whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

1) The original poster had vac well with the specs for the combo (15 hg). He never had a qualified person work on the tune, even when it was offered by forum members. He instead insisted that it was a vac leak causing the problem.

So a chip from TPIS is not qualified enough? They build the damn intakes so one would expect they can tune a combo for one! I also had the car at J&M motorsports who HAS tuning capabilities, and they said straight up it was the intake not sealing. Hmmm, thats more than an "opinion." I have heard of MANY people whos cars ran great with a TPIS tune, a good freind of mine with the SAME combo, just 383 is one of them. I would think if they can get his right on the money the first time, mine should not be an issue.

2) The OP's combo has been done numerous times (miniram, 276 cam, tfs heads). I have one sitting in my driveway. No problems.

Well then you got lucky. I have heard of many a person who has had problems with the MINI RAM, not the tune.

3) The OP would rather blame TPIS because he is in over his head and can't figure out what is wrong with his engine.

Thats because it is TPIS. I paid a ton of money for the mini ram and the chip I got from them and in my opinion, they are both crap, because my car ran before! And I KNOW what is wrong, thats what the 5 months of playing with the car gave me.....it's the chip or the manifold. Thats what it comes down to. And guess what, they are both TPIS!


The resolution? He is throwing in the towel and trying an LS1 swap. Folks please learn from this. If you are not capable of this type of project don't bother starting it. A cam, head, and intake combo requires a lot of tuning and skill to get running properly.

And the real resolution is, Get a motor worth building. I could have easily gotten an LS1 and 6 speed by now, and it probably would have run for the summer. Thats the real lesson. The old motors have crap tuning capability, don't make as much power, and by the time you have a standalone or whatever you need to get it running, you could have had a much better engine and unlimited tuning possibilities. Don't make me look like an *** online, I don't appreciate it. I wasted my summer on this garbage, and I'm not a happy camper right now. A million people get chips from TPIS and the car runs and drives great right out of the box.

gmgod

So uhh, did you ever figure out what was wrong with it???

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

I did figure out that it is limited to either the manifold itself or the chip.......most likely NOT the chip since every time I have heard of someone getting a chip from TPIS it has worked perfect. I talked to J&M motorsports and they said that in the past, they used a TON of chips from TPIS, and the car always ran great.

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

One more thing, J&M had my car on an emulator, and added a bunch of fuel to the AE table as well as just adding fuel in general, and the popping DID NOT GO AWAY. Mike from thier has made chips for people, and he knows a good deal about what he's doing. He said no matter what he did, the popping never went away. He also told me they had a twin turbo camaro and had to ditch the mini ram because they said it was junk. He said that while they were trying to tune it, they noticed that the rear cylinders burn about 250 degrees hotter than the rest!!! Thats a huge difference, and he said it's because of the design. He said they put a stealth ram on the same motor because the owner was disgusted with it, and the cylinder temp dropped to about a 40 degrees difference between cylinders. He has had cars with them in before and he said they are a nightmare.

Do some research online, and you will find many people who have mini ram related problems. I'm not the only one, and I did nothing wrong in finding this information and validating it through the numerous tests performed on the car.

End result is that the mini ram is TOO expensive and is also a BIG waste of money, when there are clearly much better and easier options to work with out thier.

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

Did you ever have a WBO2 sensor hooked up to it?

Saigon_Bob

iTrader: (2)

Honestly you are still assuming guy. I feel bad for you but to go on what everyone else has had happen is never a viable source of guaranteed info.

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

...

Saigon_Bob

iTrader: (2)

lol whoops quoted u by accident. FAIL

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

tune with MAF its much easier to get right. MAF 6E using open loop and wideband o2 sensor/gauge you'll have it pretty damn close in 7 passes on the street and an hour on the dyno to fine tune. Hell closed loop isnt bad either but i had a issue at idle hot restart i couldnt figure out at the time but i think i know what it is now just havent tried it.
My combo is running as fast as most LSx guys out here including some 6.0's with L92 heads/cams etc. They are heavier than me and make more power but i use it better in a tad lighter car so i am hauling

Miniram has its issues but i think you need to really double check the manifold alignment, then get to tuning

TPIS has been known to make crappy chips as well as some good ones

NOBODY can mail order a tune. EVEN the same motor built by two different ppl wont necessarily run right even tho they have the same parts. LT1's however seem to be more consistant on mail order tunes for similar combos but they dont all run the same times or make the same power

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

I never personally had a WB02 but J&M did and they said it wasn't right. The car was running VERY rich they said, and nothing was adding up like it should. As far as tuning, I personally don't like the idea that I either have to pay someone 1000$ on the dyno to get a chip right, or buy the stuff and do it myself. I want to drive it, end of discussion. I understand that you possibly COULD make these engines keep up with LSx motors, but it's just harder and more expensive. Plus the computers are so much better and faster in the newer motors, they have sequential fire, they are win win. I love third gens period, and whatever setup you run, as long as it runs good, thats awesome. I just personally dont have the patience for it, and would rather throw an engine in, do a quick tune, and drive. But thats just me.

cronsformula350

Thats crazy about that intake, a lot of people have no trouble with them. But maybe they are spending less money on them, and making them cheaper, causing problems.

