anesthes

iTrader: (12)

So I'm building another setup. Be about a 110* intake elbow to an ls1 throttle body when done.



The stock height of the 9901-101-1 Holley manifold is 5.65". We milled it down to 4.125".
The elbow will be 4.75" on the hood centerline. This will fit under the stock C4 hood.

cardboard mockup of the 4150 to LS1 throttle body adapter.



Throttle body is up-side-down in this application (2 bolts top, 1 bottom).

I sold my Miniram to GTA MATT. I imagine he will chime in soon as he progresses with the install.



-- Joe

fun Pain

http://intakeelbows.com/ if time is more important

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Yep, that's who I'm using. Aaron gave me an ETA of about 9/18 on the elbow.

I can't weld aluminum, don't have a metal brake, etc.

-- Joe

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

Did you see Edelbrock is now offering 5 different intake plenum elbows in various height and sizes? Adapts to a front mount round TB and a 4150 square bore intake mount pad. Seems to be what a C4 owner would want with a single plane intake!

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

The forward ones would work with a milled manifold, but the sideways one wouldn't work. Was too long, and it wouldn't clear the rail mount. I needed a pretty custom elbow.

My elbow is on a UPS truck, aaron got it finished early. Hopefully it fits on the first try.

-- Joe

Thomas Aquinas

iTrader: (14)

I enjoy following your work here, since it is similar to mine. Although you seem to have a jump on me with already owning the blower.
Please post some pics of the elbow when you get it. I'd like to see the differences internally between a fabed one and a cast piece. Hopefully it fits right for you the first time.
How are you doing your tuning?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Tuning with tunercat + datamaster. Once and a while I pop open tunerpro RT.

-- Joe

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

Quote: The stock height of the 9901-101-1 Holley manifold is 5.65". We milled it down to 4.125".
The elbow will be 4.75" on the hood centerline. This will fit under the stock C4hood.

I am interested in doing a swap to Port EFI possibly next spring(EBL-ECU). Will ditch the TBI manifold and may attempt to use my existing 7.4L TB to start until I can save the $ to buy an edelbrock sequential TB. I currently have a low profile procharger bonnet on TB.

Question why did you select the Holley unit? I most likely will use a Victor as I believe it will clear my C4 hood. My Holley TBI manifold is 5.4 inch high. Vic is 4.58. Plus I no longer need the 1.0 spacer to clear the injector pod. Not sure what other options I have? Professional Products? Thanks!

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I've used this manifold in the past and it worked well. I like the way the fuel rails mount, rather than the clips on the Victor manifold, I like the fact that the fuel rail kit comes complete with an adjustable 1:1 regulator. With the victor you have to piece it together.

If you go with a forward mount box, you should be able to use the victor. The victor I think is 4.5" tall, the low-profile forward mount LS1 throttle body should clear the hood but you may need a water neck adapter.

Professional products is almost 6" tall. I spoke with them, and it cannot be milled down because it's got raised runners.

Snap me some pics of your setup. I'd love to see it.

-- Joe

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

history:

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

-- Joe

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

That looks awesome Joe.....!

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Thanks!

It seems to run pretty good. Hopefully road test it this week.

-- Joe

DFI79MC

iTrader: (1)

Nicely packaged. Very well done.

Question though- Would you still have used the elbow instead of a regular 4 barrel throttle body if hood clearance wasnt an issue?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Probably not. The last one I did (not the first one) had a 4bbl throttle body, and throttle response was horrific.

The first one I did had a 70MM monoblade and it drove great, and trapped 119-120mph in the 1/4.

I also have this theory that on a turtle shell manifold like this, running the plumbing the way I did (real slow long curve) is much better than a "hat".
Maybe I'm wrong? This whole setup cost $1,100.

My other setups:


http://members.cisdi.com/~anesthes/intake-8-27.jpg

^^ 4bbl I built in 2005

http://members.cisdi.com/~anesthes/p...e/racetime.jpg

^^ Monoblade I did in 2004.

-- Joe

DFI79MC

iTrader: (1)

Excellent info, thanks.

I might be a little confused though, so could you clarify quick?

If this was an N/A deal and hood clearance wasnt an issue, do you feel a 4 barrel throttle body with a standard 14" air cleaner would work well? Is the elbow just a solution for lower hood clearance?

Thank you, it looks like you've ran a couple different setups based off the single plane deal. Hard to find people like that!

