87CIZ

iTrader: (8)

I bought the tubular kmember and a-arms as a package and i am having the wheel set back problem on 2 vehicles. both ordered a year apart. The first one didn't matter it's a straight line car and runs skinnies all the time. My car on the other hand is being built like an autocross car and if i can not turn left or right without tearing off my ground effects, there is definitely a problem

t-top havoc

iTrader: (3)

Try this:
Measure the mount center-line on the frame

Then

Measure the ball joint from the center line difference

Would that show if there is a built-in set back?

Al Weyman

The regulations I have to run with wouldnt allow me to use the Watts.

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

what is this part good for ?

The Project

iTrader: (6)

Looks like a $650 ph-bar replacement.

Al Weyman

A Mustang?

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

im currently installing the UMI front Aarms that i got from a memeber here. And so far the spring install was a PITA! lol. Ive done it a bajillion times with the stock Aarms and im running 1.5 coils cut on moog 5664s (900lbin rate) and It was a PITA! i tried to put a poly isolator in between the spring and the Aarm to help protect the powdercoat and the spring fits soooo tight in the perch in the Aarm it was impossible.

Now I know the UMIs dont have a steering stop and the spohns dont either? so how do you fix this issue? I had to put the ears off the stock spindle for my BAER 13" brake system so the stock arms wouldnt even contact. Is it that big a deal not to have the steering stops? im only running 17x8" SLPs up front.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

ive always wanted a tubular k member and tubular a arms.... but i have heard too many fitment and rubbing issues.... so i just painted my stock a arms and installed poly bushing and spohn heavy duty ball joints... plus ive heard that they are not ideal for a daily driver... so far im happy with my control arms....

simz28

iTrader: (10)

I have this problem and im running their k member and control arms, my brother only has their k member and his wheels are centered perfectly

jb3829

iTrader: (1)

I installed the UMI A-arms this past winter and they weren't that bad to install with a internal spring compressor and a 900 ft/lb impact wrench. I called UMI about the steering stops and was told it is only a problem if the car is lowered......we'll see.....I havent been able to drive it yet

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

My Spohn Arms have a tab weld on the arm for a steering stop. One issue is they don't have bump stops. I plan on using strut mounted bump stops. I haven't gotten that far on my install yet though. I still can't even manage to get the K member aligned so it will bolt in.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Ok. Final work on my issues here.

Stock k member and arms and the tire was perfectly centerered.

Spohn K member and their a arms and the wheel was set back. i sold the arms and bought umi's

Just got done installing the umi's and I am happy to report the wheel again is centered in the well.

87CIZ

iTrader: (8)

the UMI's work with the spohn kmember well? that's something to think about. I took a picture for comparison yesterday showing that with the spohn a-arms the ball joint is set towards the back about an inch. I wish they would do something about it, but not likely. I'm hoping i can just sell my spohn parts to someone else and go a different direction. I put the factory kmember and a-arms on yesterday and have a full turning ability again so I know it isn't my car like they try to tell people.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

They work perfect. No turning issues for me and the wheel is centered! Where at in Ohio do you live?

87350IROC

iTrader: (2)

Bummer. Now you have a-arms that don't have spring indexes or steering stops.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

I have their newer design with spring indexes and bumpstops. I posted pics in other posts. No steering stops though. I made my own though out of swaybar bushings.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

UMI states that the Aarms dont actually need steering stops. They said there is a reason that spohn and UMI's arms dont have the stops ( i believe some other aftermarket Aarms dont have the stops either for other types of cars) reason UMI stated that the Aarms dont need steering stops is that the Steering boxes themselves have stops built into them.

I put the UMI arms on my bird and the BAER 13" brake kit and I did a test with the car off the ground. With the engine off i maxed out the steering in both directions... low and behold the steering box stopped turning at the exact point it did before. I can tell bc I have wear marks in the plastic wheel well covers. Apparently you dont need the stops. And im sure this cuts down on costs when manufacturing the Aarms.

