New AFR Eliminator Heads
10-07-2006, 06:54 PM
#151
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Car: 1987 1SICIROC.....1999 TransAm
Engine: 385 HSR.....LS1
Transmission: 700R4 with Midwest 3400 2.4str...M6
Axle/Gears: SLP Zexel Posi unit 3.42's...3.73's
whats this Im reading about steam holes in the heads? do I need to have that done?
What I ordered and are payed in full is a set of the 1040 L98 Angle plug 65cc 195's
They have the ugraded ARP rockers studs cause Im using pro magnum rockers and the rev kit and cost me a total with shipping of $1675.
I was told by AFR that the heads have both coolant holes predrilled in both heads and are predrilled for all acessories in the front of the heads but I was not told or asked about steam holes...what is that? and whats it for?
thanks!!
What I ordered and are payed in full is a set of the 1040 L98 Angle plug 65cc 195's
They have the ugraded ARP rockers studs cause Im using pro magnum rockers and the rev kit and cost me a total with shipping of $1675.
I was told by AFR that the heads have both coolant holes predrilled in both heads and are predrilled for all acessories in the front of the heads but I was not told or asked about steam holes...what is that? and whats it for?
thanks!!
10-07-2006, 09:20 PM
#153
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Car: 1987 1SICIROC.....1999 TransAm
Engine: 385 HSR.....LS1
Transmission: 700R4 with Midwest 3400 2.4str...M6
Axle/Gears: SLP Zexel Posi unit 3.42's...3.73's
whew!...good to knowthanks
10-09-2006, 02:19 PM
#154
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Anyone see the new CHP mag? With the AFR eliminators tested on a 383? 523hp. - I haven't fully read the article yet, but from my skim through, and the above pricing, I'd say AFR has finally become a reasonable purchase.
I'm still only at $1000 total in my toplines, and running 11.7's in a 4001lb car(plus me, about 170ish when she was still mobile) so power wise I must be comparable and I'm only on a 355ci. - Many variables between the two motors, but solid numbers for a good price...I can live with that. - Now lets see a motor like that in a comparable car and squirt that thing down the 1/4......?
I'm still only at $1000 total in my toplines, and running 11.7's in a 4001lb car(plus me, about 170ish when she was still mobile) so power wise I must be comparable and I'm only on a 355ci. - Many variables between the two motors, but solid numbers for a good price...I can live with that. - Now lets see a motor like that in a comparable car and squirt that thing down the 1/4......?
10-09-2006, 05:47 PM
#155
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Car: 89' T/A, 00' Firehawk
Engine: 406 Roller
Transmission: TH700R4 w/2800 stall
Axle/Gears: 3.23 Posi
thanks for telling us that...again...it's been a few posts since you have told us how much you have in your protoplines
Last edited by LilJayV10; 10-09-2006 at 05:51 PM.
10-10-2006, 01:52 PM
#156
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thanks for telling us that...again...it's been a few posts since you have told us how much you have in your protoplines
10-11-2006, 06:41 PM
#157
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Car: 86 Trans Am
Engine: 406
Transmission: TH350, 4200
Axle/Gears: Moser 9", 3.89
How big are the runners on your Pro Toplines and are they out of the box?
10-11-2006, 11:39 PM
#158
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Car: 1985 Z28
Engine: 85 L98
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: stock 10 bolt-3.73 eaten posi
Anyone see the new CHP mag? With the AFR eliminators tested on a 383? 523hp. - I haven't fully read the article yet, but from my skim through, and the above pricing, I'd say AFR has finally become a reasonable purchase.
I'm still only at $1000 total in my toplines, and running 11.7's in a 4001lb car(plus me, about 170ish when she was still mobile) so power wise I must be comparable and I'm only on a 355ci. - Many variables between the two motors, but solid numbers for a good price...I can live with that. - Now lets see a motor like that in a comparable car and squirt that thing down the 1/4......?
I'm still only at $1000 total in my toplines, and running 11.7's in a 4001lb car(plus me, about 170ish when she was still mobile) so power wise I must be comparable and I'm only on a 355ci. - Many variables between the two motors, but solid numbers for a good price...I can live with that. - Now lets see a motor like that in a comparable car and squirt that thing down the 1/4......?
they made over 470 hp with something like .489 lift with 1.5RR on a 388. thats nuts, with a bigger cam and 1.6RR ( i want to say somewere around .520 intake lift) they made 523hp
10-12-2006, 12:23 AM
#159
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Car: 71 Nova
Engine: Superramed 383, Topline heads
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 8.2 posi 3.08
Yeah I seen an article like that once with vortecs.
Articles That Use Comp Cams® Products
Im not big into magazine articles anymore since most guys seem to complain of lower than desired results. I think its best we leave this kind of thing to the guys buying the heads and seeing what they have to say about them at the track.
Articles That Use Comp Cams® Products
Im not big into magazine articles anymore since most guys seem to complain of lower than desired results. I think its best we leave this kind of thing to the guys buying the heads and seeing what they have to say about them at the track.
10-12-2006, 12:43 PM
#160
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Car: 92 Z28 convertible
Engine: Miniram 383
Transmission: T-56
Axle/Gears: 4.10 stk 10 bolt
So does anyone know the pricing and availabitly of the new 210 Eliminator competition heads are? Thanks.
10-12-2006, 01:31 PM
#161
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pricing seems to be anywhere from $1400 - $2000 depending upon options and where you get them, availability seems to be crap.
- I also agree on mag articles. Some seem ok, others seem like they're desperately trying to make the manufacturer look good. - Hot Rod did an BBC article one time on the merlin iron heads. They actually lost power till around 5500, then only picked up about 10hp and they were talking about how great an "improvement" it was......torque also suffered about the same, except it only gained about 5ftlbs, at almost 1000rpm higher than the previous peak.