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Good questions.

I think on a naturally aspirated setup the first objective would be a plenum. I think that would also kill the 4bbl setup.

Next is heat. Unless you had an open hood, or cowl, your just drawing in hot engine heat. If I had a N/A setup, i'd plumb the air filter to the front of the car. I think the benefit of colder air outweighs the pressure drop in the length of pipe.

A few guys on here are running singleplanes and all to my knowledge have built plenums.

For a straight-out drag car, a 4bbl with an open air cleaner and hood scoop however would probably be a killer setup. Something that shifts at 7500, doesn't need much of a plenum, etc.. But I think for a 'street car' the design needs to favor where you are in the power band most of the time, and that is under 3,000 rpm..

-- Joe

mesterz2889

that thing looks awesome

DFI79MC

iTrader: (1)

Made a purchase over the weekend-





Looks like a good winter project!

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Cool cool! I think Kenwood has a pro-ram intake.


-- Joe

zz17iroc

iTrader: (4)

I'm glad to see you went back to a single plane, your my original reason why I went to a single plane from a Mini Ram. So when I saw that you went with Mini I was in shock especially knowing how bad they distribute air to back 4 cylinders. I don't know why you had such a bad throttle response with 4bl TB, mine is off the chain and crazy responsive. I've also trapped 122 mph with my set-up.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Maybe the spacer you are running? I was running the cc-306 cam with it, no spacer, and 10:1 compression.. Your 383 with the 847 cam + spacer might be a better combo. What is the compression ratio?

122mph is fast as crap with a n/a setup. Impressive!

The miniram was for hood clearance. We all make mistakes.

-- Joe

DFI79MC

iTrader: (1)

I'd be interested to hear more about your setup too ZZ. What type of spacer is that? I currently have a Wilson 4 hole tapered spacer with my carb... maybe I could reuse that.

Been hearing some negative things about single plane EFI setups regarding reversion, so I wanna make sure I do this right the first time! BTW, I'm guessing the 122 MPH was using the Zex, not?

GTA matt

iTrader: (1)

joe, looks good! BTW, i havent put the mini on yet. waiting for my racing schedule to clear up. i did take the time to polish it though. if i could figure out how to post pictures i would send you some. should be putting it on in a few weeks

zz17iroc

iTrader: (4)

No all motor, I trap 133 mph on a 150 shot. It's a phenolic spacer made my Mr. Gasket that I bought fron Auto-Zone. Reversion has alot to do with cam overlap and plenum velocity, so by using that 4 hole tapered spacer it should help some. I personally have mine open. My set-up is in my sig.

zz17iroc

iTrader: (4)

The cc-306 cam is similar to a 847 cam and they both require a 11:1 cr to perform well. I am running 11.2:1

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Well..

This combo is deadly fast.. And, in 6th gear it will even cruise around 1200rpm.

This is all when hot. (around 180f).

However, when cold, it won't even get out of the driveway without stalling.
(oddly enough too much enrichment)

Guess we'll spend some time with the laptop tomorrow.

Problem with chasing down these gremlins is, by the time you *think* you have it figured out the car is warmed up and running fine ..

-- Joe

Thomas Aquinas

iTrader: (14)

Joe,

Looks Great man!!! How close is it to the hood? How are the underhood temps with the blower and such? Or I guess what are your intake air temps?

I initially looking into a miniram when I started this project and with a bunch of guys (you included) talking about the crappy air distribution I went with a single plane. Another couple weeks and I should be out for a road test.

Again, Good job!

DFI79MC

iTrader: (1)

Anybody look inside their single plane EFI intake after it was used? Tonight I pulled the throttle body off the above pictured setup (clean), and from the butterflies all the way down the runners are pitch black. The engine this setup was on had less cam overlap than mine does, so thats worrying.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Valves too tight?

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

About 1/2" hood clearance.

I'm seeing 160f out of the blower at around 4psi shifting at 4500. I don't want to push it much higher until I finish dialing in my tune, and potentially swap out the fuel pump.

Thanks!

Good luck with your combo. Post pix!!

-- Joe

DFI79MC

iTrader: (1)

Good point, but not in this case. This setup was recently swapped onto the engine he was running for years. Never had a problem.

Heres the bottom of the throttle body, the inside of the intake looks the same.



Considering that nothing was sub-par on his car, it makes me worry about needing a cam swap in mine.

comp

is that from reversion ??

