DNSTA

O.K. I'll admit it. I've been a member of this board for a couple of years but only posted like 3 times. I'd rather give no advice than bad advice. On to my VERY important question.

The time has come to spend lots of money on the most important part of my engine, the heads. I'll save everyone a lot of time and get to it. I'm looking at either E-TEC 200's or Victor Jr.'s. The motor is going to be primarely a street motor but I will take it to the track (Milan, MI). I want the car to be able to consistently win in light-to-light battles but also pull dyno numbers that will allow me to brag to my 4th gen friends. I am fully versed in every technical aspect of these heads so I don't need to hear that 200cc runners are better for the street than 215cc runners. I don't need to hear "but you'll need to get a special manifold to run the E-TEC's" no ****! What I do need to hear are your opinions on the performance and streetability of these heads. Will there be a noticable difference with the Victor Jr's or should I keep the superior combustion chamber design of the vortec style E-TEC's?

To help you decide here are my engine specs...
-77' block 355, flat-top pistons with 4cc reliefs. Yield 10.5:1 with 64cc heads.

-Intake to be determined by heads choice. Suggestions??

-Holley 750 DP

-MSD 6AL, Stock HEI, 8mm wires, again plugs to be determined.

-Flowtech shorty headers to single 3" back. No cat.

-Comp cams .507/.507, 244* duration at .050, 110* lobe seperation.

-World class T-5

-Auburn Posied, 4:11, 7.5" 10 bolt.

I am looking to get these heads by the weekend, 6/25/2005 , so please give me any and all info as soon as possible. I will check the board twice a day when possible.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

cam seems really small for the victor heads. honestly i think you'll be happier with the E-tecs although i have seen back to back dyno results and factory vortecs were within 8hp peak numbers as the E-tec heads. so you may want to consider that. the cam you choose would have to be much more radical to take advantage of the victor heads which are meant more for a track car with huge compression and big duration. honestly if you're going to spend the coin do it right and buy the AFRs instead. some nice 190s with a CNC port job would better serve you.

DNSTA

Now thats exactually what I wanted. Someones informed opinion. Thank you. Now. This is not the first time someone has said get the AFR's over any other head. Are they really that great? I mean, the flow numbers are not the best I have ever seen. They don't have the advantage of the Vortec chamber. On top of that they seem to be about $200 more than the competition and I've read on this board that the valvetrain hardware is no good! I don't want to put money into $1400 heads as soon as I get them for the sake of 10HP. If they are that much better and should be considered far above the Edelbrocks please correct me.

Blackroc86

I would go for the Vic Jr's. That way if you decide you want to make more power later you won't be rebuying heads. I have the Fastburn heads and I wish I had gone with the Vic Jr's now.

Trevor86TA

You could get the AFRs bare and furnish them yourself if you so desire.

1 5/8" shorty headers are really going to hurt either set of heads.

Trevor86TA

Whoops. Didn't mean to hit post yet.

What is the bottom end made of? Are you planning on switching cams? Dual or single plane intake?

Are you more concerned with dyno #s (ie. peak hp) or stop light performance (a nice flat torque curve). You have to pick which is more important.

KiLLJ0Y

iTrader: (1)

look at trick flow Kenny Dutwhiler(cant spell) heads before you make a decission.. the ones with CNC porting flow really well.

DNSTA

Thank you all for the fast and honest responses. I'll try to address all the posts. I see the point on the headers and the cam. Headers are cheap and easy compared to heads so no concerns there. I had never really thought about a cam swap (was trying to keep the idle under 900rpm) but if that is the limiting factor then I will swap it out.

Had a whole day to think about it and remembered that not only are the AFR's more expensive to begin with but they are 67cc not 64cc! Add $100 of machine work at least to the bill. (Would get the 70 whatever cc ones and have them milled to 64cc anyway, heard they flow better, different casting.)

I'm really looking to achieve the best mix between street and strip (isn't everybody) but with the nod to the street. Now when I say street I don't mean stop and go city driving or going to work 5 days a week. I more mean an acceptable idle, under 900rpm, and if possible double digits on gas mileage. (preferably 13-15, I know wishful thinking!)

I haven't head too many good thing about Trickflow heads. Nothing too bad but not nearly as much good stuff as AFR.

I hate to bring another problem to the table but...what about Dart?

Free Bird

iTrader: (1)

Since when did a 244* cam become small in a 350? Maybe I'm just used to comp controlled cars but mine idles at 950 w/a 230/244* cam. I always thought it was a little big.

As for heads, I didn't jump on the AFR wagon either. 1 - the price. They req' machine work the second you get them, and their springs are weak. Not to mention they're on back order for at LEAST 7 weeks at a time.

My protoplines showed up at my door in 4 days and I saved around 400, even after the optional (more expensive) springs. Oh, and they flow just as well as an AFR.

Don't get me wrong, never cheap out on heads. But don't get ripped off either. If you can find a great head for less money, then go for it.

As for the darts, they're good heads, but req' porting to unleash their full potential.

DNSTA

My thoughts exatally on the cam, Free Bird. I like everything you have to say! One problem. Can't seem to find any ProToplines around any more. If you know of any please let me know. Looking for 64cc, 190-200cc intake runners, at least 250cfm on intake at .500 and .550 lift springs. I know, asking a lot but I know a few manufactures that can deliver.

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

I'm using the E-tec 200's and have not yet reached their full potential (need a bit more tuning) and the price is decent.
They flow 260-204 @ .550 lift.
see sig.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

dyno don.....not to knock your times but people have been doing 11.90s to 12.00s on factory vortec heads. I have not seen anyone really do anything impressive with the E-Tec heads that someone hasn't gone just as fast with factory $550 heads from scoggin dickey for the bigger springs and cut valve guides.