- My toplines are as-cast 200cc port, 64cc CNC chamber. 5 angle valve job, manley street master valves and dual roller springs. - The only thing changed from delivery was the valve job. - all my specs are in my sig....
- I also agree on mag articles. Some seem ok, others seem like they're desperately trying to make the manufacturer look good. - Hot Rod did an BBC article one time on the merlin iron heads. They actually lost power till around 5500, then only picked up about 10hp and they were talking about how great an "improvement" it was......torque also suffered about the same, except it only gained about 5ftlbs, at almost 1000rpm higher than the previous peak.
- My toplines are as-cast 200cc port, 64cc CNC chamber. 5 angle valve job, manley street master valves and dual roller springs. - The only thing changed from delivery was the valve job. - all my specs are in my sig....
Last edited by Shagwell; 10-12-2006 at 01:35 PM.
10-12-2006, 08:54 PM
#162
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Car: 1988 Chevy silverado K5
Engine: 350 bored .030, crane cams hyd bluprint l-79 cam 447 lift 272 dur, camel hump heads port and polished 1.94 1.50, afterburner headers and y pipe, holley 670 cfm tbi, holley projection dual plane manifold, accel high pressure fuel pump, 3 inch exhaust
Transmission: 700 r4 with corvette servo and shift kit.
Yeah I seen an article like that once with vortecs.
Articles That Use Comp Cams® Products
Im not big into magazine articles anymore since most guys seem to complain of lower than desired results. I think its best we leave this kind of thing to the guys buying the heads and seeing what they have to say about them at the track.
Articles That Use Comp Cams® Products
Im not big into magazine articles anymore since most guys seem to complain of lower than desired results. I think its best we leave this kind of thing to the guys buying the heads and seeing what they have to say about them at the track.
10-14-2006, 09:40 PM
#163
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Pricing is the same ($1499 list)
The heads have not been completed and will still be a while. Last I checked they had casting revisions being made for a dedicated casting, once that's finished we'll start seeing them come through. In the meantime AFR just moved and it'll be a bit delayed...
Brian
ADPerformance, Your Source for Longblock Performance Parts
10-15-2006, 08:46 AM
#164
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Car: 92 Z28 convertible
Engine: Miniram 383
Transmission: T-56
Axle/Gears: 4.10 stk 10 bolt
Pricing is the same ($1499 list)
The heads have not been completed and will still be a while. Last I checked they had casting revisions being made for a dedicated casting, once that's finished we'll start seeing them come through. In the meantime AFR just moved and it'll be a bit delayed...
Brian
ADPerformance, Your Source for Longblock Performance Parts
The heads have not been completed and will still be a while. Last I checked they had casting revisions being made for a dedicated casting, once that's finished we'll start seeing them come through. In the meantime AFR just moved and it'll be a bit delayed...
Brian
ADPerformance, Your Source for Longblock Performance Parts
10-15-2006, 01:22 PM
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My typo - Comp heads will be more expensive, same as they always have been.The $1499 is a standard race package, 1050 or 1054 for example.
10-15-2006, 09:40 PM
#167
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Car: 89' T/A, 00' Firehawk
Engine: 406 Roller
Transmission: TH700R4 w/2800 stall
Axle/Gears: 3.23 Posi
Scat,
If you replied to my earlier question i didn't see it, when will the 195's with angle plugs 65cc be available?
If you replied to my earlier question i didn't see it, when will the 195's with angle plugs 65cc be available?
10-15-2006, 09:46 PM
#168
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It's the only head I have a back order on. I have large chambers (1038) and both versions in the straight plug (1034 and 1036.) We'll continue to get them but they're usually spoken for before they arrive here so I'm unsure when we'll readily have them on the shelf, just depends on when AFR catches up and if the demand slows down.
Brian
ADPerformance, Your Source for Longblock Performance Parts
10-15-2006, 10:02 PM
#169
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Car: 1988 Chevy silverado K5
Engine: 350 bored .030, crane cams hyd bluprint l-79 cam 447 lift 272 dur, camel hump heads port and polished 1.94 1.50, afterburner headers and y pipe, holley 670 cfm tbi, holley projection dual plane manifold, accel high pressure fuel pump, 3 inch exhaust
Transmission: 700 r4 with corvette servo and shift kit.
they can take as long as they want as far as I'm concerned and I'll start saving for em. lol who cares if they are hard to get right now... they are still kind of prototipical. They are still making revisions to the casting process last I heard.
10-16-2006, 01:37 PM
#170
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I did notice one thing after a slightly closer scan of the CHP article(I've got more going on right now than I can keep up with, so I still haven't been able to read it fully)The cfm stayed the same @ .500 and @ .550 (278cfm), so I hope the competition heads make an improvement there. Not that there's anything wrong with that for most street engines, as the low lift numbers are good, but for competition that ain't cutting it. - I'm just wondering how the competition versions will be, as these seem to be mostly a street head. - Thing is my street motor is about to have 1.6 shaft rockers, thus my cam is gonna be 604/624.....
So? My 355 is a 2-bolt block, GM cast crank(although fully deburred, chamfered, etc) and it has no issues turning 7600 and pushing my tank into the 11's. I do have 4340 H-beam rod sthough. Hell, my old man's blown BBC is making around 1200hp on a 2-bolt block and GM steel crank, of course it's got 1/2 tool steel across the caps..... - sorry to be off topic
WOW... nice numbers but they used a 2 bolt block and a cast crank on a motor that makes 540hp? And it sounds like they didn't have to clearence they rods... they bought rods that were made to clear the block with no block work necessary
10-16-2006, 06:58 PM
#171
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Car: 1988 Chevy silverado K5
Engine: 350 bored .030, crane cams hyd bluprint l-79 cam 447 lift 272 dur, camel hump heads port and polished 1.94 1.50, afterburner headers and y pipe, holley 670 cfm tbi, holley projection dual plane manifold, accel high pressure fuel pump, 3 inch exhaust
Transmission: 700 r4 with corvette servo and shift kit.
you do know gm 2 bolts are only rated for 500 hp right? And having already snapped a crank myself cast is not something I'd put in a high power motor.
