malcom2073

I was looking at these heads and came across this thread after doing a search on them here

Do you think it would be worth spending the 900$ for the heads+port job, or spending maybe 1200$ and getting a better set of heads?

I am quite interested in how they run, I'm not planning on making an all-out racing machine, but I want something that performs well at the track and on the street, and I have no heads whatsoever for my 350 right now.

awilson82

I have a set of the patriot super street heads that are going on my new 383 build they are 64cc chambers 215cc runners straight plug and they look to be a killer head and the port work and chambers are beautiful. Patriot performance is the performance brand of alabama cylinder head which is one of the biggest if not the biggest aftermarket cylinder head producer in the US. The $700 heads work about like a aluminum vortec but if you opt to spend a little more for super street heads they really do a number on them. Ill have the 383 on a dyno probably after its in the car in the next month or two and Ill post numbers on them. Imo I think the super street patriots are a decent deal being as I got mine for $1100 for a fully ported assembled set of aluminum heads!

bart91406

I am not sure if it is money well saved to spend 900 dollars on these or spend the money on afr eliminators.I would think with the 500 dollars you could upgrade to a roller cam and at least equal the power. My last motor was a 350 with 9 to 1 compression, comp 292 magnum cam, and the 70% ported afrs(not the new eliminators). It went 12.3 @ 114 mph. My new motor is a 383 with 12 to 1 compression, a comp extreme solid flat tappet 290 cam, and freedom series heads. It is in the same car with the same converter, gears, intake,etc. I will let you know if it is any faster.

YoungJordan2323

I have these exact heads. i just had them bowl blended because i put a 208 valve in. The heads are the best bang for the buck period.

superbee

glad to hear some good info on these, do they come in a smaller runner like a 180 or 185 in the freedom series? IF so anyone running them?

If these really are a decent head i'd think it would be worth the extra 1 or 200 dollars for a set of aluminum heads that perform as good as a set of vortecs that would need to be modified to run a decent lift cam, heck you'll save that extra money right back proabbly by not having to get a vortec bolt pattern intake.

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

A friend tore up a set of camel humps that were nicely done ported and big valves on a 383 in a old 69 vette. Changed to the patroit due to being around 1000 bucks(got the better set). Car lost its puchy bottom end and slowed down from 112 to 110 in the quarter. Every one knows by todays standards a fuelie is no performance head. They look great but like the pro line dont perform well. Any one can take a set of heads and hog them out and make them look nice but doesnt mean it will make power just as a example. Companies like afr have been in business for years to make good heads, these fly by night companies are copying a stock vortec head that isnt bad but not a race head. You get what you pay for. I had a professional engine builder who has experience with champion heads and using flow benches do my stock l98 heads and got better numbers out of them with smaller 2.00 and 1.56 valves. My car screams with a small 224 230 .550 lift cam and these heads. Just saying a lot of research (afr general motors and so on) goes into heads to make good power. Heads is the one place not to cheap out if you want to make power. If you cant spend the money for new good heads then go used with a good name head or a used proven head. None of these cheap heads will make much over 340 rwhp out of the box from what I have seen localy with the few sets people have run.
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I forgot the two ls1 cars(one camaro one gto) that run patriots are total turds. The gto slowed down with the head change it had stock ls6 heads and was faster than the stage 2 patriot head.

superbee

ya i decided to bite the bullit and just wait a few more months so i can get a set of afr's.

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

very smart move. I got the new afr 195 eliminators from tre performance for 1525 shipped and had them upgraded with titanium retainers. Or it was 1440 as they come from afr. they keep them in stock and ship right out . If someone needs a good set and truely on a budet I have a set that are proven to make almost 400rwhp and go 118 in the quarter on my combo. All in my sig and heads for sale in the trader posts.afrs are better and will make more but if looking for a good head to make between 350 and 400rwhp and 800 is your budget take a look at mine.This is for anyone looking for a proven head at a great price with top of the line hardware on them.

blp226

I had a 383 stroker with those heads in my 85 vette. With a moded tuned port they made 425HP & 460TQ on the dyno. Now that engine sits in my 84 Z/28 with intake and carb. I love them! The guy that works at the machine shop I used for my block work put me on to them. He has a set on his 69 nova making over 500HP. I think you'll like them.

