doc

Well, I am in the process of tuning the HSR now that its installed and I figured out that my MegaMAF took a crapper on me. I am tuning with the factory air lid and MAF installed.

My first impression is that the idle is very smooth. Acceleration from a stop light is effortless; the engine loves to go. Also, the one time I did a 75% throotle run, the engine revved very freely up to 6500RPM like never before. I think that this car is going to be very fast.

I was running very rich near the 4,000 to 5,000 RPM range (11.0 to 12.0), while up at 5,500 to 6,000 RPM, I noticed that its running around 13.0:1... So I have some tuning to work out.

I will have to update my sig.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I'm gonna subscribe to this one. I think that motor will wake up alot, in the 5000-6000 rpm range.

doc

Just got back from Orlando dragstrip. My previous best there was something like 12.6x with maybe a 1.9 sec 60' time at 110mph with the Accel SuperRam. With the newly installed HSR, I ran a 12.38 sec ET with a 1.75 sec 60' time at 108mph and a 12.45 sec ET with a 1.82 sec 60' time at 108mph. Its hard to tell if the car is any better with the different 60' times. I will have to find my older time slips and dig into this issue more.

Cant believe I actually found the old time slip from Jan. 11, 2009:
ET = 12.75 sec; 60' = 1.905 sec; trap speed = 107.11mph

My two trap speeds tonite were 108.61 mph and 108.57 mph.

So, not much change; I have to admit that I am disappointed in these results.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

how is the tune so far? I would think there is more to be had there

doc

Orr: I wanted to ask you what timing are you running at high RPM? My tuning is fairly well set as far as fueling is concerned. The drivibility is excellent; I need very little correction from the computer for fueling, with respect to, the several fuel cells that I hit while cruising around. And, idle quality is excellent also.

I am more focused on the 108mph trap speed; I feel that it should be higher. So I am thinking about the timing here. When I get back home, I will compare the 1/8 mile info to see if I can conclude anything between the Accel SR and HSR.

doc

And: what about fuel between Florida and Michigan? Here in Florida, even the Shell I bought last nite (after the dragstrip) has "up to 10% alcohol" in it. BTW: I have only purchased 93 octane for this car for the last 12 years.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Fuel around me is the same, up to 10% ethanol. I always ran sunoco 93 oct. Occassionally i put in Giant Eagle getgo brand or Sheetz 93 when it was late and i needed gas. But i never really tracked it with different fuels. Felt the same to me.


For timing i run 34 degrees at WOT from 2800 rpm to redline. I have tried up to 39 degrees at oer 4800-6800 rpm and saw no difference. It made best power on the dyno at 34 degrees. Thats with the new eliminator AFR 195's chamber.

running about 12.8-13.0 air fuel too from 5000-6500+. I was in the mid 13's from 3500-4800 rpm so maybe thats why my torque came out abit lower than i'd like

doc

Orr: thanks for the info. I have 32.7 in the top box of the timing table. I have to find out if that is total timing or do I add the static timing on top of that.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Static is already in that. If your engine base timing matches your base timing in the Bin, then its already added. IF engine timing doesnt match, then you have to add or subtract however far off you are from the bin value.

Also are you running PE mode spark advance? Factory tunes use this and I did as well. My table shows 26 degrees but PE adds 8 to that. My base is 10. I have 34 degrees timing

doc

The PE Spark Advance table has 3.87 degrees in for 4800 and 3200 RPM, therefore, I must be commanding about 36.6 (32.7 + 3.9) degrees total timing.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

sounds about right. Thats pretty good timing. 34-36 is a good range.
How's your air fuel ratio now?

Duts87ss

iTrader: (10)

Orr, would you mind sharing your timing table? I still have tons of AE and PE tuning to do, but I only have about 16 degrees from 3200 up at WOT. I seem to get a lot of knock with anything more; maybe I should have started adding fuel instead of pulling so much timing.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Sure

doc

I do not have a way to data log the wide band O2, however, as I ran down the track on the second pass, I looked at the meter several times and saw mid 12s, high 12s and one 13.6 (I think that this occured during a shift). So I think that I am pretty close on the WOT AFR.
I am thinking about getting on a chassis dyno and get some data, such as, AFR vs RPM. Then, I can fine tune a bit more.

Duts87ss

iTrader: (10)

Thanks. I may have to try it out and see how it works with my setup. Right now I'm running a modded LT1 table that I found on here.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

it worked pretty good for mine. May want to play with idle timing. I ran alot to help stabilize my fairly aggressive cam. It was fun getting it to steady out and drive near stock. Converter probly helped that alot.

Overall i'd say the timing is pretty conservative. You probly could near 4 degrees to the entire table except idle and WOT and it would be fine. my WOT is 34 but you can try more.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

It sounds like your within range. I wouldnt expect a huge increase in power with mild air fuel adjustment like 12.5 to 12.8-13 to 1. I am kinda surprised the motor didnt pick up as much. I'm sure you have some more hp/tq in there, probly alot more in the midrange if your still pretty rich in there, but i dont expect you to pick up much more than 1-2 mph out of it.

Maybe its the cam? Kinda small for HSR 396 and superam 396. Maybe the head flow isnt enough? Maybe a combination of both? Perhaps you've gotten the most out of that cam/heads setup but for some reason i'd like to think there is more in there with that cam. I figured you'd trap closer to 112

How heavy is the car?

doc

I believe that the car weighs about 3400 lbf.

Yea, the cam is a bit too small. I decided to keep the car very drivable. However, I am re-thinking that decision now. But I still wont go real big. Maybe something like 332/236 @ 05 lift, on a 114 LSA. What would you suggest?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

That motor probly could take a 236/240 type grind on a 112-113 and still be pretty driveable
233/236 ish type cam would also be a nice choice. For what its worth my turbo 400 cam is a 233/233 on a 112 and was designed to peak closer to 5800 rpm. I think you could use something in that area and look for a 5800-6000 rpm peak and still be very happy with it

doc

Agreed.

watman02

hey ORR what i the top line of your spark table indcate the 32,48,64 etc???
im new to that stuff
thanks

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Those are the LV8 numbers. That table is LV8 vs RPM. RPM on the left, LV8 is on the top.. LV8 is basically the load the engine sees. WOT it will see 208, idle is mostly 40-70 depending on how crazy your cam/motor is.