TA

iTrader: (1)

I am very interested, what parts/combinations/modifications would you use to get this car into the 12's?

It seems some of the people on this board are a bit confused, and think they have Vortech manifolds on their TBI 3rd gens, or that you put a fuel pump in a TBI to TPI conversion and get additional horsepower, not mentioning running a solid lifter cam with stock Vortech heads.

I have a stock 88 GTA, and would like to know what combinations really work, especially if they are cost effective. I have some combos in mind already, but I came here to seek wiser, more expereinced people. So far, it's been pretty disappointing.

Thanks in advance!

JPrevost

You aren't making any sence. There are plenty of experienced people on the board that have replied with proven combo's. Take it or leave it, I'm running a stock HYD. flat tap cam with 212 and 222 duration with less than .460 lift on both intake and exhaust. So you don't think I've got a vortec (not vortech) manifold on my TBI 3rd gen?...if that's what you think maybe you should take a look at the pictures on my website.
You're a waste of this boards time so either open your ****ing eyes and read/learn or shut the **** up and go away.

TA

iTrader: (1)

Maybe the term in your neck of the woods is arachic, but a flat tappet cam is also known as a solid lifter cam. A Hydraulic lifter has a dish to it, and is an entirely different animal, so to me, you have just contradicted yourself again. Perhaps the prevalence of roller cams has confused this use of the term. But you have had a very surly attitude towards me from the start. TBI was rated 150 HP in 1988, uprated to 170HP in '89, according to "The Firebird Redbook, by Peter C. Sessler. Sense is spelled with an s, not a c. And you are so proud that your throttle body comes with two FREE giant restrictions right in the middle of the airflow into the airhorn. We can go on and on at this, but I suggest that we don't. I'm sure it's pretty boring for the rest of the board. (maybe it's not?) If we look for reasons to disagree, that is what we'll find.

You were the one that started with the insults. Maybe because I'm not a regular poster, a stranger in a small town, or I don't live in awe of the TBI system, you felt justified in attacking me, and I didn't like it much. I did not come on this board to irritate anybody, but you chose the tone, I have just mirrored it back to you, and you haven't liked what you have seen, have you?

iroc22

It wasnt rated at 150hp in 1988. The L03 was always rated at 170hp.

And you actually think that you wont gain horsepower from swapping say a 100,000 mile fuel pump to a brand new high flow one? Mannnn

JPrevost

My apoligy for getting on your back but I hate it when people are misinformed. I really have a hard time believing that 150hp 88 is not a misprint. The engine, heads, cam, block, TB unit, and injectors are all the same as the 89-92 L03. So if you come here and tell me they're different then please sir (semi sarcastic cause it's my personality) tell me where that extra 20hp came from in 1 year. Oh, and in 88 they had a different ecm compared to the 89-92 but it's impossible that the ecm is at fault in this case. If it was just the ecm then it would have to be a timing and or fuel problem which would cause either premature mechanical failures or failed emissions testing. That's the science and politics behind it, now if you look at the actual performance in reality it's even more odd that 88 would be rated at 150hp since they had the same 1/4 stats with only the year being the difference.
You thought the L03 was an identical engine to the LB9, which it isn't, and then you said that TBI was never and will never be a performance intake system...explain Holley pro-jection.
Considering Holley is a VERY well off company and not to mention they dreamed up the the whole TBI system for GM but GM screwed them and went with Rochester...I'd say they know what they're doing. I love the simplicity and whenever somebody lays smack on the TBI I'd like to hear their reasons.
The whole flow issue was something else that I really didn't enjoy reading. TPI was designed for low rpm torque operation (hence long tubes), TBI doesn't have this dediacated design "flaw". I use the word flaw because in most cases performance is never measured with shifts below 4000rpm .
There are two very distinct intake design differences in the fuel atomization systems. TBI uses the air velocity between the TB bore and blades to shear the fuel into a fine mist. Depending on the intake and offset of TBI (2 barrel only) you can actually gain a lot of low end considering it isn't just a super fine distribution but it's also computer accuracy. The WOT performance isn't as good as a carb only because the injectors just don't have the fuel pressure to make a perfect spray. It's like a super soaker, the more pressure and the smaller the opening at the end the better. This is why it's better to use small injectors and higher fuel pressure, better yet, use a vacuum AFPR and custom tuning .
About the 2 injectors being in the way of the air...that's only somewhat true. If you notice, there is no reason why air should be entering from the top...this is a stock air cleaner design "flaw." A drop base without the spacer ring or a non-drop base air cleaner allow the air to come in from the perimeter, not the top. Carbs love velocity stacks...TBI hates drawing air from above the injector pod. The quick and EASY fix is to just double up on the injector pod spacer to raise the injectors out of the bore.
I don't really follow the whole frankenstien TBI system name. Do you mean to tell me that any carb car that goes to a larger carb and bigger intake manifold is a frankenstien carb system? Or how about TPI and the mini-ram, accel super-ram, Arizona S&M setups, are those all frankenstien as well? I didn't do anything different, bigger intake and bigger TB unit with larger injectors. That's ALL I did for the intake and a 102mph trap speed isn't too shaby do you think? If that isn't proof that TBI isn't crap then I don't know what is.

TA

iTrader: (1)

Thank you J. For the Appology, and I appologize to you for letting my irritation get the better of my good sense. It's seems easy to get off on a bad foot with strictly written dialog. It's hard to read sarcasm from print.

For instance, I have never considered a "Frankenstein" system to be negative, quite to the contrary, I used to build Roadrace motors that made 2.16 HP per Cubic inch, (gasoline, no power adders, carbs) and I got my butt handed to me a number of times by "Frankensteins".

The Firebird Red book does not appear to me to be a typo, because it states in the engine options list 150 hp, in the text on another page giving option rundowns, and in the next section on '89's that they were uprated to 170 HP. Just because it's printed doesn't mean it's correct, but the '88 TBI had a smaller diameter exhaust pipe after the cat and smaller diameter muffler inlet than the TPI car. 20 hp? Comparison to another TBI car? My facts are pretty limited here, and the Red book is the only place I found listing these HP figures in print.

And for Iroc22, no the fuel pump would not give you HP unless the system is starving. Your pattern and and volume of fuel, which would effect power output, are determinded by the pressure, which is set by the regulator. Unless you change regulators, changing the fuel pump would have zero effect on pressure or injector output. The TPI system is a high pressure return system, the TBI system is a medium pressure non return system. They just require different fuel pumps. Sorry if you got clipped in the sniping.

iroc22

No agghhh i dont think u understand what i am trying to say here. Things dont work as well as they used to when they first rolled off the assembly line. The stock GM fuel pumps are crap and they like to go early. I'm saying when he changes the fuel pump from the original one to a new one he's gonna see a power increase!

grumpygreaseape

jeepers, you girls are still at this?

Teal Shark

HAPPY NEW YEAR! Who loves ya baby?!?! Enjoy them!

Sitting Bull

Hey, you love me! Hah, hah

RaGe

hey jp,

you url to your website does not work

I have a 90 Formula with 305 TBI.

I have been looking to do a carb swap.

According to you it is possible to use an edelbrock rpm intake with the stock TBI... or better yet an upgraded TBI...

I would like some more info on this as it is definatly an option i would consider... If I can get close to CARB performance with my TBI with the same or less money I would gladly do it.. I am also not afraid to tweek the ECM and buy a prom burner...


rage@advnet.net

iroc22

Go over to the TBI board...there's a lot of knowledgable people over there.

iroc22

Hey TA you wanna see the real differences between the LG4 heads and L03 heads go to my other post: https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...threadid=92996 check it out