ljnowell

I just got my new summit catalog today, and listed in the new stuff is some new heads by summit. They are supposed to be new castings based off of the old "double hump" heads. A friend of mine is thinking about buying a set, anyone here heard anything yet? Here is a link:

http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...Ntt=sum-152123

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Well I'll be... It is about time that Summit came out with some heads to compete with the various Jegs sets. Who would have thought it would be the double humpers. Nice find.

ljnowell

I'm just not sure if they really flow all that well. They didnt list any flow charts, so that makes it a little suspicious.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

I have yet to see flow numbers for the Jegs heads as well. They only give what seems to be fictitious dyno numbers.

ljnowell

Exactly, I would definately hate to get suckered into a bad deal on heads. I am currently shopping around, but I think I am going to go aluminum. I have pretty much settled on the Kenny Duttweller Trickflows. After looking at all the different flow charts, and comparing runner sizes, etc, they seem to be the best deal. I was told that the Dart Pro 1's are fantastic, but Trickflows beat the darts from .100 all the way through .700 lift.

89Warbird

I hate to throw water on the fire, but double hump heads aren't very good. In there day they were great, but they have a poor port design and an even worse combustion chamber. A set of Vortec's are leaps and bounds better, will outflow them, get better emissions, better fuel economy and are more detonation resistant. Our L98 heads are better than double humps.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

This sounds like a wise choice. I have been reading more and more good things about trick flow heads lately.

Cruz'N Bruz'R

I pulled 401 hp on my old double humps, just port matched. with a mild cam 383. There's no way L98 heads would even come close.

John Millican

iTrader: (1)

Summit has always had their own heads. Trick Flow is owned by Summit Racing.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Learn somthing new every day.

fb305svs

check out my setup for info ont he trickflow heads... for ther buck, you cant beat em i think...

click on the pictures link, the dyno chart is in there..

http://www.ss-perf.com/steves91.htm

ljnowell

Double humps had potential. I have seen double humps making in excess of 400hp on LOTS of engines. Not just a few, LOTS. Yes, they were better back then, in the days of high octane leaded gas, when there were no aftermarket heads. I believe the point to be made though, is that these are cheap, and better than a regular stock head. And no, the L98 heads arent any better really. Find me a set with 2.02 1.60s that retain at least a 67cc chamber, that dont have shrouded valves.


I didnt know that trickflow was owned by summit, but that makes sense. That would be why the flowcharts are there for trickflows and nothing else. also why they have 4 pages of TFs, and 2 pages of everything else! I think what shifty meant though, is that they finally have heads with thier name on it, like the new jegs heads.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Thats exactly what I meant.

89Warbird

Okay, I stand corrected, I was looking at data on a 1.94/1.50 double hump head. The 2.02/1.60 has better flow numbers, however when put on the exact same engine the L-98 heads made the exact same power as the double humps and Vortec's torched them both. So, basically the double humps gain you nothing over stock L98 heads unless you port them. And Vortec's well, say YES to more power.

No this isn't theoretical or DD2000, this is from actual flow bench and dyno information.

ljnowell

Many people dont want to switch to vortecs, for various reasons. I myself dont want to because I dont like the special manifold.

I really dont think that these heads are an exact copy. I'm sure they have made some modifications to them.

I wouldnt buy them, regardless. I wouldnt waste the money on a stock styled head, which is another reason I wont buy the vortec heads. For the money, I would rather have a good aftermarket head. I am getting ready to buy some trickflows myself in the next month.

tom3

I'm thinking $650 for a set of iron remakes of the old heads is not the way to go. Spend a bit more and get aluminum with the redesigned chambers and better flowing ports.

LilJayV10

iTrader: (5)

You might want to check out darts new platinum line. They are supposed to flow 15% more air than their iron eagle heads, and are supposed to outflow the protopline 220 heads.

As far as I know the vortec heads way outflow the old double hump heads, the only problem with the vortec heads is you have to buy an intake, but if you need to buy a new intake anyway, it's not that big of deal.


oh, and if summit heads are like most summit products, someone else makes them, I'd be interested in seeing who actually makes these heads.

ljnowell

You and me both man. I would like to see a flowchart of these heads. That is conspicuosly missing from the advertisements.

ditchbangr

iTrader: (1)

Jegs heads are cast by canfield. Canfield also has to pay for copying the exhaust port on the ford street heat trick flow head. For every set of sbf raised ex. port heads whether canfield or the Z304 FRPP head canfield donates to TFS. Personally I like TFS stuff because of value and innovation. But brodix is where it is at with sbc heads.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Alum l98's would spank those old heads in a heartbeat.


The best "replacement" for double hump heads are Sportsman-II's, and even those are nothing compared to modern chamber designs.

-- Joe

84firebird383

I've used both the camel hump and sportsman2's on an old 350. The sportsman2's were better than a "replacement"

Cruz'N Bruz'R

You show me a 400hp. Port matched L98 headed motor with a peanut cam. Numbers don't lie. Go bigger than a 383. Say 400ci. You still won't get 400hp from a mild cam and port matched L98 heads.