I'm guessing your running nitrous.
I'm guessing your running nitrous.
10-17-2006, 09:10 AM
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Car: 71 Nova
Engine: Superramed 383, Topline heads
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 8.2 posi 3.08
Did you run a stock cast crank or a nodular iron crank? The Scat 9000 cranks are stronger than the GM lower quality forging. According to Car Craft they have tensile strength of 105,000 psi and 6 percent elongation thats more than %40 stronger than a stock cast crank. Your average cast crank is about 60,000 psi while a 4340 forged piece would be in the 140,000-150,000 psi range. Some ARP studs will make a 2 bolt block plenty strong. Its constant high RPMs that kills a block usually unlike a low rpm stroker.
Last edited by shaggy56; 10-17-2006 at 10:55 AM.
10-17-2006, 01:48 PM
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I have nitrous, but I've never used it, or even finished hooking it up for that matter. My 11.72 best was all motor. Yes, GM 2-bolt block and GM cast crank. - If you're combination is right, you'd be suprised at what both will take. I know of a 750hp bbc turning 7800 on an old Gm cast crank that has more passes than most people will ever make, and it's in a 2-bolt block.
Have you ever actually broken a 2-bolt block where nothing else was at fault? I do have 3 4-bolt main blocks(2 2-piece, 1 hyd roller) but I usually build and sell them because people give more $ for them.
- sorry, I'm off topic again - if anyone wants to continue this, pm me or start a different post.
So does anyone who has the new elim heads have them on yet? Running cars?
Have you ever actually broken a 2-bolt block where nothing else was at fault? I do have 3 4-bolt main blocks(2 2-piece, 1 hyd roller) but I usually build and sell them because people give more $ for them.
- sorry, I'm off topic again - if anyone wants to continue this, pm me or start a different post.
So does anyone who has the new elim heads have them on yet? Running cars?
10-17-2006, 07:19 PM
#174
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Car: 1988 Chevy silverado K5
Engine: 350 bored .030, crane cams hyd bluprint l-79 cam 447 lift 272 dur, camel hump heads port and polished 1.94 1.50, afterburner headers and y pipe, holley 670 cfm tbi, holley projection dual plane manifold, accel high pressure fuel pump, 3 inch exhaust
Transmission: 700 r4 with corvette servo and shift kit.
It was a stocker. I know the scats are stronger but I have a hard time trusting anything that is cast. I dunno, people seem to swear by the scats though.
10-19-2006, 07:49 PM
#175
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hi guys
just wanted to let you all know i finally got my engine running last saturday. its a 400 sbc with 195cc eliminators on it. because i know people will as, it has 9.5 comp, rpm intake, 228/228 .512 hyd FTcam, 1.6 rockers, 750 eddy carb, 1 3/4" headers into dual mandrel 2.5's with x and max flows. it also has a th-350 with 2000 stall, 4.10 rear gears.
anyways, i got my eliminators about 3 weeks ago after an 8 month wait. the 400 that they are on now is in a 75 nova. the 400 used to wear stock sportsman II heads, and with a 224/234 cam, 3.73 gears, the same 2000 stall intake carb, and 2 1/4" pipes ran a 13.10 in the quarter.
the engine feels like it picked up 100 hp with the eliminators. but i havent driven a truely fast car in about a year so my buttmeter could be lieing to me.
i do know the nova absolutely blazes the tires at any rpm in first gear, then it'll stop spinning during the two seconds it takes to get into second gear, then start spinning the tires again in 2nd. at that point i lifted cuz it was bunny hopping. this was on 245/60/14 street tires. ill put on the drag radials when i go for lowest e.t., but this particular drive was the first and just for kicks. the car barely has a lope at 700 rpm in drive.
it FEELS ALOT more powerful than it was when it ran the 13.10. but since im going on vacation saturday for a week, i wont be able to make it to the track until either nov 4th or 11th, which is the last 2 weekends the track is open. if i dont make it to the strip, ill at least get some g-tech times. the best it ran with the sportsmans wqas 4.92 0-60.
but before i do either of those things, i need to get the power steering hooked up and put in the transpak kit so that it no longer takes two seconds to get into second gear. that'll surely burn up my trans if i dont get that fixed.
finally, i paid 1479 through mcquillen racing for mine. but if i had to do it over agian, id go elsewhere. the heads came drilled for CB and perimeter valvecovers. they also were drilled for the temp sender.
just wanted to let you all know i finally got my engine running last saturday. its a 400 sbc with 195cc eliminators on it. because i know people will as, it has 9.5 comp, rpm intake, 228/228 .512 hyd FTcam, 1.6 rockers, 750 eddy carb, 1 3/4" headers into dual mandrel 2.5's with x and max flows. it also has a th-350 with 2000 stall, 4.10 rear gears.
anyways, i got my eliminators about 3 weeks ago after an 8 month wait. the 400 that they are on now is in a 75 nova. the 400 used to wear stock sportsman II heads, and with a 224/234 cam, 3.73 gears, the same 2000 stall intake carb, and 2 1/4" pipes ran a 13.10 in the quarter.
the engine feels like it picked up 100 hp with the eliminators. but i havent driven a truely fast car in about a year so my buttmeter could be lieing to me.