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

my stock ported 113 heads made 392 rwhp on the dyno on a 383 with stock ported parts and slp runners. that would put it well over 450 on a fly wheel dyno. also with a small cam. Not impressed with 425 flywheel. Get a real head and go with afrs. Head to head dyno compare afrs made over 40 more rwhp on the same engine and 60 over a stock l98 head. The pat made 22 more than the unported stock l98 head. not worth 1000 bucks. this was teh better freedom head too not the bottom of the line 800 dollar head. Looking out for the best intrest of guys here and dont waste money on the cheap knock off stuff( pat or the other 800 dollar heads).

KamikazeIroccy

iTrader: (1)

can you give me your combo that made that power? Cam ect.

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

well I just sold the set of heads for 650. cam was 224 232 @ .050 .540 .550 lift on a 112. comp grind. 1.6 rockers, stock tpi base I ported and siameesed and ported upper sold all that for 525. It is a very light weight 383 combo with probe pistons scat crank and powdermetal rods. long tube 1 5/8 headers and 4 inch mufflex that I sold for 350. Going single turbo so now have afr 195 eliminator 195 heads same cam and hsr intake with same bottom end. Heads have large cc chambers to drop the compression for the 12 t o1 I had to 9.2 now. Most of all this is in my sig.

bart91406

Although I would not say these heads campare to afr's by any means, I have put them on a flowbench and they are not junk either. These heads perform relatively like a vortec, but are aluminum, and the weight savings should be worth the price difference. Afrs are great but a little pricey. Darts, edelbrocks,and many others advertised flow numbers are no better than patriots.So why spend more. I believe with bang for the buck these heads are worth the money. They are not as good as afrs, but you save enough money to put it somewhere else(cam upgrade, intake, better headers, nitrous, etc.)to make up for it. If you need as much horsepower out of a motor as possible go afrs. but for a street or bracket car I don't think these are an unwise choice. Not everyone should run the same brand of head, the cool thing about cars is people do different things, if every car at the car show was the same, would you go?

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

No I wouldnt go to a show to see the same thing, but if I spend money to go fast then why scimp out and miss out on a easy 40rwhp. I dont see 22 hp being worth 1000 bucks. Like I had said the set dynoed was a freedom series head that is 1000 bucks. If it was the 800 dollar set dont think I would have seen 22 hp over the srock L98 head. When I spend money I expect to see a difference worth the money. And add a different cam to a set of heads that doesnt flow well does nothing but loose power because you are past the point of efficiency on it. For the extra 400 bucks I wouldnt even think twice about not getting a afr or comparable head. If you cant afford a new set of afrs get a used set and still get a good head. I just dont see spending that much money to get 20 to 30 whp. Nos is alot cheaper and get alot more from it. Heads is the one place that if you spend the money and go with good stuff it will pay you back on a bone stock car. My stock cammed 94 Z28 went from 102 to 110 with the afr swap back in 1997. When I added the cam jumped to 115. My point is you get what you pay for when it comes to heads.Period.

bart91406

When I mentioned a cam upgrade I was not referring to bigger, but a roller and you will not lose power with any heads after a roller cam swap. AFR is not the only choice in cylinder heads. They are great and I have owned a pair and loved them, but that does not mean I am going to say" go AFR or go home. These heads flow well, compared to most anything but an afr they seem like a great head. If you swapped from a stock head to these in any real motor(not with an "rvcam") and only saw 20 hp you need to install the head gaskets or something. I am not an expert engine builder, but I have spent plenty of time at the strip. and I have seen tons of cars run great with all different brands of heads, I have also seen them run crappy with good ones. So I guess what I am trying to say is just because you and a couple million other people swear by afrs, does not mean someone would make an unwise decision to buy these or edelbrocks or trickflows or anything else.

