Iroczracer

Getting almost to the point to start my combo, but need recommendations for a prom... I need to get it all together and running, so it can be removed for paint. Anyone have a good place to order a prom???/

Thanks

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

http://www.fastchip.com/

SLP_GTA

iTrader: (1)

I'm sure he is a member here.

http://www.scotthansen.net/

Iroczracer

Thanks checked out http://www.scotthansen.net/, prices are great... It's been a long time since this thing has ran.. It's like a date with the pro, queen!!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

how wild is the combo?

Iroczracer

Forged coated pistons 10:2: compression, Edelbrock Performer RPM Heads 64cc combustion chamber Edelbrock Performer RPM Retro roller cam 234 Intake, 238 exhaust duration at 0.0050 Lift 0.539 Intake, 0.548 exhaust 112 LSA. Comp Cams retro rollers, pushrods, rockers and timing chain. 1 5/8 Hooker Competition Headers, No emissions but retains purge canister and VSS. JTR 2000 pulses per mile VSS. With SVO style 24LB injectors..............


The Edelbrock engine using this cam makes 435hp, 435ft-lbs. That engine has 9:5:1 compression, while mine has 10:2:1...

91RS/SR355

I too am looking for a custom chip for my HSR equipped 355. I went to those sites and neither of them talk about the HSR. I know it is roughly based off the TPI system but will it work as well with a chip designed for TPI flow characteristics?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i'd ask for something based off the miniram or LT1 intake. HSR is closer to those than the TPI stuff.

Only places i've heard that do somewhat good work are Fastchip, PCMforless, and LSracing chips...but as of last night i think LS racing is no longer around as the website is gone

89formula350b2l

iTrader: (11)

He doesnt do mail order chips anymore. He does more actual dyno tuning now. His shop is Akron Horsepower http://www.akronhorsepower.biz/index.html I know there are mustangs on there but Jamy is the man you want to talk to when you call there.

91RS/SR355

Are you talking about Akron Ohio, because thats not far from where im at (Columbus, Ohio.)

Grim Reaper

Brilliant man. He knows that Mail Order doesn't work and a complete waste of money.

Burn your own or find a "hands on tuners". Everything else is a waste of money and a sucker's bet.

JCL91TRANSAM

iTrader: (3)

Listen to him because he is right. I didnt want to get into burning my own chips so I ordered one threw the mail and what a wast of money it was. So now I am back to square one but this time I have all my own chip burning equipment and all winter to learn how to use it.

Iroczracer

I had thought some about programming may own, due to my past computer sciences major. I think the cost and time would out weigh the need, especially for one car. Hers is a partial article from GM High Tech........


To Chip or not to Chip--Part Two A 1988 350 GM EPROM was used exclusively during this project. It appears the engine combination used in the IROC is on the edge of the stock chip's working parameters. However, the programming for the 1986-1988 mass airflow models added fuel when cranking in cold conditions via a cold start or ninth injector. Even though the StealthRam does not have a provision for a cold start injector, the car was able to crank with little to no difficulty in warm weather. Not until the weather turned cool did it become apparent the IROC was going to have to have a chip burned. It would need programming similar to the 1989 mass airflow models that added fuel for cold start cranking via the standard injectors. Buying a 1989 EPROM from your local GM dealer won't work since the vehicle anti-theft system (VATS) was added that year for the Camaros (optional for the Firebirds in 1988) and would prevent earlier year models without VATS (like our 1986 IROC) from cranking.
Thankfully Mike Davis of Maryland came to the rescue and burned a few chips based on the 1989 programming. He turned off the VATS as well as tweaked the fuel and ignition curve based on his own rewarding experience with the StealthRam. While the car has yet to make it back to the dyno or track with the new chips the car cranks perfectly in 30*F weather and feels a little quicker.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

For our cars maybe but there are TONS of mail order combos for LT1's that make BIG power and hit the nail on the head. Not sure if those tuners actualy dyno tuned a specific combo and then sold that tune to everyone else who has the same combo but it works.