i do know the nova absolutely blazes the tires at any rpm in first gear, then it'll stop spinning during the two seconds it takes to get into second gear, then start spinning the tires again in 2nd. at that point i lifted cuz it was bunny hopping. this was on 245/60/14 street tires. ill put on the drag radials when i go for lowest e.t., but this particular drive was the first and just for kicks. the car barely has a lope at 700 rpm in drive.
it FEELS ALOT more powerful than it was when it ran the 13.10. but since im going on vacation saturday for a week, i wont be able to make it to the track until either nov 4th or 11th, which is the last 2 weekends the track is open. if i dont make it to the strip, ill at least get some g-tech times. the best it ran with the sportsmans wqas 4.92 0-60.
but before i do either of those things, i need to get the power steering hooked up and put in the transpak kit so that it no longer takes two seconds to get into second gear. that'll surely burn up my trans if i dont get that fixed.
finally, i paid 1479 through mcquillen racing for mine. but if i had to do it over agian, id go elsewhere. the heads came drilled for CB and perimeter valvecovers. they also were drilled for the temp sender.
10-19-2006, 09:12 PM
#176
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Car: 1988 Chevy silverado K5
Engine: 350 bored .030, crane cams hyd bluprint l-79 cam 447 lift 272 dur, camel hump heads port and polished 1.94 1.50, afterburner headers and y pipe, holley 670 cfm tbi, holley projection dual plane manifold, accel high pressure fuel pump, 3 inch exhaust
Transmission: 700 r4 with corvette servo and shift kit.
Sounds like they're good heads... Can't wait to hear what your ets are.
LET US KNOW!!!
LET US KNOW!!!
10-19-2006, 11:17 PM
#177
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Car: 01 Z28 / 85 TA
Engine: 346 /355 V8
Transmission: 4L60E /700R4
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt 3.73 / 9bolt 3.27
ScatStroker,
Your web site mentions "Introductory Pricing" on the eliminators. Do you know when AFR will quit offering the eliminators at the introductory price?
Thanks.
Your web site mentions "Introductory Pricing" on the eliminators. Do you know when AFR will quit offering the eliminators at the introductory price?
Thanks.
12-04-2006, 04:22 PM
#178
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Car: 91 Formula WS6 (Black, T-Tops)
Engine: 383 MiniRam (529 HP, 519 TQ - DD2K)
Transmission: Built '97 T56, Pro 5.0, CF-DF
Axle/Gears: 4.11 posi Ford 9"
ScatStroker - you have e-mail from on these heads...
12-04-2006, 04:44 PM
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i recently ran across a post on chevelles.com by tony mamo of afr saying that all owners of the eliminator heads should watch for rapidly wearing valve tips. apparently, nobody at either afr or the supplier of the 8mm valves thought it was necessary to spot check the hardness of the valves with a rockwell tester, OR put these heads through a couple week non stop torture test on an engine dyno. if they had, they should have found the potential problem with the valves.
on a side note, my 400 feels sick. in a bad way. its losing power rapidly to the point where it wont even lay tire from a dead stop now. im convinced the valvetips are wearing. AND the transmission is hurt so there will definately be no e.t.'s until the 700r4 goes in next summer.
on a side note, my 400 feels sick. in a bad way. its losing power rapidly to the point where it wont even lay tire from a dead stop now. im convinced the valvetips are wearing. AND the transmission is hurt so there will definately be no e.t.'s until the 700r4 goes in next summer.
12-04-2006, 05:44 PM
#180
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Car: 91 Z28
Engine: 383 SuperRam
Transmission: ProBuilt 700r4
Axle/Gears: G92 3.23
i called afr on this matter because adperformance told me that they had some bad valves and production was delayed for one week. afr said that it only on the 8mm valves had some softening problems. but all was fixed, but if you got a set that were soft and werent aware, they will replace the heads, plus pay you for the time you took to remove and install them. i also found this thread on ls1tech.com thats very information from tony mamo himself.
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=606635
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=606635
Last edited by QuickStyle; 12-11-2006 at 11:15 PM.
12-04-2006, 06:34 PM
#181
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Car: 1987 1SICIROC.....1999 TransAm
Engine: 385 HSR.....LS1
Transmission: 700R4 with Midwest 3400 2.4str...M6
Axle/Gears: SLP Zexel Posi unit 3.42's...3.73's
I got my heads lastweek ...and they were inspected for that problem before they were shipped out. THat took them an extra week to ge to me..so I should be good to go
12-11-2006, 10:44 PM
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It was a VERY small % of valves that were possibly having issues, the only actual case of a problem was with the LS1 and it was extremely isolated.
Because the Eliminators were also an 8mm stem they were also checked.
I think you'll find most vendors returned their in stock heads to be checked, as AFR covered freight both ways and it was a no loss situation to anyone who had them to check them to be sure. That and most people sell their new Eliminators very quickly means any current heads are probably already checked, as AFR also quit shipping heads when they found the LS1 issue.
Yes, it did cause yet another AFR delay.
Now they shut down the SBC line to move it to the new facility... =/
Brian
Because the Eliminators were also an 8mm stem they were also checked.
I think you'll find most vendors returned their in stock heads to be checked, as AFR covered freight both ways and it was a no loss situation to anyone who had them to check them to be sure. That and most people sell their new Eliminators very quickly means any current heads are probably already checked, as AFR also quit shipping heads when they found the LS1 issue.
Yes, it did cause yet another AFR delay.
Now they shut down the SBC line to move it to the new facility... =/Brian
12-11-2006, 10:58 PM
#183
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Car: 71 Nova
Engine: Superramed 383, Topline heads
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 8.2 posi 3.08
Well I know a non LS owner who is upset and he doesnt feel to proud about his circumstance. Im sure its not an isolated incident. He is pretty pissed because he has metal shavings running through his entire engine and seems like he is up ***** creek and will probably have to rebuild.