Bump stops is a different story. I had them on my stock arms and cut them due to lowering the car... with the 900lb cut moog 5664s my bump stops never contacted the kmember... car was a daily driver for a while. It would be a good idea to weld a bracket on and put trim-able poly bump stop on from energy suspension. But what are the chances of bottoming out the front suspension when your running higher rate than stock springs.

customblackbird

iTrader: (15)

I heard that too about the tubular arms not being good as a daily driver... But that doesnt make sense to me. They are supposidly stronger than stock and they weight close to the same amount. Not to mention just about everyone and there mother now offers tubular upper and lower Aarms for just about every car out there. Cant seem to understand why they wouldnt work on a daily driver.


I also heard the same thing about tubular Kmembers... some have gotten cracked kmembers from road abuse but others have not. One bad part or failure causes alot of hype pretty quick. I would say that tubular parts would have no issues on a street car as long as u dont run over any curbs or honda sized potholes.

Im also selling my reinforced stock Aarms with poly bushings in the classifieds if anyone is interested.

Mkos1980

iTrader: (8)

Custom, I just checked outside and like you with car on the ground, my tires do not contact the arm at full left or right turns. I removed my "makeshift" steering stops lol. I have stock Formula rims with BAER's kit as well.

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

i wounder if sombody goofed. you know the Tube A arms sweep forward. about 1 1/2 inch.

now take them out of the jig. weld on the sway bar tabs (in/on the wrong side)
cuss your new? day dreaming? OR. its not your reg job at Spohn.

and what you come out with is a A arm with a 1" to 1 1/2"inch rear set front end.

just kick that around for a few sec

look at the photos posted..

articwhiteZ

iTrader: (56)

SEE ABOVE PICS .. now do a swap of the sway bar link pads. install stickers facing wrong way also.. what do you get... and note: the pic shows the bottom of the above A arms.....Beer

i make Jet Eng parts. for any and every thing that flys.. any place in the world.
i can tell you screw ups hapn...most of the time they will not kill you..just look bad...

but i would say...some body made few facing the wrong way....

Beer....or it could be iv had one to many tonight...Beer

87CIZ

iTrader: (8)

I'm in Middletown, between Dayton and Cincinnati

jmd

iTrader: (4)

Well said.


Someone refresh my memory here; When a new K is swapped in, how much can it be shifted fore / aft / laterally? It seems like a thread here a bit ago where someone was figuring out why their tires weren't fitting right and they determined the K was shifted from previous damage and/or repair?

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (15)

factory k-members, as well as aftermarket ones, have alignment pics that locate the k-member in the car, there is a minimal amount of play, if any at all. However, if the car has sustained chassis damage from an accident, things could be tweaked enough to cause fitment issues of the k-member, or moving it around enough to possible cause a issue.

I agree with the others too, and find it difficult to understand why people who have issues have never taken the time to measure the parts, side by side, and see whats wrong.

DeathStarr89

iTrader: (1)

Spohn K member and stock A arms here, stock IROC 16's and no weird rubbing problems.

The install wasn't the most fun thing but it eventually bolted in.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Anyone get this one figured out?

I'm running Spohn A-arms on a stock k-member. My 16" formula rims cause tire rub to my fender on a full turn.

I'm tempted to just pick up some caster plates and move the strut forward, but I'd like to know why these are wrong.

-- Joe

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

They do not fit like stock... many people have had problems and Spohn has been informed and won't do a dam thing to correct it except steal people's hard earned money...

I put my stock ones back on, problem solved...
if you can forget the thousand dollars spent on parts, labor, alignments, etc...

Rafael

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

My guess would be the spohn ones are different geometry than stock. I used spohn ones on their k member with no issues. Seems spohns are like BMR if you want them to work it needs to be used on their k member too.


Posted from Thirdgen.org App for Android

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

They guy who bought my Spohn a arms had a spohn k member and after installing the a arms in his Spohn k member, he reported that his wheels were moved forward in the wheel well... not in the stock location again... go figure...

I had been eyeing those a arms for years and I finally had a little extra cash and bought them... what a waste...

Rafael

Tony V

iTrader: (5)

Spohn K-member with PA Racing coil-over A-Arms here.

Good fit, no problems. Mind you this is drag racing only car. The sharpest turn I make is at the end of the track back on to the return road.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I spoke with Dan @Spohn today and he said he had no idea what might be going on. He asked that I take some pictures and send them over.

I'll take some tonight and ship 'em Spohns way and see what they say.