Its a shame that our cars arent the same way..its mostly hit or miss

Atleast a mail order tune can get a beginner tuner close adn they can make changes from that point instead of from scratch

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

Of course not, because you have to get a custom chip for your HSR, not one of their off-the-shelf chips. Contact them and ask. I know for Fastchip you fill out a form with all your engines info, and Ed creates a custom chip for you.

91RS/SR355

This might explain me better. This is the section were he has you circle the engine type for a custom chip. "LS2? LS1/LS6? LT1/LT4? TBI? TPI? 3800V6? Blown? Turbo? NOS? Vortec Truck?" My thing is I have a 1970s engine block. So would I circle TPI and in the intake manifold area put in the HSR? Thats what I meant, Ill just direct all this to him, but thanks for the input.

Iroczracer

I did contact fastchips and it was around $360 dollars. As far as the year block you use, do not think that is a factor. Mine is 84 4bolt truck engine originally....

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

mail order prices are ridiculous tho,atleast fastchip is. a custom chip shouldnt be all that much, and that price should include multiple reburns which 90% of the time you will need.

there is NO way a mail order can really dial in a part throttle driveability tune on hot combos, except pcmforless/madz28.com for the well known LT1 combos. they've done enough of those to figure out whats goin on and can get it close. i'd try pcmforless to see what they can do

Iroczracer

Custom chips for modified engines run $350.00 + freight. I attached a custom chip order form in case you decide to order one. That is part of the email recieved from fast chips....

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

thats what i mean, if i knew what i was doing with chip burning and had a few tunes for a few different combos i'd sell them off for cheap. chips are like 5 bucks a piece and to ship them is like 1.50. haha for my hard work and time spent tuning a previous combo, i'd add a few bucks onto the price to make it worth it.

but then again if you figure, time you buy 200 bucks+ of prom tuning stuff minus the labtop, a 300+dollar tune isnt all that bad.

but most dyno tunes i've seen are like 300-400 bucks

Iroczracer

So what is the total cost involved in purchasing everything required to program. And where can you purchase the tools. It would be nice to know when the car is done, you built the motor, trans, done the paint, then throw the tune on her!!!!!!!!!!

comp

lurkin

Iroczracer

http://www.scotthansen.net/ Say,s he cab burn one for $185. GM High tech started there HSR combo on a stock GM. Unfortunately my prom is for 5.0, and I know that want work. It's like my friends Harley, everything is a 100 buck or more.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

well for most tunning stuff you can get away with Moates Burn1 programmer for 85 bucks, his ALDL scan cable/box for 80, and their chip adapter with 2 chips for 35-50 bucks now. this is everything i now use. www.moates.net

so for under 225 or so, you can begin to program your own chips.

Iroczracer

So whats stopping me from melting my motor down??? But could take the 5.7l prom and alter it to work with my combination...

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

yeah thats what you do is take the stock 89 ecm prom and modified the values to work with your combo. your combo is pretty hot so it will take alot of changes to work

Iroczracer

Do you use Tuner Pro, Tuner?? Also found things on www.tunercat.com.

Grim Reaper

On DIY Prom, we are happy to help out someone who REALLY wants to learn. And, 1989 MAF is the EASIEST one to tune. Using one of the stock 1989 MAF bins as a start, you only need to modify a few things to get max power.

With MAF you DO NOT need to make a lot of changes as the MAF corrects for air-flow. Only if you "max the MAF" will you need to do some extra tuning (via the P/E Tables) to compensate for the fuel. All you need to do is take the car to a dyno (once you get all the equipment as per DIY Prom) and then make a few adjustments to the P/E Tables.

The spark tables are easy to change and basically you tune until you start to hear some "knock" and then back it off a bit. It really isn't that hard. What happens, once you start tuning, most guys "get the bug" and then they start tuning for every little thing they can.

Heck, you can invoke something called "Highway Mode" which can save you a lot of money on gasoline - that the fuel savings can pay for the cost of all the eprom burning equipment.

You'll spend less than a custom prom AND then have ALL the equipment you need to tune your car EXACTLY. Better yet, if you are like most guys; you'll start to make MORE modifications to your engine in the future. Now, it won't cost you ANYTHING to re-tune it right again. And, you can install as big of an engine with as big of a cam as you wish...and tune it yourself (once you learn on your starting engine...which really isn't that radical to be honest).