12-11-2006, 11:52 PM
#184
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Car: '90 Trans Am-12.45@110.71
Engine: 355 w/AFR 195's Elem. 400/430 HP/TQ
Transmission: Tremec T-56
Axle/Gears: 12 Bolt 3.73
I'm with Madmax all the way down the line.
I can't see any reason anybody would want to put up with all the crap that comes with AFR's for our cars.
If you are going for all out record setting #'s with NHRA ok fine, but for what we do with our cars....all I can say is ...WHY?
Vern, not to be a naysayer, but why do you think they changed the 195's?
(I won't answer that)
I have built quite a few good motors around here and most use TFW's
They are all making good HP numbers and none went through all the crap you others have had with AFR.
I too, have had personal experience with AFR in the past, and can not see any reason to spend that kind of money for the little difference and bull crap.
Oh, and they are heavy, like we need that kind of strengh on our stuff.
Like Madmax said, maybe now they see the need to fix things, since others are making good products for less.
Just my $.02
I can't see any reason anybody would want to put up with all the crap that comes with AFR's for our cars.
If you are going for all out record setting #'s with NHRA ok fine, but for what we do with our cars....all I can say is ...WHY?
Vern, not to be a naysayer, but why do you think they changed the 195's?
(I won't answer that)
I have built quite a few good motors around here and most use TFW's
They are all making good HP numbers and none went through all the crap you others have had with AFR.
I too, have had personal experience with AFR in the past, and can not see any reason to spend that kind of money for the little difference and bull crap.
Oh, and they are heavy, like we need that kind of strengh on our stuff.
Like Madmax said, maybe now they see the need to fix things, since others are making good products for less.
Just my $.02
12-13-2006, 06:10 PM
#187
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Engine: sbc
heads
Some people dont intend to make enough power to need AFR,s so be it.You cannot by another brand of heads, then pay for professional porting and end up with less money in them than AFR,s price.You dont just compare max flow at max lift either. Remember that on a cam lobe you see all low lift increments going up one side to peak lobe lift then see them coming down the other side as the valve is open all this time.If you want a better comparison on heads add all cfm numbers getting up to peak lift twice, add peak lift once, then divide by amont of increments. If there is an independent non bias test showing better flowing heads for the price please post it, Im shure many people would be interested.With EFI there are manifolds limiting power but a few offer good power making capability.There is no reason not to have a pump gas 383 that will run in the 11,s with a mild 3.50 ish gear with correct choice of parts. You can purchase what seems to be the best, or save some money and power and make less. Best wishes with your choices and HO HO HO.
12-13-2006, 07:39 PM
#188
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Car: 71 Nova
Engine: Superramed 383, Topline heads
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 8.2 posi 3.08
I can show you some power numbers with ported Dart Pro 1 heads that do pretty damn well maybe better than AFRs.
Dart Pro-1 215CC Dyno Test + Flow Numbers
Pushrod Area Choke Testing
i just finished a series of Dyno Tests using Dart Pro-1 aluminum SBC
215 CC Heads
SF-600 FlowBench Data (Ported but unwelded, 1st series of Tests)
Manley Valves= 2.125" Int +.100 Long 1.600" Exh +.100 Long
4.125 Flow Fixture No-Pipe on Exhaust Port
Lift---Intake--Exhaust
.200--146.6--111.0
.300--215.5--161.3
.400--260.0--203.8
.450--279.0
.500--293.5--228.4
.550--300.8
.600--304.0--239.7
.650--307.0
.700--310.6--243.7
.750--315.8
.800--318.8--243.3
.850--320.8
Comments=> Speed FPS too high at pushrods
Engine Specs=> 4.165 Bore x 3.875 Stroke = 422.4 CID
GM "Bowtie" Intake Manifold max-ported + reworked plenum
with Moroso #65000 2 inch Dominator adapter
Dart Pro-1 215CC 2.125/1.600 max-ported but unwelded @ pushrods
HP-1250 Carb
C-16 Race Gas
MSD Distributor
Diamond Pistons 14:1 CR 224 Cranking psi
Cam Motion solid roller .776"/.743" Lift 284/300 Duration @.050"
112 Centers on 108 CL .025" lash across hot
Cam Motion Red Rockers 1.65/1.65 Ratios
RPM--Torque---HP--SF-901 Dyno Data @ 600 RPM/SEC
5500--551.0---577.1
5600--553.2---589.8
5700--556.5---603.9
5800--557.6---615.7
5900--558.8---627.7
6000--562.1---642.1
6100--560.6---651.1
6200--560.2---661.3
6300--558.1---669.4
6400--555.7---677.2
6500--550.4---681.2
6600--549.3---690.3
6700--547.7---698.7
6800--543.3---703.4
6900--531.6---698.4
7000--524.5---699.1
7100--509.9---689.3
7200--509.0---697.8
7300--500.5---695.6
7400--492.6---694.1
7500--481.5---687.6
7600--475.3---687.8
Avg=> TQ=535.9 HP=665.4 Fuel=260.2 Lbs from 5500-7600 RPM
Note Fuel= 260.2 Lbs. avg from 5500-7600
************************************************** ******
2nd Test Series Results
with Welded Heads at Pushrod area + slight more Short Turn rework
with widened Port's pushrod area
Pushrod area outside wall thickness = .040"
with Offset Lifters + Crane 1.65 Offset Rockers
SF-600 FlowBench Data
Manley Valves= 2.125" Int +.100 Long 1.600" Exh +.100 Long
4.125 Flow Fixture No-Pipe on Exhaust Port
Lift---Intake--Exhaust
.200--146.6--111.0
.300--215.5--161.3
.400--262.0--203.8
.450--278.0
.500--293.5--228.4
.550--302.0
.600--314.0--239.7
.650--317.5
.700--319.1--243.7
.750--321.4
.800--323.4--243.3
.850--325.4
Slowed down Speed FPS @ pushrod area to more acceptable level
RPM--Torque---HP--SF-901 Dyno Data @ 600 RPM/SEC
5500--555.0---581.2
5600--555.4---592.2
5700--560.2---607.9
5800--561.3---619.9
5900--565.6---635.3
6000--566.4---647.1
6100--570.6---662.7
6200--568.7---671.3
6300--567.3---680.5
6400--567.8---691.9
6500--563.1---696.8
6600--555.2---697.7
6700--554.1---707.3
6800--551.3---713.7
6900--538.8---707.9
7000--540.8---720.8
7100--527.9---713.7
7200--518.3---710.6
7300--517.3---719.0
7400--511.5---720.6
7500--503.8---719.4
7600--492.9---713.3
7700--489.9---717.5
7800--480.7---713.8
Avg=> TQ=546.1 HP=678.7 Fuel=258.5 Lbs from 5500-7600 RPM
Note Fuel= 258.5 Lbs. avg from 5500-7600
With AirSpeed @ Pushrod area slowed down to more acceptable level,
Engine has a better Torque + HP Curve..especially after RPM point
of Peak HP
and using about the same amount of Fuel
Note= my Dyno is on conservative side,
so 720 HP on my Dyno at 600 rpm/sec
could be 740 to as much as 770 Hp on other Dynos
especially at slower test rates.
