Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Anybody ever run these UMI SFCs? First time I've sen the passenger side a welded 2 piece, instead of a bent/formed 1 piece.

quadgoat

iTrader: (1)

I've got them on my car, I bought them when they did the GP a few months back. I like them quite well. Granted I don't have anything to compare them to really, but the install was easy, and they fit pretty darn good! I welded them in myself. My personal opinion is that either those or Spohn's are about the best out there as far as fitment and strength.


-Paul

Wadebryant

They're going onto my IROC this weekend.

pdturbo

Do these have any clearance issues with a dual CAT setup?

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

You could have just looked on UMIs website,,,,

'Application:
1982 - 1992 Chevrolet Camaro (All Models)
1982 - 1992 Pontiac Firebird (All Models)
(May not fit 1988-1992 models with dual catalytic converters)
(Will NOT fit convertibles)'

Jay

iTrader: (2)

I'd say they likely will not clear the dual cat setup without modification. I have to change mine with the front mount to clear the SLP headers. Drivers side is on, had to bend the tabs somewhat to get the gap closed to be able to weld them in. I'm going to go back and add some pieces of angle steel to secure them better. You can't really weld them along the rockers since they sit off them.
That photo makes them look thicker than they are.

TransAM Joe

iTrader: (6)

These are the best sub frame connectors on the market for our cars, hands down. They have clearance for just about any exhaust because of the two piece design, just have to be creative.

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

I doubt you could consider a pieced together set of bars, better than 1 piece, formed ones. Lets face it, it looks home made.

I dunno if the KBDD is still around (KB hit some hard health issues, IIRC) butthe DDs are/were the best design out there.

TransAM Joe

iTrader: (6)

The further out you put the connectors as in a rail sub frame connector the better leverage of disappating energy, just a fact of physics, no matter how many pieces you have(design of the UMI piece and only two pieces to clear the factory exhaust doesn't affect strength because of weld points). The single piece bow connectors are INSIDE the suspension really not doing a whole lot, but connecting NOT disappating downward/outward force. Think of it like standing with your feet together inside your shoulders and standing with your feet greater than shoulder width apart, which is stronger/better leverage?

dustpusher

I put on a set of these and they helped a bunch.I cant really compare them to anything else.The umi products are made very good.I have a panhard bar also.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

I agree with whoever said its between these and spohn. You guys with the UMI's... Do they hang down low? Like can you see them from the side of the car? Ive been searching lately and havent found any good pictures of how well they tuck.

Personally, I bought spohns bars for my 87. The problem I had with his ease of install. Welding those tubes to the pinch seam and floor was a pain. I also didnt feel that it attached to the front subframe as well as it could. I mean...on the pass. side its just a small dia. bar welded to the top of main tube, then to the subframe.

I DEFINETLY noticed a difference with them, but felt it could have been stiffer. On my new car, Im thinking about getting UMIs or building my own after UMI's design.

Again, I love Spohn's stuff. Everything else is Spohn on my car. I just think that those far outside perimeter bars leave alittle to be desired. I think using some square or rectangular tubing, and really bracing it around the front and rear sub frames is alittle better. I think Im going to build my own set, and after I make the set for the sides, Im going to build a set similar to alstons and tie the inside bars to the outside. Yeah Ill be adding some weight...but my motor doesnt care

J.

Jay

iTrader: (2)

Ghetto, I can take a pic of the driver side UMI on mine.. you can see it if you get about on the road level so it does hang down slightly.
I had the same thoughts as you, with how it attaches however, you can't weld the UMI subframes to the pinchwelds at all like you can with the Spohns. They don't sit anywhere near close enough.

on the below pic, the only places that get attached to the car are the edges marked in green... the rest of the bar doesn't contact the car. I also elongated the pic somewhat since the one above really makes them looks thicker than they are.


I'll try and get a pic of it mounted on my car

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

What size tubing are they? 1" x 3"?

The Project

iTrader: (6)

I have ALL UMI on my car.....great product! Well made and great quality. Just wish they made sway bars.....waiting for them to finalize their stb design.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Its 1x2 I believe.

As for not being able to weld to the pinch seams, that doesnt really bother me too much. As long as there is a solid attachment point between the front and rear subframe areas, then Ide be happy.

I figure...Ill try to make my custom set so that they touch the pinch seam and floor. So I can still tack them along there like Spohns. If I cant, Ill build them similar to the UMIs, and just use a few little struts to tie in the pinch seam/floor board area. No biggie.

I think UMI makes the attachment points the way they do for ease of install. I mean...welding the spohn bars in was a pain. Some spots I had to hit my pinch seam over to meet the bar (probably not the bars fault, probably my body being out of wack). Also, if you arent welding to that area, you dont have to grind any coating off the bars and then re-paint. Which is nice... I just really felt the area in the front where the bars just end wasnt tied in well enough.

If UMI had a reduced price UNCOATED set of bars, Ide probably just get them instead of making my own. However my material costs are coming in low enough that making my own is worth it. So we'll see. Ill definetly post up when I start making mine or installing UMIs...whichever it is.

