shaggy56

I think the issues are more with the fact that lots of guys are having problems with the heads and most want real feedback before buying a product. No one wants lip service about a certain product but rather what people are having to say about them that already have them. I mean people are having to go great lengths to get them and then find out its throwing metal filings into their engine. Most of the people that have said negative things are the ones who actually either own a set or have been on a waiting list for months. If someone posts something that can be an issue with a new purchase I want to hear what people have to say and I wouldnt want lip service cluttering up the issues.

shaggy56

Have you actually ever CC'ed every head that every manufacture actually offered? Reason I ask is that I find it funny how much head CCs will deviate from actual advertised CC's. Whats even better is when actual CC's of the same advertised head will even deviate.

lowflyr

No I have not CC'd everyones heads......yes there is variances in several aftermarket head manufacturers. This is primarily due to the casting process that they are all based on. Of course, any heads that are CNC'd will have dramatically improved port to port CC tolerances.

There are several sources online to find information on any head, including actual cc measurements of the intake ports. Just do some searching and you will find information in time.

Regardless, I stand by my statement you quoted. I do not need to cc everyones heads, only look to the heads in the same range. You will find that most are reasonably close to their advertised numbers, particularly the CNC versions.

I will provide the measured CC for my 210's when they arrive.

With regards to the discussion of AFR quality, I have no problem with that. It is pertenant to know this if you are considering buying these heads. I do have a problem with constant bickering over who has better heads. If I have any serious problems that are not anticipated, rest assured I will be communicating them here as well. For example, metal filings are anticipated, I would never trust any manufacturer of any part for my engine to remove all the metal filings, they are to easy to miss and I have too much to lose.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

Scat, have you recieved any of these heads? And have you heard of anyone else having problems with them?

ScatStroker

Jay,

None of my customers had problems with the previous issue - they were new and swapped for a preventative measure before it could become an issue. Knock on wood I hope we got everyone swapped out. Everything coming in now has been checked and it's been that way for roughly 2 months. The two that have been dynoed have been mild 383's and have made 527 hp and 507 hp - not bad for 10:1 and ~.550 cams.

Within the last week I've received:

5 sets of 1040's (Angle, 65cc)
6 sets of 1038's (Angle, 75cc)
6 sets of 1036's (Straight, 65cc)

The first 2 sets of 1034's (Straight, 65cc) shipped today and we should have 10 sets finished up between this week and next.

So yes, they have been coming through.

Brian
ADP

Wishmaster's87IROC

iTrader: (4)

did you personally dyno two 383's with the 195's? what size cam was used? cause Im putting together a 383 with a 537 lift cam.

ScatStroker

They weren't our engines, they were customers.

Brian

Wishmaster's87IROC

iTrader: (4)

you know the specs of the 383's? I already have my 195's'Im just trying to get a fel of what I should be puttin out

ScatStroker

If I have time tomorrow I can find the emails and let you know.

Brian

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

Hope to make around that on my 406 with a xr288 cam.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i just wanted to bring this back since i just ordered a set of AFR's, the 1040's.

i realized they have 8mm valve stems which are .313 inches in diameter. stock valves for sbc are like .34 inches. so i guess i cant use my self aligning rocker arms??

TraviZ

iTrader: (2)

I think self aligning is just based on if the heads are machines for it or not where the pushrods go.

Guest

I dont think the tolerance is that close on the self aligning to where 0.030 +/- is going to make a bit of difference.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

i measured some stuff with my micrometer and looked at the self aligning rocker roller area which seems to be around .385" between the guideing slots on the rocker arm. comparing that to the stock valve there seems to be alot more slack than i expected. .385" to a .340 valve, there is some room there. And when you go to a 8mm or .313" valve, there is even more room. That extra little bit of slack doesnt seem like it will hurt anything, but i'm not sure. I think the pushrod slot in the head has more to do with the "self" aligning aspect than the rocker it seems

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

I agree with Madmax regarding the rockers. I would spend some time on getting the pushrod length right. There is a very good chance the stock one will be the wrong length. This is based on a motor currently being built with the new AFR heads.

Also don't expect the stock style valve covers to fit. Don't expect the accessory bolts to fit. They might very well be to long. Otherwise a very good head.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

yeah i was gonna check pushrod length as it will be needed if i do mill the heads down and use a thin gasket. I'll let you guys know of my experience with the heads as soon as i get them

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

This is an old thread but I thought I would reply again. I bolted a set of street 195 heads on my 406 last week. They look really good. I ordered them from a local machine shop and got them in three weeks.

I had to put three washers behind the bolts that bolt the front brackets on. I did not have to elongate any holes.

I am using a perimeter bolt valve cover. I have heard some people are having problems with the center bolt valve covers.

What type of rocker arm is everyone using with the eliminator heads? I have Crane Energizer roller rockers but the rocker studs seem to be to long. My push rod length is going to be 7.3 in, I actually think 7.25 would be even better. I will have to check.

I almost bought a set of ported TF's from a board member but the low-mid lift numbers were not as good.