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

That is how the inside of my miniram looked.. I blamed it on the PCV..

I'll take a peak in my intake next week after I put a couple more miles on it.

-- Joe

drknow90rs_ss@y

iTrader: (3)

anesths; What are you using for electronics? I like this setup. Looks clean!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

looks good, what rpms will that manifold support?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Good question.

According to summit, 6,000 RPM

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

According to holley, 7,000 RPM

http://www.holley.com/9901-101-1.asp


My cam is 222/230, so I'm shifting around 5,800-6,000 RPM so it's perfect for me.. For a race motor that sees 6,800 RPM shifts probably want to go with a pro-ram in a 1206 port.


Electronics wise, it is a '730 ECM out of a 90-92 Fbody. Running a modified AXCN bin (corvette, manual trans, 1991).

-- Joe

drknow90rs_ss@y

iTrader: (3)

What are you doing about boost-retard? (To avoid detonation)

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Boost retard is designed for folks who can't lock in or change their total advance. I advance out to 26* and stay there.

There is no point to advancing out to a higher number when near baro, and then taking out advance as boost ramps - that method causes the cylinder temps to get hot.

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

have you ever used or thought about using Victor EFI? I cant remember if you did or not. I'm considering swapping the HSR for that to see if i have more to gain..but i'd probly swap to bigger cam as well.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

The victor EFI is cheaper, and it's a low profile intake. port size is the same, performance should be identical.

What annoyed me was the fuel rail kit. They don't sell a 'complete' rail kit. I put together a shopping list of parts that I *think* would work, but never bothered purchasing and trying.

If edelbrock sold a rail kit with an AFPR and -6 ends like holley, I'd be much happier.

Another thing I took issue with was the way the rails mount to the intake with those dumb clips. But that could be just me.

I do like the new Proflo2 casting / setup:

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...pf_intro.shtml

I think it's cleaner, has a better injector angle than the Victor, and it is complete. I'm curious if you can buy *just* the rail kid and base plate though. The electronics and 4bbl throttle body would not be needed for most fbody/ybody owners.

It's not a manifold for 500hp cars, but for most guys looking for HSRs or Ramjet's it's probably a good option.

-- Joe

drknow90rs_ss@y

iTrader: (3)

Thank you for explaining that to me, anesthes! I understand it now...

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

See i know edelbrock makes two victor EFI setups... based off the victor JR and victor E manifolds. Victor E says it supports hp up to 8500 rpms and i know many motors using victor jr and such doing faster times than me.

I want a manifold that will support near 7K on a 383 and will feed 550hp+ I'm close to 500 on motor now, i'm thinking of new bigger cam over winter. Not sure if teh HSR is holding me back or not but i wouldnt mind trying single planes.

Its between the victor stuff, FAST and holley. i dont mind incomplete fuel rail systems but the more complete the better. I just want the power/rpm range

That blackening of the TB looks like PCV system stuff but i cant be sure.

DFI79MC

iTrader: (1)

Dont worry about hurting my feelings here, but for what reason isnt the Accel Pro Ram intake manifold mentioned much when talking single plane EFI? It has a nice fuel rail mounting setup, and the casting is actually quite clean... even compared to what my current Edelbrock RPM air gap was prior to port matching.

I'm also curious which manifold the Pro Ram casting is based off of. Anyone know?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

When I spoke with edelbrock they said all EFI manifolds were victor E castings. Do you have a part number fo a EFI vic jr??

Anything with a 1205 port should support 550hp, 1206 for sure. These manifolds are all 1256 port and need to be gasket matched to a 1205. I think the pro-ram is available in a 1206.

-- Joe
----------
Don't know what it's based off. Just a little bit more money than the holley, and the casting is taller. Can the pro ram be milled down to 4.125" ??

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I could have sworn i seen that version but i can only find a victor E and super victor for vortecs now. No other sbc victor EFI's. Oh well no big deal

whats a 1256 port? simialr to 1205?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Bigger than a 1204, smaller than a 1205.

-- Joe

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

Is the Victor Junior "cast" to allow an EFI application? If so maybe Edelbrock can share the info(angle) to properly drill for bung? I too noticed JR not listed for EFI.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I'm not aware there ever was one. All the efi JR's i've seen were home made.

The new singleplane intake from edlelbrock (proflo2) looks pretty cool.



-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Know of any place/company doing conversions if you supply a manifold?