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

I had wrote in a prior post that on the same exact car on the dyno the freedom series heads picked up 22 hp over the stock L98 heads. The owner of this car got upset of the gain pulled them off and put on a set of afr 190 series heads not even the new 195 eliminators and picked up a aditional 40 hp. this is rear wheel numbers. The car had a lt1 hot cam in it which is a good cam for easy power and have seen many cars make around 380rwhp with one and good heads. Not very big at all but big enough that a good set of heads will wake it up over stock ones like lt1 heads or l98 heads. The car was retuned for the setup both times and fuel and timing was played with for max gaines. That is enough reason for me to say not to spend the money on the heads and to spend the extra 400 to get a good set. A different guy took off a set of ported fuelie heads for a set of the pro comp 195 heads and lost power over the fuelies. Now anyone knows the fuelies are not a good head by todays standards. I had a set on a old 69 camaro and went to a cheap dart 200cc runner head about 12 years ago and the car picked up 5 mph in the quarter and now after seeing flow numbers on that style of darts they couldnt out flow a vortec. There are plenty of other good heads out there. Dart pro series, the big trickflows, eldelbrock vic juniors that all flow close to the afr heads and cost about the same. I am not saying use only afr heads but dont waste 1000 bucks on the cheap vortec knock offs and to spend a little more and get a head that will make great power in any combo. I have seen this in a friends speed shop and have access to a chassis dyno any time I need to use it and am around alot when cars get done. So have seen a lot of different combos of what works and what is a waste of money.

superbee

what did that car put out for numbers with the hot cam and 190's?

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

right at 380. Had a big mouth lower and slp runners so with a better intake may have made more. It was a 89 vette or 88.Been a while. Did what most lt1 cars do with that setup. New 195 eliminators are even better. I have a set of 190s on my lt1 and just got 195s for my L98 turbo car. The 190s are ported and now are just over 210cc so way better than the way they came but side by side now the 195s are very nice out of the box compared to my ported 190s that made 550 rwhp on my 94 z28 with a solid roller and 392 inches.

superbee

nice nice, i was kinda leaning toward getting the 180's to better match the smaller hot cam profile. Thats how i saw it anyways.

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

personally for the same money I would go with 195s. You will have room to grow in the future. If you go 180s you will be maxed out and missing on some power. We did a 93 vette lt1 engine and put a set of stage 3 lt4 heads on it with a tiny comp 305 cam and that car was super fast for what it had. the heads flowed 320 at 600 lift and were done by mti many years ago before there head ported went on his own. cant remeber his name off the top of my head. We thought the heads would be way too much for a stock bottom lt1 with a 305 cam and bolt ons. It never hit the dyno but with a stock gear stock converter ran 11.9 @119 in the quarter and made 17inch of vaccuum and drove like a stock car. Later it went to a 383 and solid roller and made 440rwhp not sure if it went back to the track as it has no cage. So room to grow and fast with a small cam. Now those heads are way more than a afr 195 so see my point here.

KamikazeIroccy

iTrader: (1)

LT1Z350, YOURE A BEAST. MUCH RESPECT FOR YOU MAN!!!!

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

I try to pass on as much useful info as I can to help eveyone not make the mistakes that I have seen over the years of doing this. Not eveyone has the money to do the live and learn thing. I have done many myself when younger and had the credit card bills to prove it and piles of engine parts. I did a lot of live and learn and wish I had someone to guide me on a decent path to doing what I was looking for. Like now with my single turbo set up. got a lot of help here on the board from guys and I will pass on anything I feel useful. Its a shame that someone like me with all my knowlege of this stuff is out of work right now due to the place I worked sold out and they shut it down. So for now I read and try to help out where I can and try not to upset people when I say they are wrong on someting because I have experienced it first hand and someitmes more than once. Seems like most here have a goal of trying to go fast and not spend every penny we make on trying to do it. So if I can help that cause in anyway I am all for it.

KamikazeIroccy

iTrader: (1)

well can you help me with a lil problem go to my newest threads in the TPI forum and Exhaust Forum so I dont steal this guys thread, Thank You

bart91406

I may be missing something here, but I thought that head flow was a very important aspect to power when all ather things are created equal. So if I were to compare these to other heads that have the same valve size and similar runner size, these seem great. There is an older article on afr's web site from chp listing many different sbc heads for comparison, if I compare these numbers with the ones I have personally seen on a profesional flow bench for the patriots, the patriots are as good or better than many of these more reputable brands. I would not run Pro-comp anything because it is chinese, but I do not believe patriot is.I have not put mine on a dyno or been to the race track yet due to my dead flat tappet cam(whoops) but I have ran these on the street and put them on a flowbench and they seem great. If they truly are totally inferior to dart, or brodix or whatever I will let you know when I get to the racetrack. But I will have to agree to disagree till then and if they run well I will have an "I told you so". If not I will scream to the heavens"patriot sucks"!

superbee

combustion chamber design is anothe aspect.