-- Joe

RevItUpZ28

iTrader: (1)

I have a Racecraft road-race k-member and Spohn Del-sphere coilover style A-arms. When I first put them on, they did the exact thing as everyone else described....tire way too close to the rear of the front wheel well. By lengthening the rear rod end out, it brought it back to center. After all of the posts about the issue, I pretty much knew what I would likely be getting into, but these looked slightly stronger than the racecraft arms due to the "A" shape versus the Racecraft arms "V" shape. If I had to do it all over again I would have just bought the racecraft a-arms instead of having to take the spohn arms off the car 4 times to adjust them by trial and error to get them the right length.

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

I had the non adjustable, pre welded wrong at the factory model.

Yeah... they asked me for pictures too... sent thrm, and the link above with more pics and other members problems...

...crickets....

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Sent Spohn some pics. The buff-primer one is the car as it sits right now, the other one (black fender) is before the body work. (that aftermarket fender got replaced cuz the fit was awkward).

-- Joe

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

Please be sure and post what, if anything, they say... or do...

Rafael

KITT1983

iTrader: (3)

how are umi lower a arms/control arms and umi k members?

FRMULA88

You are replacing major components of the front end suspension which also involves removing the struts, tie rods, etc. to install these new parts. IF you are replacing components but leaving the rest of the same 25+ year old worn out parts, then wonder why nothing fits then shame on the installer.

Wheel alignment (position) can be corrected with the factory upper strut mounts, which should also be inspected for bearing wear and replaced.

OP states his stock A-arms are modified, modified for what purpose, to fit a wider wheel? He them blames the aftermarket parts which are based on OEM geometry.
OP also had a shop do all the work, so why did the shop not contact Spohn to resolve the issue? Seems to me someone is not telling the whole story? Either OP did not want to pay the shop more money to solve the problem, or the shop does not know what they are doing.

I replaced the entire front suspension on my car by myself in my garage including new Spohn K-member and A-arms with spring perches

I had the front end checked and adjusted by an alignment shop and it is absolutely within factory specs.

I did have an issue with a tie rod hitting the k-member, but this was with the car in the air and trying to turn the wheel full locked to the left, however that is not going to happen in reality because with the tires on the ground the tires turn lock to lock no issue because there are clearance slots in the k member for the tie rods. I contacted Spohn and spoke to STEVE SPOHN personally about this and he confirmed same.

I think they are a stand up company and Steve is a really nice guy.


You cannot run wider wheels or tires and expect an aftermarket part (which is based on stock geometry) to somehow magically allow you to NOT have clearance issues you had with "modified stock a-arms" . if they are modified they are not STOCK.

If OP was a DIYer and really had a mfg. issue or defect he should have sent the parts back for a refund or to be corrected.

However OP says he paid a shop and it appears they did the job wrong so shame on OP for not going after the shop to make it right for him. Most of the time it is simply installation /alignment error.

Good luck.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I don't know about the OP's problem, I just know I bought a set of these and I have the SAME problem. My car is as close to a 'frame off' restoration as you can get. Spohn A-ARMS, new moog stock height springs, new struts, mounts, etc. Factory wheel and tire combo.

However, even if someone was replacing just one component and leaving the rest alone, I'd expect it to work exactly like the part replaced did. the measurements should be the same. If you change a single part, and something hits that used to clear the part is not the same size. The rest of the car didn't magically change size overnight.


While I'd think so too, Spohn said it cannot. So.

Even an average thirdgen owner can wrench well enough to install A-arms. I'm sure the shop the OP used installed them, and delivered the car to the owner. It's not the shops fault that a brought in part failed to fit. The shop is not a Spohn reseller/installer.

I don't have a problem with Steve or Spohn. I'd just like to know why the a-arms don't fit.

Why? I won't. If they can't be fixed I'll throw them in the dumpster. I'm hoping Spohn has some advice to correct the issue. If not, I'll junk 'em like I do any part that fails to perform.

There is no alignment. It's two straight bolts. no adjustment. No shimming. The centerline of the ball joint is fixed. It's a triangle.

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

He said thirdgen's don't have the front wheel centered in the opening and asked if I had an aftermarket k-member, big tires, lowering springs/spindles, etc.

He said caster plates won't fix the problem.

I think I figured out what is wrong last night though. I need another thirdgen to measure to be sure, so I'll reserve speculation until I measure a factory car.

