Mike Davis dynoed his ZZ4 motor with LT4 HOT cam and fully upgraded TPI setup (ported Edelbrock base, AS&M extruded LTRs, Fully ported plenum, and 58mm TB). I loaned Mike my MiniRam. We installed it. He went back to the dyno. The only thing that changed was the PROM. Each PROM was tuned for the setup. The results were astonishing.

The upgraded TPI setup had more torque and horsepower up to 4800rpms. As an example, at 3600rpms the MiniRam was down on horsepower and torque to the tune of 45lb/ft and 29hp. At 4800rpms both setups pulled even. After 4800rpms the MiniRam sprung to life. At 6300rpms the MiniRam was way ahead of the TPI setup with 39ft/lb and 48hp.

Peak to Peak horsepower gain by installing a MiniRam was 30hp (TPI max at 4800 and MR max at 6200).

If the MiniRam provided such a big increase in horsepower at 6300rpms with the ZZ4 L98 aluminum heads then imagine the numbers with a set of AFR190s. Remember, this is with an LT4 HOT cam which shifts the powerband higher. So, this isn't a stock type powerband.

Full details on Mike's dyno runs can be found on his webpage. The specific link to the MR tests can be found here ....
Fully upgraded LTR setup vs. TPIS MiniRam

For those who haven't visited Mike's page you should check it out. He has A LOT of stuff there. Extremely good source of information. Big thanks to Mike for doing the tests and big thanks to Dave Zug for helping out. Its this type of information that is extremely cool. From Mike's page you can also see that he is in the process of installing a set of AFR190s. Thus, I have a feeling more Dyno runs are on the way.

Tim

------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

 

This is the overlay that tells the whole story.

"The Graph below shows two of the MiniRam runs plotted directly against the last Hi-Flow dyno run" - MD



Tim

------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

 

TRAXION, Great post! I love seeing real numbers. I guess the trade off is pretty apparent. Do you want torque or horsepower. What are the chances a Super Ram can get thrown in the mix? That would be a great test. I wonder if it would just split the two down the middle.

------------------
1992 Camaro Z28; Engine:383 w/Edelbrock RPM ported heads. Lunati Solid Roller Cam 224/232 .502/.502, Fluidampr, 1.5 Roller rockers, 30 lb injectors. Haltech E6GM DFI, SLP 1 3/4" headers, 4" Mufflex, T56, 4.10. Super Ram.

Double-Pump This! EFI Rules!

Definition:

NOPI: n. 1. import 2. Sticker worth 47 hp 3. import with 6" exhaust tip
antonym: smallblock

 

I can tell this is going to be a long thread!


Love seeing real world numbers!

------------------
-86 IROC
Vortech Supercharged 406
-=ICON Motorsports=-
"Well, you're equipped to be a prostitute, but you're not one, are you?"

 

The cam obviously favors a higher RPM band. The cam was originally designed for the short runner LT4 intake, therefore the results are going to be more conducive with the short runner Mini Ram. How about a test with a milder cam? ie, a ZZ4 cam. A cam mathced-to-an-intake-test would be more ideal than a large cam with any intake. I agree that the Mini Ram is a superior HP producer thatn any long runner TPI setup, but this test is too bias towards a short runner manifold. Oh well, these are the posts this board needs, more to come


------------------
Hybrid Black 5.7L 5 Speed
'95 Competition Yellow Corvette Coupe ZF6

 

No SuperRam test. Sorry.

Blak92, I have actually been one of those people saying that the LT4 HOT cam is slightly too big for a TPI setup. I agree with you. However, many people are running this cam with a fully upgraded TPI setup and think that their setup pulls all the way to 6500. That's just not true. The major goal (at least from my perspective) is to see what an intake change would do on a cammed and headed car. A significant number of TPI guys are running the HOT cam in their LTR setup (one of the reasons is cost). However, this cam (IMHO) does like more intake. There are many ways around that (both cheap and expensive).

This test is NOT saying that the MiniRam is better. This test is NOT saying that the TPI is better. It is just a test. Draw your own conclusions for the type of setup that you want.

Tim

------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

 

Well that made my mind up. I'm not spending 1000 bucks on the mini-ram because my engine rarely every goes above 5000 RPM. The 10 HP increase is REAALY not worth it to me High flow intake, runner and 52 mmm TB.. here I come !! lol

------------------
92 Z28 5.7
------------------
Ported stock heads, XR270HR-10 cam, TES headers
Crane AFPR, Flowmaster catback, MSD ignition
#24 SVO injectors, 1LE aluminum driveshaft.