KamikazeIroccy

iTrader: (1)

ask LT1Z350, he seems to know his stuff!!

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

Hot rod did a test when the patriots first came out and took a bunch of heads and flowed them all. First thing I learned was most companies inflate there numbers a ton. I was all about them because they looked good and were affordable until I was the numbers on them. Barley out did a stock vortec head. Got burried by every good head, afr, dart pro, edelbrock vic junior, and even fast burns killed them. If I remember they were advertised at 268 and flowed 238 and the vortec were 235. these are at 600 lift. I am not going to argue this point any more. I saw them on a car only make 22 hp over a stock L98 head then a afr 190 make another 40 over that. Point proven. Flow numbers arent the world but combustion chamber shape and swirl and how it moves the air is more important than just a number and if you really look at het numbers under the curve is where a good head shines. at .200 .300 lift when the door starts to open valve just gets off the seat that makes for torque and power at lower levels not just peak power and that is what is needed for a street car. Numbers dont mean anything with no proven power to back it up. I also hate to say it but the patriot and pro comp heads are from the same blank according to hot rod. I dont know personally but what I had read. Most of those heads also use chinnese valves and springs on them to save cost. My afr heads have comp springs titanium retainers and ferra valves. It even has tuliped exhaust valves that are good for 30% more low lift flow. All that adds to the cost of a head. I will be curious to see what it does at the track when you get a cam in it. I am going to try to find that hot rod article and post it here. As even hto rod was disapointed in the BUDGET heads.

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

here is a fairly accurate list of what heads flow. The patriot heads being done on a superflow with a 4.060 bore will inflate the numbers a touch. Bigger bore=more air moved. Most do it on a common 4.030 bore as it is what most people end up having in a car.
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sum...%20Performance
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also you want great bang for the buck and great hardware go with a fast burn. hands down the best head for a 1000 bucks.

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

here is a good one too with pics even. Read close a guy flowed a set and only got 227 at 500 lift. That sucks bad.
http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...d.php?p=753099

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

now if you are ready to be really unimpressed read this article where they took a large solid cam in a 383 and started with bone stock iron heads and replaced them with the patriots flag ship 215cc freedom heads and only gained 52 hp on a standard dyno. They also raised the comperssion at thesame time on it with the smaller chamber to gain that 52 hp. It all only made around 420 hp. I had a smaller cam in my 383 with L98 ported heads and had 400 at the wheels. So now do that with a 195 or what ever the smaller patriot head is and now you have a turd. Just read the article to see how much motor it is and if it had real heads would ave made over 500 hp.
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...ine/index.html

Batass

What do you think about 200cc RHS lightning heads? While were talking about budget heads. I got mine bare for 600 bucks, but iron.

CHP did a test with them and they didnt do much better than stock vortecs either. It was a small cam though. My engine builder loves these heads.

I have them on my 383 and N/A the car rocked. I'll have to get some track numbers N/A.

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

afr site engine build with similar stuff. similar cam spec but hyd roller and the other was flat solid. 80 more hp on afr motor. same compression, intake and carb.

RPM

Torque

H.P.
2500
3000
3500
4000
4500
5000
5500
6000

457
467
483
511
517
504
481
439

231
273
322
389
443
480
503
502






Dyno Test Criteria
Horsepower:
Engine:
Heads:
Compression:
Carburetor:
Ignition:
Cam:
Exhaust:
Fuel:

500 HP
383ci
AFR Street 195 Cylinder Heads
9.5
Holley 0-4779 750 cfm
MSD Distributor 36° Timing
Comp Cams 12-433-8 Hyd Roller Cam
1 3/4" Headers
93 Octane Pump Gas
Engine built and dyno tested by American Speed
ultilizing an Edelbrock RPM Performer Manifold
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I have heard good things about rhs. The only true american made head of the budget heads. They are more than the others but use good stuff in them.

Batass

I'd say they are a good bit better than the patriots. The aluminum ones are 700 bare I think. After I had the guy work them a little and set up my provided vavlesprings, I had 800 in them total. We figured the car made about 475 N/A and the builder figured the same.

Vortec heads in magazines have made the same with similiar cam.
Probably a good 25-30 hp less than AFRs. Since I'm blown, it doesnt matter much, but N/A, the AFRs are worth it.

