Linson

after careful consideration, i opted to post this in the Vendor Review section rather than the Parts Review section, although i think this fits right in the middle.

before i get into my SSBC brake kit/customer service issues, here is a link to a thread i did on my last dealings with AS&M. this link is provided to show the emergence of a pattern. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/afte.../698431-m.html

now for my SSBC 1LE brake kit.

as many of us know, buying a brake kit that fits under factory 16" wheels can be a pain in the ***. one of the biggest reasons is that these kits are always made to order. so whether your dealing with Ed at Flynbye or (as i found out) dealing with SSBC by way of Jegs, the issues are the same. waiting for spindles, people not returning your phone calls, waiting for spindles, being told that your kit will be shipped "in two weeks," and in two weeks still waiting on spindles.

so, eventually, this is the kit that i got, SSBC A123-2 (1LE):

very nice looking. steal braided lines would have been nice though.

i had the kit professionally installed along with a wonder bar. the first thing i noticed was that the surface of the brake rotors coinsiding with the brake pad contact area seemed to be covered in a black material, making them look like they had been colored with a grease pencil. the second thing i noticed was that the kit did not achieve any discernable improvement in stopping power. this was late summer 2013. the owner of the brake shop and i aggreed that we would see if the discoloration dissapated & braking improved after a couple/few hundred miles. it did not. rainy fall weather set upon us, and i dont drive the Formula in shitty weather, and i was very fatigued by my dealings with SSBC just trying to get the brake kit, that i didnt contact them until recently. as the weather improved i decided to take the brakes appart and try to clean the rotors. the discoloration was impregnated into the rotors.

here are the pads that came with the kit:



and this is what they did to the rotors:



no mechanic nor anyone else i know has ever seen or heard of this. clearly, there is a problem with the pads. i called a local Auto Parts Store and oredered a set of brakes pads for my TTA (has 1LE) and what they gave me was not even close to the same dimentions as these pads. i contacted SSBC to see what they could do for me, and the customer service rep Dan Walter (not a bad guy so far) asked me to send him pictures. at first he began to tell me that some discoloration from the pads was normal, but after seeing the pictures he felt that it warranted further investigation from their Research and Development department. after a couple days he called me and said that they have changed vendors for brake pads, and that there may have been a defective batch from the vendor they used when my kit was made. Free new set of brake pads sounds like a reasonable start. (i had to have the rotors turned to remove the discoloration. one of the rotors was badly warped. but i got the rotors turned for free.) anyway, Dan said that they had the pads in stock and i should expect them at the end of the week or early the following week.

this is the part where i wait until the middle of the following week to call about the status of the parts (rather than feel like a PITA heel by calling after a couple days) and find out that hmmmm.... for some reason the pads didnt ship.

and as it turns out, Dan's (not a bad guy so far) inventory was inaccurate, and they dont have any pads in stock and he will contact me when he gets a timeline from the vendor regarding when they might get another shipment of those pads. ...i hope waiting for these pads isnt like waiting for spindles. my Formula has already been up on jacks for three weeks, and the weather has been nice so i'd like to drive it.

what i will do is see id i can locate a cross-reference part/pad locally and see if SSBC will comp me for having to buy the pads.

sucks.

visitor

Ok.. What's the big deal about discoloration? The issue is no improved stopping power...

Linson

the big deal about the discoloration is that when you pay 1300 some odd dollars for a brake kit with nickel plated rotors you should have the right to expect superior stopping ability and for it to look nice.

Linson

i honestly dont know how you've managed to exist here for this long and not get banned.

Linson

anywho, the part number that Dan gave me to cross-reference at the auto parts stores came back to NOTHING.

i did find out from another Customer Service Rep, Garrett, that they are simply 1988 Corvette front pads (this appears to be correct). Garrett also told me that SSBC would not reimburse me for pads that i bought on my own - that i would have to wait for them to send me the pads. the pads would cost me $118.00 to buy. Garrett says it'll probably be a week before they get more pads. i asked if waiting for pads was in any way similar to waiting for spindles - he said it wasnt. we'll see.

GCrites80s

1LE spec brakes are more about fade resistance than power. Pad compound is important. Big changes in stopping power assuming your old stuff was functioning fine requires big brakes and big, wide, sticky tires.

Linson

so, SSBC wont reimburse me for pads I get on my own.

and its going on three weeks and still no word on when/if they're getting more pads.

Jegs has assured me that they will refund my money if I send them back the whole kit, so that is what i'm going to do. today, i ordered a Baer 12" kit from Hawks. so, off with this SSBC kit, on with the Baer kit.

they(SSBC) shoulda just cut me a check for the cost of new pads.