I was going to say, I'm going to reuse my modified base from my iroc-z on my formula, but go through my page and check out my ported HSR. Its so much cheaper than that mini ram, and it wil make more torque, thanks to its longer runners.

That definitelly sucks that your intake didn't work well.

My site: www.cardomain.com/ride/471099

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

I understand the ls1 engine is a sweet setup but you still run into the same problem of having to tune it. The engine is not going tune itself and the principle of tuning is the same. I'am kind of surprised they were adding fuel when it was running rich like that but anyways that's in the past now.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

No. Glenn (who is one of the best tuners i know) already told you the TPIS chip wasn't worth it, not to mention no mail order chip is going to work. I even went as far as talking to a member about going to help you, but you didn't seem interested in correcting the tune. I HAVE your combo, and idle is a nightmare to tune (on $8D). I had a singleplane on this motor 2 years ago and had similar problems which I thought were the injectors. I'm starting to think based on the cams trickflow sells vs what YOU AND I are using, the biggest problem is the huge slit in duration.. I've since reviewed some data from a few years ago and folks have swapped OUR CAM for a closer split (like 230/230, or 222/222) and gained 50hp and a better idle.

Fact is however, your idle was perfect. 15hg? I'd love that. I get around 11hg. You needed to work on the tune.


I think the chip is no good. But I've been telling people for years not to get mail order chips. Your miniram is fine. The only people who have had miniram problems are people trying to fit a 1205 miniram on a tall 1206 port head.

You ave absolutely no idea what you are talking about. There is NUMEOUS 10 second singleplane/miniram SBC combos on here. Visit the drag race board. LS1s are nice but you are being ridiculous.

You are being an ***. You asked for help, everyone chimed in, and then you went with the same banter you started with. AC could have probably fixed your tune.

A million?


I closed your thread because you had no factual information, just "Miniram = junk". I would have left it open had you actually diagnosed the problem. I don't know what is going on in your head, but you are going to be right back in the same place 5 months from now telling us your LS1 = junk and you need a hemi.


-- Joe

Saigon_Bob

iTrader: (2)

They shouldnt have been tuning the pop. they should have tuned the AFR and left it alone and searched the pop somewhere else ( Running pig rich with an exhaust leak, even minor, will cause this )

If you dont want to pay someone to tune your car and dont want to learn then you should probably get some sort of stock setup and leave it alone.

Not to sound harsh but you can't have both. I have an HSR with a MegaSquirt stand alone and im having tons of fun learning how to tune it. Then again im not modding my Daily Driver.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I idle open loop, VERY lean. closed loop after 1200rpm. I reproduced his problem by accident the other day when I was redoing my VE table. It's actually not all an AE issue. On a TPS movement I'd get a huge pop through the intake. I actually chuckled and thought of him.

My car runs great everywhere but idle. This wasn't an issue with the 306 cam, but with the 224/230 cam I had this issue. Not with lean pops like him, but my idle floats way too much when the fans come on.

1) Idle in open loop
2) Don't reset IAC, open blades to get 0 steps at idle
3) Zero out ALL the stupid RPM error spark tables
4) Idle 24-26 degrees
5) Battery correction tables adds WAY too much pw, which make the idle
rev to the moon when the fans come on.
6) Stock iac steps vs coolant temp table is insane.
7) Upper + lower VE tables overlap, 1600rpm cell will bite you every time.

If I had my hands on his car I could make his lean pops go away, I'm sure of it.

-- Joe

Saigon_Bob

iTrader: (2)

I know the off idle pop all too well.. MY HSR and megasquirt give a bit of pop right now but my IAC settings are all wrong ( have not a clue what is doing right now, but its not right ) and my AE isnt even tuned. The ve table is so rough its not even funny. Ive been diagnosing a stalling issue where the car would warm up and die then give a hard start. in fact ill PM you.

