upgrade to HSR?
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Car: 1989 Firebird Formula
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upgrade to HSR?
Hi Guys,
I need to replace my TPIS Bigmouth intake (long story). I'm considering either buying an Edelbrock TPI intake or upgrading to a Stealth Ram. I spoke with a guy about the HSR and he claims there is no torque loss down low and it is just a great intake all around.
However, according to many searches here and stealthram.com, there is a fair loss of both HP and TQ down low & in the mid-range.
My car is a weekend, non-raced car (see sig) and I normally drive under 80MPH & under 4000rpm. I love the torque and quick response of my setup and hate to lose it... but the large HP numbers of the HSR are very tempting!
So my question to you all is, would you recommend I stay with a TPI setup or upgrade to the HSR?
If I went with HSR, would a higher rear-gear ratio bring the powerband down where I like to drive?
Any info would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
I need to replace my TPIS Bigmouth intake (long story). I'm considering either buying an Edelbrock TPI intake or upgrading to a Stealth Ram. I spoke with a guy about the HSR and he claims there is no torque loss down low and it is just a great intake all around.
However, according to many searches here and stealthram.com, there is a fair loss of both HP and TQ down low & in the mid-range.
My car is a weekend, non-raced car (see sig) and I normally drive under 80MPH & under 4000rpm. I love the torque and quick response of my setup and hate to lose it... but the large HP numbers of the HSR are very tempting!
So my question to you all is, would you recommend I stay with a TPI setup or upgrade to the HSR?
If I went with HSR, would a higher rear-gear ratio bring the powerband down where I like to drive?
Any info would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
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Car: 92 rs
Engine: 355 stealth ram, dart heads, S480
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
man i love my stealth ram....i was running a tbi setup then switched over to it...if i mat it from a dead stop it just melts the tires...from a 20 mph roll...i can get some smoke....i didnt see a big loss of torque...look at my sig for my combo...its not to far off from yours
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Car: 1988 Pontiac Firebird
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
i swiched from TPI to HSR and i havn't noticed ant TQ or HP
best regards
best regards
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Car: 86 Trans Am, 88 Formula
Engine: 95LT4, 305TPI
Transmission: T56, T5
Re: upgrade to HSR?
on my little 305 i noticed that the torque moved up in the rpm band.
I think I put down decent numbers for a stock 305 with headers and an hsr with 165k miles on the motor.
195/273 at the wheels.
I think I put down decent numbers for a stock 305 with headers and an hsr with 165k miles on the motor.
195/273 at the wheels.
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Car: 1989 Firebird Formula
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
Thanks for the replies!
It sounds like the torque loss in the bottom end is fairly unnoticeable (on a L98). I've been reading more posts and it sounds like a lot of people have had issues with the throttle bracket not fitting, throttle body not fitting, throttle cable too short, etc. Are these issues pretty common? I'm also concerned about running new fuel lines... I'm not a great "fab" guy, so I'm wondering if this swap may be out of my league?
It sounds like the torque loss in the bottom end is fairly unnoticeable (on a L98). I've been reading more posts and it sounds like a lot of people have had issues with the throttle bracket not fitting, throttle body not fitting, throttle cable too short, etc. Are these issues pretty common? I'm also concerned about running new fuel lines... I'm not a great "fab" guy, so I'm wondering if this swap may be out of my league?
Last edited by formula_novice; 06-29-2009 at 07:38 AM.
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
i had no problem with that bracket - used stock from TPI, but i use holley avenger TB so no clue about stock TB
best regards
best regards
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
Thanks WASyL!
Did you have any issues with the throttle/cruise cables?
Did you have any issues with the throttle/cruise cables?
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
not at all, it was all p&p
best regards
best regards
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Car: 91 Z28, 2000 T/A
Engine: SBC 355, LS1
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Axle/Gears: 10bolt 3.73, 3.42
Re: upgrade to HSR?
Thanks for the replies!
It sounds like the torque loss in the bottom end is fairly unnoticeable (on a L98). I've been reading more posts and it sounds like a lot of people have had issues with the throttle bracket not fitting, throttle body not fitting, throttle cable too short, etc. Are these issues pretty common? I'm also concerned about running new fuel lines... I'm not a great "fab" guy, so I'm wondering if this swap may be out of my league?
It sounds like the torque loss in the bottom end is fairly unnoticeable (on a L98). I've been reading more posts and it sounds like a lot of people have had issues with the throttle bracket not fitting, throttle body not fitting, throttle cable too short, etc. Are these issues pretty common? I'm also concerned about running new fuel lines... I'm not a great "fab" guy, so I'm wondering if this swap may be out of my league?
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Car: 86 Trans Am, 88 Formula
Engine: 95LT4, 305TPI
Transmission: T56, T5
Re: upgrade to HSR?
I see that you have the same hood I have so you won't have clearance issues with the tb.
I can't remember if I had the hsr on when I was still an auto but I didn't have any issues with the throttle cable.
For the braided fuel lines, you could go to a hydraulic shop and see if they carry the lines and fittings, if they do they can assemble them for you. Hampton Rubber in my area carry the lines and fittings and can assemble them for a small fee.
I made my own lines but I had them convert part of my stock tpi hard line to AN since I couldn't locate the 5/16 adaptor.
I'll post a pic or two when I get upstairs, currently in the garage typing on my little dell mini 9.
I can't remember if I had the hsr on when I was still an auto but I didn't have any issues with the throttle cable.
For the braided fuel lines, you could go to a hydraulic shop and see if they carry the lines and fittings, if they do they can assemble them for you. Hampton Rubber in my area carry the lines and fittings and can assemble them for a small fee.
I made my own lines but I had them convert part of my stock tpi hard line to AN since I couldn't locate the 5/16 adaptor.
I'll post a pic or two when I get upstairs, currently in the garage typing on my little dell mini 9.
Last edited by Zepher; 06-29-2009 at 02:03 PM.
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Car: 1989 Firebird Formula
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
Thanks a million for the info & pics!!!
Will standard sbc intake bolts work on this intake? Or does it require a holley intake kit? I'm using regular (non-centerbolt) heads.
Thanks again!
Will standard sbc intake bolts work on this intake? Or does it require a holley intake kit? I'm using regular (non-centerbolt) heads.
Thanks again!
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Car: 86 Trans Am, 88 Formula
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Transmission: T56, T5
Re: upgrade to HSR?
Standard bolts should work fine and the HSR (at least mine) is angled for your style head. there are washers available for the centerbolt head so that the 4 center bolts sit flush on the washer, but you should be fine.
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Car: 1989 Firebird Formula
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
Thanks Zephyr!
Here is the parts list I believe I need...
RUS-610160 (90 degree -6 AN Hose to Female -6 AN) x 2
RUS-632070 (-6 AN, 10 ft. Length)
EAR-9894DBHERL (-6 AN Hose End to 14mm x 1.5 Female)
EAR-9894DBJERL (-6 AN Hose End to 16mm x 1.5 Female)
RUS-610020 (Straight, -6 AN Hose to Female -6 AN) x 2
Can anyone confirm this is correct? I'm not sure about the fuel line connection to the back of the intake. Would I just use two of the RUS-610020?
Thanks again!
Here is the parts list I believe I need...
RUS-610160 (90 degree -6 AN Hose to Female -6 AN) x 2
RUS-632070 (-6 AN, 10 ft. Length)
EAR-9894DBHERL (-6 AN Hose End to 14mm x 1.5 Female)
EAR-9894DBJERL (-6 AN Hose End to 16mm x 1.5 Female)
RUS-610020 (Straight, -6 AN Hose to Female -6 AN) x 2
Can anyone confirm this is correct? I'm not sure about the fuel line connection to the back of the intake. Would I just use two of the RUS-610020?
Thanks again!
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
Thanks scamaro355! I read that site earlier but missed the fuel rail pics.
I ordered the HSR this morning and the fittings listed above.
Can anyone tell me if a Fel-Pro 1256 intake gasket will work with the HSR? I did a search but couldn't find any info on this.
Thanks again everyone!
I ordered the HSR this morning and the fittings listed above.
Can anyone tell me if a Fel-Pro 1256 intake gasket will work with the HSR? I did a search but couldn't find any info on this.
Thanks again everyone!
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
im not sure about the gasket...i used a felpro 1205...perfect match for the ports
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
Ok... I'll look into the 1205.
Is there an adapter I can get so I can use my existing TPI fuel pressure guage?
Thanks again guys!
Is there an adapter I can get so I can use my existing TPI fuel pressure guage?
Thanks again guys!
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
Just a quick update... everything is on order and should be here tomorrow.
I picked up the mr gasket waterneck & hose last night at Advance auto and will get the 1205 gasket today.
Does both the sensor in the front of the manifold and the one under the plenum screw into the back of the HSR plenum?
Thanks!
I picked up the mr gasket waterneck & hose last night at Advance auto and will get the 1205 gasket today.
Does both the sensor in the front of the manifold and the one under the plenum screw into the back of the HSR plenum?
Thanks!
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
Just a quick update... everything is on order and should be here tomorrow.
I picked up the mr gasket waterneck & hose last night at Advance auto and will get the 1205 gasket today.
Does both the sensor in the front of the manifold and the one under the plenum screw into the back of the HSR plenum?
Thanks!
I picked up the mr gasket waterneck & hose last night at Advance auto and will get the 1205 gasket today.
Does both the sensor in the front of the manifold and the one under the plenum screw into the back of the HSR plenum?
Thanks!
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Car: 86 Trans Am, 88 Formula
Engine: 95LT4, 305TPI
Transmission: T56, T5
Re: upgrade to HSR?
I put the front sensor on the front top drivers side of the HSR base (this one is a coolant temp sensor for the ECM) and the bottom sensor in the bottom of the HSR plenum, this is the intake air temp sensor.
The back of my HSR only has vacuum lines.
Also, there are 2 ways to mount the fuel pressure regulator, one way has the outlet facing the drivers side of the car and the other way faces the passenger side.
Having it face the drivers side makes it harder to adjust the regulator since you will need a long screwedriver and will be adjusting it from the pass side, and putting the vacuum, line back on is a little tough.
Having it face the pass side requires a 90* AN fitting and allows you to adjust the regulator from the drivers side with ease.
I'll bring my camera with me tonight and if I meet up with my friend, I'll snap a few pics of his engine since his is set up with the regulator facing the pass side while mine faces the drivers side.
The back of my HSR only has vacuum lines.
Also, there are 2 ways to mount the fuel pressure regulator, one way has the outlet facing the drivers side of the car and the other way faces the passenger side.
Having it face the drivers side makes it harder to adjust the regulator since you will need a long screwedriver and will be adjusting it from the pass side, and putting the vacuum, line back on is a little tough.
Having it face the pass side requires a 90* AN fitting and allows you to adjust the regulator from the drivers side with ease.
I'll bring my camera with me tonight and if I meet up with my friend, I'll snap a few pics of his engine since his is set up with the regulator facing the pass side while mine faces the drivers side.
Last edited by Zepher; 07-01-2009 at 06:32 PM.
#21
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
Missed this thread... you'll like the HSR. Torque curve moves up. It does sacrifice a small amount of power/tq in the lower range since thats where TPI peaks. HSR will peak higher than TPI so on a dyno you will see a torque difference.
The main thing is the HSR flattens the torque curve which creates a smooth acceleration pull at all rpms. More average torque is made and the car should be much quicker overall with HSR over TPI on a motor like the one in your sig.
My L98 with HSR was much more fun to drive than the stock TPI. Didnt notice much loss in torque but the 2800 stall converter helped that out.
Sounds like you have all the right parts.
My build i had the coolant temp sensor in one of the front ports on the HSR base by the waterneck. Any will do. Plug any others not needed.
Intake air temp sensor can screw in under the plenum or in the back of the plenum. Your choice. I went with the back since it was easier to do with the wiring harness. The spot under the plenum i used for PCV valve hookup.
The other spots in the back of the HSR plenum are used for EGR/other random vacuum lines , brake booster, and fuel pressure regulator.
THey do make a fitting i believe that will allow you to use TPI style fuel guage. Grainger makes them i believe. HSR is a 1/8 npt fitting if i recall, and TPI is something else obviously but i cant recall what it is. You'd have to search for it on here.
Other easier option is to buy a 20 dollar summit fuel guage for rail mounting (water filled) and a 90 degree fitting 1/8npt male to 1/8npt female. Fitting goes in the HSR rail fitting port and the gauge goes to the fitting. That way you can see fuel pressure all the time
The main thing is the HSR flattens the torque curve which creates a smooth acceleration pull at all rpms. More average torque is made and the car should be much quicker overall with HSR over TPI on a motor like the one in your sig.
My L98 with HSR was much more fun to drive than the stock TPI. Didnt notice much loss in torque but the 2800 stall converter helped that out.
Sounds like you have all the right parts.
My build i had the coolant temp sensor in one of the front ports on the HSR base by the waterneck. Any will do. Plug any others not needed.
Intake air temp sensor can screw in under the plenum or in the back of the plenum. Your choice. I went with the back since it was easier to do with the wiring harness. The spot under the plenum i used for PCV valve hookup.
The other spots in the back of the HSR plenum are used for EGR/other random vacuum lines , brake booster, and fuel pressure regulator.
THey do make a fitting i believe that will allow you to use TPI style fuel guage. Grainger makes them i believe. HSR is a 1/8 npt fitting if i recall, and TPI is something else obviously but i cant recall what it is. You'd have to search for it on here.
Other easier option is to buy a 20 dollar summit fuel guage for rail mounting (water filled) and a 90 degree fitting 1/8npt male to 1/8npt female. Fitting goes in the HSR rail fitting port and the gauge goes to the fitting. That way you can see fuel pressure all the time
#22
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
Thanks Orr89RocZ and Zepher! Much appreciated!
I have a problem with the passenger side, rear fuel rail fitting... the piece that goes in there only fits if i screw the -6AN fitting into the rail. This leaves the small end sticking out and won't fit my -6AN fuel line connection.
Attached is a pic of the piece I'm referring to.
The only two pieces left in the bag are the 2 barb fittings.
Any ideas? I would assume I need a -6AN male to -6AN male adapter???
Thanks!
I have a problem with the passenger side, rear fuel rail fitting... the piece that goes in there only fits if i screw the -6AN fitting into the rail. This leaves the small end sticking out and won't fit my -6AN fuel line connection.
Attached is a pic of the piece I'm referring to.
The only two pieces left in the bag are the 2 barb fittings.
Any ideas? I would assume I need a -6AN male to -6AN male adapter???
Thanks!
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
Also, where does the vaccuum line hookup to the adjustable fuel pressure regulator?
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
If I recall correctly, the non-AN side will fit the fuel rail, and the AN side should fit your fuel line.
The vacuum line actually hooks up over the adjustment screw.
The vacuum line actually hooks up over the adjustment screw.
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
Thanks formularpm!
Do you take the adjustment screw out or leave it in and slide the hose over it?
Do you take the adjustment screw out or leave it in and slide the hose over it?
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
The fittings in the rails are -6an o-ring style fittings unless holley changed them in the past few years.
The fitting in the kit for the fuel rail should be a -6an oring to -6an male fitting. The o-ring side of that fitting in the pic should go into the rail and the rounded side is for your -6an lines. Both ends will thread in the rails just fine since they are both -6 an. You just need to make sure the flat end with the o-ring goes in the rail
The fitting in the kit for the fuel rail should be a -6an oring to -6an male fitting. The o-ring side of that fitting in the pic should go into the rail and the rounded side is for your -6an lines. Both ends will thread in the rails just fine since they are both -6 an. You just need to make sure the flat end with the o-ring goes in the rail
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
Thanks Orr89RocZ!
They must've change the fitting... mine is something small w/ o-ring to a -6AN. I'll have to order a fitting.
I'm trying to put my stock distributor in but it won't seat flush against the intake. Any advice???
They must've change the fitting... mine is something small w/ o-ring to a -6AN. I'll have to order a fitting.
I'm trying to put my stock distributor in but it won't seat flush against the intake. Any advice???
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
No matter what I do, it doesn't seem like it "drops" into place like it should. It needs to go down about a half inch...
A stock 89 distributor should work with the HSR, right?
A stock 89 distributor should work with the HSR, right?
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
Were you able to use the factory style cap? Or did u have to use an smaller aftermarket one?
Is there a way to adjust the cam gears so the dist will mesh well?
Thanks!
Is there a way to adjust the cam gears so the dist will mesh well?
Thanks!
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
Make sure the slot at the top of the oil pump driveshaft is aligned with the flat drive "blade" at the bottom of the distributor shaft. Look down the distributor hole in the intake manifold, and use a long flat-blade screwdriver to turn the oil pump drive to a known position. Remember, the distributor shaft will rotate slightly as the dizzy gear and the cam gear begin to mesh.
Bill
Bill
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
Thanks Bill!
For some reason, the dist was hard to take out... felt like it was stuck... after a good amount of wiggling, it finally came out.
Now I'm having trouble putting it back in... I made sure the oil pump and dist blade aligned but it just doesn't want to go down all the way. I figured it wasn't meshing with the cam gear as Orr89RocZ had mentioned above.
If I simlpy bump the starter, will the dist fall into place?
For some reason, the dist was hard to take out... felt like it was stuck... after a good amount of wiggling, it finally came out.
Now I'm having trouble putting it back in... I made sure the oil pump and dist blade aligned but it just doesn't want to go down all the way. I figured it wasn't meshing with the cam gear as Orr89RocZ had mentioned above.
If I simlpy bump the starter, will the dist fall into place?
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
Originally Posted by formula_novice
If I simlpy bump the starter, will the dist fall into place?
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
Thanks for the advice, guys!
I took out the spark plugs and turned the crank just a little bit. Then the dist fell right in!
I've never had that problem before, but I guess there's a first time for everything
Dumb HSR noob question: If you are facing the engine, is it the hard fuel line closest to the firewall that goes to the rear pass side of the HSR? Or does that one go to the regulator?
I took out the spark plugs and turned the crank just a little bit. Then the dist fell right in!
I've never had that problem before, but I guess there's a first time for everything
Dumb HSR noob question: If you are facing the engine, is it the hard fuel line closest to the firewall that goes to the rear pass side of the HSR? Or does that one go to the regulator?
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Car: 86 Trans Am, 88 Formula
Engine: 95LT4, 305TPI
Transmission: T56, T5
Re: upgrade to HSR?
when you look at the hard lines on the car, the larger one (3/8") goes to the pass side rail and the smaller one (5/16") goes to the regulator.
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Re: upgrade to HSR?
Thanks for the advice, guys!
I took out the spark plugs and turned the crank just a little bit. Then the dist fell right in!
I've never had that problem before, but I guess there's a first time for everything
Dumb HSR noob question: If you are facing the engine, is it the hard fuel line closest to the firewall that goes to the rear pass side of the HSR? Or does that one go to the regulator?
I took out the spark plugs and turned the crank just a little bit. Then the dist fell right in!
I've never had that problem before, but I guess there's a first time for everything
Dumb HSR noob question: If you are facing the engine, is it the hard fuel line closest to the firewall that goes to the rear pass side of the HSR? Or does that one go to the regulator?