Linson

I've ordered the Baer Kit from Hawks. Bruce says it should arrive early next week. i called and called before ordering the kit, because i prefer to work with Bruce personally because he really knows the ins and outs with these cars - plus i wanted to see if he would let me slide on the shipping (no dice.) his two employees Steve, and a female each took a message to have Bruce call me. anywho i did finally talk Bruce because he answered the phone, and i placed my order with him. over the course of the following two or three days i got separate calls from Bruce following up on the messages i had left to give me a call. on both occasions he didnt remember who he was calling at first, but its nice that he followed up when he was able to. most places anymore, it seems, dont follow up with customers for ****, even if there's money in it for them.

rusty vango

bruce is a alright guy, I have been buying my restoration parts from him for 5+ years now and ,the thing is. no matter what you need for a 3rd gen, he has it ,somewhere. I have learned there is a lady there ,"BJ" she is stellar,knows almost as much as bruce. I recommend hawks to anyone who is working on a 3rd gen. good products,fair prices,adequate customer service. hell, my 86 IROC would probably still be up on blocks in the back yard ,if it weren't for hawks

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

just so you know..thats not Nickel plate...(not the right color for nickel) just so ya know.
looks more like Zink. (but anyway)

visitor

Uhh.. no, I buy brakes to stop, not to stare at. The issue is you spent ANY money for a kit that did not help you stop better, more reliably. A "my brakes are a funny color" problem, really is quite juvenile, and indicates you perhaps chose the wrong kit, for the wrong reasons.
I should be banned because I have an opinion? Or are you arguing that a mid 80s gm was built well? Either one would be pure conjecture. If it makes you feel better, my camaro is built like crap too. Still love it.

visitor

Nickel would be a terrible plating for a rotor. I wonder what he's gonna do when his new brakes turn a funny color, then not pay him to change his pads on his own decision:

Linson

yeah - thats what every other brake kit (four and counting) that i've bought has been - zinc. but when i told Dan at SSBC that i had the rotors turned to remove the discoloration, he said i shouldnt have done that because it would ruin/remove the "nickel plating." he may have meant to say zinc plating... makes sense.

FWIW, the pics i posted of the discolored brakes were taken after being thoroughly cleaned with brake cleaner, wire brushes, and rags. before that they litterally appeared to be caked by a grease pencil.

Linson

okay... i'm not going to respond directly to the troll, visitor - if that is his real name.

but, if anyone else is actually folowing his logic in any way whatsoever, i will say this:

1) if you cannot appreciate the idea of wanting a "nice looking" brake kit, then i dont know what to tell you.
2) this brake kit also failed to deliver improved stopping ability, and the poor performance issue was directly related to the discoloration issue, i.e. defective brake pads.
3) i was going to keep the brake kit and just accept a set of new pads from SSBC, but the new pads were not forthcoming in any sort of timely fashion. and i didnt feel good about doing all the extra work, plus paying out an additional $120 to correct a defect on a brake kit i had already paid $1250 and patiently waited for a year ago. i think i was justified in demanding that SSBC take steps to correct the defect in their product. i also think that they showed good customer service in being willing to do so after so much time had passed.
4) asking that they reimburse me for buying new pads myself was a simple "dollar waiting on a dime" equation. they said the pads would arrive in a week. a week later when i called they still hadnt shipped. upon further investigation, it was discovered that they did not have any of the pads in stock, i would have to wait for them to recieve some from their vendor (approx. one week). past experience with this company told me that one week = one and a half months. so my calculation was okay, my car can sit on jack stands for another six weeks while we wait for more pads, OR you can cut me a check today, and i'll go get new pads right now. not suprised that they didnt want to go that route, but it certainly makes the most sense from a customer's prospective. FWIW, about three days ago, Dan called me to let me know that they were going to ship the pads finally. i thanked him for getting back with me and let him know that i had already purchased a different kit as Jegs had agreed to refund me for the SSBC kit.

so, in short, i wasnt happy with with the SSBC kit for, at least what i consider to be, justifiable reasons. and rather than go through a drawn out process of waiting on new brake pads, i took advantage of an opportunity to get my money back and switch to another company. i have been pleased with SSBC in the past, and would probably use them again in the future, just not for anything related to a third gen - too niche, and everything takes too long.

in a continuation of my famous luck, one of the Baer brake pads was broken upon arrival.