Teal91rs

Am i the only one who cought this "Valve Cover Mounting Style Centerbolt "? Scroll down thought the info and that is listed and ill tell you now no doublehumps ive ever seen had centerbolt valvecovers! *edit* after seeing the picture they are perimiter style bolts so it must be a typo

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Search for 113 heads.

They do about 350hp stock, and with some minor porting will flow to 400+ hp with no problems.

Plus they're aluminum.

But whatever. Believe what you want.

-- Joe

ljnowell

Typically this turned into another of the "double humps suck" arguments. This thread isnt about what heads are better, its about summit remaking a famous old head.

Unless anyone has any info to offer about the heads in question (i.e. flowcharts of the summit head, know someone that bought them, heard something about them) dont bother wasting space here.

Cruz'N Bruz'R

when did L98 vettes ever make 350hp?

ditchbangr

iTrader: (1)

double post

ditchbangr

iTrader: (1)

Last I heard the ZZ4 crate engine makes 350+ horse. They use the L98 aluminum heads.

ljnowell

I havent seen any crate engines running L98 heads. All of them I see are running the vortec or GM Fastburn heads. Otherwise its an aftermarket.

ditchbangr

iTrader: (1)

http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...Search&Ntt=zz4

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Haha. Never heard of the ZZ4? Well pop open your summit catalog, and turn to page 111. Bottom, right hand cornor.

And we misquoted. It's not 350hp, its 355hp. haha


http://www.summitracing.com/catalogs...nfeb/111f.html

-- Joe

ljnowell

I have heard of the zz4 many times, I never noticed it was running L98 heads though.

Of course, I am still smarter than you, because I noticed this thread wasnt about L98 heads. haha.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

The thread was about old crappy heads. I found it my duty to point out that they are crappy, and you should NOT buy them. Especially, when you can buy much better heads from summit for around the same price.

-- Joe

ljnowell

I dont see anyone here that needs talked out of buying them

No one here needs talked out of buying anything, though we are all grateful for your intentions . This thread isnt about what is better than these heads, this thread is about these heads. See post below

hiphop

Sorry to bring this back from the dead. I bought a set of the summit vortec style heads for my bracket race car. I was very surprised to open up the box and see the "IRON EAGLE" emblem staring me in the face. I got a set of Dart IRON EAGLE heads for a lil over $650. These heads come with a nice 3 angle valve job. Larger springs with which there is more room for even bigger springs. In my opinion, for the price, these are some great heads.

I didnt save up my money for any better ones because I am in college full time (7am-4:30pm everyday) and I saved up for a month and a half to get these heads. Its all I could afford before race season came around. Love the heads.

HIP HOP

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

Very interresting! I've had my eye on these Summit heads but haven't pulled the trigger yet. I had just assumed that they were the Pro Topline vortec castings.

Can those heads accept the old style valve covers, or are they centerbolt only?

hiphop

Unfortunately no, they do not accept anything BUT centerbolt valve covers. I had my old ones lying around that I sand blasted and painted an aluminum high heat color. I have a roller 350 motor with keith black flat tops, an lt1 cam, edelbrock rpm air gap manifold, holley 750 dp, tci 3000 stall, custom built th350, stock rearend with a spool (track only car) with stock 3.42 gear. Went 7.58 (1/8). Shifting around 6300rpm.

bluegrassz

iTrader: (3)

How is the weight of your car? That should be good for high 11's in the 1/4.

hiphop

I dont know exact weight of car, dont have any scales around. With the motor in, me and another guy can stand in front of the engine and pull the wheels of the ground by holding on the the sway bar. complete interior is gutted, 8 point roll bar, plastic summit racing seat, aluminum dash, stripped firewall and engine compartment of evrything not neccasary. 5 gallon fuel cell, battery in the back, no inner wheel wells (plastic part) no headliner. LOL lemme shorten this up some, everything but the crash bumpers and paint have been stripped. Even all the gunk on the seams. I know she has a lil more in her thank that time, but Im being a lil pu**y on my launch trying not to break my rearend, I wanna have a lil fun in it before I have to work on it again.

Sorry for the long post, HIP HOP

Red92TA

Now, lets get back to the Summit heads again. The ones that say they are an "all-new version of the classic cast iron head" which "outflows and outperforms the originals". For some of us that do not want to go the Vortec route (wish I could keep my TPI) with out spending tons of cash...well, I think this would be a great low budget head. Yes a nice set of aluminum L98 heads would be great to have...but finding them in a condition that does not need to be rebuilt is almost impossible...unless you want to spend the same amount that a new set of Trick Flows would run! So, the question is back to....who has tried these heads, and are they any good. The question is NOT how are double hump heads, or why new style heads are better than old style heads.

Chris89GTA

iTrader: (2)

Yeah Summit owns TFS from what I understand. I have the TFS heads on my TA and absolutely love them. Great head. Flow numbers were dead on advertised and everything worked out great on them. I highly advise those heads. Added bonus over AFRs is that you don't have to wait 2 months to get them!!!

hiphop

I am running the new summit "vortec" head on my race car, and I would highly recomend the new heads. I dont know of anyone that has tried the new style double humps that summit is selling but I do know that the pair of heads that I recieved after ordering them were of very good quality.