Anyways i know the feeling.

vwdave

My HSR/AFR/FAST setup just started developing a pop when I mash the throttle. I think my AE table is a bit screwed as the VE table isnt too bad. That and the CTS/IAT correction tables are also screwed.

Tuning is fun. Its also a PITA!!!

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

You can have your hands on my car if you'd like.........and if you can get it to run, I'll give ya a nice big kiss, but LS1's unlike the gen 1 FI motors can easily be tuned at any shop that tunes LS1 cars, which is a lot these days. I'm not saying I would tune it myself. I'm just saying getting an LS1 tuned right is much easier to have done because of available tuners.

cronsformula350

Its too bad we can't show the ricers this post, its like they always say "you have to tune a 4 cylinder"

Like you don't have to tune a v8? There dummies!

APACHE JOHN

LOL I had a V12 BMW that "popped" they have two fuel pumps.............it needed one.

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

I offered an old time diagnosis to solidify a possible vacuum leak in the intake valley, but nobody bothered to even attempt it. I'll reiterate for the OP, remove the PCV valve and inject propane into the valve cover through the breather. Give it a second or two to respond. If RPM increases, you have an internal vacuum leak, if it doesn't, you do not....

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

Everybody with a miniram has had the lean pop. The intake takes alot more fuel than the stocker. I still have some lean pops on 1/4 throttle take off that I need to fix.

I know first hand that TPIS doesn't know how to burn a chip years ago. Don't know if they have gotten better through the years, but a bud had 91 Z28, 383, comp 236-242 cam, miniram, etc and had TPIS do a stage V chip. Car ran so rich at idle you couldn't stand it after 30 seconds of idleing. Called TPIS and they didn't have a clue. That's when we all got started in chip burning. All TPIS had to do was lean out the lower VE tables. The lower vacuum from the cam was making the ecm dump fuel at idle. This was maybe 2003, but if they knew what they were doing in the first place, it shouldn't have been an issue. When you pay $450 for a

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

I will offer this from first hand experience. You do not even have to swap to a big open short runner intake like the mini-ram to get into trouble. Simply retarding the timing on a very stock 305 TBI converted to TPI so that it would not ping like mad made my TPI pop back through the TB. Then I put on Vortecs, SDPC Lower Intake, ASM Runners, and Tri-Y headers, with a little tiny mild roller cam made them surface again. ALOT of the issue was handled by adjusting ONE table. The table that decays the pumpshot out by distributer reference pulses. The first reference pulse has a 2x multiplier. The 2nd reference pulse has a 1/2x multiplier. If you raise the 2nd reference pulse to 1-2x you get a much nicer hit of fuel on both banks everytime the AE routine is active.

Don't under-estimate a TPI engine or OBDI electronics. Even if the OBDI stuff isn't your bag, its not that hard to convert to the 0411 LS1 PCM running the 2002 Express van tune and hardware. That makes the TPI sequentially injected and tune-able by all the LS1 software. That is my next move as soon as I get the $$$ for the tuning software and hardware. For now the 7730 SD TPI ecm works just fine.

http://s243.photobucket.com/albums/f...t=101_1400.flv

http://s243.photobucket.com/albums/f...t=101_1403.flv

http://s243.photobucket.com/albums/f...t=100_1709.flv

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

I would LOVE to do the LS1 PCM conversion but just dont have the cash right now. Looks like the car will just sit until the winter time and then maybe I'll have my motivation back to try working on it again. It's not going anywhere.

cronsformula350

so if you do this conversion, what all is entailed? Do you have to change all the TPI wiring? What about the sensors and distributor and everything? Do you just make a harness to adapt the components from the TPI to run to the LS1 computer?

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Basically, you use an LS1 PCM, a custom made harness which a guy on the forum supplies (S10wildside I believe is his name), and a distributor, crank sensor and timing cover assembly, and a knock sensor I believe out of a vortec truck motor. Put em all together with the express van tune in the computer and bam you have flash tuning on a TPI motor, with sequential injector fire. I myself dont know a whole lot about it but I priced out the parts and it comes to just under 1000$ for everything you need. WAY cheaper than a stand alone.

cronsformula350

Sweet! I may have to start saving for this soon too! You could probably just use LS1 Edit then right?

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Yup, and I think theres one other one thats compatible too. HP tuners I think.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Whats the max CFM an LS1 MAF will read up to?

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i believe thats 540 gm/s for the MAF but there are MAF sensors up to 90mm or more for lsx guys. So you should beable t cover your flow range. 85mm Z06 MAF is a popular upgrade. Either way they should flow enough for most builds.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Hrmm.. I wonder if that would be enough for my supercharger.