Bruce at Hawks had Baer send me out a set of four new pads which arrived three days later.

i kinda cant help but think that 99 out of 100 people would tend to agree or at least see the validity in my concerns and course of action.

visitor

I kinda think you're wrong. Seriously. Discoloration isn't a big deal, and no company will pay you to buy somebody else's product because you're impatient. Look dude, I'm legit sorry that you got a potentially defective set of pads. That sucks. That said, if you buy brakes to look at, you're buying for the wrong reasons. In the future maybe try wilwoods. Mine have been great so far.

Manic Z

iTrader: (1)

Unfortunately, you're wrong. Lots of people buy things for their hobby cars more for form over function. I myself upgraded to the C4HD brakes more to fill in my 17" iroc rims......the additional braking power was icing on the cake to me.

ploegi

Everyone builds their car for their own reasons. None of them are "wrong". If a cosmetic upgrade ALSO improves performance, well, more power to ya. Not everyone is building their car to race, or as a sidestreet weapon.

Linson

i honestly wouldnt take anything "visitor" says too seriously. he is not a legit poster or a legit TGO Member as far as i'm concerned, which is why he refuses to see any valid point that anyone makes - that would negate his ability to troll.

FWIW, the primary reason for the upgraded brake kit was in fact improved braking, not enhanced appearance. the fact is the highly unusual discoloration that was imediately evident was a symptom of a defect which also affected the kits ability to improve braking. having had a negative experience with the company on getting the brake kit in the first place, and then experiencing more of the same issues with getting the brake pads replaced, i opted out and went with a Baer brake kit, which is now on the car and i am very happy with.

not even saying that i wouldnt do business with SSBC again, just not on anything 3rd Gen related, as it would appear to be too niche of an application for which the wait times are going to be very long while they collect and build the parts, and in my experience, you will get jerked around by customer service.

8Mike9

Back to the SSBC kit...I'm just curious as yo why no one tried to clean them before use?

"i had the kit professionally installed along with a wonder bar. the first thing i noticed was that the surface of the brake rotors coinsiding with the brake pad contact area seemed to be covered in a black material, making them look like they had been colored with a grease pencil."

Or was this AFTER driving them a bit?

Linson

that is correct. the black residue was not on the brakes out of the box, but it was there AFTER the technician test drove the car.

Linson

as far as quality control and customer service being on the decline, i think i would chalk it up as follows:

1: i have bad luck. seems like if 1 in 10,000 units have a defect, i always wind up getting that 1 in 10,000. if a company's ordering/billing system is 9,999/10,000 fail safe, i always seem to somehow fall through the cracks. i'm like Django.

2: customer service varies: companies like Jegs and Summit have great customer service (they seem to want to make things right as quickly as possible so that you'll order from them again), but sometimes, when you have to deal with their vendors, or smaller, private companies, it can seem a bit sketchy on the customer service. dealing with vendors of brakes and brake parts seems to be particularly frustrating. when mistakes get made by a vendor, and it ends up costing you another week or more of your car being out of commission, it can quickly deflate your summer fun.

my bad luck aside, i do think that quality control has become an issue. take my brake upgrades for example: defective brake pads from SSBC. i send that kit back in favor of a Baer kit from Hawks - there were two mistakes in the spindle modification instructions, both of which cost me time and gas money.

Jim at AS&M could've probably handled it better when they charged someone else's $600 order onto my credit card. i think that he failed to realize that that was like the third thing to go wrong with my simple order of runner gaskets. last year when i was waiting for my SSBC kit, the customer service manager (i forget her name) was absolutely terrible. more recently, the guy Dan that i dealt with about the pads, and the guys at Hawks and Baer did everything that they reasonably could to correct any issues as soon as possible.

SlickTrackGod

Your technician "cooked" your brand new brakes. he did not properly heat cycle them and condition the rotors. In other words, he took it out and got on them way too hard and way too hot when they were brand new and not low heat cycled for the new metal to accept heat evenly. Rotors are now junk. Sorry to be the one to tell you that.

Do not let the same idiot install and test drive the new ones- it is 100% his fault. Most people are clueless as to how important it is to add a little heat to the rotors with a few initial "slowdowns" for 40 to 20 and then avoid stopping on the new rotors for a few blocks as you let them cool before parking it for two hours. I repeat this twice before I mildly drive it with only 25% max pedal pressure stps for the next 4 easy trips and allowing heat then total cooling in between trips. This guy went out and ****ing nailed your brand new rotors thinking he's mr race car driver and destroyed them....period. you are unfortunately naive and wrong to blame ssbc.

kurtis72

I got that exact same setup from SSB last year. One of the brackets wasn't tapped. Took several extra days to get the right tap, and then everything was ok. But I agree stopping power was only slightly better...