JAY:... If you can get a pic that would be great. As long as it doesnt hang so low that it looks silly or hangs on speed bumps or something I dont think it will be a big deal. Mine will be black so that should help hide them.

J.

Jay

iTrader: (2)

That's the issue, with only being able to weld along those tabs up front, it's not really a solid mount. Those tabs are the only part that touches the car. As it is right now, I can push up on the connector and see it move, granted it's very slight but it shouldn't move at all. After adding in some angle steel to tie the outer edge in it should be fine. I just figured when looking at the design it would follow along the floor more closely.

I'm not saying they are a bad product by any means, just not 100% happy with them. Construction wise they are solid and I think with a little work will be fine.
It's been raining here so I haven't gone out and gotten the pics.

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Cool...thanks for the info. Im in no hurry for the pics. I doubt Im going to mess with my new car until next spring. Atleast to install SFCs and all.

Im leaning more and more towards just building my own. Basically clamp mounts where I want to attach to the subframe and rear control arm pocket. Then build the rails so they will touch where i want them, and then mate them to the mounts. Sort of build backwards. Im sure UMI built them like that to make them fit easier. Since all cars are alittle different or have taken a hit or two tweaking things a bit.

After building my custom crossmember last summer, Im thinking these are going to be cake. haha.

J.

quadgoat

iTrader: (1)

Here are a couple shots of my car (granted it does have GFX, but this style doesn't really come down very low). I don't notice the SFCs AT ALL on my car, but I do know that they are probably 1/4-1/2 inch below the pinch weld. My Spohn T-56 tranny crossmember is WAY lower (as are a couple of my exhaust clamps LOL).





Hopefully those will help a bit. I can see both sides of the coin when it comes to the attachment points. One of the reasons I opted for the UMI pieces was that I talked to a friend of mine who did quite a bit of welding in the army and he told me that welding the round tube of the Spohn connectors would be a royal pain. Since I was going to install them myself I decided to go with the UMIs for ease of install. I had the same issue someone else mentioned with the front mounting tabs not being close enough to the front subframe, but I just lifted them up with a jack a little (making sure not to lift the car!!) and built the weld up all the way around. So far they seem to be quite stout. I can put a jack under the middle of the SFC, jack the entire side of the car up, and still open and close the door just the same as if it was on the ground!


(btw, that was before I POR-15'd the chassis of my car...I know it looks bad under there LOL)

Bottom line is the more attachment points you have the stiffer the chassis will be...we should all get 10 point cages for our cars I think making your own is really the BEST way to go if you have access to the tools, supplies, and knowledge. Then you can really make the best units for your car and your needs!

-Paul

UMI Performance

We can sell them with out powder coat. We can take $20.00 off the price of them to ship with out powder coat. Just let me know and I will be glad to help.

Thank you!
Ryan

UMI Performance

We do not feel you need to weld to the pinch weld, that is why we keep it away.. .there not suppose to be welded to it. None of our 4th gen SFC's are like that either, we weld at the front and the rear of the car. I am very confused on how you can move the SFC's. If they are welded to the car correctly I don't see how you can "push" on them and move them. I just went out and played with mine and we can't move them, you can jack the entire side of the car up with them and they don't budge. Do you have them fully welded? Are you welds flexing? Are they welded in the front and rear?

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for throwing that out there Ryan! I just hate getting coated things, then grinding them. I feel that it kind of comprises the coating. I have por 15 at home, and would much rather paint it, weld it, then slather it on over teh welded areas.

Ill definetly keep that in mind...

I also agree that there shouldnt be TOO much movement when the bars are installed. A tiny tiny bit I can see. But if its moving a lot, then something isnt right with the mount points or welds. I would still like to tie in the pinch seam/floor boards alittle. But...they seem to work well without that, so maybe Ill skip that idea.

J.

Dora

Ryan,

Your company is awesome!, i just got the missing short piece of subframe today that i ordered from you ON WEDNESDAY. My friend didnt have the short piece when he gave me the frames.

Thanks Ryan,

Bobby

FORMULA355TPI

UMI products are always of good quality. That is why I choose to install them on customers cars as well as my own..

Josh
JS Performance
Hulmeville, PA

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

I've heard a lot of good things about UMI's SFC's and I was just wondering if you have to remove the carpet in order to install them. If so, is it difficult to remove carpet... I've never messed with carpet before.

yevgenievich

iTrader: (4)

i don't see any reason for removing carpet unless you are welding them to the floor which it looks like they are not designed to do.

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

Great, thanks!!

Does anyone have some good pictures of the entire sfc on their car so I know where it mounts and how it looks on the car?

Stephen

iTrader: (12)

Kinda depends...Do you hate your interior? And wanna just burn it all out, by setting the carpet on fire? The heat very well could ignite the padding, igniting the carpet, seats, headliner...you get the picture.

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

NO!! My interior is in da** near perfect condition!