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

try looking over ls1tech to see what those guys are seeing. I do know alot of them go MAP tunes and ditch teh MAF but some do keep the MAF and just upgrade the size.

hell they make a 100mm sensor now. thats massive

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

The sensor could be 280MM, I'm more concerned with it's ability to see all the airflow. My plumbing is only 3" anyhow (76mm). Upgrading to a bigger throttle body/maf wouldn't flow more, would just cause pressure drop

Map is fine for naturally aspirated, or small boost like me. I'm tuning all the boost fuel in PE, but if I wanted to upgrade the blower and run stupid amounts of boost with alcohol I'd need to find a way to meter it.

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i see. Yeah far as i know the MAF's read to 540 or something like that. I know its 500+ gm/s. The ECM i guess is limited to that but they do have MAP as well so i am not sure how that integrates with MAF. I have heard MAP takes on the low rpms low medium loads and the MAF takes over high rpms higher loads stuff.

i'm sure if its maxed out you can do some sort of PE mode like we do on our cars. I'm not 100% sure as i havent followed the LSX thing that much anymore.

pandin

The LSx people have tuning issues too.

Just an observation, when the maf in my 2000 PU, 325 ls motor went bad. It wouldn't idle after the battery was disconnected (first time when replacing battery and second the starter 6 months later).

Had to allow the ECM to relearn idle then all was well.

You could even disconnect the maf and no change. Replaced the maf and it would idle at first start (after battery disconnect), no check engine light ever.

drknow90rs_ss@y

iTrader: (3)

Believe me, "the LS-1 guys" Have problems too. Unless you have access to a dyno and plenty of money, I wouldnt reccommend it!! I spent over 14,000 dollars on my LS-1 and electronics and several hours on a dyno.

Never again. I admit, tuning may be easier, but at what cost? A good tuner is hard to find, but when you do, its worth it. I would be concerned with compatability issues, putting an ls1 ecm on a non-ls1 motor... Admittedly I spent a whole lot more on my motor than a straight ls1/stock ecm swap but its not cheap, either way....

cronsformula350

That Ed Wright guy, I think that was his name, he has been tuning TPI motors for a long time, and can do a great job, I'll get a tune from him, but it will still probably be I think $350-400, and TPIS's are great too, but also $400 or more. So yeah...

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

I don't know how "great" TPIS's actually are. I sometimes wonder if it was my TPIS chip or the mini ram itself which was the culprit of my problems. I have heard bad things about TPIS in general, and will choose to stay away from them in the future.

As for the LS1 PCM and SBC motor compatibility, it's been done and proven to work very well, so I know it can be done. It's a pretty simple swap from what I hear.

cronsformula350

Well, were you using excatly the same components on the engine, as you told TPIS about? So that they tuned the engine, just for those components? If anything was different, besides ignition stuff, anything that was faulty would be partially to blame also, otherwise, there tune may have been fine. IF there were problems, your supposed to contact them, and they work it out with you, chips only cost $2.50 a piece, plus cost for the tuning they put into them, but they work things out. I'll probably still go with Ed Wright though, he has 30+ years experience, so he's the highest bidder for me.

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

I'm sure it was the chip not working. The engine was already built, so what I told them was on it was thier to stay. I'm sure they could have possibly gotten it right, but at what expense? I was deffinately not going to play mail tag with them going back and forth until I got one that worked. I don't know.....nothing against TPIS, but they have to improve on a few things if they want to stay in business. Like I said, I'm not the only one with horror stories coming from them. I've heard it from many people, where as you don't hear problems with holley, edelbrock, etc. I've never heard of Ed wright, but I'd say try him before TPIS, LOL. Good luck.

cronsformula350

Ed wright, is a guy that has been doing chips for a long time, check him out, look under GM High Tech, for more info, or search for his name. He does some of the best tunes, using a lot of different programs and for I believe $350 and will work with you, if the tune isn't right.

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Sounds good. I'll def keep that in mind incase I want to try this again, haha. Thanks for the info!

cronsformula350

look for the issue of gm high tech, of march of 2004, Ed Wright talks about tuning everything. He used Hex workshop, a binary/hex editor, Tuner cat software, LT1 edit and LS1 edit, and he states he has not found anyone else that does the tuning that he does or any store bought tuning. He uses a wide band o2 and a dynojet dyno, he also tunes anything from v6's through bigblocks. He has now, been in business for about 36 years.

This is a great issue, if you can find it on there site, or I can scan it and email you copies of it. But I'd trust him, over anyone else in the country for tuning, I mean yeah other guys are great, but do they have 36 years of experience?