean. Is that a stock color?

JekyllandHyde

iTrader: (3)

Thanks. Yes it's a stock color, Gunmetal Grey Metallic. To date the car has about 62k on it.

874ME

iTrader: (1)

So after many searches on the site I found Badd SS's advice on setting the IAC / timing / TPS. Badd's description of how to set this should be in the Tech articles not the one the currently resides.

My car now idles at about 900rpm hot in park and 750rpm in gear. Not sure what will happen at cold start, but will post it. Throttle response is still lackluster until the rpm's are above 3500.

874ME

iTrader: (1)

I started it this morning and was suprised. It fired up after a maybe 1/4 revolution. Seriously, as soon as the starter engaged it was running. I shut it off after running for 20 seconds and let it sit for a couple of hours.

Then I grabbed the video camera and shot this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClXG5_RqxrE

I just loaded it onto youtube so it will take an hour or so it may be able to be viewed yet.

Of course it stumbled and died on the 1st attempt after mentioning how great it idled I havent cleared the codes yet or let it sit and isle until closed loop so Im hoping that was an anomally.

Thanks Badd SS.

874ME

iTrader: (1)

I found this video of an original firehawk. It is actually the car I talked my wife into letting me try and buy. But my son popped my car out of gear the next day and the rest is history.

Anyhow, if you listen closely you can hear the same whistling / vacum leak sound as my car. To bad the owner didnt get film closer to the engine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIUgA3cedWY

TTOP350

iTrader: (8)

Sometimes a whistle at idel is air going across the throttle blades in a funky way.
I have several BBK 58mm TBs that do it. Its waaaay more common in the mustang world buut it does happen to TPIs also.

BadSS

No problem - glad to help. Yes,, you need to clear the computer. I don’t know if I included this in the post you found, but after clearing the computer head immediately to somewhere you can do a couple WOT bursts in second gear without getting busted (or go there,,, then clear the computer). It’ll settle in even more after that.

874ME

iTrader: (1)

I forgot to mention my scanner is a POS. It "could not comunicate with vehicle" after the last time I adjusted the throttle set screw. It was able to connect with the ECM today after putting 20 miles on the car. The TPS is at .56V and idles a little to high. It did feel like it ran better but it is still lazy in the midrange. It has been raining off and on all day so only got a couple of opurtunities to hammer on it.

I'll go back through the procedure this week.

JekyllandHyde

iTrader: (3)

I got mine started last Sunday and ran into some minor problems with the valvetrain that we'll be correcting. My motor is a stock L98 bottom end with Trickflow 195cc heads with CNC combustion chambers and the TPIS ZZ409 camshaft. The lower manifold had more aluminum welded to the corner of the ports and then port matched to felpro 1205 gaskets to match my heads. So far, it looks like tuning this thing is going to be fun. But I did a rough tune with Ford Lightning 39lb injectors and the car started right up and seems somewhat smooth so I'll need to tweak idle and part throttle more before I can even think of driving this thing.

Dave, I'm starting to think my T-RAM was not milled. I actually have two of them. One was in rough shape because the previous owner started a polish job on it but never finished, and the other was the NOS one that I picked up from Ohio. I had the first T-RAM's base manifold modified to have larger ports and had the runners ported out but I used the plenum and side tanks from the second T-RAM. The Ford injectors fit perfectly in place with no problems sealing... so unless I got lucky and have two T-RAMs that are milled for injectors, the new Bosch 3 body injectors should fit with no problems. The only thing I needed to do to the injectors was grind down a little bit of the plastic trim to get them to fit into the lower injector bosses, but they clicked right in.

874ME

iTrader: (1)

Interesting. Can you measure the lenghts of the injectors you have? I know for a fact SVO red top 30lbrs and stock LS1 injectors are shorter and assumed that this was the reason I couldnt get them to seal. When the SVO injectors were installed I actually grabbed one and pushed it back up into the seat of the upper plenum cast in fuel rail. Then I had a vacumn leak at the lower injector boss. The I wondered what the spray pattern would have looked like with the injector riding up.

The only way to prove this out is to measure from the lower injector boss seat to the upper boss seat with the upper plenum bolted to the lower with the gasket installed.

Do you replace the plenum to runner gaskets every time you pull the upper plenum?

JekyllandHyde

iTrader: (3)

The next time I see my car, I will take the measurement for you. I have my car about 30 minutes away from where i live. I dont always replace the gaskets if they are in good shape but for this time, I replaced the lower manifold to upper plenum gaskets. We got the injectors to seat by inserting them all the way up on the upper plenum first then banging them down into the lower injector bosses. I get no vacuum leak from there but them again the ford injectors have two grooves for o-rings on the bottom so I use the extra thick delphi bluer o-rings on the tops and bottoms and the standard bosch black fuwl injector O-ring in the second bottom groove. Ill post a pic when I get home.

874ME

iTrader: (1)

Thank you.

What are you using for gaskets?

I had a couple of of SLP gaskets but had to make them out of sheet gaskets last time the upper plenum was off. When I first put it together I put Chapstick on the gaskets. This works well for carb gaskets and seemed to work with these as well.

Have you had any issues with the side tank threads stripping? Mine started to disform so I heli coiled them.

JekyllandHyde

iTrader: (3)

I make my own gaskets out of Mr Gasket gasket sheet. Not sure of the thickness But the part number is 77B. I stencil an original set of SLP gaskets that I have.

Here's a pic of the Ford Lightning injector I'm using. Note the 2 O-rings on the bottom and the part I ground away to clear the injector boss:



Here's the motor almost back together. You can see the injectors on the lower manifold: