Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I think i got the same problem with my single plane now. I have the 89 MAF system IAT sensor in the runner of the manifold and it reads the same temp just about, no matter what happens... I think it is picking up the surrounding radiant heat

formula_novice

iTrader: (1)

Does anyone have a pic of the IAT relocated?

I did some searching and it seems that relocating causes the computer to read the air temp more accurately thus allowing for about a 2mpg increase in fuel economy.

Not sure if it does anything for performance (HP/TQ)?

cronsformula350

The IAT is mostly responsible for the EGR working, and if you don't have one, then it won't matter. If you have a MAF sensor, it also reads the temp, along with airflow, and is mostly responsible for Advancing the timing. My car runs great, and I have my IAT in the bottom center hole of the plenum. But Next time I take off my HSR, which will be soon, to go back to the other head gaskets; On the bottom of the HSR, there are 4-bosses from the casting. I'm going to drill, and tap them for 1/4-20" bolts, and put a piece of sheet metal on the bottom of the intake, this way it will stop the oil from splashing up on the bottom of the intake runners, it shouldn't be that much splash, but thats mostly why the intake is getting heat soaked. So when I do it, I'll definitelly post that also. I just didn't feel like doing it when I put the intake on.

formularpm

Just in case you're interested...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/fabr...ification.html

formula_novice

iTrader: (1)

Did you try any of the suggestions? Do you have a finished photo?

Thanks!

cronsformula350

wrong post

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

I would be interested in the resulting temp readings, because the intake is going to get heat soaked still. It has coolant that would be at least 160* and is on top of the engine, which is hot, and hot air rises and also raises the temp of the manifold.

cronsformula350

Well its funny man that u say that. Because compared to my old Ported TPI intake, it was practically outside ambient air temperature after driving for a while regardless of outside temp. If you just sit and idle, then of course the intake gets even hotter, but if you drive, it stays nice and cool. I even have a hood with a scoop in it, so it cools it off even more, but I took out the scoop for now, so people can see the aftermarket HSR intake setup; I mean its basically a fuel injected dual quad intake.

I have better than stock heads, world sportsman II's, an 51% underdrive crank pulley along with a Edelbrock water pump, so it cools better than it does from the factory, I also have an aluminum radiator, and I hardly ever even use the fans on the radiator, unless I'm in backed up traffic.

The whole point of this metal on the bottom of the intake, is to shield it from the hot oil, because oil can aprroach 275 F* in the motor. I don't use the stock ghetto oil cooler anymore either, because I needed the room for my long tube headers, so yes the shield will help. But the hot coolant, in my engine stays right around 160 F* so thats not an issue, its only in the very front of the intake, theres some room in between the runners and the coolant passage way, so it isn't an issue.

I'm probably going back to the Felpro 501-sd head gaskets this spring, because these GM gaskets I used that are .028 instead of the 501's .041, missing two lower cylinder head holes in the gaskets, the motor runs hotter, and it does heat soak the intake, so they have to go. I just wasted money on these gaskets, that were supposed to be great. But when you want higher compression, you have more heat to deal with anyway, so I guess I'm just being picky. But every 10 F* cooler, is one more horsepower in the intake tract, as the air is more denser, so more power!

formularpm

Apologies for the late response. I actually haven't followed up on any of the suggestions. To be honest, it seemed like a diminishing returns thing at this point.

cronsformula350

I'm pulling my trans out for now, putting a 3000 stall with a anti-balloon plate, installing my 91 GTA aluminum driveshaft next week. Then pulling the heads, putting the new 501SD's back on, because they are better. Cools better and barely any difference in compression. Then putting that plate on the bottom my HSR! Then if money permits, I'll do the cam swap, but if not, I'll retard the cam 4* from straight up to make more power up top to help the HSR.

Nater36

zepher.. at what rpm did you make peak hp and tq?

Zepher

iTrader: (1)

cronsformula350

You really have to tune the motor, because where the HSR makes peak HP, the stock tune delivers a lot less fuel, so when it seems like its pretty good in the seat of the pants, its not as good as it could be, get a Fast Chip tune!

Nater36

do you think the hsr will make a big difference with a 305 .030 over, zz4 cam, headers, 3" y-pipe and all the way out, no cats and spiral flow muffler?

cronsformula350

The stock TPI intake was built and designed for a 305. Using a HSR on a 305 would kill most of its torque, but with the right cam, it would probably work pretty good, but you'd have to stay with some 1-5/8" headers to help keep its torque down low and you'd want to run at least a 3000 stall.

I wouldn't switch the intakes, just do some work to the stock TPI setup, like better runners, maybe some bowl blending of the heads, along with some port matching/port work and a healthy cam, headers and exhaust, and of course a tune, thats really all you need to do to see a huge difference in a 305.

Nater36

i already bought the HSR and have tuning equipment plus i have a T5 and 3:70 gears.. im thinking this should be optimal for the quarter?

cronsformula350

that should work good, but the HSR is more geared towards use on a bigger cubic inch motor, so the 305 will have to scream. The biggest reason the 305 doesn't make that great of power, is the 3.75" bore, which hurts the airflow. Thats why the old chevy 302's kicked so much ***, it had a shorter stroke, but the same 4.00" bore, so it breathed great. Forced induction is really needed to wake a 305 up even more.

formula_novice

iTrader: (1)

Well guys, I've decided to go back to a LTR TPI setup.
I figured with my combo, I would still have plenty of torque to spin the tires and have fun.
But since installing the HSR, my car just isn't fun to drive around town anymore. The lack of bottom-end/mid torque has made driving the car really boring.

I sent TPIS a data log and they say the chip is ok. I've also played with the timing and fuel pressure hoping to "wake her up" but no luck.

Unfortunately my budget has been pretty depleted so I might have to run the stock runners for a little while until I can afford another set of LTR's.

Thanks again for all the help during my project!

formula_novice

iTrader: (1)

In a last moment effort, I bumped the timing up to 14* and the car responded a little better down low. Not TPI torque but better.

However when I was manually shifting up the gears, around 5000rpm the tach seemed to stagger and the car felt like it cut-out. Any ideas what would cause this?

Thanks guys!

Nater36

fuel pressure problem possibly.. read through this..

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...roc/index.html

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

Probably your knock sensor setting off causing your car to retard timming, think 14* might be little much.

formula_novice

iTrader: (1)

Hi Guys,
I finally got the car out and running around 5k to do a data log (attached as a txt file - rename to .csv and open in excel). I bumped the timing down to 12*. It looks like it is running just a little lean around 5k but nothing too bad. Any ideas?

Also, I had the tranny in 1st when I did this run. When i got to around 5200rpm-ish, the tranny seemed to shift gears to 2nd even though i didn't manually upshift?

ANY info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

MTXaudioSYSTM

i love my hsr. i have no clearence issues with my stock formula hood

Nater36

more fuel pressure

formula_novice

iTrader: (1)

Guys, I finally stuck the FP gauge on the hood and took the car for a spin. The car was showing between 40-42psi of fuel (it was normally around 42 but would sometimes be a little lower).

I stepped on the gas in first gear all the way to about 5200rpm. The gauge was steady at 42psi at 5200. I'm assuming this means my fuel pump is ok?

I decided to take the vacuum line off the FP regulator and it showed, at idle, about 48psi. I bumped it up to 50psi but haven't taken it out yet to see if this helps. I also plan to bump the timing down a little more to 10*.

Do these readings sound ok? Any thoughts?

Thanks!

cronsformula350

I sent my regulator back to holley and had it replaced, so I have a new one. I'm putting it in tomorrow, and I'm going to try and get my new BBK/Walbro 255 lph fuel pump in, then I can go ahead and get my fyrbird back on the road! The car shows/cruise nights have already started. So along with my driveshaft loop, new trans mount, 3000 stall, holds to 2400 on the foot break, aluminum '91 GTA aluminum driveshaft, this cars ready to rock. All I need soon is 5point seat harness's and a 8 point cage and some nitrous!

As for your question, what fuel injectors are you running?

Nater36

have you tried it yet? any differences? too much timing and not enough fuel could give your symptoms..

stealthroc89

The trottle linkage does hit the cross over tube, easy fix tho, slightly bend linkage so it clears without the chance of getting stuck open. I finally put enough miles on my engine to let loose on the throttle and all I have to say is, whatever you lose down low is nothing when compared to the gain up top. It pulled very hard all the way to 6k. If its just a weekend car and you dont race it, leave it alone. To truly enjoy a hsr you have to drive it daily. You only go to 4k so the tpi will be more than enough to handle your needs

formula_novice

iTrader: (1)

I dropped the timing to 6* and upped the fuel pressure from 48 to 50psi. The car seemed to pull better to about 5500rpm but then maxed out.

stealthroc89

My timings set at 8* and the fuel pressures @ 46psi. Swap out your ignition control module and see I theres a difference there, those things only work when they want to. Try running a bigger spark gap or step up to hotter plugs. We have similar set-ups and I have tons of torque and pulls cleanly all the way to 6k so yours shouldnt be falling on its face. My computer hasnt been tuned and its working out pretty nice, cant wait to get a custom chip and hammer it

formula_novice

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the advice Stealthroc89! So yours is running great with just the factory chip? I thought about putting my factory chip back in and trying it but figured it would make things worse?

stealthroc89

You can also try getting your chip burnt to fit the needs of the HSR, if you havent already. Yep, runs great with the stock chip, the only thing I dont like is it takes 5 seconds of cranking to get it started.

cronsformula350

umm...wow, you guys don't run enough base timing, I run 16-17* of timing, or almost just enough advance, before it detonates, you almost always feel a seat of the pants difference with a v8, however with 6 bangers or 5 cylinders, it may cost you some midrange power.

Try advancing the timing, 2-3* at a time, or until you start feeling no difference in the seat of the pants. Also your fuel pressure usually always makes more power, until you run too much fuel off the line, that it bogs. However, with a TPI stock intake, the bog off the line helps with traction problems, then cleans up enough to not be a problem when your in the gas. Also some injectors flow well with certain pressure, the best thing to do, is contact the manufacturer on what PSI usually has the best spray pattern, but it can be turned to high, and run pig rich.

stealthroc89

I have the timing low for a bit more torque, on the weekends a advance it for better power up high, but it runs great either way, it may be @ 10* I'm not sure what I set it at last

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Stock cam and HSR will peak in the 5000-5200 rpm range and fall off after 5500. So shift by 5500.

Are you checking this with EST disconnected? If so, thats way too much timing on stock chip with no adjustments made to the tables. that is over 10 deg advanced over stock which will put your WOT timing at over 44 deg which will CERTAINLY detonate and cause all kinds of problems.

8-10 works fine on these cars. Any more than that will bump your WOT timing up too high and you will see knock retard.

stealthroc89

Ya everyone tells me to kust twist the sucker, but even when it was stock I wouldnt mess with the timing much. For some reason 10* is workin pretty good for me and my stock chip. Any suggestions for a good place to get my chip tuned?

cronsformula350

I only checked the timing, with the car warmed up, in closed loop, and I ran the 16-17* base timing, at idle. Thats how with my iroc I went from a 15.1 @ 89, to a 13.81 @99. With a slipping trans! And I never had spark knock.

I ran 16* with my stock cam, with my other goodies and the HSR. Now that I have another cam, making my L98 a heads/cam combo, I have to change my fuel pump then play with it some more. It hasn't moved for two months! I've just had too much to do.

Generally theres a lot to be gained from advancing the timing to a point, with certain combos, you may lose a little torque in some places, but you pick up on top; however, theres so many engines out that you can play with timing on, you just have to try it out. If not at the track, seeing mph and Times, you just have to go by the seat of the pants. Thats hard to feel sometimes, it has to be more than 10hp. Just my two cents

Oh yeah, ED wright from Fastchip, does great work. Go to www.fastchip.com