Best ET 13.3@107 mph

Click here to see my car at Truspeed.org
Check out Truspeed
Check out the Bin Archive

 

Blade - good to see you made your mind up. But, where are you getting 10hp? Its 31 rear wheel hp.

Tim

------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

[This message has been edited by TRAXION (edited March 05, 2001).]

 

I wonder how different it would be with semi siamesed runners. Maybe that would shift the peak hp for the TPI up closer to 5500-6000 rpms. And maybe it would gain 15-20 hp in the process. I also wonder what kind of torque, if any, would be lost.

------------------
1991 Z28 - 350 TPI, T56, McLeod street clutch, ported plenum & runners, AFPR, Holley Annihilator ignition box and wires, Hooker shorty headers w/o AIR, Flowmaster muffler, homeade ram-air, SSM subframe connectors, Kenny Brown STB, Global West steering box brace, Steve Spohn adjustable torque arm and T56 crossmember

 

Well, I was down at AZ-Speed and Marine about 2 weeks ago, and I talked to the owner. He showed me around the place and also showed me a motor he had built for himself, it was a 420 SB with a LTR TPI setup on it, made over 800 Ft pounds on the juice, but all the motors he showed me, he wasnt using his Semi-siamesed on any of them......

 

Good post Tim. From what I see from the test (which I already knew) the decision should be made according to how you plan on using your car. Are you looking for tire shredding torque around 3 grand, or are you looking for something that continuously pulls like a ***** to 6400? Personally, I like the MR because when I race, the 3000-4800 RPM range is only seen in low gear, and with the 700s 1st gear, who needs more. When I shift from low to 2nd, and 2nd to D, the tach doesn't go much lower than 4800. Just like cams, intakes have tradeoffs too, the key is selecting which application best fits your individual needs.

------------------

 

I have a dyno of my ZZ4 cam, ported L98 aluminum heads, ported stock TPI intake, and SLP 1 5/8" headers. It made 280 HP and 380 TQ at the rear wheels. I am trying to find the dyno graph now so I can scan it.

------------------
West Coast GM Shootout 2001!
1991 Camaro Z28
5.7L 5-Speed (originally 305)
13.25 @ 107.18 MPH
Southern California
Member: SoCal 3rd Gen F-Bodies
Webmaster: SoCal F-Bodies
-=ICON Motorsports=-

 

Well here are more real numbers.
These 2 dyno graph are from my 383 85 vette.
Nothing was changed not even the prom. I was running the 85 ECM with a breathless chip. Ran good in both applications. basic rundowns. 383,LPE219 cam,
throughly ported by LPE edlebrook heads(very,very close to AFR specs),1 5/8 headers,58tb,bolton on's....
here is the superram dyno.

My best I believe was a 12.0X.

Here is the miniram dyno, nothing else was changed but the intake.


my best run right after th swap was a 11.98.

Since then I have to done minor mods. Upgraded to 1 3/4 header LT1 style B&B exhaust,36lb injectors,and the 7730 EMU upgrade with programming by self(thanks to thirdgen.org "prom-diy" help as well
I have since ran a best 11.66
I think the miniram works well with the 6 speed. no dont get me wrong it works well on both but with the autos the SR seems t oshine a tad more since the big rpm drops dut to the 700r4 tranny gearing. I was shifting at 6500. my RPM's would only fall to 5100. Still above peak of the SR. with a auto my rpm would probrably drop to 38-4000.

Dennis


------------------
85 vette,383,miniram,ZF6,4.10's..best ET 11.66@1187.00 60' 1.62
w/100HP nirous 11.05@127
http://geocities.com/bowtie8

EDIT: Trying to fix Geocities pictures.
Chuck

[This message has been edited by Chuck Everly (edited March 05, 2001).]

 

Not shure why my pics will not load.
Here is the urls.
dyno of 383 superram.
http://www.geocities.com/bowtie8/383dyno.gif

dyno of 383 minimram
http://www.geocities.com/bowtie8/dynomini.gif

Hope these work.
Dennis


------------------
85 vette,383,miniram,ZF6,4.10's..best ET 11.66@1187.00 60' 1.62
w/100HP nirous 11.05@127
http://geocities.com/bowtie8

 

Bowtye8, nice numbers. It looks like you had a good combo either way with both intakes, but the Miniram lent itself to more HP after you continued your mods.

Oh, and you need to fix your sig. 1187 MPH is damn nice for the 1/4 mile


[This message has been edited by Kevin91Z (edited March 05, 2001).]

 

The SuperRam looks like the clear winner for a street car... Pretty broad power curve w/ alot more average torque than the miniram it looks like.