For the price, the eliminator heads are priced right a long with all the other heads out there. I called AFR and told them what my setup was and they recommended the street 195 head. I asked about the comp version. They said with the comp version I would gain about 15hp and it would cost an extra 700 dollars. The guy said he wouldn't do it, but if I wanted every bit of power out of it to get the comp's. Actually if you read back in the thread Scat Stroker told me the same thing. Either one of them could have talked me into the comp's. Thats what "I thought I needed" A lot of it was I just wanted the biggest baddest flowin AFR heads. I went with their recommendation and got the street's. I figure I can put that $700 towards a 9 inch rear end to actually hook the power up.

Their 383 with the same cam,intake,carb and similar exhaust made 500hp or a little more, with a 406, a point more compression I hope to touch 510. Given thats on a "perfectly" tunes engine combo that I will probably never have.

Now, it's time to hear about some protopline heads.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

this whole thread had comparisons to some worked over topline heads that had less than 1000 bucks total into them that pushed some heavy car well into the 11's or something like that. i'd be curious to see flow numbers for both heads on the same bench, and the power they each put down.

but for 1450 bucks, AFR's arent a bad deal at all. Trickflow is now same price thru summit racing and the advertised numbers arent as good. I know advertising isnt something to go on as true facts but i've seen some numbers posted around that show AFR's are pretty close to advertised. And i know a few cars using older versions that are doing some impressive ET's/mph in the drags so go figure

DTL504

iTrader: (1)

a post by Tony Mamo(AFR Eliminator Designer)

The question posted

first i would like to say hi to everyone, this is my first post. i've been watching this site for a a while, just never have posted anything until now. i know a few of you on here from the hotrodders board. i'm 406 ss monte on there.

i have a set of dart pro-1 215cc heads & their not the platinum heads. i'm wondering if a set of Afr 195cc or 210cc eliminator heads would be a better head for my 406. would the Afr heads make enough power to justify the switch? i would sell the darts to help pay for the Afr heads. i'm guessing i would have about $600 out of pocket cost. would it be worth it?

my cam is a Lunati solid lift 249-259 @.050" .543"-.561" lift on a 106 l/s. 1 3/4 headers, 10.5 compression, 750 dp Holley. i have a victor jr, team g, & rpm air gap intakes. all three would be good to use. 3500 pound car with 3.42 gears, & a 3,500 edge racing converter.

i'm also thinking of going to a smaller cam if i do the swap, not much smaller though

Tony's response


Thats not a very street friendly set-up you have there....you dont have enough displacement and/or static compression to carry it. If it has 6" of vacuum at an idle I would be surprised.

I would suggest our 195 street heads and a cam in the low/mid 240's on a more street friendly 108-110 LSA. I would also suggest we mill the heads to get your static CR to 11-11.25 to 1. The much reduced overlap will wake up your bottom end as will the much smaller port that probably has close to the same peak flow of your current heads, with more airflow across the low and midlifts, but you lost 20cc's of volume in the process. It would feel like a completely different car and I guarantee would run faster at the track as well as being a pleasure to drive in comparison to your current combination.

If you have the extra coin the 195 Comp's would be the ultimate head for you as the cross section is similar to our 195 street head but it flows an additional 10-15 CFM's. Of course its more money but that head is the ultimate piece for a 350-400 CID dual purpose street/strip application. Honestly you could bolt them on a 427 and they would hold their own with 300 CFM's of peak flow at a very usable .600 lift. A 427 SBC built around that head would feel like a 496 BBC from off idle to 4000 RPM's, but thats a bit off topic and not related to your discussion.

Bottom line if you can justify the extra coin, the 195 Comp will outflow your current head and do it with 20 less cc's of volume (thats HUGE). And that translates into numerous good things when the tires hit the pavement (throttle response, gobs of low and midrange TQ, and big peak numbers as well).

Call me at AFR....I would love to help you set something up with either 195 offering we have....I can also help you design a custom cam that will work perfect for your particular application based on the head we ultimately select.

Cheers,
Tony

This confirms what I was originally thinking, that the AFR heads are extremely versatile, from high RPM 302's to stump pulling 427's, the 195's are worth considering, competition's if you can afford them or need the added flow.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

yep they do seem to be the top small block head around at the moment..going by the numbers

I cant WAIT to see what my 383 will do this year with the big custom cam and AFR's

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

To DTL504: I followed that thread on the other site. Welcome to 3rd Gen.

To:Orr89RocZ: The outcome of your project will most likely depend on whether your engine will be put together by an engine assembler or an engine builder. There can be a big horsepower difference between the two.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

thats what i'm thinking too... i was gonna try it myself but now i'm thinkin i'm gonna use Golen to build the shortblock for me

mattsv8_03

iTrader: (2)

How about some number in the 1/4 for you.

my 82 s10 street / drag truck.
355" sbc th400 with brake
all same gearing no other changes.

stock gm double humps with 1.94 1.50 manley race flow valves. valves unshoruded no other port work. on motor. 11.78 112.

edelbrock vr jrs
2.08 1.60 valves 64 cc chambers no other port work out of box.
11.55 best ever at 115
on spray 10.55 at 123

switched to afr eleminator 210s 8mm valves 210 runner instead of 215 in edelbrok.
race ready version with 2.08 1.6 valves
on motor 11.20 at 118
on spray same shot same kit.
9.93 at 134.98.

mattsv8_03

iTrader: (2)

in my opinion the only heads better than the afr eleminator line in a 23 deg are the cfe wedge head for sbc. those things are wiked but also 3500 a set with no intake. more with a custom alum tunnell ram