Yes to what Zepher said. Small is return and goes to regulator. Big is supply and goes to passenger rail if thats how you have your rails setup which is the most common way of doing things
#39
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Car: 1989 Firebird Formula
Engine: 383 Stealth Ram
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.73 9 bolt Posi
Re: upgrade to HSR?
Thanks guys!
I'm working on routing my fuel lines and, so far, everything is going ok
Next I need to figure out where/how I'm going to mount my external coil...
I ordered the fluid filled Summit pressure guage everyone recommended. Can that stay mounted on the rails or should it come off after I adjust the pressure?
Thanks again for all the help! Much appreciated!
I'm working on routing my fuel lines and, so far, everything is going ok
Next I need to figure out where/how I'm going to mount my external coil...
I ordered the fluid filled Summit pressure guage everyone recommended. Can that stay mounted on the rails or should it come off after I adjust the pressure?
Thanks again for all the help! Much appreciated!
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Car: '91 Z28 L98 G92
Engine: Modded L98
Transmission: Modded 700R4
Axle/Gears: Modded 10-Bolt
Re: upgrade to HSR?
As for mounting the external coil, I trimmed off the "lug" on the rear, right-hand side of the intake base and installed the coil mount bracket in the stock location, picking up the two aft intake-to-cylinder head bolts.
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Car: 1989 Firebird Formula
Engine: 383 Stealth Ram
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.73 9 bolt Posi
Re: upgrade to HSR?
Thanks for the help again guys!
I finished cutting and running the fuel lines today. Other than buying a push-on air breather for the valve cover, I think I'm at a stand-still until my remaining parts arrive on Wed.
Since I have some down time, I might paint some black stripes between the plenum fins to pretty it up a bit.
Attached is a pic of where I'm at right now... I don't know about everyone else, but this car guy loves engine pics
Thanks again!
I finished cutting and running the fuel lines today. Other than buying a push-on air breather for the valve cover, I think I'm at a stand-still until my remaining parts arrive on Wed.
Since I have some down time, I might paint some black stripes between the plenum fins to pretty it up a bit.
Attached is a pic of where I'm at right now... I don't know about everyone else, but this car guy loves engine pics
Thanks again!
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Car: 86 Trans Am, 88 Formula
Engine: 95LT4, 305TPI
Transmission: T56, T5
Re: upgrade to HSR?
I had that thermostat housing and that blue felpro gasket and they leaked.
I ended up going with a cast TBI one (used screw-in plugs to seal the sensor holes) with that blue felpro gasket.
I mounted my coil to the cowl,
I ended up going with a cast TBI one (used screw-in plugs to seal the sensor holes) with that blue felpro gasket.
I mounted my coil to the cowl,
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Car: 1989 Firebird Formula
Engine: 383 Stealth Ram
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.73 9 bolt Posi
Re: upgrade to HSR?
Awesome!!! Thanks for the pics, Zepher!
While I'm waiting on the last few parts, I decided to go ahead and paint some stripes on my plenum... they kind of go with the stripes on my valve covers.
Here are the before & after mocked plenum install pics...
Thanks again!
While I'm waiting on the last few parts, I decided to go ahead and paint some stripes on my plenum... they kind of go with the stripes on my valve covers.
Here are the before & after mocked plenum install pics...
Thanks again!
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Car: 1989 Firebird Formula
Engine: 383 Stealth Ram
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.73 9 bolt Posi
Re: upgrade to HSR?
Hi Guys,
Made some progress tonight but ran into a problem... the throttle linkage assembly on the side of the throttle body is hitting the fuel rail. I thought about grinding the linkage assembly down a little but wasn't sure if there was a better alternative. How did you guys fix this?
Thanks!
Made some progress tonight but ran into a problem... the throttle linkage assembly on the side of the throttle body is hitting the fuel rail. I thought about grinding the linkage assembly down a little but wasn't sure if there was a better alternative. How did you guys fix this?
Thanks!