------------------
Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray

 

Bow,

Man - why does your curve fall off so early? Seems to me like there is a problem. Even with an extra 33ci I wouldn't expect your curve to be falling off at 5750rpms. Was it because of the small exhaust? Tuning? Or, did you have a valvetrain problem (bad lifters, etc.)?

Tim

------------------
TRAXION's 1990 IROC-Z
Best Time = 12.244 @ 112.51mph (1.778 60' / 7.819@88.32mph in the 1/8)
All Natural. No Force. No Drugs. Stock Bottom End. Stock Body Panels.
Gunning for NA 11's with bigger cam, bigger stall, and bigger exhaust.
-=ICON Motorsports=-
Moderator: PROM board at thirdgen.org

 

Hey Dennis.. Is the WIN version of the dynojet-viewer freeware? I have the DOS version.. I have a web page of dyno runs to post for the 383 (FTP is down now) and really would like to extract the values from the data, insted of just getting a line. Does the WIN version do this? I have been using a set of calipers on the printout to collect the data so far :-(

I have a few graphs that would add flavor to this thread... when the FTP is back up, I'll post them.

Thanks.


------------------
~Dave Z
89 Iroc STREET TORQSTER
www.delanet.com/~tgp

[This message has been edited by TPI383 (edited March 06, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by TPI383 (edited March 06, 2001).]

 

Trax
Not shure why my both o fmy dyno feel off Quick. At the track I shift at 65-6600. I know this is pst my dyno numbers but I tried plenty of times shifting at 62-6400 and the ET and MPH fell back 2/10th's
The higher I could strech the RPM the lower my ET and MPH went up.
Last lear I set my best ET with my 3.45's not shifting in to 4th. My RPM thru the traps was 6800. I ran a 11.8 then at like 117 . This was my best at that time. I then tried a 4th shift and fell to 11.9 and lost 1 mph. I tried again staying in thirs and 11.8 @117.
I know the miniram is just loving making power up there but my valvetrain (hydrolic roller) wont go that high. I have not touched my valve train since the 383 install so 2 years as it sits. So that was with both dynos falling off early. I cant complain cause my ET I am happy with.

TPI 383
My buddy passed along the dos version to me a while back. I was trying to look for the winpep veiwer because I copied the dyno files for my 383 sr setup. I probrably lost that disk now but at that time the winpep viewer was not available yet. I havent checked the dyno site lately. Give me a mail if you find something out.
Dennis
For some of you with broadband I have few vids here.
http://bowtye8.tzo.com/hovmovies/racin
US41c.AVI was my last run of the year.
This was at the MFBA get together at US41 in nov 2000. They let me come with some of my camaro buds

Had a great time!!!


------------------
85 vette,383,miniram,ZF6,4.10's..best ET 11.66@119.00 60' 1.62
w/100HP nirous 11.05@127
http://geocities.com/bowtie8

[This message has been edited by BOWTYE8 (edited March 06, 2001).]

 

If you're gonna spin the engine up past 6000 rpms, I'd look into the Hydra Rev kit from www.airflowresearch.com I have one on mine, for engine insurance, even tho I plan on shifting at 5500. Its cheap, too.

 

And as promised: http://www.delanet.com/~tgp/89iroc/Dynospage.html

Check it out.. If you have dyno data and drag run RPM recordings yourself.. go to the page and mail them to me.. I need them to test some software and it will help. Thanks.

oops - I forgot to write the flavor stuff here. The dyno runs are in:
L98-383, 700-r4, 3.23, 9.8:1, ZZ4 cam, stock base, large tubes, MAP car, stock intake y-pipe, 1 3/4 headers, cat-back, 58mm TB, 92 octane. The car runs 12.90 off the juice. With only 270 RWHP and shifting at 5200 rpm the car is perfect on the street.. but tell folks at the track its a 383 and it falls short of expectations. all depends on what you are after.. I think its perfect ;-) ever see 270 hp lift a wheel? heh heh... well, almost ;-P


[This message has been edited by TPI383 (edited March 08, 2001).]

 

Great post.

Traxion, I noticed on Mike Davis's page his Diacom runs and his spark counts going down the track.

I had the same problem until I played with the inital timing. I still get 7 degrees retard on a full throttle run, and don't know how much hp that is worth.

Looking at Mike's Diacom run, his spark counts tell me that he is getting timing retard, and probably has more power in that combo.

 

I wonder how horsepower you'd lose on a stock ZZ4 and stock TPI?

 

Best. Necro. Thread. Revival. Ever.

 

14 years, 5 months and 8 1/2 days. What's the record?

 

Go ahead. Be the champion.

 

Kudos on the revival, I found some useful information!