For a real budget head, I would say vortecs or lightly ported L98.

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

last one here. getting tired. This engine is similar in all aspects except has 10.6 comp over the 9.8 on the 383 with the 215 pat heads. But both cams used are flat tappet hyd and quite a bit smaller than the isky solid cam used in the other article. Compression is normally worth 2% per point gained so 9 to 1 to 10 to 1 would give a over all 2% just for compression. So not exactaly the same engine but close and the afrs made over 500 with a smaller cam.
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...ads/index.html

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

yeah either spend 400 bucks and stay with proted L98 stuff or vortec or if you are going to spend around a grand go with either fast burn or afr heads. Fast burns are very impressive for a gm casting. Only problem is the huge 210cc intake port where the 195 eliminators just bolted right up to my old hsr with a 1205 gasket. Actually looked down the intake and head is a touch larger than the intake so good for velosity and picking up speed going into the head runner. Read all the articles and you will see the light on all this. Remember the patriot used inst the one everyone is looking at but there best avaliable 215cc runner race head and like I said if it was a 195 non ported I am sure would be missing out on more than 25 hp. So now the proof is on the table for those saying it is a good head. that combo with that head isnt inmpressive at all. I am more impressed over what the stock 882 did on that setup.

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

couldnt pass this up. These are ported by a pro have better and larger valves and look at the numbers here. SO I would say pat inflates the crap out of there stock heads numbers with the smaller valves
http://www.j-performance.com/

KamikazeIroccy

iTrader: (1)

I really like his Patriot Heads!
$985, You cant beat that

Batass

So the flow numbers are better. No dynos or track times. I wouldn't count on them. Trick flows are probably better.

KamikazeIroccy

iTrader: (1)

i just like the price quality and i just like em!
TrickFlow is probably more expensive?

Batass

Trick flows are 800 bare, you could do the valvetrain and hardware for 250-300 bucks. Worth the extra hundred bucks, I'd say.

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

A couple of guys at a chevelle racing forum ran his heads and were severly disapointed in the performance. Flow numbers are not the world when it comes to making power. Combustion chamber, spark plug location, actual port angles are a few things that even if numbers are good can mess with making power. By looking at the articles posted above it proves the patriots are no good. Especially when there flag ship 215cc ported head only made 52 more over a stock small valve smog head. That is terrible. I have seen afrs make 100 over a stock head in certain applications. 400 small block with a tpi and a comp shelf 292 cam in a guys car picked up aver 2 sec in the quarter with a change to a set of 210cc heads over the stock 441x heads that were on it. This was 8 or so years ago. I am done beating this dead horse. I have yet seen a car with a set of these procomp or pat heads do anything .And yes they come from the same cast according to popular hotrodding magizine.They also dont have a good aluminum mix either. Much weaker and cheaper made in china what do you expect.Dont see them advertising the blend like other big names. If you want a good cheap head go with the fast burn. Flows almost as well as a 190 afr and I have seen them proven over and over. Look at the zz430 it has a small cam to get that 430 hp and low compression.

Batass

Fastburn heads are good, but would be too big for a 350 for most people. They also require a vortec intake and they cost close to the same as afr 195s.

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

You can get them now with the bolt pattern for either intake. My friend has a set on a 88 vette with a standard tpis mini ram on it and paid 1100 new for them. Made 435 rwhp with a custom grind cam that is in the 238 242 @ .050 and .600 lift range. Very fast car.125+ in the quarter N/A.

Batass

Didn't know that. I think thats pretty darn close to what afrs will do. 400 dollars is good savings. Just a quick search I found them before around 1400.

I have a similiar duration but .575 lift. I'll have to do a run N/A and let you know what I get with my lightning 200's.

bart91406

I know nobody has posted on this subject in a while but I said I will let you know how these heads perform on my motor with drag strip results. I finally got my car to the track this weekend. So I wont be telling you how a FRIENDS motor or a buddys car ran with them but how they responded on a motor I built in my garage. The motor is a .040 (a used block that we only honed)over 383 with a cast crank(used), stock rods with arp bolts, and cast pistons (used) with a .100 dome. It has 11.5 comp with the piston .020 in the hole and a .025 head gasket. The heads are mildly ported patriot 195, I bought these bare and used howards components to assemble them. It has an extreme energy cam with 292 adv. dur. and .525 lift. and a really old origanal victor intake. This motor took my car to 11.58 @ 116 mph with a 1.69 60 foot( traction problems). This is out of the box with no more than basic tuning. So in my opinion these heads perform fair. There not great, but I have seen plenty of motors with similar specs that had Dart or rhs heads not perform this well. So I consider this proof that these are not a bad buy. This is firsthand knowledge. I have owned other heads as well and my next set would probably be afr or rhs, but I would not talk bad about these heads to anybody.