Trust me, unless you can get a guy to tune your car "hands on", spend your money on the equipment and learn to burn your own eproms. Just come over to DIY Prom and we'll gladly help to teach you on how to burn your own eprom.

The only time we (DIY Prom) won't help, is when you are looking for someone to burn you an eprom. But, when someone is looking on burning their own eprom, we will gladly help you.

PS: You'll learn a heck of a lot on how to diagnose your engine. You'll know more about your engine than you ever thought possible. And, you'll be able to do if for as long as you own the car.

Unfortunately, I'm going to the hospital (again) for another operation in the next few days, and I won't be back on TGO for awhile, so I won't be able to personally help you. BUT, there are plenty of guys who will...many are here right now...

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i use tunerpro RT

Iroczracer

Thanks for all the info Grim, It's starting to be my best viable option. I will keeping looking for information on this subject. Three kids and Christmas it may take me a couple of months to get everything together. I have finished most of the wiring, redone vacuum, and cooling hoses. Still need to figure out how to connect the battery, and fuel lines. I just money in today for a MSD distributor, after reading the post, this seemed the only option....

Iroczracer

Also as far as dyno there is not one within 300 to 400 miles..

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i'll be running a similar combo hopefully by spring so we can share tuning tips i'm still in the market for heads but the cam i think will be 230/236 with lift near .550. so it should be similar to your cars setup.

Kevin91Z

iTrader: (1)

You need to do a little more research. GM recently raised the price of their proms to 200 dollars or more, because they're getting scarce. But the prom chip itself, which you can get from electronics stores are $5 or less, yes. However, then you still need to desolder your existing chip, solder in a ZIF socket, and install the new chip.

This is all explained in the "Introduction to PROM burning" tech article.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

you dont need a GM prom. all you really need is the ZIF socket adapter that moates sells and those cheap 5 dollar a piece EPROM chips. I wasnt refering to burning the actually GM factory Prom

Iroczracer

Seems like a lot of problems to go thru, maybe I should have junked all the electronics and went with the BG.......

gcpoland

iTrader: (18)

If you want, I can send you my bin from an HSR motor with 26lb injs. It will give you a little closer starting place than starting with a stock one. This is an 89 MAF set up.

Iroczracer

That would be a BIG Help and Thanks. I have Tuner Pro RT, but cannot open any bin files. On the left were it has Constants/ Scalars and down,remains blank. One time I could look thru them, but now not.

gcpoland

iTrader: (18)

Give me your email and tomorrow I will download it off my tunning laptop and will also send you the .xdf for it. You might also try removing and reloading Tuner Pro.

91RS/SR355

do you think you could send it to me. im running 30lb injectors and a pretty lumpy cam but a good start would be awesome

gcpoland

iTrader: (18)

Give me your e-mail. Understand that this is for a manual trans car. All the info for an auto is blank. I started with a manual bin and modified from there. It wouldn't take long to put the auto info in but until you do, your converter will not lock up.

19doug90

just so guys with stock chips who are going to bigger cam and heads, the tpi computer tune fuel actually drops off after 4200 rpms or something like that, its a peak.

if youre reving till 6000 you definitly need a chip to put fuel all the way up until there

91RS/SR355

Yea, thats ok im just looking for a decent start I appreciate it. I plan on getting it dyno tuned afterwards. in fact the chip i have now is from the guy i bought the stealth ram off of and it was dyno tuned to his setup. you think i would be better off keeping it how it is since his was auto and then just getting it tuned from there?

antman89iroc

I agree with most that custom "tuning" is the best way to get it right. However, for a starting point I contacted Brian at sales@tbichips.com and told him all my engine specs and he burned me a chip for $125.00. No, it's not dialed in all the way but at least he got my ignition in the ballpark and worked on the fuel curve. And it runs great with HSR for me. Next I'll get the Motes hookup and use my laptop and Tunerpro to take it to the next level.