likewise FlowBench is about 10-15+ CFM numbers on conservative side
Pushrod Area Choke Testing
i just finished a series of Dyno Tests using Dart Pro-1 aluminum SBC
215 CC Heads
SF-600 FlowBench Data (Ported but unwelded, 1st series of Tests)
Manley Valves= 2.125" Int +.100 Long 1.600" Exh +.100 Long
4.125 Flow Fixture No-Pipe on Exhaust Port
Lift---Intake--Exhaust
.200--146.6--111.0
.300--215.5--161.3
.400--260.0--203.8
.450--279.0
.500--293.5--228.4
.550--300.8
.600--304.0--239.7
.650--307.0
.700--310.6--243.7
.750--315.8
.800--318.8--243.3
.850--320.8
Comments=> Speed FPS too high at pushrods
Engine Specs=> 4.165 Bore x 3.875 Stroke = 422.4 CID
GM "Bowtie" Intake Manifold max-ported + reworked plenum
with Moroso #65000 2 inch Dominator adapter
Dart Pro-1 215CC 2.125/1.600 max-ported but unwelded @ pushrods
HP-1250 Carb
C-16 Race Gas
MSD Distributor
Diamond Pistons 14:1 CR 224 Cranking psi
Cam Motion solid roller .776"/.743" Lift 284/300 Duration @.050"
112 Centers on 108 CL .025" lash across hot
Cam Motion Red Rockers 1.65/1.65 Ratios
RPM--Torque---HP--SF-901 Dyno Data @ 600 RPM/SEC
5500--551.0---577.1
5600--553.2---589.8
5700--556.5---603.9
5800--557.6---615.7
5900--558.8---627.7
6000--562.1---642.1
6100--560.6---651.1
6200--560.2---661.3
6300--558.1---669.4
6400--555.7---677.2
6500--550.4---681.2
6600--549.3---690.3
6700--547.7---698.7
6800--543.3---703.4
6900--531.6---698.4
7000--524.5---699.1
7100--509.9---689.3
7200--509.0---697.8
7300--500.5---695.6
7400--492.6---694.1
7500--481.5---687.6
7600--475.3---687.8
Avg=> TQ=535.9 HP=665.4 Fuel=260.2 Lbs from 5500-7600 RPM
Note Fuel= 260.2 Lbs. avg from 5500-7600
************************************************** ******
2nd Test Series Results
with Welded Heads at Pushrod area + slight more Short Turn rework
with widened Port's pushrod area
Pushrod area outside wall thickness = .040"
with Offset Lifters + Crane 1.65 Offset Rockers
SF-600 FlowBench Data
Manley Valves= 2.125" Int +.100 Long 1.600" Exh +.100 Long
4.125 Flow Fixture No-Pipe on Exhaust Port
Lift---Intake--Exhaust
.200--146.6--111.0
.300--215.5--161.3
.400--262.0--203.8
.450--278.0
.500--293.5--228.4
.550--302.0
.600--314.0--239.7
.650--317.5
.700--319.1--243.7
.750--321.4
.800--323.4--243.3
.850--325.4
Slowed down Speed FPS @ pushrod area to more acceptable level
RPM--Torque---HP--SF-901 Dyno Data @ 600 RPM/SEC
5500--555.0---581.2
5600--555.4---592.2
5700--560.2---607.9
5800--561.3---619.9
5900--565.6---635.3
6000--566.4---647.1
6100--570.6---662.7
6200--568.7---671.3
6300--567.3---680.5
6400--567.8---691.9
6500--563.1---696.8
6600--555.2---697.7
6700--554.1---707.3
6800--551.3---713.7
6900--538.8---707.9
7000--540.8---720.8
7100--527.9---713.7
7200--518.3---710.6
7300--517.3---719.0
7400--511.5---720.6
7500--503.8---719.4
7600--492.9---713.3
7700--489.9---717.5
7800--480.7---713.8
Avg=> TQ=546.1 HP=678.7 Fuel=258.5 Lbs from 5500-7600 RPM
Note Fuel= 258.5 Lbs. avg from 5500-7600
With AirSpeed @ Pushrod area slowed down to more acceptable level,
Engine has a better Torque + HP Curve..especially after RPM point
of Peak HP
and using about the same amount of Fuel
Note= my Dyno is on conservative side,
so 720 HP on my Dyno at 600 rpm/sec
could be 740 to as much as 770 Hp on other Dynos
especially at slower test rates.
likewise FlowBench is about 10-15+ CFM numbers on conservative side
Last edited by shaggy56; 12-13-2006 at 07:47 PM.