Batass

I have to say I'm impressed, I wonder how much the porting helped. Did you do it yourself or pay someone?

bart91406

I had a proffesional shop do the portwork and do before and after flowbench testing. It was pretty minor porting, I only paid 200$ for the porting and benchtest. The person that ported them, Larry Moore, has ported about a billion heads, from mild to wild. He thought that they were a pretty good value, up to par with most out of the box(not cnc ported) heads.

lt1z350

iTrader: (2)

not impressed and doesnt prove it is a good set of heads. My stock ported(done by me) l98 113 heads took my 92 formula with a 383 stock gear, 700 r4, small cam comp 224 230 530 540 lift with stock upper and lower intake I ported with slp runners to 11.7@ 118 and a best of 119 mph. Does this mean they are good heads? No Means I had a good combo. Every one knows the 113 heads cant flow crap and are not good for going fast. My car is 3400 with me in it. You never said what car or weight. May be a 2400 lb 240 z car. Seen stock lt1 engines in a car like that go 12.4@ 114 on around 260rwhp which is also not impressive. Dyno #s would show they are a good head by power made. Not just peak but under the curve. My car made just under 400 rwhp with that setup and at around 11.5 comp. I lowered the comp to 9.2 for a turbo set up by changing to a custom large chamber afr 195 cc eliminator head and changed nothing else and wanted to see the difference in the heads knowing I was taking a loss with the lower compression and the car made 420 rwhp peak but more impressive was the upwards of 40 rwhp at points under the curve. Now with a single t-76 turbo yet to be re dynoed. Like I said before if you want to pay 800+ bucks for a aluminium version of a vortec head go for it.

bart91406

Although you may not be impressed with these heads now, I do believe I have proven these heads are not junk. I paid 460 dollars for these heads bare, that is less than a new set of vortecs, but with bronze valve guides, screw-in studs, guideplates, and no machining for lifts of more than .480. They are also aluminum, which is obviously lighter, but also easier to port, and better at dissipating heat, and except springs up to 1.550.So even if these heads were to perform equal to gmpp vortecs, they seem like a good deal to me.
The car is a 91 camaro rs with t-tops. It is stock weight with all interior. It has 4.10 gears and a slp take-out posi in a stock rear-end. The trans is a turbo 350 with a hughes 4000 stall.
This exact same car(same trans, converter, gears, headers, etc.)ran 12.3 @ 112 with an afr head 350. That motor had less comp at 10-1 and a 292 magnum hydraulic cam, but everything else is the same. so as you can see I do have some idea how good heads perform. I also had another motor in this car with world heads that ran 15s, but that is a different story. I guess what I am saying is that you may have an opinion on these heads, but I have a set and they run fine, so unless you can buy a set and do a direct comparison on a dyno, you really don't have much room to argue your point.
I also drive this car across town to work almost daily, and there are no reliability issues.

Fast 383

iTrader: (2)

This is a great thread. When I was building my 383 I proposed every single cheap budget head to the builder. RHS, Patriot, Etc...

Hi words to me were...."I will hold your motor, save up for the AFR's." I was reluctant untill he said that if AFR killed his mom he would still only use AFR heads.

Fast Foward.

My combo is in sig. My friend has an identicle third gen. 383, Th-350, 4.10's and 3200 stall. He has 1/2 point more cmpression, and a much bigger hydro roller cam. We have the same intake, carb, ignition, etc...

His car with 200cc World Product heads (with port work) put down 356 RWHP and a week later at the same dyno mine put down 373RWHP with a 195cc heads and a smaller Flat tappett cam and 11.1 instead of 11.5.

Save your money and buy the best head. It's worth another month of saving. You will not be dissaointed. I also like everyone pointing and saying wow, those are really good heads!