19doug90

thats not a bad deal.

but honestly if you have the stock tune to work off of, you should be able to figure out the rest on your own. All you really need to know is where your cam/heads make power, and put more fuel and timing there. If you cam makes power to 6000, and the stock tune dies off at 4200, you probably need less fuel in the mid to low range, and obviously way more up top, and then go from there. You do your fuel before spark so you dont really need that ballparked in.

and with the stock chip at least all of the stuff for the lockup and such are pre-programmed

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

just fixed my buddies pcm for less lt1 tune. Had no timing in it at all, left all factory knock in place and drove like crap around town. The worst part was he called and told him what was going on with the car and the guy on the phone told him to burn it. BURN THE CAR over his bad program. I gave it timing removed the knock stuff and fixed the lean driveablity and now the car is fine. They are @$$ holes to deal with and just want your money seeing from his experience. Wouldnt even try once to fix it. And for ED the other tuner. Almost all tables were untouched except pe vrs rpm for wot. And after 3 tries was still missing fuel and lacking 40 hp @ the rear wheels. I didnt do tuning at the time and my friend did the fix on the 91 vette and did all the driveability it needed very bad due to tons of black smoke all the time. I have a similar combo here and if you pay for the prom and shipping I will get you started for free. Cant beat that. Just trying to help out a fellow thirdgen member. Lt1z350@bellsouth.net is the best way to get me quick. Just dont want to see someone throw away money around christmas and that is what it will be.

antman89iroc

True. I just didn't have the hardware or the experiance to get started. But I knew I had to get the timing up.

psy4s

Look,
I do not feel comfortable buying a ton of stuff to start programming a chip. I am more than willing to say I do not know the first thing about doing that. It could be fun to learn if I were working on a $900 car with a 100,000 mile motor. But I am working with a very expensive 383 that I built myself. I can have
Westers Garage burn a chip for me, Then I can go to their shop at a later date to have it tuned in by someone who has experiance.
http://westers_garage.eidnet.org/
That whole kid thing of being able to say,
"I put a tune on it" is just that much crap if you burn a hole in a piston doing it. Experiance is a good thing, but money burnt in a blown motor just so you can say you put a tune on it is just money thrown away! I can build a motor, I am not a computer programmer. I know my limits.
Don't let the guys that say "OH DO IT YOURSELF, IT'S EASY!" push you into something you are not ready for. When you talk about desoldering chips and installing a ZIF socket, It may be well worth your money to get a chip done with data logging software you can record what your car is doing as you drive, and they can make any changes for you. Experiance counts!

Lucid

iTrader: (4)

Dont let this guys fear dismay you from burning your own chips. Its true there is some risk involved and a learning curve. Burned three chips (all TPI cars) and have not burned a hole in a piston yet. Grumpy always said, give the engine what it wants. Besides, you can err on the side of caution and run the engine slightly rich on your tune and make sure you dont do a lean burn. (Start by tweaking the injector constant)

Some of the tuning is intuitive, like what 19doug90 said about how a cam changes your powerband and the changes you need to make to follow that powerband.

I am running a TPI and it has a cam that revs to like 6000rpm and what he said makes a lot of sense since my cam doesnt start making power until about 2000rpm. It seems to be running rich down low so i need to move the fuel and timing curve up. (If you can use Excel you can do this)

BTW, you really dont need to desolder anything on something like a TPI setup. The G1 adapter and G3 adapter are plug n play, and so are the ZIF. Matter of fact Moates inserts the ZIF for you so when you get it all you have to do is open the ECM up and insert the package in the right places.

Buying a premade chip is not a bad idea either, but it also involves risk. Engines vary in how the run, even if they are the same setup. Some want more timing, some less, it all depends on the animal. If you get a premade chip with timing thats too advanced/retarded for your setup, you are going to be doing the Netflix thing with your chip.

Iroczracer

My car is not a $900 dollar car,and defiantly don't have a 100,000 dollar engine. The parts are expensive enough, but still willing to take challenge of tuning my own combo!!

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

thats why its best to play with a bolt on or stock motor and then do your build down the road. YOu'll have some experience with tuning by then with that stock motor, and have an idea of what to do when the new setup is in.