I'm just afraid if I start pulling stuff off, I'll brake something.

quadgoat

iTrader: (1)

The way the UMIs attach, chances are you'd be ok without pulling the carpet, but, personally, I wouldn't chance it. I'd pull it up at the front and rear just to be on the safe side. Trust me, after having some gasoline catch on fire during the build of my car this winter, you DON'T want a fire anywhere NEAR your car!

Here are a few pics of my UMI's installed. Sorry they're not the greatest, but I hope they give you a bit of an idea how they look/install.








(Pics taken before I POR-15'd the undercarriage of my car )

Hope they help!

-Paul

CDN_87IROC

Here are a couple of mine installed.

rik89gta

Hey Quadgoat, I have UMI subframes that are gonna go on soon. But I'm a little paranoid about a couple of rust spots forming in the floor pan. Can I go ahead and just coat them with that POR-15 your talking about? I have nowhere near as much rust as what You had. I really dont wanna have to spend big bucks on getting my floorpans redone. Thanks

ghettocruiser

iTrader: (4)

Can anyone get a picture of just how close the bars come to the pinch seam or the floor? Just curious how close it is or if its like an inch away or something.

I like the way the front of those mounts. The spohn ones just sort of ended...atleast on the driver's side. With only the small dia. strut to secure it to the subframe.

Im getting ideas now...

J.

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

Thanks CDN, those picks are just what I wanted.

Paul, how does that POR-15 stuff actually work? Does it turn the rust into something else or does it just cover up rust really well? I was thinking of using some on my car (it ain't bad but i figured it would help prevent rust) so it will last longer. Any idea how much you used? Does it just brush on? Any info would be great.

Mike

quadgoat

iTrader: (1)

ghettocruiser: I thought a few of my pics showed the pinch weld in relationship to the SFCs. IIRC on my car it's probably 1/2" or so away from the SFC

As for the POR-15...it works GREAT! What it does is it actually bonds to the rust and seals it. Moisture attacking the paint actually hardens it. It'll dry faster on a humid day than on a dry day. It's TOUGH too. Once it's hardened it'll take a beating without chipping off. You've got to follow the instructions though. Make sure not to clean all the rust off, just wire brush off the loose stuff, then degrease it, etch it with their pre-primer etching acid and then paint it. I think you'll be very pleased with the results.

It brushes on and spreads VERY well. I put 2 coats on the undercarriage of my car and used under a quart of the stuff. If you get it on your skin it's there for a week or two since there's not really any solvent that will take it off.

I've used it on several cars now and always been happy with the results. This '92 had lots of rust in the floors. I cut the bad parts out and welded in sheet metal to replace them and then cleaned up the rest and POR-15'd it. I don't have any doubts that it will last for quite some time now.

Let me know if I can answer any other questions!!

-Paul

Guest

All of the formulas that are of importance in determining stress in a beam have L as a factor, L being the unsupported length. More L, more stress, more deflection. While the rockers arent exactly inflexible, using them in conjunction with the SFC is only going to make the entire structure that much stiffer if they are interconnected. Think of it like a truss bridge, take out the cross beams and its nowhere near as strong as the whole.

Jay

iTrader: (2)

Yes but apparently engineering isn't as worthy as "feeling"

userchemical

you wouldnt happen to be serving some lunch off that would you?

Comp788

You were leaning towards making your own SFC's. I had to make mine because of the mods I did to my sub frame. This might give you some ideas on how to make yours. I did not weld them to the pinch weld because Istill have a cage to put in my car and I don't think it will do that much to my car.

If you check out the links below you can see some pictures of the SFC I made and how they were installed. Be sure when welding them in the weight of the car is on it's wheels. Otherwise you can weld in a twist to the car and it will be really messed up!

I made my own SFC's because I did some custom work and there are not any SFC that would fit my application.

When I made mine I used tubing that was 1 3/4" DOM. The wall thickness is .134 The mounting plates on the front are 7ga (3/16") mild steel and the rear mount is attached with a two part mount system. The first part was welded in prior to the SFC and is a U shape part that was welded in 360 degrees and form fitted in there. It was about 7" long. Then the rear of the SFC slid up in there and was welded along the sides and bottom. (hard to explain but worked out great and made for a perfect fit!)

I have a air/hyd mandrel bender. So you can do it different but this was how mine were made.

See attached links for pictures and fabrication of the SFC's

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/su...-wont-fit.html (what SFC's wont fit longtubes?) (what SFC's wont fit longtubes?) (what SFC's wont fit longtubes?) (what SFC's wont fit longtubes?) (what SFC's wont fit longtubes?)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/ex...html?highlight (My exhaust picture) (My exhaust picture) (My exhaust picture) (My exhaust picture) (My exhaust picture)=

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/fa...html?highlight (1982 Z28 Silver State project) (1982 Z28 Silver State project) (1982 Z28 Silver State project) (1982 Z28 Silver State project) (1982 Z28 Silver State project)=

Let me know if you have any questions or send me a PM.

Brett

Dmaxxr

My UMI sfcs worked out great. I did have to cut off 1/2" of length on the passenger side at the front of the connector to the clear the floor pan. Had a friend re-weld the end back on. Used POR - 15 to seal the bare metal and blended in identical to the powder coating on the connector.