12-13-2006, 08:14 PM
#189
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Damn, AFR must have some GREAT marketing. All these people that swear by them and have probably never even run them. So, when are some people going to actually post some times of AFR headed cars?
12-13-2006, 09:06 PM
#190
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Engine: sbc
heads
I agree there are many good head porters in the country, and 14:1 motors will make more power. To bad race gas cost out the a_ _.Still waiting for independent head flow comparisons by non biased professional shop showing a better head for the dollar. And know my heads are not Afr but are done by a Professional head porter as this way is the only to obtain near max results.Im tired of having metal dug out of my eyes and so fourth. If out of the box heads were called for there would not be much to choose from though for power for the dollar, Hands down AFR. So far there has been a few magazines due flow tests,go check them and if there results were not to your satisfaction take it up with them. My friends own shops with dynos and flow benches and most of my friends work at machine shops. I have no intentions of leading anybody a stray.And would only report what I have seen.Nobody could pay me to say there product rocked, Im not for sale. MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL. And may your heads make the power you hope for?
12-14-2006, 02:33 PM
#191
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Car: projects.......
I know this is like the millionth time, but my question has yet to be answered...so.....
My combo:
- short block -
350 +.030(355) GM cast crank, GM 2-bolt hyd roller block, 4340 5.7 floated H-beam rods, Dynagear hyper flat-top pistons(very close to zero deck)
- heads/valvetrain/induction -
topline 200cc aluminum heads CNC chambers - as cast ports, manley street master 2.02/1.6 valves, double roller springs (around 130lbs seat), Doug Herbert billet roller cam(cut for late-model retainer plate) 242/248 @.050 duration, 567/585 lift @ valve, Comp magnum 1.5 roller rockers, cam in @ 110 (straight up), billet double roller timing set, Weiand Team-G single plane (low rise) phenolic 1/2 4-hole spacer with NOS powershot plate underneath(un-used), 750 vac secondaries with jet block
- exhaust -
Headman LT's, 2.5 duals with Headman x-pipe, Hooker maxflow mufflers, dumps
- driveline -
3.73 gears, WC T5, Hays borg&beck roller assist psi plate (mechanical linkage), hays street/strip disc, 315/35/17 rear tires
- suspension/chassis -
all homemade - box sfc's - more like "in-floor-frame", 8-point roll bar, tube tq arm (about 6" shorter than factory, -6 pinion angle), box lca's with poly bushings, relocates (bars set parrallel to ground), factory panhard, monroe sensa-junk shocks, eibach sportline springs - large stereo/rear batteries aid traction
vert with all creature comforts available - 4001lbs w/o me
1.66 60ft, 11.72 @ 130 - at Orlando Speedworld (speed normally high)
1.66 60ft, 11.72 @ 126 at Bradenton
I have YET to hit the bottle or fully hook it up for that matter. I have $1000 in the heads, all new, all purchased mail-order, ZERO porting/machining other than 5-angle valve job.
Any comparable AFR headed cars out there?
My combo:
- short block -
350 +.030(355) GM cast crank, GM 2-bolt hyd roller block, 4340 5.7 floated H-beam rods, Dynagear hyper flat-top pistons(very close to zero deck)
- heads/valvetrain/induction -
topline 200cc aluminum heads CNC chambers - as cast ports, manley street master 2.02/1.6 valves, double roller springs (around 130lbs seat), Doug Herbert billet roller cam(cut for late-model retainer plate) 242/248 @.050 duration, 567/585 lift @ valve, Comp magnum 1.5 roller rockers, cam in @ 110 (straight up), billet double roller timing set, Weiand Team-G single plane (low rise) phenolic 1/2 4-hole spacer with NOS powershot plate underneath(un-used), 750 vac secondaries with jet block
- exhaust -
Headman LT's, 2.5 duals with Headman x-pipe, Hooker maxflow mufflers, dumps
- driveline -
3.73 gears, WC T5, Hays borg&beck roller assist psi plate (mechanical linkage), hays street/strip disc, 315/35/17 rear tires
- suspension/chassis -
all homemade - box sfc's - more like "in-floor-frame", 8-point roll bar, tube tq arm (about 6" shorter than factory, -6 pinion angle), box lca's with poly bushings, relocates (bars set parrallel to ground), factory panhard, monroe sensa-junk shocks, eibach sportline springs - large stereo/rear batteries aid traction
vert with all creature comforts available - 4001lbs w/o me
1.66 60ft, 11.72 @ 130 - at Orlando Speedworld (speed normally high)
1.66 60ft, 11.72 @ 126 at Bradenton
I have YET to hit the bottle or fully hook it up for that matter. I have $1000 in the heads, all new, all purchased mail-order, ZERO porting/machining other than 5-angle valve job.
Any comparable AFR headed cars out there?
12-14-2006, 05:32 PM
#192
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Engine: sbc
AFR heads
Please revert back to opening thread. Anybody hear anything on the newly released AFR heads, flow numbers or revisions? Those defending the parts that they have chosen or those wanting to debate power combos and ET, might want to start a different thread . Im sure with all the variables involved it would get a lot of hits.
12-14-2006, 09:53 PM
#193
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Car: 1987 1SICIROC.....1999 TransAm
Engine: 385 HSR.....LS1
Transmission: 700R4 with Midwest 3400 2.4str...M6
Axle/Gears: SLP Zexel Posi unit 3.42's...3.73's
shagwell!...you car kicks *** for being 4001lbs and then some with you in it.