-- Joe

luvofjah

iTrader: (2)

My tires were moved back with the spohn a arms, and rubbed in the back when turning.
Didn't have the problem with the stock a arms...

Regardless of if they were centered, the spohn a arms moved the wheel to a non stock position causing the problem...

Rafael

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

anesthes just out of curiosity how come you didn't get UMI's a-arms? The new version of their a-arms look really good (I have their old version, which lacked adjustable steering stop, bump stop, spring index, and I have poly but now they offer the delrin bushings, and also the OD of the tubing is now 1.5" instead of 1.25" which was the older version).

fireturd350

iTrader: (8)

I would be interested to see measurements. I think that would be very useful for people that are going to pay a shop to install them. I'm thinking the problem might be ball joint position problem. Can someone with the spohn problems put a straight edge on the outer bushing surface on each side and give measurements from each side to the ball joint center line pin straight across. Then we could compare against the stock aarms. That way people could know by measuring the a arms before they are installed if the tires are going to move.


Posted from Thirdgen.org App for Android

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Opportunity I guess. Spohn's arms fell into my lap for a good price.

If I have to change them again I'll probably go coilover. There is only so much dancing with the springs I'm willing to do.

-- Joe

FRMULA88

How do you replace the arms without removing the brakes, spindles spring and struts?
This alone disrupts the alignment.

Wheel position ( camber caster, toe in & out) can be adjusted via the upper strut mounts.. and a COMPENTENT Alignment shop can do that. If you bothered to take it apart yourself you would see the mounting holes are slotted... these slots allow for adjustment.

also, if you removed the strut mount brackets there is a strong change those were
re-installed incorrectly and that would severely alter the wheel geometry.

I restored / modified my entire car for the most part by myself so I know what I am talking about.

It seems there are more satisfied Spohn customers than not.

Again if there is a problem you should talk to Spohn and they should make it right or at least help you figure out what is wrong. And by talk to I mean pick up the TELEPHONE and talk to them.. you will accomplish a lot more this way than by email.

Also most any shop will not install costumer supplied parts... for this very reason.
good luck.

//<86TA>\\

iTrader: (15)

When u change the aarms you dont have to move the strut mount and th ere is no adjument anywhere else that will more the wheel back anywhere near as far as they are in the two cases being discussed here . If the strut it remover from the spindle a small adjustment in alignment may be needen but never to this extreme. This issue has come up enough times over the years that something is not right

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Well if someone just replaces the arms, you simply undo the nut and release the ball joint. The ball joint is a taper and is not adjustable. Then you remove the two bolts holding the arm to the k-member, and the end link.


They are only slotted one way, for camber adjustment. Caster adjustment would be done with aftermarket mounts, which offer a second set of slots in the other direction. But you knew that, right?

Good job! I'm on my 6th or 7th thirdgen. I've been building these and other cars for over 20 years. I not an idiot.

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I thought about caster plates to try and move the wheel slightly forward, but Spohn is right about that not helping the problem. If you figure out the math of how much the strut will move forward, then calculate how far the spindle will actually move we're talking like 1/8"-1/4" if that. The spindle in this case is off by I'd guess at least 1.5".

You would probably get more movement unbolting the k-member and trying to pry it forward. But still not enough to cure the problem.

I know how to fix them, but I'm not taking them out to modify them. If they come out they are going in the dumpster

-- Joe

hellz_wings

iTrader: (2)

What 86TA said.. The strut mounts and the strut to spindle bolts (a more so if you have adjustable ones) are the only things that would mess with an alignment (other than ofcourse adjustable a-arms). Wheel should be centered if everything else was unchanged.. Maybe driving around the block might make it settle or something? I dunno.

What is the prob? I'm actually really curious lol..

cosmick

What we need is the front wheels moved forward about an inch, as the more the front suspension compresses, the farther rearward the front wheels move. Wheels behind the center of the openings looks really bad. But slightly forward looks perfect. Meanwhile, are we all sure that nobody installed the left arm on the right and the right arm on the left?

cosmick

All you need is a ball joint separator tool (&quot;pickle fork&quot, leave the spindles bolted to the struts, and leave the struts bolted to the upper bearing things. You'll need an inside style coil spring compressor, but the spindles can stay attached to the car. And this saves having to disconnect the outer tie rod ends and brakes. Why make extra work unnecessarily?