But this guy needs to figure out how fast exactly he wants to go and decide from there. and if he was thinking of a victor head a .507 lift cam is small considering most are running in the .600 range with those heads for their full potential, i believe they continue flowing more and more to .700 IIRC.

Honestly a Comp XE274 cam, a 3500 stall, 4.10s, 28" slick, vortec heads, and a 750 dp carb will net him low 12s pretty easily. So it's really a matter of how fast do you wanna go?

DNSTA

O.K. no heads this weekend. Too many questions. E-TEC's are out!! Victor Jr.'s are out!! AFR's are out!! (Not because I don't want them but because I can't phsically get them!) There's a 2 month backorder on the Street 195's and every dealer in MI has none. (Ohio and Indiana too)

How about Canfield?? Good flow numbers, decent parts, big valves, 195cc or 200cc runners (can't remember). Sound good, about the same price as the E-TEC's or the Vic Jr's. so.......

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

@ 3800 lbs. with the driver????

Free Bird

iTrader: (1)

Prove it. No porting, no valve work, out of the box I wanna see ONE single guy running 11.9X consistantly w/ vortec heads on a 350 in a street car.

Cruz'N Bruz'R

DNSTA, look up a place called Shaver racing Engines. i believe they are out of California. They are "THE" only authorized Pro Topline dealer in North America. If anybody else says they are, then there full of it. Thjey buy them from Shaver first, then sell them to you.
I got this information right from Aukland New Zealand, head office.
Anyways, I was talking to Bob, or Ron, one of them. I ordered a set of 200cc Lightnings. It took a while to get them, because they were waiting on the next batch. they are a pretty good head. nothing crazy. i still have good bottom end, off idle, with a 650DP, and a crazy top end pull. I don't believe their advertised flow numbers, bthen I don't believe any heads advertised flow numbers. i got them for around $1200 CAN, which at that time after duty and all is about $800 your dollar.
Talk to them. Get all the information you can before buying. Don't just run out and buy a set of heads because they're "available quickly".
And I know AFR is whored out on this site hardcore because everybody and they're dog has them. But AFR used to sell ProTopline in NA, and they dropped them for a reason. They're comparable in performance, but not in price.

xpndbl3

iTrader: (5)

look up old posts from a guy who's name on here was "ponykiller" i believe. someone out there should remember this. also there's a guy in chicago running those heads with a solid cam and 12:1 compression on race gas in a G body with some fiberglass parts and lexan windows doing 11.50s with them, but that's a really light car. fiberglass front end, etc. just had the guides cut down and new springs and screw in studs.

DNSTA

I made a choice. I actually ended up going with a head that we did not even discuss. I got a set of Canfields. They are 200cc runners, 64cc chambers, comp springs, ferra valves (2.055, 1.60), arp screw-in studs, and guide plates. Got them for $1150 shipped. Dyno results look go on similar setups and they have great mid-lift flow numbers. Please let me know what you guys think.

AutoRoc

iTrader: (1)

I still have an E-Tec 200 top end package on the east side of Michigan for sale. Well over $3000 in parts/machine and port work. Let me know if you're interested.

E-Tec 200 (Solid Roller Ported Heads FRESH from ET Performance)
RPM Air Gap Port Matched
Comp Cams Pro Mag 1.6 rocker arms
ProForm HEI Distributor(red large cap)
Chrome Timing Cover/Chrome Valvecovers
Comp Cams Pushrods
Head Bolts/Front cover bolts and Valvecover T-Handle studs
New Gaskets for Intake Manifold/Heads/Valvecovers
Water Neck and 160 thermostat still installed.



$2000+Shipping for the whole package




The heads alone were $1100 and have $1500 more INTO them. 1.55" Comp dual springs, Trick Titanium retainers, Comp locks, longer stainless valves, valvejob, seals, pocket machining, runner portwork, serious pocketwork behind valves, 100% combustion chamber polishing. Chambers are 64cc, Intake port measures 210cc, exhaust port measures 83cc.

I went to a standard Dart 230 head on a new combo and all of this HAS to go. Camshaft and cubic inch will be a factor on power output obviously but no doubt it will be a very stout street/strip combo with a killer midrange and top end to boot. Detailed Head/Intake pics can be emailed. Thanks!

Free Bird

iTrader: (1)

The valves and bowls have been worked. I stated "off the shelf".

And I'm not even going to touch the lexan windows, fiber front end, 12:1 RACE car that only runs 11.50's.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

hey dyno don, why do you only trap 5mph faster than my 305 auto?

i know that you HAD to have spent more money on your combo then i did on mine...what gives?

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

I can answer that but I'll give Don the last word.

That 5 miles per hour relates to around 50 horsepower. About the difference between your 310 and Don's 355. His trap time is at least 7 tenths faster which relates to 70 horsepower.

Last but not least have you ran at the same track as Don? Tracks can make a world of difference. I believe my car would be in the 12.5's at some tracks in the country. Good luck with your combo. You have done good with your 305. Allen

Note: as to the other question on seeing Voctecs run 11's. I believe that but with TPI and in a full weight street driven car as Don has and with all the accessories?

Free Bird

iTrader: (1)

I believe the vortecs can do it too, just not in a full weight f-body w/o a big stall, gear, etc. And also not out of the box. No port job is the same, so once you touch the head, it's a whole new ball game. I've yet to see it, and to be completely honest, I'd have to see more than one car that has done it before I call it probable. It's possible, but then again, so are flying monkeys.

Manic Z

iTrader: (1)

You don't need alot of cam if your heads run the numbers.

Knaw'm'sain?