I hope to run some of those numbers...my full wieght with me in it will be about 3400
I hope to run some of those numbers...my full wieght with me in it will be about 3400
12-15-2006, 02:25 PM
#194
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Car: projects.......
Please revert back to opening thread. Anybody hear anything on the newly released AFR heads, flow numbers or revisions? Those defending the parts that they have chosen or those wanting to debate power combos and ET, might want to start a different thread . Im sure with all the variables involved it would get a lot of hits
- My point has been that you can make as much power with a less expensive head. Not sure about that larger sizes, but with a cam of my size or larger, I would loose power with the afr's, as cfm doesn't increase from .500 to .550 lift. - As you stated, this is off topic, so I'm done here 'till someone posts some #'s.
shagwell!...you car kicks *** for being 4001lbs and then some with you in it.
I hope to run some of those numbers...my full wieght with me in it will be about 3400
I hope to run some of those numbers...my full wieght with me in it will be about 3400
Last edited by Shagwell; 12-18-2006 at 01:28 PM.
12-16-2006, 06:38 PM
#195
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Car: 89' T/A, 00' Firehawk
Engine: 406 Roller
Transmission: TH700R4 w/2800 stall
Axle/Gears: 3.23 Posi
In response to the ported dart pro 1 heads, why do you want a street motor that makes power at 7600rpm?
12-16-2006, 07:42 PM
#196
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Car: 71 Nova
Engine: Superramed 383, Topline heads
Transmission: 700r4
Axle/Gears: 8.2 posi 3.08
If you didnt want that kind of power you could go for a smaller CC head and do minimal porting instead and still end up with a fine head. Of course you can make anything work with the right cam and combination even with these highly ported Dart heads. I was going to put the CNC'ed Dart heads on a "street" engine I want to build but a pro engine builder suggested they may even be too small and an 18 degree might be better.
Last edited by shaggy56; 12-16-2006 at 08:27 PM.
12-18-2006, 08:55 AM
#197
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Car: 87IROC/88GTA/02Sierra/04GrandPrix
Engine: 406 / 305 / 4.8 / 3.8
Transmission: T56 / T5 / 4L60e / ??
Axle/Gears: 3.70 / 3.45 / 3.42 / ??
All personal choice....
I could care less what brand of heads anyone uses. I have yet to see another head manufacturer really compete with AFR out of the box for airflow AND have the same cc intake ports. But airflow isn't everything, far from it. Even dyno comparisons aren't necessarily fair comparisons. It all boils down to how well you match components. Different heads like different cam profiles and pistons, intakes, etc. different dynos will give different numbers on the same engine any given day, different dragstrips will yeild different results even for the same car on the same day all based on setup, track conditions and drivers ability.
Guess what I'm saying is, debate all you want, someone will just come back with something to the contrary.
The point of this thread was to find out information on the new AFR eliminators, thats it.
I am currently building another 406 small block, and AFR 210 eliminators are on their way (early feb delivery expected). I am looking to produce 600ish hp at 6500 to 7000rpm, but I also want near 400 ft-lbs of torque at 2000rpm and still have a peak torque over 500lb-ft at 5000rpm. Is it a challenge? Yes. Is it a risk? Yes. Will I succeed in meeting these goals on pump gas? Possibly. Could I reach these goals with another brands out of the box heads? It doesn't matter. I could run NOS to get big power, and the rest of the time cruise around with better road manners on a milder engine, but I want nothing to do with NOS.
I will provide dyno results when I get them. But it will be a while, it will be early summer before I get it together.
I will also post flow bench data within a week of when the heads arrive.
Guess what I'm saying is, debate all you want, someone will just come back with something to the contrary.
The point of this thread was to find out information on the new AFR eliminators, thats it.
I am currently building another 406 small block, and AFR 210 eliminators are on their way (early feb delivery expected). I am looking to produce 600ish hp at 6500 to 7000rpm, but I also want near 400 ft-lbs of torque at 2000rpm and still have a peak torque over 500lb-ft at 5000rpm. Is it a challenge? Yes. Is it a risk? Yes. Will I succeed in meeting these goals on pump gas? Possibly. Could I reach these goals with another brands out of the box heads? It doesn't matter. I could run NOS to get big power, and the rest of the time cruise around with better road manners on a milder engine, but I want nothing to do with NOS.
I will provide dyno results when I get them. But it will be a while, it will be early summer before I get it together.
I will also post flow bench data within a week of when the heads arrive.
12-18-2006, 12:19 PM
#198
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Car: 92 Z28 convertible
Engine: Miniram 383
Transmission: T-56
Axle/Gears: 4.10 stk 10 bolt
The point of this thread was to find out information on the new AFR eliminators, thats it.
I am currently building another 406 small block, and AFR 210 eliminators are on their way (early feb delivery expected).
I will also post flow bench data within a week of when the heads arrive.
I am currently building another 406 small block, and AFR 210 eliminators are on their way (early feb delivery expected).
I will also post flow bench data within a week of when the heads arrive.
Amen! Are you going to get the 210 Comp versions? I want a set of thoes!
12-18-2006, 02:16 PM
#199
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Car: 87IROC/88GTA/02Sierra/04GrandPrix
Engine: 406 / 305 / 4.8 / 3.8
Transmission: T56 / T5 / 4L60e / ??
Axle/Gears: 3.70 / 3.45 / 3.42 / ??
I ordered the race ready version, I could not justify the comp price tag at the time of ordering........but that was back before I started looking at a solid roller cam, jesel shaft mount rockers and a scat rotating assembly.....looking at it now, I wonder if I should call before they send them and upgrade to the comps.... my budget is blown anyway
